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I am my highest authority, judge and guide. Who is yours?

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 78435837
France
02/04/2020 03:00 PM
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Re: I am my highest authority, judge and guide. Who is yours?
Let's imagine that:

You're left alone somewhere where there are only rocks and sandy dunes, all around you hundreds of miles of that same hostile landscape.

You become hungry and thirsty after one day of presence in that barren land. It's cold by night, hot by day.

Then at this point who is your highest authority ?

Your stomach or what you claim to be 'you' ?
Greatest I am  (OP)

User ID: 78435199
Canada
02/04/2020 03:07 PM
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Re: I am my highest authority, judge and guide. Who is yours?
So do you follow the teachings of Jesus (ie Jesus is your Guide and Judge) or no?

Your thread title says you are your own guide.
That is about the stupidest thing a person can do.
Your thread is a contradiction within itself.

But no wonder, if you are guiding yourself and you are your own highest authority, then it stands to reason you are stupid.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72530568


Such venom from a fellow Canadian. Oh well.

Do you want to chat or insult?

In case of a chat, let me try to answer you, at your level as you seem to be a young and ill bread person.

Do you know anything of the esoteric Jesus archetype in the bible? Not the Roman garbage Jesus but the good one.

Here is some of his teachings.

Here is the real way to salvation that Jesus taught.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Allan Watts explain those quotes in detail.

[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]

When Jesus reached heaven, he took the judgement seat and became, basically, an independent autonomous thinker.

He more or less retired Yahweh and now sits as our judge. Esoterically speaking. Jesus likely never existed.

If you think being your own guide is stupid, you are calling Jesus stupid. That is not too bright of you, especially since your reply was from a position of ignorance.

Thanks for your time, but don't come back unless you change your garbage attitude.

Regards
DL
 Quoting: Greatest I am


Again - so is Jesus your Guide, or yourself?
You are not Jesus, and even Jesus wasn't his own guide - he took time away alone in the wilderness to reconnect with his Father.
You are ignorant, despite your claim to intelligence.
You didn't answer my questions, probably because you know I'm right.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72530568


You forget our Chrestian roots, that were usurped by Christianity.

Modern Gnostic Christians name our god "I am", and yes, we do mean ourselves.

You are your controller. I am mine. You represent and present whatever mind picture you have of your God or ideal human, and so do I.

The name "I Am" you might see as meaning something like, --- I think I have grown up thanks to having forced my apotheosis through Gnosis and meditation.

In Gnostic Christianity, we follow the Christian tradition that Christians have forgotten that they are to do. That is, become brethren to Jesus.

That is why some say that the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian.

Here is the real way to salvation that Jesus taught.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Allan Watts explain those quotes in detail.

[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]

Be like Moses when asked who his god was by Pharaoh.

Put yourself in his shoes, stand tall and say, I am.

I have suffered my apotheosis and am a brethren to Christ.

Do you see the Christ answering to a higher force when he took the judgement seat?

No. Neither do I.

That is why, we and other esoteric religions put men above god.

That is the good news Jesus and Allen Watts speaks of.

Regards
DL
Funney
User ID: 78173283
Czechia
02/04/2020 03:12 PM
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Re: I am my highest authority, judge and guide. Who is yours?
judge? i do not judge
i am a theist
body feels like a drill down here
but souls are happy

hf
abduct
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 78435837
France
02/04/2020 03:14 PM
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Re: I am my highest authority, judge and guide. Who is yours?
gnostic[ nos-tik ]SHOW IPA
SEE SYNONYMS FOR gnostic ON THESAURUS.COM
adjective Also gnos·ti·cal.
pertaining to knowledge.
possessing knowledge, especially esoteric knowledge of spiritual matters.
(initial capital letter) pertaining to or characteristic of the Gnostics.
noun
(initial capital letter) a member of any of certain sects among the early Christians who claimed to have superior knowledge of spiritual matters, and explained the world as created by powers or agencies arising as emanations from the Godhead.
Judethz

User ID: 75895360
United Kingdom
02/04/2020 03:15 PM
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Re: I am my highest authority, judge and guide. Who is yours?
So do you follow the teachings of Jesus (ie Jesus is your Guide and Judge) or no?

Your thread title says you are your own guide.
That is about the stupidest thing a person can do.
Your thread is a contradiction within itself.

But no wonder, if you are guiding yourself and you are your own highest authority, then it stands to reason you are stupid.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72530568


Such venom from a fellow Canadian. Oh well.

