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Why the Rapture may be sooner than many people think.

 
freedomsnotfree1

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05/26/2020 01:41 PM
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Re: Why the Rapture may be sooner than many people think.
NONSENSE

WHERE does it say specifically that we MISS tribulation?

It doesn't.

And Jesus even gives us a sequence of events to watch for.

It makes NO SENSE to give such a detailed account ONLY for NON-believers.
 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD


ah... hate to break it to you but there's no "we" to it... you obviously aren't part of the body of Christ or you would know this revelation... but MILLIONS are...

it's like explaining to an atheist there's a GOD... if they don't see it, they just don't...
 Quoting: freedomsnotfree1


You can blabber your nonsense all you want,
but scripture PROVES your doctrine WRONG.

Luke 21:36 "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76772160

A few verses earlier we're told to "look up". WHY?
For the simple FACT that Believers WILL be around when Jesus RETURNS aka the Second Coming.

Luke 21

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.


------------
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.

---------------------------------
Luke 21:36 "stand before the Son of Man".

WHEN does that happen?

The White Throne Judgement
 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD


isn't it possible GOD has revealed things to MILLIONS of believers and opened there eyes to this understanding... but not your's, is that possible?
freedomsnotfree1
Baloney

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Re: Why the Rapture may be sooner than many people think.
...

 Quoting: freedomsnotfree1

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76772160


 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD


 Quoting: freedomsnotfree1


There is no sky god.. this jerk is a figment of imagination pushed thru both Christianity and Islam..

All life has the holy spirit in them. plants included. ... 3rd person trinity.And Jesus has returned and HIS MILLENNIAL REign started 15 months ago. I know this to be fact and no bible quotes will prove a damn thing to me.. because many have been altered.. including that Jesus is God's only son. Yea ones indwelt by the Father when you begin to realize the FATHER IN you and choose to do HIS will instead of YOURS... are ONLY BEGOTTEN SONS OF THE FATHER.

Until you are beings of the MOTHER Holy Spirit. You have been taught terrible wrong about the Holy spirit too.

Humans who are MORAL and have some intelligence as to THINKING are indwelt by a fragment of the Father... this Father is not the dark shit below either.

 Quoting: ALL IS ONE IS ALL


NOPE. I disagree with this post. the "jerk" is the imaginary urantian gawd on the phony spaceship with the phony multiple sons.

NO, Jesus has NOT returned, and NO he is NOT hanging out on your phony spaceship that only you and members of urantia cult get beamed up to.

NO, GOD the father's holy spirit is not "mother". that is new-age crap.

and no, the millennial reign did NOT begin 15 months ago. this is a complete lie.

at the end of the tribulation period, Jesus does physically return to Earth to begin his kingdom. the first order of business is the sheep and goat judgement.

the urantians (goats) who chose to worship satan of nebadon and/or took his mark are judged and sent off to punishment. they do not go into the millennial kingdom.
freedomsnotfree1

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Re: Why the Rapture may be sooner than many people think.
...


ah... hate to break it to you but there's no "we" to it... you obviously aren't part of the body of Christ or you would know this revelation... but MILLIONS are...

it's like explaining to an atheist there's a GOD... if they don't see it, they just don't...
 Quoting: freedomsnotfree1


You can blabber your nonsense all you want,
but scripture PROVES your doctrine WRONG.

Luke 21:36 "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76772160

A few verses earlier we're told to "look up". WHY?
For the simple FACT that Believers WILL be around when Jesus RETURNS aka the Second Coming.

Luke 21

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.


------------
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.

---------------------------------
Luke 21:36 "stand before the Son of Man".

WHEN does that happen?

The White Throne Judgement
 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD


isn't it possible GOD has revealed things to MILLIONS of believers and opened there eyes to this understanding... but not your's, is that possible?
 Quoting: freedomsnotfree1


The "rapture" doctrine started about the same time as "Paulinism".

1800's

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]

That's 1700+ YEARS after Jesus and the Apostles.

another do
 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD


That wasn't the question... the question is...

isn't it possible GOD has revealed things to MILLIONS of believers and opened there eyes to this understanding... but not your's, is that possible?

is that a possibility...? yes or no
freedomsnotfree1
Anonymous Coward
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05/26/2020 06:21 PM
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Re: Why the Rapture may be sooner than many people think.
That wasn't the question... the question is...

isn't it possible GOD has revealed things to MILLIONS of believers and opened there eyes to this understanding... but not your's, is that possible?

is that a possibility...? yes or no
 Quoting: freedomsnotfree1


The reason that poster cannot truthfully answer that question is because his pride will not allow for it.
Some Christians are not teachable.
They will not humble themselves to be corrected.

