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What is the main reason so many do not believe in a Creator...and choose evolution?

 
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2020 06:23 AM
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Re: What is the main reason so many do not believe in a Creator...and choose evolution?
"What is the main reason so many do not believe in a Creator...and choose evolution?"

OP, I will answer you to the best of my ability.

First, you're asking two different questions. There are many that believe in God and evolution. This website was made by Christians who accept the scientific consensus regarding the age of the Earth, and evolution: [link to biologos.org (secure)]

Now, the main reason people don't believe in a 'Creator' is because they simply weren't raised to do so, and/or they haven't seen sufficient evidence for one.

As for why people choose evolution... choose is a strange word to use. I don't choose to believe in germs, or gravity, I am convinced of them by evidence. People are convinced of evolution because there is a lot of evidence for it. I can't stress that enough, the evidence is overwhelming, and every test that our best minds can come up with points to evolution theory being correct.

Creationists will tell you that it's because we want to live in sin or some such personal slander, but the simple answer is evidence.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78292982


Tell us what is your best evidence for evolution.

I'm all ears.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77762685


You've already been given the best evidence evolution could hope for. Endogenous Retroviruses. Since you haven't bothered to research it, you do not want to accept evolution no matter what.
Anonymous Coward
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02/09/2020 07:26 PM
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Re: What is the main reason so many do not believe in a Creator...and choose evolution?
"What is the main reason so many do not believe in a Creator...and choose evolution?"

OP, I will answer you to the best of my ability.

First, you're asking two different questions. There are many that believe in God and evolution. This website was made by Christians who accept the scientific consensus regarding the age of the Earth, and evolution: [link to biologos.org (secure)]

Now, the main reason people don't believe in a 'Creator' is because they simply weren't raised to do so, and/or they haven't seen sufficient evidence for one.

As for why people choose evolution... choose is a strange word to use. I don't choose to believe in germs, or gravity, I am convinced of them by evidence. People are convinced of evolution because there is a lot of evidence for it. I can't stress that enough, the evidence is overwhelming, and every test that our best minds can come up with points to evolution theory being correct.

Creationists will tell you that it's because we want to live in sin or some such personal slander, but the simple answer is evidence.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78292982


Tell us what is your best evidence for evolution.

I'm all ears.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77762685


You've already been given the best evidence evolution could hope for. Endogenous Retroviruses. Since you haven't bothered to research it, you do not want to accept evolution no matter what.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78455911



Yes yes nanotech factories as evidence for a non existing process, gotcha.

Dna proves evolution.

Dna disproves design.

I remember now, we've been there before.

Basically you explain away how all animals came about after countless transitions and your best evidence for that neverending process is pointing towards a nanomachine under a microscope.

And in half a day some guy will be shouting god created ervs and the magicall and epic process of evolution, hooray.

5a
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02/09/2020 07:46 PM
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Re: What is the main reason so many do not believe in a Creator...and choose evolution?
Why do you lie and deceive, that would be a sin. To judge others and say because they believe in evolution which is just saying species adapts, they do not believe in a higher source, come on man think! Most of my colleques, myself included believe in a higher source, call it what you will, and yet we taught evolution. So son, get a life and try not recruiting for you perverted form of religion by making up lies, or perhaps you are just too dense to see the truth of life.
Anonymous Coward
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02/11/2020 09:17 AM
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Re: What is the main reason so many do not believe in a Creator...and choose evolution?
"What is the main reason so many do not believe in a Creator...and choose evolution?"

OP, I will answer you to the best of my ability.

First, you're asking two different questions. There are many that believe in God and evolution. This website was made by Christians who accept the scientific consensus regarding the age of the Earth, and evolution: [link to biologos.org (secure)]

Now, the main reason people don't believe in a 'Creator' is because they simply weren't raised to do so, and/or they haven't seen sufficient evidence for one.

As for why people choose evolution... choose is a strange word to use. I don't choose to believe in germs, or gravity, I am convinced of them by evidence. People are convinced of evolution because there is a lot of evidence for it. I can't stress that enough, the evidence is overwhelming, and every test that our best minds can come up with points to evolution theory being correct.

Creationists will tell you that it's because we want to live in sin or some such personal slander, but the simple answer is evidence.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78292982


Tell us what is your best evidence for evolution.

