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Force Majuere! Its here! Very high level info

 
Anonymous Coward
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03/05/2020 10:43 AM
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Re: Force Majuere! Its here! Very high level info
Well, if this is true - it applies to every one.

You know, your morygage, student loans, the gym contract you been trying to slip.

5a
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03/05/2020 10:43 AM
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Re: Force Majuere! Its here! Very high level info
This could be a soft crash...
making smaller ripples world-wide as financials between US and China vaporize.

China will deny us any more credit, and abandon the $.

American entrepreneurs who can see the slow-motion action here, know what to do.

Gear UP! Massive gear up!

This gives Trump an opportunity to aid and showcase start-ups in the USA.

Globalism presents too much of a National Security issue to ignore it any longer.

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03/05/2020 10:45 AM
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Re: Force Majuere! Its here! Very high level info
Thread: Why hasn't Trump admin partnered with U.S. manufacturers to repurpose plants for masks and other supplies
Anonymous Coward
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03/05/2020 10:50 AM
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Re: Force Majuere! Its here! Very high level info
Folks get familiar with this term. You will be hearing alot about this term!!!! It is not good.

Spoke to a high level auto exec las night. They supply magnetic parts from China to major auto manufacturers. Supply is running out. He used the word Force Majeure!
 Quoting: Oxi moran



[link to www.contractstandards.com (secure)]

"Force Majeure. A party shall not be liable for any failure of or delay in the performance of this agreement for the period that such failure or delay is

beyond the reasonable control of a party,

materially affects the performance of any of its obligations under this agreement, and

could not reasonably have been foreseen or provided against, but

will not be excused for failure or delay resulting from only general economic conditions or other general market effects."

Auto maker says "look, you HAVE TO supply us the parts... work a 3rd shift, open a new line, whatever... we have a legally binding CONTRACT"

Parts maker "I don't know what to tell you... we can't make the parts without xyz which only comes from China... only there ain't any because the Chinese all called in sick to work and the cargo boats ain't runnun' no more. Our lawyer says we're off the hook, force majure."
Anonymous Coward
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03/05/2020 10:56 AM
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Re: Force Majuere! Its here! Very high level info
Yup, everyone can default on contracts because, act of God.

Bad bad bad
 Quoting: ^TrInItY^


[link to www.chinalawblog.com (secure)]
Icebear

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03/05/2020 10:58 AM

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Re: Force Majuere! Its here! Very high level info
Folks get familiar with this term. You will be hearing alot about this term!!!! It is not good.

Spoke to a high level auto exec las night. They supply magnetic parts from China to major auto manufacturers. Supply is running out. He used the word Force Majeure!
 Quoting: Oxi moran



You know, this might be what we need to get some of the greentard BULLSHIT out of our vehicles i.e. keep the unleaded gas, the smaller cars, the CDI ignition, radial ply tires, power brakes and steering and a couple of other useful things but otherwise get vehicles back to around 1960. Ever notice that the small cars of 1950 - 1965 or so were a thousand pounds LIGHTER than our present small cars??


[link to images2.bonhams.com (secure)]

Last Edited by Icebear on 03/05/2020 11:01 AM
In SE Tx, not Canada
Anonymous Coward
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03/05/2020 10:58 AM
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Re: Force Majuere! Its here! Very high level info
Yup, everyone can default on contracts because, act of God.

Bad bad bad
 Quoting: ^TrInItY^


but most really don't believe in God
Anonymous Coward
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03/05/2020 11:15 AM
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Re: Force Majuere! Its here! Very high level info
health insurance companies (for those that have it) will probably use this as well, to deny paying any doctor & hospital bills.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78120736


How about life insurance companies?
Torchie

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03/05/2020 11:16 AM

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Re: Force Majuere! Its here! Very high level info
Yup, everyone can default on contracts because, act of God.

Bad bad bad
 Quoting: ^TrInItY^


I guess they only acknowledge God when they need someone to blame.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76760905


torchiepost
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03/05/2020 11:49 AM

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Re: Force Majuere! Its here! Very high level info
So OP, just to be clear, you’re saying that a supplier of parts to the US auto industry can’t get those parts because they are made in China and as a result, the auto manufacturers will invoke force majuer clause to break the contract? If so, wouldn’t said supplier and/or auto manufacturer have to seek another markets to procure the parts in question? Sounds like there were no business continuity plans in place.
 Quoting: cfbuck13


This.

Force Majeure simply means having to take contingency plans because contract fulfillment is not possible due to unforeseeable circumstances.

