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OXYGEN Treatment for Covid19 Patients - Not Ventilator Best Treatment

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 74755386
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04/19/2020 09:10 AM
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OXYGEN Treatment for Covid19 Patients - Not Ventilator Best Treatment
[link to www.businessinsider.com (secure)]

"Coronavirus patients are dying on ventilators. It's leading to a debate over the best way to get oxygen into their damaged lungs."


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[link to www.upi.com (secure)]

oxygen therapy has been effective in the treatment of a critically ill patient infected with the new strain of coronavirus in South Korea, local health authorities said Friday.

Jeong Eun-kyeong, director of Korea Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, said one of the remaining 21 COVID-19 patients in the country was still in critical condition this week. The patient's symptoms have been improving after oxygen was administered using a face mask, local news service Newsis reported.

Jeong said the therapy raises the degree of oxygen saturation in the patient through the delivery of high concentrations of oxygen. The therapy does not require the use of a respirator, the South Korean official said.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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04/19/2020 09:13 AM
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Re: OXYGEN Treatment for Covid19 Patients - Not Ventilator Best Treatment
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The fundamental pathophysiology of severe viral pneumonia is acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS).

Non-invasive ventilation is not recommended for patients with viral infections complicated by pneumonia because, although non-invasive ventilation temporarily improves oxygenation and reduces the work of breathing in these patients, this method does not necessarily change the natural disease course.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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04/19/2020 09:17 AM
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Re: OXYGEN Treatment for Covid19 Patients - Not Ventilator Best Treatment
[link to clinicaltrials.gov (secure)]

Study Description
Go to
Brief Summary:

All patients with COVID-19 were divided into three groups according to their illness: mild patient who receive conventional oxygen therapy, severe patients who receive nasal high flow oxygen inhalation or non-invasive positive pressure ventilation,all the oxygen therapy will be used as part of the standard of care.

Each group will enroll 10 patients, the treatment of all patients will be continuously optimized during observation, and the incidence of respiratory failure, intubation rate, 28 day mortality rate, ICU hospitalization days, etc will be recorded and analyzed so to optimize the treatment time window of sequential oxygen therapy
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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04/19/2020 10:15 AM
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Re: OXYGEN Treatment for Covid19 Patients - Not Ventilator Best Treatment
Using high-flow oxygen as an alternative to ventilation had been gaining popularity before the coronavirus outbreak, Levy said. The problem is that pumping a lot of oxygen can help the coronavirus spread more readily in patient rooms.


Placing patients on their stomachs

Increasingly, healthcare workers are placing patients who are having trouble breathing on their stomachs, in a prone position, rather than on their backs. They're finding that this position, a common protocol for treating patients with ARDS, is particularly helpful for coronavirus patients.

It works by redistributing the blood flow through the lungs, helping better match the airflow to the blood supply and getting patients back up to better oxygen levels.

"We've known for some time that some of those people will do quite well if you place them on their stomach," Martin said.

Doctors are using the position beyond the ICU. Pour, the ER physician at Mount Sinai, said he did it on Wednesday during his shift and saw his patients improve. But it's not a perfect solution.

"It's just buying you time before you have to decide what to do next," Pour said.
When are oxygen saturation levels too low?

Pour said coronavirus patients had an unusual response to the low levels of oxygen in their blood.

He said he'd left patients in the ER who had oxygen levels in the 80s who were breathing fine — but typically they'd be "hungry for breath" or breathing heavily to try to get their oxygen levels back up to 100%.

"The problem is we're not used to seeing this volume of patients with ARDS that are profoundly hypoxic and yet aren't looking sick," Pour said. "It's confusing to us."


That might give staff in the ER more time to talk with patients about what going on a ventilator could mean before intubating them.

The debate about oxygen saturation levels in the blood existed before COVID-19, Levy said. It's unclear what the best oxygenation level is with ARDS and whether or not you need high oxygen saturation.

The anecdotal reports of patients doing fine even with low oxygen saturation are confusing ICU experts too.

"It's hard to pick that apart and understand why that is," Martin said. Often it'll happen in people with chronic lung diseases whose bodies have adapted to not having 100% oxygen all the time. But it's unclear whether that's the case with COVID-19 patients.


"We don't really understand in COVID-19 if it's something that's unique," Martin said.
Sungaze_At_Dawn

User ID: 37197857
Canada
04/19/2020 10:39 AM

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Re: OXYGEN Treatment for Covid19 Patients - Not Ventilator Best Treatment
Before you do the hydroxychloroquine and also B vitamins and anything they have that they've used to help burn victims heal and replace tissue and nerves. They need to stop the virus with the hydroxy and possible HIV type drugs, and safe zinc amounts, but they need to focus on repairing tissue and lungs.

And this is not medical advice, but ventilators are killing. And they have done other things with burn victims, there are studies with B vitamins and a host of other things for repairing tissue and healing.
Anonymous Cowlick

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04/19/2020 10:43 AM

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Re: OXYGEN Treatment for Covid19 Patients - Not Ventilator Best Treatment
[link to www.thelancet.com (secure)]

The fundamental pathophysiology of severe viral pneumonia is acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS).

Non-invasive ventilation is not recommended for patients with viral infections complicated by pneumonia because, although non-invasive ventilation temporarily improves oxygenation and reduces the work of breathing in these patients, this method does not necessarily change the natural disease course.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74755386


I don't understand that last paragraph. Invasive ventilation does not change the natural disease course either. So much doublespeak.
wisconsin

User ID: 78259322
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04/19/2020 11:10 AM

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Re: OXYGEN Treatment for Covid19 Patients - Not Ventilator Best Treatment
.
... the poor information/training the medicals are working with is REALLY SHOWING!!! ... BIG TIME!!! ...
.
.