I'm all ears.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77762685


You've already been given the best evidence evolution could hope for. Endogenous Retroviruses. Since you haven't bothered to research it, you do not want to accept evolution no matter what.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78455911



Yes yes nanotech factories as evidence for a non existing process, gotcha.

Dna proves evolution.

Dna disproves design.

I remember now, we've been there before.

Basically you explain away how all animals came about after countless transitions and your best evidence for that neverending process is pointing towards a nanomachine under a microscope.

And in half a day some guy will be shouting god created ervs and the magicall and epic process of evolution, hooray.

5a
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77762685


Endogenous Retroviruses infect somatic cells normally. But when they infect a germline cell and the infected host reproduces, the ERV will be in that exact same position in the offspring. And if that offspring reproduces, the ERV will still be in that same position in all of its descendants ongoing forever. Thats why ERVs are proof for evolution. Chimps share 99.99999% of their Endogenous Retrovirus insertions with humans. Gorillas with a little bit less shared with humans. Orangutans with even less. ERVs have LTRs on both sides of the ERV. LTRs occur when a retrovirus inserts into the host.

Retroviral proviruses typically encode three principal coding domains (gag, pol, and env), flanked at either side by long terminal repeat (LTR) sequences, which are identical at the time of integration. However, many ERV loci are comprised of “solo LTRs,” generated when recombination between the 5’ and 3’ LTRs deletes internal coding sequences
 Quoting:



The 2 LTRs in each ERV are identical at the time of insertion. Yet they aren't identical due to mutations occurring independently in each individual LTR in each ERV, over time. They can use these differences to track ancestry of populations and species. Its not some "theory" or "hypothesis" that is waiting for evidence. They have seen it happen in real time in real life. They have even resurrected ERVs.
Anonymous Coward
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02/13/2020 06:54 PM
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Re: What is the main reason so many do not believe in a Creator...and choose evolution?
...


Tell us what is your best evidence for evolution.

I'm all ears.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77762685


You've already been given the best evidence evolution could hope for. Endogenous Retroviruses. Since you haven't bothered to research it, you do not want to accept evolution no matter what.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78455911



Yes yes nanotech factories as evidence for a non existing process, gotcha.

Dna proves evolution.

Dna disproves design.

I remember now, we've been there before.

Basically you explain away how all animals came about after countless transitions and your best evidence for that neverending process is pointing towards a nanomachine under a microscope.

And in half a day some guy will be shouting god created ervs and the magicall and epic process of evolution, hooray.

5a
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77762685


Endogenous Retroviruses infect somatic cells normally. But when they infect a germline cell and the infected host reproduces, the ERV will be in that exact same position in the offspring. And if that offspring reproduces, the ERV will still be in that same position in all of its descendants ongoing forever. Thats why ERVs are proof for evolution. Chimps share 99.99999% of their Endogenous Retrovirus insertions with humans. Gorillas with a little bit less shared with humans. Orangutans with even less. ERVs have LTRs on both sides of the ERV. LTRs occur when a retrovirus inserts into the host.

Retroviral proviruses typically encode three principal coding domains (gag, pol, and env), flanked at either side by long terminal repeat (LTR) sequences, which are identical at the time of integration. However, many ERV loci are comprised of “solo LTRs,” generated when recombination between the 5’ and 3’ LTRs deletes internal coding sequences
 Quoting:



The 2 LTRs in each ERV are identical at the time of insertion. Yet they aren't identical due to mutations occurring independently in each individual LTR in each ERV, over time. They can use these differences to track ancestry of populations and species. Its not some "theory" or "hypothesis" that is waiting for evidence. They have seen it happen in real time in real life. They have even resurrected ERVs.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70545130


I see.

More explaining of the machinery at work, but why?
chauchat

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02/13/2020 09:57 PM

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Re: What is the main reason so many do not believe in a Creator...and choose evolution?
evolutionary biologist Richard Sternberg asked about his take on the ERV question. He writes,

Now, the story that these seemingly defunct retroviruses provide compelling evidence for common descent on the one hand, and support for the notion of non-designed junk on the other, is based on an interpretation that is almost thirty years old and contradicted by recent data.
For one thing, ERVs are markedly taxon-specific and they all have non-random chromosomal distributions.
The mouse and rat have different ERV families and yet many of them occupy similar genomic sites.
This is explained by the insertion machineries having preferences for specific DNA targets or chromatin profiles.
So while one can find some retroviral sequences occupying a position shared between by two species, it cannot be ruled out that such similarity is due to constraints on integration.
In yeast, for example, the ERV Ty repeatedly inserts into the promoters of transfer RNA genes.
And human and mouse “jumping genes” such as Alu and B1/B2, respectively, are not homologous and yet they have the same linear pattern of placement.
Such genomic profiles look like inherited accidents from afar but close inspection reveals that they are independent events. Appearances can be deceiving.

