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disconnect between paper gold prices and physical gold

 
GOLDFINGER
User ID: 9809
New Zealand
08/22/2007 03:53 AM
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disconnect between paper gold prices and physical gold
some anecdotes......

...In the past week, I did a fair-sized Gold trade for a client who is a stockbroker....At the time, based on what I'd already been experiencing in terms of "product availabilty", I cautioned her that it MIGHT take a good 10 days to 2 weeks to round up her +/- 75-oz. of Gold....
.
...Like a lot of buyers, she was amazed that the "stuff" wasn't 'like, immediately available'!?! "WHY not", she inquired? Well, 'surpluses' of physical Gold AND Silver have apparently been slowly disappearing over the past few years and, as well, based on recent U.S. Mint production figures, FEWER and fewer Gold Eagles and Silver Eagles and Platinum Eagles have been minted, especially over the past 4-5 years, despite a steady rise in the gold price.....
.
...Has the RISE in price slowed investment demand THAT MUCH? I doubt it.....

In talking with a few of the older, established bullion wholesalers, a number of them have noted that, in years past, a fair amount of "recycled" bullion was coming back into this country from Europe and Asia....IT'S NOT HAPPENING any more, and hasn't happened to any degree for the past few years....Sources that they used to count on for Euro-gold [tens of thousands of primarily 20 Franc coins and British Sovereigns] have dwindled to a trickle....THE SUPPLY ISN'T THERE....it's been taken OFF the markets and will likely not return until considerably higher Gold prices are seen!

Silver is getting to be in equally t-i-g-h-t supply because we've stayed in a $4-5 trading range for nearly the past two years....and mostly above $11.00 much of that time with a ceiling around $15.00. Personally, I was surprised at how little silver was SOLD to us or others I talked with when it was trading between $14 and $15/oz. not that long ago.....VERY LITTLE came back to wholesalers or "into the pipeline"....and NOW, it, too, has dried up, virtually and hardly available even at strong premiums over the current Spot Price....

So, for those who've traded through or with ME over the years, or those who trade with their local coin shop or perhaps some larger internet bullion house, DON'T EXPECT TO GET FAST DELIVERIES ON PHYSICALS GOING FORWARD, and don't hope for some "cheap" prices being offered to you as there is a real "crunch" going on to FIND available supplies for resale.......

In other words, the days of "cheap" gold and silver may well be drawing to a close....You may see "spot month" prices for actual physical product start moving higher and higher as supplies dwindle further

# +27 on krand
+36 eagles
+32 Maples
I have never seen anything like this in the past twelve years.
It seems like many have run to physical to forget about the banking system's turmoil.
.

[Edit]


Tulving is showing Krands at 14.00 over spot. 20 oz minimum. The only other bullion coin available is Philharmonics at +15.00. No stock on pre 2007 Eagles/Maples/Kangaroos.
No stock on slAg bags.
Real price is in big divergence from COMEX price.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 264344
United States
08/22/2007 03:58 AM
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Re: disconnect between paper gold prices and physical gold
some guy on ebay from china was tryin to tell me that the chains he was selling were 40g 14K gold and they were being sold for $1-$20. he is no longer an ebay member.


I have gotten 2 real gold chains off ebay though and they are real. only 14K...would rather have 18 or 22-23K but I can't afford it right now.


btw does anyone know what is in 14K gold besides gold?

is there a usual recipe or does it differ.
GOLDFINGER (OP)
User ID: 9809
New Zealand
08/22/2007 04:05 AM
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Re: disconnect between paper gold prices and physical gold
sorry mate ...14 carat not good . you should buy bullion 9 four nines or five nines ) that is 99.99% pure gold , very heavy stuff , a kilo bar 32.151 oz is less than he size of a cigarette packet. GET SOME SOON it is going back to 1 to 1 ratio with the Dow for the third time in 100 years.

Dow 1933 35 Gold $35 per oz
Dow 1980 864 Gold 864
Dow target 5000 Gold Target $5000
coming to a planet near you
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 264344
United States
08/22/2007 04:06 AM
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Re: disconnect between paper gold prices and physical gold
sorry mate ...14 carat not good . you should buy bullion 9 four nines or five nines ) that is 99.99% pure gold , very heavy stuff , a kilo bar 32.151 oz is less than he size of a cigarette packet. GET SOME SOON it is going back to 1 to 1 ratio with the Dow for the third time in 100 years.