Or, maybe.. certain men and women are veiled or blinded and unable to see and hear certain things that the Holy Spirit reveals in Scripture.
God may have purposed for them to be left behind.
They could never see or hear what the Holy Spirit revealed.
Was it because they were never truly Born Again?
Did they have pride or a hardened heart?

Since the time is so very short.. until the rapture... that poster will have to decide if he has been wrong this entire time or continue to defend his stubborn position.

He has very little time left.
Anonymous Coward
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05/26/2020 07:17 PM
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Re: Why the Rapture may be sooner than many people think.
Luke 21:34-36 is admittedly a difficult few verses for many bible students, as some proponents of Post-Trib, Pre-Trib, and a Partial Rapture all reference these verses in support of their various positions.

Here's an alternate view of Luke 21:34-36 from a different perspective:

Pastors' Point of View Episode 74. Luke 21:34-36 Shaken or Secure?


[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]

These researchers and teachers believe that Luke 21 is referencing Israel only.

And they also suggest that the Thessalonian believers, some of whom were afraid they were already living in the Day of the Lord (Daniel's 70th Week/the Time of Jacob's Trouble)(due to an errant teaching that came to them by the first Post-Tribbers on record), and that the Apostle Paul had to correct them away from this Post-Trib erroneous teaching in his 2nd letter to them:

2 Thessalonians 2:1-12:

1 Now, brothers, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to him, we ask you
2 not to be quickly shaken in your mind, nor yet be troubled, either by spirit, or by word, or by letter as from us, saying that the day of Christ had come.
3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For it will not be, unless the departure comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction,
4 he who opposes and exalts himself against all that is called God or that is worshiped; so that he sits as God in the temple of God, setting himself up as God.
5 Don't you remember that, when I was still with you, I told you these things?
6 Now you know what is restraining him, to the end that he may be revealed in his own season.
7 For the mystery of lawlessness already works. Only there is one who restrains now, until he is taken out of the way.
8 Then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will kill with the breath of his mouth, and destroy by the manifestation of his coming;
9 even he whose coming is according to the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 and with all deception of wickedness for those who are being lost, because they didn't receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 Because of this, God sends them a working of error, that they should believe a lie;
12 that they all might be judged who didn't believe the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

The "departure" here I believe means the physical departure of Church Age Christians from earth. Here are a couple of articles by Dr. Thomas Ice and Dr. David Reagan that explain this translation question in detail:

[link to www.focusonjerusalem.com]
[link to christinprophecy.org (secure)]

The "Man of Sin" or the "lawless one" is the Antichrist who is revealed after the departure. This will begin the 7 year Tribulation, as the First Seal of the Scroll in heaven is opened by Yahshua(Jesus).

The "One who restrains" is the Ruach Ha'Kodesh(Holy Spirit) that holds back Satan and the Antichrist until the Church is removed. Then His ministry on earth for the Christians will be complete and is then removed. (The Holy Spirit is omnipresent, so will not be gone, but His restraining ministry will be removed.) This will bring an end to the dispensation known as the Church Age. After that happens, then Yahweh(God) begins dealing with Israel again, and the Tribulation begins. And it will look much like the Old Testament dispensation of Law in the Age of Moses again for the final 7 years, the Time of Jacob's trouble, also known as Daniel's 70th Week, or just the 7 year Tribulation.

The above video and links explain further about the Man of Sin and the Restrainer.

To reiterate, the Church and Israel are NOT the same thing. The notion that the Church replaced Israel is a heresy first espoused by the Roman Catholic Church. Today it is called Replacement Theology, and is a grave error. Let no one deceive you by it.

What is replacement theology / supersessionism?
[link to www.gotquestions.org (secure)]
Anonymous Coward
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05/26/2020 07:47 PM
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Re: Why the Rapture may be sooner than many people think.
That wasn't the question... the question is...

isn't it possible GOD has revealed things to MILLIONS of believers and opened there eyes to this understanding... but not your's, is that possible?

is that a possibility...? yes or no
 Quoting: freedomsnotfree1


The reason that poster cannot truthfully answer that question is because his pride will not allow for it.
Some Christians are not teachable.
They will not humble themselves to be corrected.