[…]

I could continue in this vein for some time. My point is that a tenebrific spin has been given to ERVs by the Darwinians.
The spin works only as long as one superficially reviews old literature.
But it dissipates as soon as one delves into the wealth of data that we now have available to us.
Anonymous Coward
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02/14/2020 11:31 PM
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Re: What is the main reason so many do not believe in a Creator...and choose evolution?
...


You've already been given the best evidence evolution could hope for. Endogenous Retroviruses. Since you haven't bothered to research it, you do not want to accept evolution no matter what.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78455911



Yes yes nanotech factories as evidence for a non existing process, gotcha.

Dna proves evolution.

Dna disproves design.

I remember now, we've been there before.

Basically you explain away how all animals came about after countless transitions and your best evidence for that neverending process is pointing towards a nanomachine under a microscope.

And in half a day some guy will be shouting god created ervs and the magicall and epic process of evolution, hooray.

5a
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77762685


Endogenous Retroviruses infect somatic cells normally. But when they infect a germline cell and the infected host reproduces, the ERV will be in that exact same position in the offspring. And if that offspring reproduces, the ERV will still be in that same position in all of its descendants ongoing forever. Thats why ERVs are proof for evolution. Chimps share 99.99999% of their Endogenous Retrovirus insertions with humans. Gorillas with a little bit less shared with humans. Orangutans with even less. ERVs have LTRs on both sides of the ERV. LTRs occur when a retrovirus inserts into the host.

Retroviral proviruses typically encode three principal coding domains (gag, pol, and env), flanked at either side by long terminal repeat (LTR) sequences, which are identical at the time of integration. However, many ERV loci are comprised of “solo LTRs,” generated when recombination between the 5’ and 3’ LTRs deletes internal coding sequences
 Quoting:



The 2 LTRs in each ERV are identical at the time of insertion. Yet they aren't identical due to mutations occurring independently in each individual LTR in each ERV, over time. They can use these differences to track ancestry of populations and species. Its not some "theory" or "hypothesis" that is waiting for evidence. They have seen it happen in real time in real life. They have even resurrected ERVs.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70545130


I see.

More explaining of the machinery at work, but why?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77762685


Just because you're too stupid to understand the evidence, that doesn't mean it doesn't count.

This is the same principle we use for paternity tests. You can't just hand wave it away by calling it 'nano machinery.'
Anonymous Coward
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02/15/2020 12:04 AM
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Re: What is the main reason so many do not believe in a Creator...and choose evolution?
The truly wise belief in both.
Anonymous Coward
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02/15/2020 12:32 AM
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Re: What is the main reason so many do not believe in a Creator...and choose evolution?
The truly wise belief in both.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76258093


A creator programmed this environment. The programming involves evolution - the mixing, matching, filtering, etc., of basic codes.

The creator is not perfect. The creator made many mistakes in the code and/or allowed interferences (viruses) to enter the system (environment).

There might be more than one creator involved in this particular design.
Anonymous Coward
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02/15/2020 12:45 AM
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Re: What is the main reason so many do not believe in a Creator...and choose evolution?
Nope. There is NOT A SHRED of evidence for "intelligent design". The FACT is, evolution is real, not something to be believed in. Reasonable people don't "believe" in evolution, we simply understand it.

Your argument is a very well known one and is part of the process for becoming a reasonable person. Its called "personal incredulity".
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingUAgain


One of the MOST STUPID posts I have EVER seen on GLP.

YOU are truly IGNORANT.
Anonymous Coward
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02/15/2020 12:49 AM
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Re: What is the main reason so many do not believe in a Creator...and choose evolution?
Who cares? Leave people alone and let them believe what they want. Beliefs do not change reality.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77999315


Belief itself doesn't. Unfortunately beliefs change people's behavior and this can severely change reality for all others.
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingUAgain


Your "Godless" reality will be changing in the future.