 Quoting: Greatest I am


j15kitty This will not end well for you if you die in your sins.

j16
Greatest I am  (OP)

User ID: 78435199
Canada
02/04/2020 03:15 PM
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Re: I am my highest authority, judge and guide. Who is yours?
Let's imagine that:

You're left alone somewhere where there are only rocks and sandy dunes, all around you hundreds of miles of that same hostile landscape.

You become hungry and thirsty after one day of presence in that barren land. It's cold by night, hot by day.

Then at this point who is your highest authority ?

Your stomach or what you claim to be 'you' ?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78435837


I am not my stomach and neither am I just a dick when I get horny.

Are you?

Regards
DL
Greatest I am  (OP)

User ID: 78435199
Canada
02/04/2020 03:18 PM
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Re: I am my highest authority, judge and guide. Who is yours?
judge? i do not judge
i am a theist
body feels like a drill down here
but souls are happy

hf
abduct
 Quoting: Funney 78173283


Not a good one it seems, if a Christian, because your own bible tells you to judge all things and hold fast to the good.

Most Christians do not judge either and have settled for a genocidal and infanticidal god and a homophobic and misogynous religion, while calling all that evil goo,

I hope there is hope for you.

Regards
DL
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 78415571
United Kingdom
02/04/2020 03:19 PM
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Re: I am my highest authority, judge and guide. Who is yours?
I am my highest authority, judge and guide. Who is yours?

As a Gnostic Christian, I follow the esoteric teachings of Jesus.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

This fits perfectly with the bibles teachings that we are to judge all things and hold to the good.

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

This is a compulsion to be our own masters instead of just kowtowing to someone else’s opinions.

This is also why Christians used their inquisitions on us. Freedom of thought was not allowed by Christianity.

A concept and freedom that Christians now seem to promote.

Many Christians follow the teachings of, to us, a genocidal and infanticidal demiurge, Yahweh.

How Christians can see him as a good god is beyond me and Christians shy away from any apologetics as to why they think such a satanic god is good.

I see my judgements as more moral than that immoral demiurge and that is why I have rejected him for Jesus.

Do you follow 1 Thessalonians 5:21, or do you let someone else do your judging for you?

Regards
DL
 Quoting: Greatest I am


I am your I am...epiclol
syncro

User ID: 75835116
United States
02/04/2020 03:24 PM
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Re: I am my highest authority, judge and guide. Who is yours?
True in the sense that we are one with the source, but also there are aspects of grace, intellect and power so far beyond "me". Ultimately, that is "me", but not in a practical sense. On the other hand, one may have a sense of unity with it, and it is acting through them. But are we going to assume the power and wisdom of deity? So for me it is true only philosophically.

In other words, Mama, Dada!

Having experienced some of the power of dark forces in the subtle that left me without breath going unconscious in the fetal position, not to mention the physical vulnerability of this body were it not for grace and protection, or karma. Karma would be a relevant consideration. For if you don't have the karma to get hurt or killed, perhaps you could walk through a live fire battle field unscathed.
Greatest I am  (OP)

User ID: 78435199
Canada
02/04/2020 03:27 PM
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Re: I am my highest authority, judge and guide. Who is yours?
gnostic[ nos-tik ]SHOW IPA
SEE SYNONYMS FOR gnostic ON THESAURUS.COM
adjective Also gnos·ti·cal.
pertaining to knowledge.
possessing knowledge, especially esoteric knowledge of spiritual matters.
(initial capital letter) pertaining to or characteristic of the Gnostics.
noun
(initial capital letter) a member of any of certain sects among the early Christians who claimed to have superior knowledge of spiritual matters, and explained the world as created by powers or agencies arising as emanations from the Godhead.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78435837


That is about right, but remember that we do not read our myths literally as they were written as talking points against literalist view of the Christians myth, from a supernatural position, to compete with their omni-everything man made god, Yahweh.

That worked quite well till literal belief helped usher in the Dark Ages.

Here is our Gnostic perspective on those times, followed with why the literal reading of myths screwed up the search for god, defined as the best rules and laws to live by.

[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental trash that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

[link to bigthink.com (secure)]

Further.
[link to www.pbs.org]

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.

[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]

Regards
DL
Greatest I am  (OP)

User ID: 78435199
Canada
02/04/2020 03:34 PM
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Re: I am my highest authority, judge and guide. Who is yours?
So do you follow the teachings of Jesus (ie Jesus is your Guide and Judge) or no?

Your thread title says you are your own guide.
That is about the stupidest thing a person can do.
Your thread is a contradiction within itself.

But no wonder, if you are guiding yourself and you are your own highest authority, then it stands to reason you are stupid.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72530568


Such venom from a fellow Canadian. Oh well.