Or, maybe.. certain men and women are veiled or blinded and unable to see and hear certain things that the Holy Spirit reveals in Scripture.
God may have purposed for them to be left behind.
They could never see or hear what the Holy Spirit revealed.
Was it because they were never truly Born Again?
Did they have pride or a hardened heart?

Since the time is so very short.. until the rapture... that poster will have to decide if he has been wrong this entire time or continue to defend his stubborn position.

He has very little time left.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71793015


I don't know why they don't see it pride, preconceived notions, arrogance ... maybe they're meant for tribulation, I pray GOD will take away their scales, those years will be awful. But, once you see it, you know and so many things begin to fall into place... only the Holy Spirit can do that...

I don't THINK I'm going to be raptured... I KNOW it, as all members of the body of Christ know it... because the Holy Spirit has showed us...

and yes, I believe time is very short, it's all coming together... the blessed hope...
Judethz  (OP)
Israel is Eternal

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05/26/2020 09:36 PM

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Re: Why the Rapture may be sooner than many people think.
NONSENSE

WHERE does it say specifically that we MISS tribulation?

It doesn't.

And Jesus even gives us a sequence of events to watch for.

It makes NO SENSE to give such a detailed account ONLY for NON-believers.
 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD


white4 It's plain as plain can be.

Isa 26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.

Isa 26:21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.
Achduke7

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05/26/2020 09:37 PM

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Re: Why the Rapture may be sooner than many people think.
That wasn't the question... the question is...

isn't it possible GOD has revealed things to MILLIONS of believers and opened there eyes to this understanding... but not your's, is that possible?

is that a possibility...? yes or no
 Quoting: freedomsnotfree1


The reason that poster cannot truthfully answer that question is because his pride will not allow for it.
Some Christians are not teachable.
They will not humble themselves to be corrected.

Or, maybe.. certain men and women are veiled or blinded and unable to see and hear certain things that the Holy Spirit reveals in Scripture.
God may have purposed for them to be left behind.
They could never see or hear what the Holy Spirit revealed.
Was it because they were never truly Born Again?
Did they have pride or a hardened heart?

Since the time is so very short.. until the rapture... that poster will have to decide if he has been wrong this entire time or continue to defend his stubborn position.

He has very little time left.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71793015


I don't know why they don't see it pride, preconceived notions, arrogance ... maybe they're meant for tribulation, I pray GOD will take away their scales, those years will be awful. But, once you see it, you know and so many things begin to fall into place... only the Holy Spirit can do that...

I don't THINK I'm going to be raptured... I KNOW it, as all members of the body of Christ know it... because the Holy Spirit has showed us...

and yes, I believe time is very short, it's all coming together... the blessed hope...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77237285


How many saints are destined for the tribulation?

Answer so many they cannot he counted. What makes anyone who believes they are destined for a pretrib-raptute believe they are greater than the saints of tribulation who cannot be counted?


How many can be counted? Revelation counts up to 400,000,000 horseman so the uncountable saints must he a lot higher like a billion or more.

Rev 7:9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands,

Rev 7:14 And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Last Edited by Achduke7 on 05/27/2020 05:29 AM
Achduke
Judethz  (OP)
Israel is Eternal

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05/26/2020 10:15 PM

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Re: Why the Rapture may be sooner than many people think.
How many saints are destined for the tribulation?

Answer so many they cannot he counted. What makes anyone who believes they are destined for a pretrib-raptute believe they are greater than the saints of tribulation who cannot be counted?

How many can be counted? Revelation counts up to 400,000,000 horseman so the uncountable saints must he a lot higher like a billion or more.

Rev 7:9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands,

Rev 7:14 And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
 Quoting: Achduke7


white5 Yes and the Tribulation Saints are: as you know full well, those who for whatever reason where not right with the Lord, at the time that the Rapture takes place

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Why the Rapture may be sooner than many people think.
That wasn't the question... the question is...

isn't it possible GOD has revealed things to MILLIONS of believers and opened there eyes to this understanding... but not your's, is that possible?

is that a possibility...? yes or no
 Quoting: freedomsnotfree1


The reason that poster cannot truthfully answer that question is because his pride will not allow for it.
Some Christians are not teachable.
They will not humble themselves to be corrected.