Dow 1933 35 Gold $35 per oz
Dow 1980 864 Gold 864
Dow target 5000 Gold Target $5000
coming to a planet near you
 Quoting: GOLDFINGER 9809

hey i dont have that kind of cash. i just buy gold chains so i can look like the rappers.

they dotn even make 99.99% gold jewelry anyways.
GOLDFINGER (OP)
User ID: 9809
New Zealand
08/22/2007 04:08 AM
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Re: disconnect between paper gold prices and physical gold
Further a couple of years ago at the gold bottom the ratio was
40:1
Now less then 20:1 , go with the trend it is your friend.

A run on banks is imminent
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 286525
United States
08/22/2007 04:14 AM
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Re: disconnect between paper gold prices and physical gold
:bk:
GOLDFINGER (OP)
User ID: 9809
New Zealand
08/22/2007 04:31 AM
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Re: disconnect between paper gold prices and physical gold
YES the USD is already under threat as the treserve currncy of the World , but gold which has been the ultimate form of wealth for thousands of years is still 10% in actual price than it was nearly 30 years ago on adjusted prices. It is incredibly undervalued ( especially now the derivative bubble is bursting )
Gold is extremely rare....their exists less than 1 oz per person on the planet. The financiers have kept the price artificially low by flooding the world with paper derivatives , tell your bank manager or finacial advisor you want to buy Gold , they will talk you into a a GOLD FUND or mining company ( that is probably hedged in advance at low prices ). Anything but actually buying and taking delivery of the physical item.

In the late 1970s the Banks all sold their gold only to see prices soar in 1979 1980. The Central Banks worldwide have been selling their physical gold ( on advice of lobbyists ) for the last five years. But it is impossible to find out who the buyers have been ....

My advise Take all your assets ( aprt from what you need to live on ) and buy and take delivery of the physical GOLD today if you can. Hide it somewhere very very safe and tell no one about it.

IT MAY SAFE YOUR LIFE and will undoubtedly MAKE YOU WEALTHY
thegov

User ID: 229006
United States
08/22/2007 04:59 AM
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Re: disconnect between paper gold prices and physical gold
Gold is a commodity - not a form of currency. Investing in gold is no different than investing in platinum, orange juice, or uranium they are all commodities and there prices and value is based on supply and demand of the markets. Having reserves of physical gold does nothing for an individual and you most definitely stand to make more by investing your money in a mutual fund or bonds.

Gold is currently at $667 - adjusting for inflation, this means that Gold is worth less today than it was in the 80's. Gold isn't some special commodity that only appreciates in value, the price depends on the demand. At the moment the demand for Gold is not as high as it used to be, plus production levels are up. In right now a pig, a cow, or a troy ounce of Platinum is worth more than a troy ounce of Gold.

A wise investor would diversify their portfolio but never invest in something just because of a perceived notion of value. While precious metals might be commodities worth investing in given most of the appreciation over the past several years, it definitely doesn't help your portfolio to try to acquire physical specimen. And for those that think you should purchase physical specimen of gold for some coming catastrophe - what do you think will be more valuable in a post-apocalyptic world; A troy once of Gold or a Pig?
GOLDFINGER
User ID: 286539
New Zealand
08/22/2007 05:10 AM
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Re: disconnect between paper gold prices and physical gold
HERE HE IS the first Broker trying to persuade you otherwise.

dont listen to him

YOU NEED SOME GOLD ..try and GET IT its not easy and not readily available WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU.

you buy a pig mate....if thats what you believe...
did you read the anecdote. A SHAREBROKER wanted to buy a lot of physical GOLD WHY ????

and she couldnt understand why she couldnt just buy it anad take it away...

a bit different than buying a PIG ....
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 12306
United States
08/22/2007 05:14 AM
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Re: disconnect between paper gold prices and physical gold
You can buy a Ranch with Gold and Silver!

hiding
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 275266
United Kingdom
08/22/2007 05:14 AM
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Re: disconnect between paper gold prices and physical gold
To me paper gold is a construct - no better than fiat currency.

If all the paper holders demanded physical then the supply would evaporate.

I'm curious to know just how much 'leverage' there is in the paper gold market.
GOLDFINGER
User ID: 286539
New Zealand
08/22/2007 05:20 AM
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Re: disconnect between paper gold prices and physical gold
Imagine a par five golf hole 500 metres long wide fairways and trees ...the complete layout is the entire GOLD MARKET ( paper , shares derivatives etc etc and physical gold )............the hole ( about 4 inches in diameter from memory ) represents the
actual worldwide physical supply of GOLD ever mined...the rest is the paper market..