 Quoting: Greatest I am



 Quoting: Judethz


They must have got to you young to teach you to use fear as a teaching tool.

If your god, who began as master of all there is, ends with less, then he is a loser of a god as he would lose his omni everything.

Your fears have made you follow a genocidal prick that you can some how see as good.

Your bible warns you not to idol worship and call evil good.

I just put something above on the idiocy of reading myths literally.

Listen and learn and get out of your misogynous and homophobic religion that sees you as a second class citizen.

Regards
DL

Last Edited by Greatest I am on 02/04/2020 03:35 PM
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 78435837
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02/04/2020 03:36 PM
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Re: I am my highest authority, judge and guide. Who is yours?
Let's imagine that:

You're left alone somewhere where there are only rocks and sandy dunes, all around you hundreds of miles of that same hostile landscape.

You become hungry and thirsty after one day of presence in that barren land. It's cold by night, hot by day.

Then at this point who is your highest authority ?

Your stomach or what you claim to be 'you' ?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78435837


I am not my stomach and neither am I just a dick when I get horny.

Are you?

Regards
DL
 Quoting: Greatest I am


You walk in the flesh, your stomach is probably your inner god.

You would then bow down to the devil to receive what pleases your god.
Greatest I am  (OP)

User ID: 78435199
Canada
02/04/2020 03:44 PM
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Re: I am my highest authority, judge and guide. Who is yours?
True in the sense that we are one with the source, but also there are aspects of grace, intellect and power so far beyond "me". Ultimately, that is "me", but not in a practical sense. On the other hand, one may have a sense of unity with it, and it is acting through them. But are we going to assume the power and wisdom of deity? So for me it is true only philosophically.

In other words, Mama, Dada!

Having experienced some of the power of dark forces in the subtle that left me without breath going unconscious in the fetal position, not to mention the physical vulnerability of this body were it not for grace and protection, or karma. Karma would be a relevant consideration. For if you don't have the karma to get hurt or killed, perhaps you could walk through a live fire battle field unscathed.
 Quoting: syncro


Karma is not natural. Cause and effect are.

There is no dark force other than what emanates from us. The same applies to good force.

I have no problem of evil the way you seem to have. All l human to human good or evil is forced on us by evolution. That is why there is some truth in the fact that we are all sinners.

Here is the longer logic trail. Break it if you can.

------------

Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?
And if you cannot, why would God punish you?

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by putting forward their free will argument and placing all the blame on mankind.
That usually sounds like ----God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy. Such statements simply avoid God's culpability as the author and creator of human nature.

Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all do evil/sin by nature then, the evil/sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not do evil/sin. Can we then help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?

Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that evil and sin is all human generated and in this sense, I agree with Christians, but for completely different reasons. Evil is mankind’s responsibility and not some imaginary God’s. Free will is something that can only be taken. Free will cannot be given not even by a God unless it has been forcibly withheld.

Much has been written to explain evil and sin but I see as a natural part of evolution.

Consider.
First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created. Without intent to do evil, no act should be called evil.
In secular courts, this is called mens rea. Latin for an evil mind or intent and without it, the court will not find someone guilty even if they know that they are the perpetrator of the act.

Evil then is only human to human when they know they are doing evil and intend harm.

As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.
Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil, at all times.

Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.

This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.

Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, you should see that what Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanks for being available to us. Wherever it came from, God or nature, without evolution we would go extinct. We must do good and evil.

There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be. We all must do what some will think is evil as we compete and create losers to this competition.

This link speak to theistic evolution.

[link to www.smithsonianmag.com]

If theistic evolution is true, then the myth of Eden should be read as a myth and there is not really any original sin.

Doing evil then is actually forced on us by evolution and the need to survive. Our default position is to cooperate or to do good. I offer this clip as proof of this. You will note that we default to good as it is better for survival.

[link to www.youtube.com]

Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?
And if you cannot, why would God punish you?

Regards
DL
Greatest I am  (OP)

User ID: 78435199
Canada
02/04/2020 03:48 PM
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Re: I am my highest authority, judge and guide. Who is yours?
Let's imagine that:

You're left alone somewhere where there are only rocks and sandy dunes, all around you hundreds of miles of that same hostile landscape.

You become hungry and thirsty after one day of presence in that barren land. It's cold by night, hot by day.

Then at this point who is your highest authority ?

Your stomach or what you claim to be 'you' ?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78435837


I am not my stomach and neither am I just a dick when I get horny.

Are you?

Regards
DL
 Quoting: Greatest I am


You walk in the flesh, your stomach is probably your inner god.

You would then bow down to the devil to receive what pleases your god.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78435837


So you kowtow to your dick. Ok.