Or, maybe.. certain men and women are veiled or blinded and unable to see and hear certain things that the Holy Spirit reveals in Scripture.
God may have purposed for them to be left behind.
They could never see or hear what the Holy Spirit revealed.
Was it because they were never truly Born Again?
Did they have pride or a hardened heart?

Since the time is so very short.. until the rapture... that poster will have to decide if he has been wrong this entire time or continue to defend his stubborn position.

He has very little time left.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71793015


I don't know why they don't see it pride, preconceived notions, arrogance ... maybe they're meant for tribulation, I pray GOD will take away their scales, those years will be awful. But, once you see it, you know and so many things begin to fall into place... only the Holy Spirit can do that...

I don't THINK I'm going to be raptured... I KNOW it, as all members of the body of Christ know it... because the Holy Spirit has showed us...

and yes, I believe time is very short, it's all coming together... the blessed hope...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77237285


How many saints are destined for the tribulation?

Answer so many they cannot he counted. What makes anyone who believes they are destined for a pretrib-raptute believe they are greater than the saints of tribulation who cannot be counted?

How many can be counted? Revelation counts up to 400,000,000 horseman so the uncountable saints must he a lot higher like a billion or more.

Rev 7:9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands,

Rev 7:14 And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
 Quoting: Achduke7

There will be a great multitude of people who witness the event of the rapture, who will not believe the Satanic lies about a mass alien abduction of all the Christians, or the New Age lies about the earth ascending to a higher vibrational state, thus leaving behind all the Christians. And then after seeing the rapture, they realize the Truth of what has happened, and get right with God. When they do, they will become Saints in the Tribulation, aka Tribulation Saints. And most of them will be beheaded for their testimony.

Also others will get saved through the evangelization efforts of those who converted after the rapture, plus the efforts of the 144,000 Israeli virgins who will convert the nation of Israel, or at least a remnant of them. And then there will come the Two Witnesses who will work miracles and do the same. So yes there will be a great multitude who are saved during the Tribulation period. And all of this happens after the rapture of the Church at the end of the Church Age.

Your premise is flawed. Pre-Tribbers don't believe they are any better than anyone. We are all sinners. It's only by grace that we are saved. And it's only by grace that Yahshua(Jesus) will come again to take us home to the place He has prepared for us in heaven. We simply believe what He has promised us, His bride. If this was not the case, He would have told us so. Had He told us something different, we would believe that instead. He spoke it, we believe it. It's a matter of faith.

Many unbelievers and false Christians will witness the disappearance of all the true Christians around the world, and then they will believe. But it will be too late for the rapture of the Church for them, as the Church has already left. Then they will get saved and endure the time of the Tribulation/Daniel's 70th Week/the Time of Jacob's Trouble. And of those new believers, who will be called saints at that time in the Tribulation, who endure to then end, they shall be saved.

And of those new saints in the Tribulation, most will lose their heads, and they will go to heaven since they are saved. And in heaven, they will be given white robes and palm branches. These martyrs will come out of the Great Tribulation (the last 3.5 yrs of the Tribulation) as they are martyred and go to heaven. These will be among the wise virgins who accompany the Bridegroom (Yahshua/Jesus) and His Bride (the Church) into the Wedding Ceremony in heaven. And the foolish virgins, the false believers, will be left outside as the Bridegroom never knew them. Outside of what? Outside of the Wedding Feast in heaven during the Tribulation, and outside of Yahshua's new Millennial Kingdom on earth after His 2nd Coming with His angels and His Bride the Church.
Anonymous Coward
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05/27/2020 12:17 AM
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Re: Why the Rapture may be sooner than many people think.
People that believe in the Rapture are up there with Islamic Terrorists as some of the most insane people on earth.

Learn facts before spewing non-sense. The Rapture was added to the bible in the 1800s. You would think if it had anything to do with Jesus, it wouldn't take 1800 years to be written. The whole bible is nonsense but the Rapture is just LOL.

Someone could add a new doctrine today that says "worship hamburgers" and it would be no less nutty than the Rapture talk.
Servant-of-the-LORD

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05/27/2020 12:21 AM

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Re: Why the Rapture may be sooner than many people think.
There will be a great multitude of people who witness the event of the rapture, who will not believe the Satanic lies about a mass alien abduction of all the Christians, or the New Age lies about the earth ascending to a higher vibrational state, thus leaving behind all the Christians. And then after seeing the rapture, they realize the Truth of what has happened, and get right with God. When they do, they will become Saints in the Tribulation, aka Tribulation Saints. And most of them will be beheaded for their testimony.