DO YOU UNDERSTAND HOW VALUABLE THIS STUFF REALLY IS

GET SOME TODAY
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 163242
United States
08/22/2007 05:43 AM
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Re: disconnect between paper gold prices and physical gold
Imagine a par five golf hole 500 metres long wide fairways and trees ...the complete layout is the entire GOLD MARKET ( paper , shares derivatives etc etc and physical gold )............the hole ( about 4 inches in diameter from memory ) represents the
actual worldwide physical supply of GOLD ever mined...the rest is the paper market..

DO YOU UNDERSTAND HOW VALUABLE THIS STUFF REALLY IS

GET SOME TODAY
 Quoting: GOLDFINGER 286539


well I guess that sums it up.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 286549
Australia
08/22/2007 05:57 AM
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Re: disconnect between paper gold prices and physical gold
Imagine a par five golf hole 500 metres long wide fairways and trees ...the complete layout is the entire GOLD MARKET ( paper , shares derivatives etc etc and physical gold )............the hole ( about 4 inches in diameter from memory ) represents the
actual worldwide physical supply of GOLD ever mined...the rest is the paper market..

DO YOU UNDERSTAND HOW VALUABLE THIS STUFF REALLY IS

GET SOME TODAY
 Quoting: GOLDFINGER 286539


Goldfinger, you sound like you know what's what about gold and such. How much time do you think we have left to buy gold at around the current price and how much do you see it rising to when TSHTF. Also, what about Silver?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 286549
Australia
08/22/2007 06:03 AM
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Re: disconnect between paper gold prices and physical gold
Shit, this is weird. For the last two hours or so I have been checking out the websites and places that buy/sell gold and contemplating buying some. Also printed out read a good article that CROW posted a couple of days ago regarding the purchase of gold as an asset. Then I click on to GLP and the first post I see is this one. Well that bloody well seals it. I'm buying some.
GOLDFINGER
User ID: 286555
New Zealand
08/22/2007 06:09 AM
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Re: disconnect between paper gold prices and physical gold
Time LEFT

of course i dont know.

I had the pleasure in 1983 of staying in London a guest in the home of one Stafford Cottman for six weeks. Stafford was George Orwells best friend, and fought with him in the Spanish Civil war.He was an interesting political thinker. Well undoubtedly we are now living in an Orwellian world where we are continually lied to by the media , Democracy no longer exists , and undoubtedly TSHTF will happen , much as i wish we could change things .

2012 will be some sort of cleansing but it looks like all sorts of crap before then. Those of you that have read the DaVinci code and know about Fibonnaci numbers might like to look at when the USA had civil war and when the declaration of independence was signed and think about the Fib numbers 144 and 233 in years.

in a SHTF really bad i would think gold masy have a purchasing power of around $100000 USD per oz in todays values and silver was one 16 th of the Gold price in the 1980 high for both metals.

Namaste
Godot

User ID: 266360
United States
08/22/2007 06:24 AM
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Re: disconnect between paper gold prices and physical gold
Gold is a commodity - not a form of currency. Investing in gold is no different than investing in platinum, orange juice, or uranium they are all commodities and there prices and value is based on supply and demand of the markets. Having reserves of physical gold does nothing for an individual and you most definitely stand to make more by investing your money in a mutual fund or bonds.

Gold is currently at $667 - adjusting for inflation, this means that Gold is worth less today than it was in the 80's. Gold isn't some special commodity that only appreciates in value, the price depends on the demand. At the moment the demand for Gold is not as high as it used to be, plus production levels are up. In right now a pig, a cow, or a troy ounce of Platinum is worth more than a troy ounce of Gold.

A wise investor would diversify their portfolio but never invest in something just because of a perceived notion of value. While precious metals might be commodities worth investing in given most of the appreciation over the past several years, it definitely doesn't help your portfolio to try to acquire physical specimen. And for those that think you should purchase physical specimen of gold for some coming catastrophe - what do you think will be more valuable in a post-apocalyptic world; A troy once of Gold or a Pig?
 Quoting: thegov


Now that you mention it, its tricky to transport my pig to Thailand, Hawaii or wherever, in my pocket.

Bottom line, nothing in the world is more liquid, more mobile or more universally accepted in more locations in trade for the local currency, than gold.
Yes it's safe, it's very safe, it's so safe you wouldn't believe it....
... No, it's not safe, it's very dangerous. Be Careful.
Dervish

User ID: 282066
United Arab Emirates
08/22/2007 06:39 AM
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Re: disconnect between paper gold prices and physical gold
Op, I live overseas now, actually in a place nicknamed the city of gold.

I concur with your statement. I can still buy gold jewellry with the mark up, but actual investment coins and bars have been hard to get for some time now.