I don't as I know that sex starts in the mind.

Seems we are done. Take your last shot that I will ignore.

Regards
DL
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 72530568
Canada
02/04/2020 03:51 PM
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Re: I am my highest authority, judge and guide. Who is yours?
So do you follow the teachings of Jesus (ie Jesus is your Guide and Judge) or no?

Your thread title says you are your own guide.
That is about the stupidest thing a person can do.
Your thread is a contradiction within itself.

But no wonder, if you are guiding yourself and you are your own highest authority, then it stands to reason you are stupid.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72530568


Such venom from a fellow Canadian. Oh well.

Do you want to chat or insult?

In case of a chat, let me try to answer you, at your level as you seem to be a young and ill bread person.

Do you know anything of the esoteric Jesus archetype in the bible? Not the Roman garbage Jesus but the good one.

Here is some of his teachings.

Here is the real way to salvation that Jesus taught.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Allan Watts explain those quotes in detail.

[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]

When Jesus reached heaven, he took the judgement seat and became, basically, an independent autonomous thinker.

He more or less retired Yahweh and now sits as our judge. Esoterically speaking. Jesus likely never existed.

If you think being your own guide is stupid, you are calling Jesus stupid. That is not too bright of you, especially since your reply was from a position of ignorance.

Thanks for your time, but don't come back unless you change your garbage attitude.

Regards
DL
 Quoting: Greatest I am


Again - so is Jesus your Guide, or yourself?
You are not Jesus, and even Jesus wasn't his own guide - he took time away alone in the wilderness to reconnect with his Father.
You are ignorant, despite your claim to intelligence.
You didn't answer my questions, probably because you know I'm right.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 72530568


You forget our Chrestian roots, that were usurped by Christianity.

Modern Gnostic Christians name our god "I am", and yes, we do mean ourselves.

You are your controller. I am mine. You represent and present whatever mind picture you have of your God or ideal human, and so do I.

The name "I Am" you might see as meaning something like, --- I think I have grown up thanks to having forced my apotheosis through Gnosis and meditation.

In Gnostic Christianity, we follow the Christian tradition that Christians have forgotten that they are to do. That is, become brethren to Jesus.

That is why some say that the only good Christian is a Gnostic Christian.

Here is the real way to salvation that Jesus taught.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Allan Watts explain those quotes in detail.

[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]

Be like Moses when asked who his god was by Pharaoh.

Put yourself in his shoes, stand tall and say, I am.

I have suffered my apotheosis and am a brethren to Christ.

Do you see the Christ answering to a higher force when he took the judgement seat?

No. Neither do I.

That is why, we and other esoteric religions put men above god.

That is the good news Jesus and Allen Watts speaks of.

Regards
DL
 Quoting: Greatest I am


So you are not your own authority - Jesus is your authority.
You have stated this in the thread many times. But your thread title says otherwise.
You also say that you are your own god.
That is contradictory.
There is One GOD.
Even the demons know this and shudder.
Who did Jesus pray to in the Garden?
You are a false teacher and are purposefully steering people into hell.
Greatest I am  (OP)

User ID: 78435199
Canada
02/04/2020 04:08 PM
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Re: I am my highest authority, judge and guide. Who is yours?
You are a literalist supernaturalstupid thinker and no Gnostic Christian as we hold no supernatural beliefs.

Go away as you are not worth my time.

You might want to read what Jesus had to say about heaven being here on earth and how most cannot see it. I can. You can't and you should seek Gnosis.

You are an idol worshiper and Jesus would reject you.

Regards
DL
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 78435837
France
02/04/2020 04:11 PM
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Re: I am my highest authority, judge and guide. Who is yours?
Let's imagine that:

You're left alone somewhere where there are only rocks and sandy dunes, all around you hundreds of miles of that same hostile landscape.

You become hungry and thirsty after one day of presence in that barren land. It's cold by night, hot by day.

Then at this point who is your highest authority ?

Your stomach or what you claim to be 'you' ?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78435837


I am not my stomach and neither am I just a dick when I get horny.

Are you?

Regards
DL
 Quoting: Greatest I am


You walk in the flesh, your stomach is probably your inner god.

You would then bow down to the devil to receive what pleases your god.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78435837


So you kowtow to your dick. Ok.

I don't as I know that sex starts in the mind.

Seems we are done. Take your last shot that I will ignore.

Regards
DL
 Quoting: Greatest I am


Did i mention anything regarding sex ?

or is it your sex that actually drives 'you' ?