Also others will get saved through the evangelization efforts of those who converted after the rapture, plus the efforts of the 144,000 Israeli virgins who will convert the nation of Israel, or at least a remnant of them. And then there will come the Two Witnesses who will work miracles and do the same. So yes there will be a great multitude who are saved during the Tribulation period. And all of this happens after the rapture of the Church at the end of the Church Age.

Your premise is flawed. Pre-Tribbers don't believe they are any better than anyone. We are all sinners. It's only by grace that we are saved. And it's only by grace that Yahshua(Jesus) will come again to take us home to the place He has prepared for us in heaven. We simply believe what He has promised us, His bride. If this was not the case, He would have told us so. Had He told us something different, we would believe that instead. He spoke it, we believe it. It's a matter of faith.

Many unbelievers and false Christians will witness the disappearance of all the true Christians around the world, and then they will believe. But it will be too late for the rapture of the Church for them, as the Church has already left. Then they will get saved and endure the time of the Tribulation/Daniel's 70th Week/the Time of Jacob's Trouble. And of those new believers, who will be called saints at that time in the Tribulation, who endure to then end, they shall be saved.

And of those new saints in the Tribulation, most will lose their heads, and they will go to heaven since they are saved. And in heaven, they will be given white robes and palm branches. These martyrs will come out of the Great Tribulation (the last 3.5 yrs of the Tribulation) as they are martyred and go to heaven. These will be among the wise virgins who accompany the Bridegroom (Yahshua/Jesus) and His Bride (the Church) into the Wedding Ceremony in heaven. And the foolish virgins, the false believers, will be left outside as the Bridegroom never knew them. Outside of what? Outside of the Wedding Feast in heaven during the Tribulation, and outside of Yahshua's new Millennial Kingdom on earth after His 2nd Coming with His angels and His Bride the Church.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76772160


What a bunch of HUMAN theological SCHOLAR BABBLE.

The SAME type of CRAP that CONVINCED folks of the false doctrine to BEGIN with.

NO comparison of what Paul says to what Jesus says.

NOT even ONE single Bible verse.

NOTHING but "scholar speak" - the same type of crap that universities have been spoonfeeding young non-believers for the last 40 years.


whatever

---------------------------------------------------
Just exactly WHO....or WHAT...is "the bride"?

A LOT of people OVERLOOK what is stated in Revelation 21.

Revelation 21

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
---------------
9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:


According to THAT, the BRIDE is New Jerusalem.
I am a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
Servant-of-the-LORD

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05/27/2020 12:24 AM

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Re: Why the Rapture may be sooner than many people think.
How many saints are destined for the tribulation?

Answer so many they cannot he counted. What makes anyone who believes they are destined for a pretrib-raptute believe they are greater than the saints of tribulation who cannot be counted?

How many can be counted? Revelation counts up to 400,000,000 horseman so the uncountable saints must he a lot higher like a billion or more.

Rev 7:9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands,

Rev 7:14 And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
 Quoting: Achduke7


white5: Yes and the Tribulation Saints are: as you know full well, those who for whatever reason where not right with the Lord, at the time that the Rapture takes place

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

 Quoting: Judethz


That's not Jesus talking - that's Paul.

Let's look at this passage.

1 Thessalonians

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.



Notice that Verse 16 is pretty much EXACTLY what Jesus says in His FOUR Gospel descriptions.

Then notice how Paul's verses 15 & 17 match....


Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mark 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Last Edited by Servant-of-the-LORD on 05/27/2020 12:25 AM
I am a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
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Re: Why the Rapture may be sooner than many people think.
If you really think you're going to disappear one day because you're special, you need to be in a special mental hospital because you're insane.
Anonymous Coward
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05/27/2020 01:04 AM
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Re: Why the Rapture may be sooner than many people think.
That wasn't the question... the question is...

isn't it possible GOD has revealed things to MILLIONS of believers and opened there eyes to this understanding... but not your's, is that possible?

is that a possibility...? yes or no
 Quoting: freedomsnotfree1


The reason that poster cannot truthfully answer that question is because his pride will not allow for it.
Some Christians are not teachable.
They will not humble themselves to be corrected.

Or, maybe.. certain men and women are veiled or blinded and unable to see and hear certain things that the Holy Spirit reveals in Scripture.
God may have purposed for them to be left behind.
They could never see or hear what the Holy Spirit revealed.
Was it because they were never truly Born Again?
Did they have pride or a hardened heart?