Good luck with that.

verysad

lflashlflashlflash
...explosion...............abomb...............explosion
Anonymous Coward
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02/15/2020 01:38 AM
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Re: What is the main reason so many do not believe in a Creator...and choose evolution?
it all comes down to one word:

accountability
 Quoting: Red John


Try evidence.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78224431


with evo-tards their "belief" is that they're not accountable to anyone, or anything and
we're all just one big accident so anything goes and do as you wish, survival of the fittest etc.

except
how is it that even evo-tards for the most part are offended by pedos, and Ted Bundy type rapist murderers,
they'll be pissed off if someone breaks in to their homes and robs them, sticks a gun or knife in their face and mugs them,
...?

so there's some of that "evidence" that humans have the knowledge of good and evil, and that there is & will be accountability
 Quoting: Red John


wtfdid
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingUAgain


He is talking about a foundation for moral truth ..if everything is random , and this is no god, than there is no foundation for absolute moral truth, other than a contract for social order that helps the species survive ...in that sense you cannot truly say something is wrong, only that it hinders the equilibrium of society...Sam Harris attempted to create a moral foundation based on a landscape of suffering, however both ontologically and and in an epistemological sense it is rather inadequate. I mean cmon this is a well hashed out ethical debate ....was it really that difficult to read between the lines there ??
Anonymous Coward
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02/15/2020 01:51 AM
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Re: What is the main reason so many do not believe in a Creator...and choose evolution?
...


I see.

So god created the universe but nothing else.

Like a human filling a fishtank with water and then wait for the fish to magically appear/evolve/whatever, because 'life finds a way'.

starwars

[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]

Clearly this man has no clue as well.

Thank notgod for your wisdom and their stupidity.

So to be clear, did god start evolution or not? Or only the universe and then wait?

Cheers
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77762685


You're comparing an entire universe, with a tank of water, which is stupid. A tank of water isn't full of black holes, and colossal nuclear reactors that condense matter into heavy elements.

Think about it, if God is omniscient, then he predetermined everything that would happen at the moment of creating the universe.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78417268


Well why not, a fish tank is less complex.

I don't think bringing in biological or cosmological factories is helping your case for evotardism to be a thing. Or let alone it being a god created evolution thing.

Again, so god created the universe and thats it, or also started the process of evolution, a bit like the opening scene of Prometheus?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77762685


Yes, a fish tank is less complex... that means it has LESS potential configurations and possibilities.
Despite what you think, the presence of 'cosmological and biological factories' does mean that there are far greater possibilities that can emerge as a result of the interaction of matter and energy within the system.

Have you ever heard of the game of life? Here it is:


This very simple system is capable of spontaneously forming complex structures, capable of movement, and self replication. If such a basic system can produce these things, imagine what the universe can produce given billions of years.

"Again, so god created the universe and thats it, or also started the process of evolution, a bit like the opening scene of Prometheus?"

You're still not getting it. I'm not talking about aliens coming to Earth and seeding life, I'm talking about a God that created the universe itself. If God is all knowing, and created the laws of nature/physics, then it logically follows that he predetermined everything that would occur. Get it?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78417268

Sorry but hold on
...you are only embarssing determinism here and completely ignoring quantum interactions....If there is an all powerful god why couldn't it create a universe that could behave randomly...also even if this God could use superpowers to preocognate what would occur doesn't logically follow that an all powerful god could choose to not use this power ?
Victor Vectors

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02/15/2020 02:02 AM
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Re: What is the main reason so many do not believe in a Creator...and choose evolution?
It is hard for many to believe paintings in a museum actually had a Painter, sculptures actually had a Sculptor. No, many believe those art objects happened naturally via evolution.

Something actually greater than mankind, God, aka Creator?

Crazy!

So the highly educated think, yet the simple and blessed know otherwise.

Last Edited by Victor Vectors on 02/15/2020 02:04 AM
Anonymous Coward
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02/15/2020 02:17 AM
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Re: What is the main reason so many do not believe in a Creator...and choose evolution?
Life is basically suffering until the day of death. And it's the same for everyone, from the ant to the elephant. From the flower to the virus, we all walk to death fighting against suffering.
There is no one "taking care" of this world, no one will save you from anything. You are flowing in an infinite sea of chaos and suffering.
Vikini

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02/15/2020 02:44 AM

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Re: What is the main reason so many do not believe in a Creator...and choose evolution?
Here's some my notes trying to figure out why genetics of Europeans are unique in comparison to rest of the world. Related to Atlantis myths, Fallen Angels, Biblical Flood.