Our family celebrates The Lord's Feasts:
[link to www.grafted-promise.net]

Fools and the dead don't change their minds. Fools won't and the dead can't.

When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar. You are only telling the world that you fear what he might say. Quoting: CountryWise

Amos 5:13 - Therefore at such a time the prudent person keeps silent, for it is an evil time.
Epic Beard Guy

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04/19/2020 11:16 AM
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Re: OXYGEN Treatment for Covid19 Patients - Not Ventilator Best Treatment
I started using an Oxygen concentrater last night. Today is the best I've felt in days. My O2 sats were in the high 80s and pulse in the high 90s, resting. Getting oxygen to my body has really made a difference. This morning I can keep the O2 up by deep breaths. This virus sucks! I haven't been sick in years. I will not go to a hospital for treatment, but I did go in for the test Friday. Being in the middle of nowhere, I wont get results for a couple more days, but I have all the signs, except lose of taste and smell.
Stay safe, and stock up on Tonic water (with Quinine). Read up on all the threads with natural cures, some of them have science behind them, and I will be trying most of them.
Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
wisconsin

User ID: 78259322
United States
04/19/2020 11:18 AM

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Re: OXYGEN Treatment for Covid19 Patients - Not Ventilator Best Treatment
.
... yes! oxygen concentrators! ... I've been wondering why THEY aren't being used! ...
.
.

Our family celebrates The Lord's Feasts:
[link to www.grafted-promise.net]

Fools and the dead don't change their minds. Fools won't and the dead can't.

When you tear out a man's tongue, you are not proving him a liar. You are only telling the world that you fear what he might say. Quoting: CountryWise

Amos 5:13 - Therefore at such a time the prudent person keeps silent, for it is an evil time.
Epic Beard Guy

User ID: 77993004
United States
04/19/2020 11:18 AM
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Re: OXYGEN Treatment for Covid19 Patients - Not Ventilator Best Treatment
[link to www.thelancet.com (secure)]

The fundamental pathophysiology of severe viral pneumonia is acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS).

Non-invasive ventilation is not recommended for patients with viral infections complicated by pneumonia because, although non-invasive ventilation temporarily improves oxygenation and reduces the work of breathing in these patients, this method does not necessarily change the natural disease course.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74755386


I don't understand that last paragraph. Invasive ventilation does not change the natural disease course either. So much doublespeak.
 Quoting: Anonymous Cowlick


Yeah, I don't know why that would make a difference, but but I'm staying on the Oxygen regardless of lack of effect on the disease progression.
Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
Epic Beard Guy

User ID: 77993004
United States
04/19/2020 11:20 AM
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Re: OXYGEN Treatment for Covid19 Patients - Not Ventilator Best Treatment
.
... yes! oxygen concentrators! ... I've been wondering why THEY aren't being used! ...
.
 Quoting: wisconsin


CPAP machines should do the same thing. I don't have one to try, but I do have an Oxygen concentrator. I wish it was portable, but you just work with what you got.
Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
Epic Beard Guy

User ID: 77993004
United States
04/19/2020 11:25 AM
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Re: OXYGEN Treatment for Covid19 Patients - Not Ventilator Best Treatment
Using high-flow oxygen as an alternative to ventilation had been gaining popularity before the coronavirus outbreak, Levy said. The problem is that pumping a lot of oxygen can help the coronavirus spread more readily in patient rooms.


Placing patients on their stomachs

Increasingly, healthcare workers are placing patients who are having trouble breathing on their stomachs, in a prone position, rather than on their backs. They're finding that this position, a common protocol for treating patients with ARDS, is particularly helpful for coronavirus patients.

It works by redistributing the blood flow through the lungs, helping better match the airflow to the blood supply and getting patients back up to better oxygen levels.

"We've known for some time that some of those people will do quite well if you place them on their stomach," Martin said.

Doctors are using the position beyond the ICU. Pour, the ER physician at Mount Sinai, said he did it on Wednesday during his shift and saw his patients improve. But it's not a perfect solution.

"It's just buying you time before you have to decide what to do next," Pour said.
When are oxygen saturation levels too low?

Pour said coronavirus patients had an unusual response to the low levels of oxygen in their blood.

He said he'd left patients in the ER who had oxygen levels in the 80s who were breathing fine — but typically they'd be "hungry for breath" or breathing heavily to try to get their oxygen levels back up to 100%.

"The problem is we're not used to seeing this volume of patients with ARDS that are profoundly hypoxic and yet aren't looking sick," Pour said. "It's confusing to us."


That might give staff in the ER more time to talk with patients about what going on a ventilator could mean before intubating them.

The debate about oxygen saturation levels in the blood existed before COVID-19, Levy said. It's unclear what the best oxygenation level is with ARDS and whether or not you need high oxygen saturation.

The anecdotal reports of patients doing fine even with low oxygen saturation are confusing ICU experts too.

"It's hard to pick that apart and understand why that is," Martin said. Often it'll happen in people with chronic lung diseases whose bodies have adapted to not having 100% oxygen all the time. But it's unclear whether that's the case with COVID-19 patients.


"We don't really understand in COVID-19 if it's something that's unique," Martin said.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 74755386


From personal experience, When your O2 sats are in the 80s, you may not look sick, but you feel like shit. Deep breaths make it possible to move around, but exhaling causes coughing. All the time, you feel like there is a heavy weight sitting on your chest.
Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe





GLP