You're unable to give an answer to a clear contextual hypothesis, but you claim that you see your judgements as more moral than Yhawe.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 74756475
United Kingdom
02/04/2020 04:15 PM
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Re: I am my highest authority, judge and guide. Who is yours?
Let's imagine that:

You're left alone somewhere where there are only rocks and sandy dunes, all around you hundreds of miles of that same hostile landscape.

You become hungry and thirsty after one day of presence in that barren land. It's cold by night, hot by day.

Then at this point who is your highest authority ?

Your stomach or what you claim to be 'you' ?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78435837


The needs of the flesh are temporary and illusory at best. The "I" that is you will endure even after the flesh and bones and even the earth Herself has faded into dust.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 74756475
United Kingdom
02/04/2020 04:27 PM
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Re: I am my highest authority, judge and guide. Who is yours?
True in the sense that we are one with the source, but also there are aspects of grace, intellect and power so far beyond "me". Ultimately, that is "me", but not in a practical sense. On the other hand, one may have a sense of unity with it, and it is acting through them. But are we going to assume the power and wisdom of deity? So for me it is true only philosophically.

In other words, Mama, Dada!

Having experienced some of the power of dark forces in the subtle that left me without breath going unconscious in the fetal position, not to mention the physical vulnerability of this body were it not for grace and protection, or karma. Karma would be a relevant consideration. For if you don't have the karma to get hurt or killed, perhaps you could walk through a live fire battle field unscathed.
 Quoting: syncro


Karma is not natural. Cause and effect are.

There is no dark force other than what emanates from us. The same applies to good force.

I have no problem of evil the way you seem to have. All l human to human good or evil is forced on us by evolution. That is why there is some truth in the fact that we are all sinners.

Here is the longer logic trail. Break it if you can.

------------

Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?
And if you cannot, why would God punish you?

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by putting forward their free will argument and placing all the blame on mankind.
That usually sounds like ----God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy. Such statements simply avoid God's culpability as the author and creator of human nature.

Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all do evil/sin by nature then, the evil/sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not do evil/sin. Can we then help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?

Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that evil and sin is all human generated and in this sense, I agree with Christians, but for completely different reasons. Evil is mankind’s responsibility and not some imaginary God’s. Free will is something that can only be taken. Free will cannot be given not even by a God unless it has been forcibly withheld.

Much has been written to explain evil and sin but I see as a natural part of evolution.

Consider.
First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created. Without intent to do evil, no act should be called evil.
In secular courts, this is called mens rea. Latin for an evil mind or intent and without it, the court will not find someone guilty even if they know that they are the perpetrator of the act.

Evil then is only human to human when they know they are doing evil and intend harm.

As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.
Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil, at all times.

Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.

This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.

Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, you should see that what Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanks for being available to us. Wherever it came from, God or nature, without evolution we would go extinct. We must do good and evil.

There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be. We all must do what some will think is evil as we compete and create losers to this competition.

This link speak to theistic evolution.

[link to www.smithsonianmag.com]

If theistic evolution is true, then the myth of Eden should be read as a myth and there is not really any original sin.

Doing evil then is actually forced on us by evolution and the need to survive. Our default position is to cooperate or to do good. I offer this clip as proof of this. You will note that we default to good as it is better for survival.

[link to www.youtube.com]

Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?
And if you cannot, why would God punish you?

Regards
DL
 Quoting: Greatest I am


Karma IS the Law of Cause and Effect.

Just becasue your senses are too lowly to perceive the length of effects of your actions does not mean the ripple does not effect the whole pond.

Your problem is you label everything good and evil without even knowing what good and evil are.

Good and evil are SUBJECTIVE and that is your error.
If a thief steels bread from you do you not call that thief's deeds "evil"?

What if you were allowed to see that the thief stole your bread to feed a child who hasn't eaten for days? Is that action still evil simply becasue it was a transgression against you personally?

See how "good and evil" are subjective to interpretation?

Good and evil are the laymen's terms for AWARENESS AND IGNORANCE of the Truth.

For what are G-d's Divine Laws if not the ABSOLUTE TRUTH?

To be aware of these Laws is what we would consider "Good" as awareness of these Laws lead to adherence to these Laws and that equates to prolonged LIFE.

just like awareness of the Laws of electricity has led mankind to technology that PROLONGS LIFE.

Now this awareness of electricity can also be used to destroy life, but this is another layer of ignorance. For if One were truly aware that all life is One, then One would never seek to intentionally destroy ANY life for selfish gain.

Thus Gnosis is salvation for through awareness of Truth (Good) we can establish a connection to Truth and to G-d and prosper in DIVINE GNOSIS, conquering those elements of this world that seek to snuff us out.

Collectively we can overcome all obstacles that face our species through GNOSIS and AWARENESS of SUPREME TRUTH.