What if Bible is not telling whole story(censored) and Darwin theory is made up half-truth. Best censorship and best lie is half-truth because humans tend to always sense when they are lied to and truth always came up. But half truth creates chaos and division. What if Fallen Angels who walked in flesh on Earth with heavenly knowledge used genetic mutations to change peaceful, social, non predator humans into predator like intelligent hybrids corrupted with knowledge which later created legendary Atlantis destroyed among other things by cataclysm send by God described in the Bible? People in dark ages had no idea about genetics but Fallen Angels surely had.

Few short articles found in google mention all humans had brown eye color and other colors came to be after mutations during ice age 10 000 years ago.

Complete lack of results to the thread which for sure undergone detailed scientific research smells as deliberate censorship. As all controversial topic this one makes google to flood with bullshit.

Mutations 10000 years ago during period legends describe as time of fall of Atlantis located in Arctic Ocean? With mountain ranges below ocean believed to be Riphean mountains - gateway to Atlantis.

How so discovery pseudo-scientists looked for Atlantis everywhere with poor results and idiotic conclusions when Arctic sea and regions of North pole are in control of Royal Navy of UK where Great Britain is a country with most of green, blue, grey, hazel and variants of those eye colors.

How so that every source speaks of eye colors other than brown have exclusively European origin. With most of those focused in UK and Scandinavia. Locations which are the closest to Arctic sea - Location of Atlantis.

Migration of people of Atlantis after the flood and global cataclysm 10 000 years ago is predicable. They all moved south towards the land. Some landed in today Scotland and the mythical stories of green eyed Celts
emerged later. Blue eyed Scandinavians and their Norse myths and knowledge. Then you have same correlations in Egypt and blue eyed pharaoh gods. With Egyptian blue makeup trying to portrait blue eyed person. Then same culture, myths with just different names moved to Ancient Rome and met with their Celtic, Gaelic, Nordic cousins in Germany.

Taking a Darwin theory as part truth in relation to creationism for example that human araised from monkey. Most monkeys have brown eyes and are social, non predator, happy jumpy animals. God created man from dirt of the earth and made man in "his image" which i guess may be related to intellect required to be Shepard of all live on Earth. And Man was good. Man created by God probably was similar in living style to monkeys but wasn't a monkey at all. Social, tribal, vegetarian, cooperating, playful, reasonable.

What animals tend to have blue eyes the most? Wolfs? or anybody know because these information about which eye color ancestrally belongs with particular animals are fully censored to be public because official backstage research for sure has been done.

Green eyes comes from truly yellow eyes mixed with blue eyes. Yellow yes tend to be feline. Cat eyes. Another predator eyes mixed with blue eyes being originally predator eyes. What legends circles around about green eyes?

The mutations of ice age in light of Darwin theory tend to be deliberate or not mutations to create predator like species of humans. Blue eyed wolf like conquerors. Green eyed wolf+cat like predators. While man created from dirt by God had brown eyes( like over 70% of world population) and dark skin?

Establishing Ancient Rome?

Legend of twin brothers Romulus and Remus raised by a wolf. Blue being color of Rome's royal guard. Emperor watchers? Blue eyes? Human predators? Wolf's blood? Witches and their cats? Cat being most holy animal in Ancient Egypt?

Are that genetic modifications to create predator like humans and mix those with peaceful original human race via wars and conquest?
Anonymous Coward
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02/15/2020 06:27 AM
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Re: What is the main reason so many do not believe in a Creator...and choose evolution?
Nope. There is NOT A SHRED of evidence for "intelligent design". The FACT is, evolution is real, not something to be believed in. Reasonable people don't "believe" in evolution, we simply understand it.

Your argument is a very well known one and is part of the process for becoming a reasonable person. Its called "personal incredulity".
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingUAgain


One of the MOST STUPID posts I have EVER seen on GLP.

YOU are truly IGNORANT.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78478356


He's got loads of messages on GLP, you'll have a blast.