This could be a good thing for American manufacturing.
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Anonymous Coward
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03/05/2020 11:55 AM
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Re: Force Majuere! Its here! Very high level info
Yup, everyone can default on contracts because, act of God.

Bad bad bad
 Quoting: ^TrInItY^


I guess they only acknowledge God when they need someone to blame.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76760905


:this1:
 Quoting: SomethingBetter


"The Tao(God/Nature/The Way) is not humane, it treats the 10,000 creatures (of which we are merely one) as straw dogs" (ie. expendable units). -- Lao Tzu
MissCleo

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03/05/2020 11:55 AM

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Re: Force Majuere! Its here! Very high level info
Ok so Force Majuere will kill China, deado, and then US start ups will boom.

But what about getting car parts in the meantime?

Does this mean Detroit makes a come back?

Last Edited by MissCleo on 03/05/2020 11:56 AM
Confirmed
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03/05/2020 11:58 AM
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Re: Force Majuere! Its here! Very high level info
Neighbor, good friend, just retired from Ford as head of overseas operations. He said the supply line issue is huge and will impact all industries.
Anonymous Coward
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03/05/2020 12:02 PM
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Re: Force Majuere! Its here! Very high level info
So OP, just to be clear, you’re saying that a supplier of parts to the US auto industry can’t get those parts because they are made in China and as a result, the auto manufacturers will invoke force majuer clause to break the contract? If so, wouldn’t said supplier and/or auto manufacturer have to seek another markets to procure the parts in question? Sounds like there were no business continuity plans in place.
 Quoting: cfbuck13


I say, good!!! American companies should never have put their sole reliability in China. Plenty of good foundries and steel capabilities to be had elsewhere.

Light up what manufacturing capabilities we still have while starting the ball rolling for the build-out of new factories in the USA. This takes time of course, so in the years interim, take that business out of China and I would rather see the business placed to a nearby neighbor like Mexico, which has a lot of capability in this area, while we ramp the build out of our own.
La Listener

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03/05/2020 12:02 PM

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Re: Force Majuere! Its here! Very high level info
Folks get familiar with this term. You will be hearing alot about this term!!!! It is not good.

Spoke to a high level auto exec las night. They supply magnetic parts from China to major auto manufacturers. Supply is running out. He used the word Force Majeure!
 Quoting: Oxi moran


Yes , the Chinese have already claimed as imed this to default on pre existing orders . Not a new term , but new to these modern folks that have a limited vocabulary and use the word fuck.
 Quoting: Anujnymous Coward 75617177


Please speak in words of the group, Phuck Majuere!
Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen. ~Winston Churchill

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Judethz
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03/05/2020 12:07 PM

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Re: Force Majuere! Its here! Very high level info
Yup, everyone can default on contracts because, act of God.

Bad bad bad
 Quoting: ^TrInItY^


That requires proof the virus is natural occurring and not man made....the courts/lawyers will be busy.....
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77699866


9teen Yeah and good luck dealing with the Chinese legal system.
Eggcellently Deplorable
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03/05/2020 12:10 PM

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Re: Force Majuere! Its here! Very high level info
Yup, everyone can default on contracts because, act of God.

Bad bad bad
 Quoting: ^TrInItY^


but most really don't believe in God
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78554674




Well, unless HE can help them get out of a contract! Just waiting for the day when some lawyer figures out how to subpoena The Lord!
"I have come to the conclusion that all news should be treated like 9/11, assume it is a psyop with actors participating in a staged event complete with props, until proven otherwise, in which case assume whatever is being recorded, reported, televised, is distortions/lying by omission/outright lies, until proven otherwise." - Anonymous, 4-13-12
Hitokiri

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03/05/2020 12:13 PM

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Re: Force Majuere! Its here! Very high level info
Yup, everyone can default on contracts because, act of God.

Bad bad bad
 Quoting: ^TrInItY^


I guess they only acknowledge God when they need someone to blame.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76760905


They will admit it was a bio weapon now because of this.
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Anonymous Coward
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03/05/2020 12:13 PM
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Re: Force Majuere! Its here! Very high level info
Our past leaders/destroyers are laughing.
Their plan to destroy us is partially working.
IseeThr0ughBS

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03/05/2020 12:18 PM
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Re: Force Majuere! Its here! Very high level info
Interesting.

If/when India gets hit a LOT of Cloud/SaaS computer hosting operations and tech support will be suspended or halted which would cripple a lot of companies using those services.