An omnipotent mind can use the Laws of the Universe to overcome any limitation (limitation = ignorance).

A collective omnipotent mind can conquer this illusory plane and transcend.

Even a creature as lowly as the Ant can take over the world if the wills of all the Ants on the planet are directed towards One singular goal.
syncro

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02/04/2020 04:33 PM
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Re: I am my highest authority, judge and guide. Who is yours?
True in the sense that we are one with the source, but also there are aspects of grace, intellect and power so far beyond "me". Ultimately, that is "me", but not in a practical sense. On the other hand, one may have a sense of unity with it, and it is acting through them. But are we going to assume the power and wisdom of deity? So for me it is true only philosophically.

In other words, Mama, Dada!

Having experienced some of the power of dark forces in the subtle that left me without breath going unconscious in the fetal position, not to mention the physical vulnerability of this body were it not for grace and protection, or karma. Karma would be a relevant consideration. For if you don't have the karma to get hurt or killed, perhaps you could walk through a live fire battle field unscathed.
 Quoting: syncro


Karma is not natural. Cause and effect are.

There is no dark force other than what emanates from us. The same applies to good force.

I have no problem of evil the way you seem to have. All l human to human good or evil is forced on us by evolution. That is why there is some truth in the fact that we are all sinners.

Here is the longer logic trail. Break it if you can.

------------

Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?
And if you cannot, why would God punish you?

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by putting forward their free will argument and placing all the blame on mankind.
That usually sounds like ----God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy. Such statements simply avoid God's culpability as the author and creator of human nature.

Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all do evil/sin by nature then, the evil/sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not do evil/sin. Can we then help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?

Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that evil and sin is all human generated and in this sense, I agree with Christians, but for completely different reasons. Evil is mankind’s responsibility and not some imaginary God’s. Free will is something that can only be taken. Free will cannot be given not even by a God unless it has been forcibly withheld.

Much has been written to explain evil and sin but I see as a natural part of evolution.

Consider.
First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created. Without intent to do evil, no act should be called evil.
In secular courts, this is called mens rea. Latin for an evil mind or intent and without it, the court will not find someone guilty even if they know that they are the perpetrator of the act.

Evil then is only human to human when they know they are doing evil and intend harm.

As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.
Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil, at all times.

Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.

This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.

Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, you should see that what Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanks for being available to us. Wherever it came from, God or nature, without evolution we would go extinct. We must do good and evil.

There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be. We all must do what some will think is evil as we compete and create losers to this competition.

This link speak to theistic evolution.

[link to www.smithsonianmag.com]

If theistic evolution is true, then the myth of Eden should be read as a myth and there is not really any original sin.

Doing evil then is actually forced on us by evolution and the need to survive. Our default position is to cooperate or to do good. I offer this clip as proof of this. You will note that we default to good as it is better for survival.

[link to www.youtube.com]

Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?
And if you cannot, why would God punish you?

Regards
DL
 Quoting: Greatest I am


Karma was a side thought, but to your original point, I'm just saying there are levels of power and intellect and grace and darkness "out there" that would make us look like insects. It is easy to say that emanates from me, but to say it honestly would be to be at that level of power and sight. In a mood of devotion I could say, I am [a divine name]. I am that in a sense of love and surrender, but not in position, if that makes sense. Not that it is not empowering, and there could be times when the larger acts through the smaller, but to authentically claim that as one's emanation would be rare, imo, and more power to those who can.

And who knows, I may be in meditation next week and experience the cosmic as my own emanation. At that point I would not be able to argue. But at the end I would still surrender the fruits to God.

The ways are not really different. Even if one doesn't surrender to deity, in a subtle way they are surrendering the lower to the higher in themselves, like the Advaitans. It's interesting and maybe someone can confirm; Nirsargadatta was an ultimate teacher of I AM THAT, the formless absolute, the Self that encompasses and leaves behind all, but at the same time, he still performed the regular rituals in respect to God and Guru. Ramana Maharshi did the same.
ModeloVirus

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02/04/2020 04:37 PM
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Re: I am my highest authority, judge and guide. Who is yours?
Crom, who brought fire and wind in the days before the oceans drank Atlanta.
EWWWWW!
ModeloVirus

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02/04/2020 04:37 PM
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Re: I am my highest authority, judge and guide. Who is yours?
Crom, who brought fire and wind in the days before the oceans drank Atlanta.
EWWWWW!
mr jenzie

User ID: 78239876
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02/04/2020 04:38 PM
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Re: I am my highest authority, judge and guide. Who is yours?
*ahem*

YOUR MOM
Greatest I am  (OP)

User ID: 78435199
Canada
02/04/2020 06:08 PM
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Re: I am my highest authority, judge and guide. Who is yours?
...