And yes he is ignorant. I think he said he's a failed christian and recently became an atheist/evotard.

He does not yet realise he has a problem with his personal credulity.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: What is the main reason so many do not believe in a Creator...and choose evolution?
...


You're comparing an entire universe, with a tank of water, which is stupid. A tank of water isn't full of black holes, and colossal nuclear reactors that condense matter into heavy elements.

Think about it, if God is omniscient, then he predetermined everything that would happen at the moment of creating the universe.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78417268


Well why not, a fish tank is less complex.

I don't think bringing in biological or cosmological factories is helping your case for evotardism to be a thing. Or let alone it being a god created evolution thing.

Again, so god created the universe and thats it, or also started the process of evolution, a bit like the opening scene of Prometheus?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77762685


Yes, a fish tank is less complex... that means it has LESS potential configurations and possibilities.
Despite what you think, the presence of 'cosmological and biological factories' does mean that there are far greater possibilities that can emerge as a result of the interaction of matter and energy within the system.

Have you ever heard of the game of life? Here it is:


This very simple system is capable of spontaneously forming complex structures, capable of movement, and self replication. If such a basic system can produce these things, imagine what the universe can produce given billions of years.

"Again, so god created the universe and thats it, or also started the process of evolution, a bit like the opening scene of Prometheus?"

You're still not getting it. I'm not talking about aliens coming to Earth and seeding life, I'm talking about a God that created the universe itself. If God is all knowing, and created the laws of nature/physics, then it logically follows that he predetermined everything that would occur. Get it?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78417268

Sorry but hold on
...you are only embarssing determinism here and completely ignoring quantum interactions....If there is an all powerful god why couldn't it create a universe that could behave randomly...also even if this God could use superpowers to preocognate what would occur doesn't logically follow that an all powerful god could choose to not use this power ?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76784120


Why don't we design randomly? Oh wait.
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Re: What is the main reason so many do not believe in a Creator...and choose evolution?
Can it be said fairly that those who believe in evolution are "spiritual orphans"...with no Heavenly Father, and no hope for the future on this earth?
 Quoting: CelestialMaiden


Ego.
Anonymous Coward
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02/15/2020 07:37 AM
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Re: What is the main reason so many do not believe in a Creator...and choose evolution?
God said he was hiding himself from the earth because even when the people see him and his miracles they still sinned. It does state that the time will come when he will reappear in an instant and we will shit bricks.

Oh. did I mention Jesus isn't real and the new testament was meant to turn people from the law?

Ask the one true creator of heaven and earth to show you his power and be willing to follow his commands/laws and watch how your life changes. no Jesus no churches no mosque no preachers no lightworkers or guides, go right to the source, no man can intercede and show you or tell you how to find God. Most importantly find his ORIGINAL name, its not jesus, he despises this.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: What is the main reason so many do not believe in a Creator...and choose evolution?
...


Well why not, a fish tank is less complex.

I don't think bringing in biological or cosmological factories is helping your case for evotardism to be a thing. Or let alone it being a god created evolution thing.

Again, so god created the universe and thats it, or also started the process of evolution, a bit like the opening scene of Prometheus?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77762685


Yes, a fish tank is less complex... that means it has LESS potential configurations and possibilities.
Despite what you think, the presence of 'cosmological and biological factories' does mean that there are far greater possibilities that can emerge as a result of the interaction of matter and energy within the system.

Have you ever heard of the game of life? Here it is:


This very simple system is capable of spontaneously forming complex structures, capable of movement, and self replication. If such a basic system can produce these things, imagine what the universe can produce given billions of years.

"Again, so god created the universe and thats it, or also started the process of evolution, a bit like the opening scene of Prometheus?"

You're still not getting it. I'm not talking about aliens coming to Earth and seeding life, I'm talking about a God that created the universe itself. If God is all knowing, and created the laws of nature/physics, then it logically follows that he predetermined everything that would occur. Get it?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78417268

Sorry but hold on
...you are only embarssing determinism here and completely ignoring quantum interactions....If there is an all powerful god why couldn't it create a universe that could behave randomly...also even if this God could use superpowers to preocognate what would occur doesn't logically follow that an all powerful god could choose to not use this power ?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76784120


Why don't we design randomly? Oh wait.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77762685



The prophecy states he will come back to choose a few select to be given his spirit and be perfected. All prophesied before the jesus story. Earth is a testing ground.
Anonymous Coward
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02/15/2020 07:40 AM
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Re: What is the main reason so many do not believe in a Creator...and choose evolution?
Because people have been brainwashed to believe people wearing a white coat are telling the truth and people wearing black graduation gowns have no idea.
Anonymous Coward
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02/15/2020 07:45 AM
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Re: What is the main reason so many do not believe in a Creator...and choose evolution?
...