Better hope their disaster recovery and support safeguards are in effective or the shit is really going to hit the fan.
 Quoting: Billy Ringo


If it was going to hit India it already would have by now. It’s too open of a country to hide the virus. There would be videos of funeral pyres and bodies floating down the Ganges etc but there haven’t been.
FOOLIO
darth

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03/05/2020 12:31 PM

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Re: Force Majuere! Its here! Very high level info
time to change the global supply chain so it works.. time to bring jobs home.
 Quoting: Rosicrucian1 78569787


I own a small manufacturing company and have been thinking of how we can adjust to continue production despite the pandemic.

At my company I have mandated that all wear masks, gloves, and eye protection at all times.

Plus, no employee can work within 6 feet of another employee to prevent airborne spread. We keep all the exhaust fans running at all times.

Disinfect door knobs, light switches, etc. often using bleach solution. Toilets are disinfected after each use.

Employees eat lunch outside in their cars or sitting outside. Bring lunches from home and do not purchase from restaurants.

Sterilize all incoming paperwork such as Purchase Orders and shipping docs by baking.

Just occurred to me to forbid wearing street shoes in the office.
Lester
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03/05/2020 12:33 PM
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Re: Force Majuere! Its here! Very high level info
Covid-19 is evidently going to be the economic and social reset catalyst.

It ain't an Act Of God, because its genome proves it was bio-engineered; but TPTB will just agree to overlook this, afterall, it was their baby...

So what happens now?
Virtually ALL insurance contracts for life benefits, disability benefits, accidental death, derivatives, and other performances that cannot be performed due to the virus or virus effects become non-enforceable.

So, physician who was paying $800 per month for their $15k per month individual disability policy which indemnified them if they could not perform their medical specialty is just outaluck... Trial lawyer unable to work because of courtroom shutdown is again outaluck.

NONE of these highflying income producers are operating independent of bank financing. Their practice groups are all financing the ups/downs of normal, irregular cash-flow to optimize income for operations and to pay salaries. Many of these groups have shareholder pledged collateral. Bankers may windup with the collateral within 60-90 days if finance note payments lag.

How many expensive suburb homes are pledged to banks? Lots... How many practice groups were too busy making money to pressure bankers after their initial startup years to remove individual collateral terms from their financing agreements? Most...

Consider that many practice groups hire cheap help to administer their businesses. Doctors especially.


Force Majeur will not only affect inter-corporate contracts of businesses, but likely a great number of all but the longest established and biggest professional groups. Top engineering, legal, medical and accounting firms might be positioned to avoid having their financing called; but THE COVID-19's Purpose Is To Be A Culling Agent... And Force Majeur gives free-reign to call in loans and deny benefit payments that so many relied upon...

Top Insurers like Guardian, NML, Mass Mut, Unum insured so many physicians and other top-level professionals. Perhaps insureds denied benes under Force Majeur will receive return of their premiums, but doubtful that any will receive full benefits without some kind of Govt Bailout.

How many insurers will survive financially and how will state rehabilitation for problem firms work if all firms are impacted severely. If you don't got an income, how do you continue your premium payments? If your firm is offline for so many months, does your banker continue loaning you money even if your facing huge client and income losses? Probably Not!

We're facing an Economic Collapse situation.
Force Majeur is simply going to allow much fewer lawsuits to clog the courts for the next 20yrs in its aftermath.

This is how you get your reset... Or how THEY Agreed to make it work... You Know Who the They are... It's a Big Club, and you're not in it...
hankie
Everything

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03/05/2020 12:38 PM

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Re: Force Majuere! Its here! Very high level info
Do you remember NAFTA and then GAT or whatever the one Bush hand congress passed, sold us all out to China, everything comes from China, our medicine and other thing today? This is what Trump was talking about, being at the mercy of China!
They can learn to make it, and yes you can get things elsewhere it just that China has had a lock on this trade mostly.

All our manufacturers nearly all went to Mexico first then to some other place then to China! Most of the clothes the shoes etc were made by slave labor after the Chinese who were here begging them not to do business with them because they would use slave labor which they did. Their idea was they would become just as these other countries were, no because the military communist controls the country.

Who knows maybe something will make them suddenly kind to their people, as my dad always said, mights (mites) grows on trees.

You never say never though. If it doesn't work, and things fall maybe they will change. They had a war and communist fought the Japanese and their Empire was gone after the war, communist came in and their life was not better, the common people of China's life was not better.