I am not my stomach and neither am I just a dick when I get horny.

Are you?

Regards
DL
 Quoting: Greatest I am


You walk in the flesh, your stomach is probably your inner god.

You would then bow down to the devil to receive what pleases your god.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78435837


So you kowtow to your dick. Ok.

I don't as I know that sex starts in the mind.

Seems we are done. Take your last shot that I will ignore.

Regards
DL
 Quoting: Greatest I am


Did i mention anything regarding sex ?

or is it your sex that actually drives 'you' ?

You're unable to give an answer to a clear contextual hypothesis, but you claim that you see your judgements as more moral than Yhawe.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78435837


Are you morals not better than a genocidal and infanticidal prick of a god's?

Regards
DL
Greatest I am  (OP)

User ID: 78435199
Canada
02/04/2020 06:13 PM
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Re: I am my highest authority, judge and guide. Who is yours?
True in the sense that we are one with the source, but also there are aspects of grace, intellect and power so far beyond "me". Ultimately, that is "me", but not in a practical sense. On the other hand, one may have a sense of unity with it, and it is acting through them. But are we going to assume the power and wisdom of deity? So for me it is true only philosophically.

In other words, Mama, Dada!

Having experienced some of the power of dark forces in the subtle that left me without breath going unconscious in the fetal position, not to mention the physical vulnerability of this body were it not for grace and protection, or karma. Karma would be a relevant consideration. For if you don't have the karma to get hurt or killed, perhaps you could walk through a live fire battle field unscathed.
 Quoting: syncro


Karma is not natural. Cause and effect are.

There is no dark force other than what emanates from us. The same applies to good force.

I have no problem of evil the way you seem to have. All l human to human good or evil is forced on us by evolution. That is why there is some truth in the fact that we are all sinners.

Here is the longer logic trail. Break it if you can.

------------

Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?
And if you cannot, why would God punish you?

Christians are always trying to absolve God of moral culpability in the fall by putting forward their free will argument and placing all the blame on mankind.
That usually sounds like ----God gave us free will and it was our free willed choices that caused our fall. Hence God is not blameworthy. Such statements simply avoid God's culpability as the author and creator of human nature.

Free will is only the ability to choose. It is not an explanation why anyone would want to choose "A" or "B" (bad or good action). An explanation for why Eve would even have the nature of "being vulnerable to being easily swayed by a serpent" and "desiring to eat a forbidden fruit" must lie in the nature God gave Eve in the first place. Hence God is culpable for deliberately making humans with a nature-inclined-to-fall, and "free will" means nothing as a response to this problem.

If all do evil/sin by nature then, the evil/sin nature is dominant. If not, we would have at least some who would not do evil/sin. Can we then help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?

Having said the above for the God that I do not believe in, I am a Gnostic Christian naturalist, let me tell you that evil and sin is all human generated and in this sense, I agree with Christians, but for completely different reasons. Evil is mankind’s responsibility and not some imaginary God’s. Free will is something that can only be taken. Free will cannot be given not even by a God unless it has been forcibly withheld.

Much has been written to explain evil and sin but I see as a natural part of evolution.

Consider.
First, let us eliminate what some see as evil. Natural disasters. These are unthinking occurrences and are neither good nor evil. There is no intent to do evil even as victims are created. Without intent to do evil, no act should be called evil.
In secular courts, this is called mens rea. Latin for an evil mind or intent and without it, the court will not find someone guilty even if they know that they are the perpetrator of the act.

Evil then is only human to human when they know they are doing evil and intend harm.

As evolving creatures, all we ever do, and ever can do, is compete or cooperate.
Cooperation we would see as good as there are no victims created. Competition would be seen as evil as it creates a victim. We all are either cooperating, doing good, or competing, doing evil, at all times.

Without us doing some of both, we would likely go extinct.

This, to me, explains why there is evil in the world quite well.

Be you a believer in nature, evolution or God, you should see that what Christians see as something to blame, evil, we should see that what we have, competition, deserves a huge thanks for being available to us. Wherever it came from, God or nature, without evolution we would go extinct. We must do good and evil.

There is no conflict between nature and God on this issue. This is how things are and should be. We all must do what some will think is evil as we compete and create losers to this competition.

This link speak to theistic evolution.

[link to www.smithsonianmag.com]

If theistic evolution is true, then the myth of Eden should be read as a myth and there is not really any original sin.

Doing evil then is actually forced on us by evolution and the need to survive. Our default position is to cooperate or to do good. I offer this clip as proof of this. You will note that we default to good as it is better for survival.