Not sure what you mean, but....the abundance of life all around the earth is and always has been real, and evidence of intelligent design, no?
 Quoting: CelestialMaiden


Nope. There is NOT A SHRED of evidence for "intelligent design". The FACT is, evolution is real, not something to be believed in. Reasonable people don't "believe" in evolution, we simply understand it.

Your argument is a very well known one and is part of the process for becoming a reasonable person. Its called "personal incredulity".
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingUAgain


[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]


One cannot imagine the living cell existing without intelligent design
 Quoting: CelestialMaiden


Correction: YOU don't understand it. Same argument as OP, you opt for personal incredulity.
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingUAgain


Project much
Anonymous Coward
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02/15/2020 07:46 AM
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Re: What is the main reason so many do not believe in a Creator...and choose evolution?
Fear of judgement.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78343423


BS.
Fear is the fuel of most religions.
That's why they invented "sin" in the first place.
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02/15/2020 07:51 AM
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Re: What is the main reason so many do not believe in a Creator...and choose evolution?
Nope. There is NOT A SHRED of evidence for "intelligent design". The FACT is, evolution is real, not something to be believed in. Reasonable people don't "believe" in evolution, we simply understand it.

Your argument is a very well known one and is part of the process for becoming a reasonable person. Its called "personal incredulity".
 Quoting: MaybeTrollingUAgain


One of the MOST STUPID posts I have EVER seen on GLP.

YOU are truly IGNORANT.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78478356


So there's nothing intelligent in the human body or how nature was designed?

I'd like to see you come up with a human body.
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Re: What is the main reason so many do not believe in a Creator...and choose evolution?
Extraterrestrials seeded life on earth. The missing link is Biogenetic engineering by ET genetic engineers.
Anonymous Coward
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02/15/2020 08:33 AM
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Re: What is the main reason so many do not believe in a Creator...and choose evolution?
...


You've already been given the best evidence evolution could hope for. Endogenous Retroviruses. Since you haven't bothered to research it, you do not want to accept evolution no matter what.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78455911



Yes yes nanotech factories as evidence for a non existing process, gotcha.

Dna proves evolution.

Dna disproves design.

I remember now, we've been there before.

Basically you explain away how all animals came about after countless transitions and your best evidence for that neverending process is pointing towards a nanomachine under a microscope.

And in half a day some guy will be shouting god created ervs and the magicall and epic process of evolution, hooray.

5a
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77762685


Endogenous Retroviruses infect somatic cells normally. But when they infect a germline cell and the infected host reproduces, the ERV will be in that exact same position in the offspring. And if that offspring reproduces, the ERV will still be in that same position in all of its descendants ongoing forever. Thats why ERVs are proof for evolution. Chimps share 99.99999% of their Endogenous Retrovirus insertions with humans. Gorillas with a little bit less shared with humans. Orangutans with even less. ERVs have LTRs on both sides of the ERV. LTRs occur when a retrovirus inserts into the host.

Retroviral proviruses typically encode three principal coding domains (gag, pol, and env), flanked at either side by long terminal repeat (LTR) sequences, which are identical at the time of integration. However, many ERV loci are comprised of “solo LTRs,” generated when recombination between the 5’ and 3’ LTRs deletes internal coding sequences
 Quoting:



The 2 LTRs in each ERV are identical at the time of insertion. Yet they aren't identical due to mutations occurring independently in each individual LTR in each ERV, over time. They can use these differences to track ancestry of populations and species. Its not some "theory" or "hypothesis" that is waiting for evidence. They have seen it happen in real time in real life. They have even resurrected ERVs.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70545130


I see.