So, now the US needs to do somethings again for ourselves, it been set up before and can be reset up. Clinton should be bull whipped for starting this mess, and yes he push the democrat congress who really were leery of the trade deal, he said they could revisit it it didn't happen because they lost the next election and the new ones forgot the problems.

I blame everyone that did not change it right away, we lost the jobs that put the made it so lower middle income could save and send their children to college these same children were told to learn computer coding, then that was taken with the Visa entries too, just as they are still doing to other works, they had to train their replacement, in other words, it was cheaper to either send the jobs overseas or bring workers who worked cheap here. These had to be trained.

You have to know, sooner or later this has to come about, we won't have a country, we sure have enemies in our country who are communist themselves.
Sorry I got a headache

These are the times that tries men's and
women's souls!

May we come though it victorious!
Mayor of Simpleton

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03/05/2020 12:39 PM
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Re: Force Majuere! Its here! Very high level info
...and, unless the contract spells it out, the purchaser isn't entitled to a refund of any monies paid.

MoS
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
MissCleo

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03/05/2020 12:47 PM

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Re: Force Majuere! Its here! Very high level info
Yup, everyone can default on contracts because, act of God.

Bad bad bad
 Quoting: ^TrInItY^


I guess they only acknowledge God when they need someone to blame.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76760905


They will admit it was a bio weapon now because of this.
 Quoting: Hitokiri


ahhh. yes. and then they can name the terrorism element.
MissCleo

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03/05/2020 12:48 PM

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Re: Force Majuere! Its here! Very high level info
Covid-19 is evidently going to be the economic and social reset catalyst.

It ain't an Act Of God, because its genome proves it was bio-engineered; but TPTB will just agree to overlook this, afterall, it was their baby...

So what happens now?
Virtually ALL insurance contracts for life benefits, disability benefits, accidental death, derivatives, and other performances that cannot be performed due to the virus or virus effects become non-enforceable.

So, physician who was paying $800 per month for their $15k per month individual disability policy which indemnified them if they could not perform their medical specialty is just outaluck... Trial lawyer unable to work because of courtroom shutdown is again outaluck.

NONE of these highflying income producers are operating independent of bank financing. Their practice groups are all financing the ups/downs of normal, irregular cash-flow to optimize income for operations and to pay salaries. Many of these groups have shareholder pledged collateral. Bankers may windup with the collateral within 60-90 days if finance note payments lag.

How many expensive suburb homes are pledged to banks? Lots... How many practice groups were too busy making money to pressure bankers after their initial startup years to remove individual collateral terms from their financing agreements? Most...

Consider that many practice groups hire cheap help to administer their businesses. Doctors especially.


Force Majeur will not only affect inter-corporate contracts of businesses, but likely a great number of all but the longest established and biggest professional groups. Top engineering, legal, medical and accounting firms might be positioned to avoid having their financing called; but THE COVID-19's Purpose Is To Be A Culling Agent... And Force Majeur gives free-reign to call in loans and deny benefit payments that so many relied upon...

Top Insurers like Guardian, NML, Mass Mut, Unum insured so many physicians and other top-level professionals. Perhaps insureds denied benes under Force Majeur will receive return of their premiums, but doubtful that any will receive full benefits without some kind of Govt Bailout.

How many insurers will survive financially and how will state rehabilitation for problem firms work if all firms are impacted severely. If you don't got an income, how do you continue your premium payments? If your firm is offline for so many months, does your banker continue loaning you money even if your facing huge client and income losses? Probably Not!

We're facing an Economic Collapse situation.
Force Majeur is simply going to allow much fewer lawsuits to clog the courts for the next 20yrs in its aftermath.

This is how you get your reset... Or how THEY Agreed to make it work... You Know Who the They are... It's a Big Club, and you're not in it...
 Quoting: Lester 58915073


unless China names the terrorist element.
Lester
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03/05/2020 12:52 PM
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Re: Force Majuere! Its here! Very high level info
time to change the global supply chain so it works.. time to bring jobs home.
 Quoting: Rosicrucian1 78569787


I own a small manufacturing company and have been thinking of how we can adjust to continue production despite the pandemic.

At my company I have mandated that all wear masks, gloves, and eye protection at all times.

Plus, no employee can work within 6 feet of another employee to prevent airborne spread. We keep all the exhaust fans running at all times.

Disinfect door knobs, light switches, etc. often using bleach solution. Toilets are disinfected after each use.

Employees eat lunch outside in their cars or sitting outside. Bring lunches from home and do not purchase from restaurants.

Sterilize all incoming paperwork such as Purchase Orders and shipping docs by baking.