[link to www.youtube.com]

Can you help but do evil? I do not see how. Do you?
And if you cannot, why would God punish you?

Regards
DL
 Quoting: Greatest I am


Karma IS the Law of Cause and Effect.

Just becasue your senses are too lowly to perceive the length of effects of your actions does not mean the ripple does not effect the whole pond.

Your problem is you label everything good and evil without even knowing what good and evil are.

Good and evil are SUBJECTIVE and that is your error.
If a thief steels bread from you do you not call that thief's deeds "evil"?

What if you were allowed to see that the thief stole your bread to feed a child who hasn't eaten for days? Is that action still evil simply becasue it was a transgression against you personally?

See how "good and evil" are subjective to interpretation?

Good and evil are the laymen's terms for AWARENESS AND IGNORANCE of the Truth.

For what are G-d's Divine Laws if not the ABSOLUTE TRUTH?

To be aware of these Laws is what we would consider "Good" as awareness of these Laws lead to adherence to these Laws and that equates to prolonged LIFE.

just like awareness of the Laws of electricity has led mankind to technology that PROLONGS LIFE.

Now this awareness of electricity can also be used to destroy life, but this is another layer of ignorance. For if One were truly aware that all life is One, then One would never seek to intentionally destroy ANY life for selfish gain.

Thus Gnosis is salvation for through awareness of Truth (Good) we can establish a connection to Truth and to G-d and prosper in DIVINE GNOSIS, conquering those elements of this world that seek to snuff us out.

Collectively we can overcome all obstacles that face our species through GNOSIS and AWARENESS of SUPREME TRUTH.

An omnipotent mind can use the Laws of the Universe to overcome any limitation (limitation = ignorance).

A collective omnipotent mind can conquer this illusory plane and transcend.

Even a creature as lowly as the Ant can take over the world if the wills of all the Ants on the planet are directed towards One singular goal.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74756475


Thanks for not speaking to what I gave you.

Not quite my type of discussion when issues are ignored.

Regards
DL

Last Edited by Greatest I am on 02/04/2020 06:14 PM
Funney
User ID: 72942568
Czechia
02/05/2020 06:30 AM
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Re: I am my highest authority, judge and guide. Who is yours?
judge? i do not judge
i am a theist
body feels like a drill down here
but souls are happy

hf
abduct
 Quoting: Funney 78173283


Not a good one it seems, if a Christian, because your own bible tells you to judge all things and hold fast to the good.

Most Christians do not judge either and have settled for a genocidal and infanticidal god and a homophobic and misogynous religion, while calling all that evil goo,

I hope there is hope for you.

Regards
DL
 Quoting: Greatest I am


you should look what it means to be a theist
Greatest I am  (OP)

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02/05/2020 11:07 AM
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Re: I am my highest authority, judge and guide. Who is yours?
judge? i do not judge
i am a theist
body feels like a drill down here
but souls are happy

hf
abduct
 Quoting: Funney 78173283


Not a good one it seems, if a Christian, because your own bible tells you to judge all things and hold fast to the good.

Most Christians do not judge either and have settled for a genocidal and infanticidal god and a homophobic and misogynous religion, while calling all that evil goo,

I hope there is hope for you.

Regards
DL
 Quoting: Greatest I am


you should look what it means to be a theist
 Quoting: Funney 72942568


There are many aspects to theism.

Thanks for showing which aspects you follow.

Regards
DL
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 78361323
United States
02/05/2020 11:19 AM
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Re: I am my highest authority, judge and guide. Who is yours?
judge? i do not judge
i am a theist
body feels like a drill down here
but souls are happy

hf
abduct
 Quoting: Funney 78173283


Not a good one it seems, if a Christian, because your own bible tells you to judge all things and hold fast to the good.

Most Christians do not judge either and have settled for a genocidal and infanticidal god and a homophobic and misogynous religion, while calling all that evil goo,

I hope there is hope for you.

Regards
DL
 Quoting: Greatest I am


you should look what it means to be a theist
 Quoting: Funney 72942568


There are many aspects to theism.

Thanks for showing which aspects you follow.

Regards
DL
 Quoting: Greatest I am


You have shown you are NOT the greatest I am.

The only way you can maintain a position if by use of censorship, not the power of your word.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
02/05/2020 11:20 AM
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Re: I am my highest authority, judge and guide. Who is yours?
Censorship is violence and membership denotes approval.
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2020 11:22 AM
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Re: I am my highest authority, judge and guide. Who is yours?
Speak up, and testify as to what was removed from your thread.

Did you demand it?

Why was it removed?





GLP