More explaining of the machinery at work, but why?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77762685


we share 99.9% of them with chimps. With the same mutations. LTRs show they are a biological origin, not god. thats why.
Anonymous Coward
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02/15/2020 09:04 AM
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Re: What is the main reason so many do not believe in a Creator...and choose evolution?
evolutionary biologist Richard Sternberg asked about his take on the ERV question. He writes,

Now, the story that these seemingly defunct retroviruses provide compelling evidence for common descent on the one hand, and support for the notion of non-designed junk on the other, is based on an interpretation that is almost thirty years old and contradicted by recent data.
For one thing, ERVs are markedly taxon-specific and they all have non-random chromosomal distributions.
The mouse and rat have different ERV families and yet many of them occupy similar genomic sites.
This is explained by the insertion machineries having preferences for specific DNA targets or chromatin profiles.
So while one can find some retroviral sequences occupying a position shared between by two species, it cannot be ruled out that such similarity is due to constraints on integration.
In yeast, for example, the ERV Ty repeatedly inserts into the promoters of transfer RNA genes.
And human and mouse “jumping genes” such as Alu and B1/B2, respectively, are not homologous and yet they have the same linear pattern of placement.
Such genomic profiles look like inherited accidents from afar but close inspection reveals that they are independent events. Appearances can be deceiving.

[…]

I could continue in this vein for some time. My point is that a tenebrific spin has been given to ERVs by the Darwinians.
The spin works only as long as one superficially reviews old literature.
But it dissipates as soon as one delves into the wealth of data that we now have available to us.

 Quoting: chauchat


Only orthologous ERVs are a part of this evidence for evolution. "similar" is not orthologous, they have nothing to do with the evidence.

Target-site preference is not locus specific. Its still random. This also ignores that they share the same mutations, and the same LTR mutations. The 2 LTRs are completely identical at insertion in the same ERV. The same mutations in LTRs in multiple species show they came from a single insertion event in a common ancestor of those species.

If its not orthologous its not part of the evidence. 99.9% of our ERVs with chimps are orthologous. Its not talking about the ones that are not orthologous. There are orthologous ERVs shared with all humans, chimps, gorillas, orangutans, gibbons, old world monkeys. Less than 100 ERVs are human specific, chimps have 300 that are chimp specific. The 99.9% of the other ERVs are orthologous in humans and chimps.
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Re: What is the main reason so many do not believe in a Creator...and choose evolution?
Fossils....they're called fossils....God may be involved...but "evolution" is definitely a "thing".
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02/15/2020 01:59 PM
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Re: What is the main reason so many do not believe in a Creator...and choose evolution?
...



Yes yes nanotech factories as evidence for a non existing process, gotcha.

Dna proves evolution.

Dna disproves design.

I remember now, we've been there before.

Basically you explain away how all animals came about after countless transitions and your best evidence for that neverending process is pointing towards a nanomachine under a microscope.

And in half a day some guy will be shouting god created ervs and the magicall and epic process of evolution, hooray.

5a
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77762685


Endogenous Retroviruses infect somatic cells normally. But when they infect a germline cell and the infected host reproduces, the ERV will be in that exact same position in the offspring. And if that offspring reproduces, the ERV will still be in that same position in all of its descendants ongoing forever. Thats why ERVs are proof for evolution. Chimps share 99.99999% of their Endogenous Retrovirus insertions with humans. Gorillas with a little bit less shared with humans. Orangutans with even less. ERVs have LTRs on both sides of the ERV. LTRs occur when a retrovirus inserts into the host.

Retroviral proviruses typically encode three principal coding domains (gag, pol, and env), flanked at either side by long terminal repeat (LTR) sequences, which are identical at the time of integration. However, many ERV loci are comprised of “solo LTRs,” generated when recombination between the 5’ and 3’ LTRs deletes internal coding sequences
 Quoting:



The 2 LTRs in each ERV are identical at the time of insertion. Yet they aren't identical due to mutations occurring independently in each individual LTR in each ERV, over time. They can use these differences to track ancestry of populations and species. Its not some "theory" or "hypothesis" that is waiting for evidence. They have seen it happen in real time in real life. They have even resurrected ERVs.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70545130


I see.

More explaining of the machinery at work, but why?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77762685


we share 99.9% of them with chimps. With the same mutations. LTRs show they are a biological origin, not god. thats why.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 70545130


Not god.

For sure.

Again, you believe everything evolved over eons of time and your evidence for this is just mindblowing.
Evolution simply creates everything over time, lovely.

Thanks





GLP