Just occurred to me to forbid wearing street shoes in the office.
 Quoting: darth



You're only thinking on level 1. Got sufficient inventory of materials on hand, and money in the bank free of any loan contracts or financing agreements?

It ain't so much your ability to continue functioning as it is the parties you rely on. Even if you got plenty money... Will you still have operating funds if bank calls your loans? Think they won't call your loan? While they can get their money back, they will for sure come after it...

Got personal assets pledged as collateral? If you can't pay your payoff in full; adios to those assets.


Order out of chaos... Your chaos, their order.

How about your account receivables? Got much outstanding? Figure you're gonna get paid? Might take years.

How much Retained Earnings you got invested in stocks or bonds, or even real estate? Where else could you put money to earn more than .5% growth per annum? How're those valuations looking at the moment, and can you rideout the market swings we're seeing, much less a longterm adjustment lower? Sure... You HAD Money in the markets, just didn't seize it in time...

How long can you make payroll? If you spend your cash on payroll but have no product demand or capability to deliver product, how you gonna keep generating income?

If your bank has closures, got access to funds somewhere else? You do realize that your funds on deposit are your banks assets and your claim on them is lowest on the bankruptcy creditor totempole...

What's yours turns out to be theirs, and that's why this whole thing is happening...
oniongrass

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03/05/2020 12:55 PM
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Re: Force Majuere! Its here! Very high level info
Folks get familiar with this term. You will be hearing alot about this term!!!! It is not good.

Spoke to a high level auto exec las night. They supply magnetic parts from China to major auto manufacturers. Supply is running out. He used the word Force Majeure!
 Quoting: Oxi moran


Sure, it's obvious that FM would be invoked in a situation like this. When due to forces of nature it's impossible to fulfill the contract, then the party is not obligated.

It's not good or bad, but it is obvious that this is the sort of situation where the FM provisions of a contract could be exercised.
Anonymous Coward
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03/05/2020 12:55 PM
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Re: Force Majuere! Its here! Very high level info
Yup, everyone can default on contracts because, act of God.

Bad bad bad
 Quoting: ^TrInItY^


I guess they only acknowledge God when they need someone to blame.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76760905


hesright
oniongrass

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03/05/2020 12:56 PM
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Re: Force Majuere! Its here! Very high level info
time to change the global supply chain so it works.. time to bring jobs home.
 Quoting: Rosicrucian1 78569787


I own a small manufacturing company and have been thinking of how we can adjust to continue production despite the pandemic.

At my company I have mandated that all wear masks, gloves, and eye protection at all times.

Plus, no employee can work within 6 feet of another employee to prevent airborne spread. We keep all the exhaust fans running at all times.

Disinfect door knobs, light switches, etc. often using bleach solution. Toilets are disinfected after each use.

Employees eat lunch outside in their cars or sitting outside. Bring lunches from home and do not purchase from restaurants.

Sterilize all incoming paperwork such as Purchase Orders and shipping docs by baking.

Just occurred to me to forbid wearing street shoes in the office.
 Quoting: darth



You're only thinking on level 1. Got sufficient inventory of materials on hand, and money in the bank free of any loan contracts or financing agreements?

It ain't so much your ability to continue functioning as it is the parties you rely on. Even if you got plenty money... Will you still have operating funds if bank calls your loans? Think they won't call your loan? While they can get their money back, they will for sure come after it...

Got personal assets pledged as collateral? If you can't pay your payoff in full; adios to those assets.


Order out of chaos... Your chaos, their order.

How about your account receivables? Got much outstanding? Figure you're gonna get paid? Might take years.

How much Retained Earnings you got invested in stocks or bonds, or even real estate? Where else could you put money to earn more than .5% growth per annum? How're those valuations looking at the moment, and can you rideout the market swings we're seeing, much less a longterm adjustment lower? Sure... You HAD Money in the markets, just didn't seize it in time...

How long can you make payroll? If you spend your cash on payroll but have no product demand or capability to deliver product, how you gonna keep generating income?

If your bank has closures, got access to funds somewhere else? You do realize that your funds on deposit are your banks assets and your claim on them is lowest on the bankruptcy creditor totempole...

What's yours turns out to be theirs, and that's why this whole thing is happening...
 Quoting: Lester 58915073

You're saying it's bad to be a debtor but also bad to be a creditor. From a financial point of view, at least one of those statements is probably wrong. Someone loses, someone wins, relative to the position of someone who neither owes nor is owed.





GLP