When the US markets dropped, and people supposedly needed liquidity by selling gold, did anyone notice an increase in physical gold supply?

I didn't. So it was either paper gold being moved, or some people hoarding up as soon as it was available.

If its the second part thats happening..follow the money.
I know enough to know that I know nothing
GOLDFINGER
User ID: 286578
New Zealand
08/22/2007 07:23 AM
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Re: disconnect between paper gold prices and physical gold
heads up gold watchers .... backwardation creeping in -- 06:50:58 08/22/07 Wed
6 month gold lease rate is ABOVE the 1 year ... the tsunami approaches stealthily but inevitably .... when it reaches the 1 month rates the afterburners will hit and paper will burn

trillions of losses not yet marked-to-market --

most people don't yet get it .... the auction that Bear Stearns held for its CDO's failed .. no bid, worthless ... there are trillions of those same or similar derivatives out there, on the books of every hedge fund, financial institution, big banks, investment banks, money-market fund .... still waiting to be valued.


get it?


this is massively deflationary and it is not going away anytime soon, there may not be an actual panic but the world is going the way that Japan went 18 years ago .... the carry-trade helped and Japan has finally sucked the world into deflationary depression

just like in japan the bad debts will hang around on books for months, years and finally decades, keeping interest rates excessively low and insolvent banks staggering around the markets like zombies, nobody wishing to put there money anywhere until the final shoe drops or bank blows up .... which it never does .... it's just starting.

BUY GOLD TAKE DELIVERY ..you have been WARNED
GET REAL
User ID: 286694
New Zealand
08/22/2007 01:02 PM
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Re: disconnect between paper gold prices and physical gold
this is sooooooo RIGHT
caught
User ID: 210521
United States
08/22/2007 01:44 PM
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Re: disconnect between paper gold prices and physical gold
So getting silver to put in an IRA where it has to be parked in some bank vault in NY isn't a good idea? It does seem like a catch-22, the desire to find a "safe" place to transfer IRA money but it not being in hand makes it almost as risky as paper? Your thoughts would be appreciated.
IRA RA
User ID: 286706
United States
08/22/2007 02:11 PM
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Re: disconnect between paper gold prices and physical gold
Borrow against your IRA and take physical possession.

Ben will paper this deflation over with helicopter CASH and you can pay back pennies on your dollars borrowed.

Meanwhile your physical hoard will ACCRUE!

... easy for me to say. But it SOUNDS like a good idea.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 5174
United States
08/22/2007 02:18 PM
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Re: disconnect between paper gold prices and physical gold
"Having reserves of physical gold does nothing for an individual and you most definitely stand to make more by investing your money in a mutual fund or bonds."

THAT WAS WORTH READING THROUGH THIS WHOLE THREAD.

LMFAO.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 275222
United States
08/22/2007 02:30 PM
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Re: disconnect between paper gold prices and physical gold
I think that is an excellent idea...borrow and buy physical...chances are you will never have to pay back the loan if the banks crash and burn and you will have the gold
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 273217
United States
08/22/2007 02:31 PM
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Re: disconnect between paper gold prices and physical gold
Gold is a commodity - not a form of currency. Investing in gold is no different than investing in platinum, orange juice, or uranium they are all commodities and there prices and value is based on supply and demand of the markets. Having reserves of physical gold does nothing for an individual and you most definitely stand to make more by investing your money in a mutual fund or bonds.

Gold is currently at $667 - adjusting for inflation, this means that Gold is worth less today than it was in the 80's. Gold isn't some special commodity that only appreciates in value, the price depends on the demand. At the moment the demand for Gold is not as high as it used to be, plus production levels are up. In right now a pig, a cow, or a troy ounce of Platinum is worth more than a troy ounce of Gold.

A wise investor would diversify their portfolio but never invest in something just because of a perceived notion of value. While precious metals might be commodities worth investing in given most of the appreciation over the past several years, it definitely doesn't help your portfolio to try to acquire physical specimen. And for those that think you should purchase physical specimen of gold for some coming catastrophe - what do you think will be more valuable in a post-apocalyptic world; A troy once of Gold or a Pig?
 Quoting: thegov


You know, right up to the last sentence, I was going to say "where do you think you are posting, anyway?" but obviously you know...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 243849
Canada
08/22/2007 02:40 PM
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Re: disconnect between paper gold prices and physical gold
How come silver & gold maples have a higher content/more pure gold than silver & gold eagles but the eagles cost more to purchase?

Remote, rural land is probablt more valuable than gold but what the heck, I bought both with my fiat canuk bucks.





GLP