Since the time is so very short.. until the rapture... that poster will have to decide if he has been wrong this entire time or continue to defend his stubborn position.

He has very little time left.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71793015


^
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Re: Why the Rapture may be sooner than many people think.
If you really think you're going to disappear one day because you're special,
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78919005

That most definitely is not why.
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05/27/2020 01:07 AM
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Re: Why the Rapture may be sooner than many people think.
People that believe in the Rapture are up there with Islamic Terrorists as some of the most insane people on earth.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78919005

I believe the Pre-Tribulation Rapture of The Church of Believers in Jesus Christ by Jesus Christ to Jesus Christ is True.

I love Jesus Christ.

Do you love Jesus Christ?
Anonymous Coward
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05/27/2020 01:11 AM
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Re: Why the Rapture may be sooner than many people think.
There will be a great multitude of people who witness the event of the rapture, who will not believe the Satanic lies about a mass alien abduction of all the Christians, or the New Age lies about the earth ascending to a higher vibrational state, thus leaving behind all the Christians. And then after seeing the rapture, they realize the Truth of what has happened, and get right with God. When they do, they will become Saints in the Tribulation, aka Tribulation Saints. And most of them will be beheaded for their testimony.

Also others will get saved through the evangelization efforts of those who converted after the rapture, plus the efforts of the 144,000 Israeli virgins who will convert the nation of Israel, or at least a remnant of them. And then there will come the Two Witnesses who will work miracles and do the same. So yes there will be a great multitude who are saved during the Tribulation period. And all of this happens after the rapture of the Church at the end of the Church Age.

Your premise is flawed. Pre-Tribbers don't believe they are any better than anyone. We are all sinners. It's only by grace that we are saved. And it's only by grace that Yahshua(Jesus) will come again to take us home to the place He has prepared for us in heaven. We simply believe what He has promised us, His bride. If this was not the case, He would have told us so. Had He told us something different, we would believe that instead. He spoke it, we believe it. It's a matter of faith.

Many unbelievers and false Christians will witness the disappearance of all the true Christians around the world, and then they will believe. But it will be too late for the rapture of the Church for them, as the Church has already left. Then they will get saved and endure the time of the Tribulation/Daniel's 70th Week/the Time of Jacob's Trouble. And of those new believers, who will be called saints at that time in the Tribulation, who endure to then end, they shall be saved.

And of those new saints in the Tribulation, most will lose their heads, and they will go to heaven since they are saved. And in heaven, they will be given white robes and palm branches. These martyrs will come out of the Great Tribulation (the last 3.5 yrs of the Tribulation) as they are martyred and go to heaven. These will be among the wise virgins who accompany the Bridegroom (Yahshua/Jesus) and His Bride (the Church) into the Wedding Ceremony in heaven. And the foolish virgins, the false believers, will be left outside as the Bridegroom never knew them. Outside of what? Outside of the Wedding Feast in heaven during the Tribulation, and outside of Yahshua's new Millennial Kingdom on earth after His 2nd Coming with His angels and His Bride the Church.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76772160


Well-said.

Amen.

clappa
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05/27/2020 01:40 AM
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Re: Why the Rapture may be sooner than many people think.
There will be a great multitude of people who witness the event of the rapture, who will not believe the Satanic lies about a mass alien abduction of all the Christians, or the New Age lies about the earth ascending to a higher vibrational state, thus leaving behind all the Christians. And then after seeing the rapture, they realize the Truth of what has happened, and get right with God. When they do, they will become Saints in the Tribulation, aka Tribulation Saints. And most of them will be beheaded for their testimony.

Also others will get saved through the evangelization efforts of those who converted after the rapture, plus the efforts of the 144,000 Israeli virgins who will convert the nation of Israel, or at least a remnant of them. And then there will come the Two Witnesses who will work miracles and do the same. So yes there will be a great multitude who are saved during the Tribulation period. And all of this happens after the rapture of the Church at the end of the Church Age.

Your premise is flawed. Pre-Tribbers don't believe they are any better than anyone. We are all sinners. It's only by grace that we are saved. And it's only by grace that Yahshua(Jesus) will come again to take us home to the place He has prepared for us in heaven. We simply believe what He has promised us, His bride. If this was not the case, He would have told us so. Had He told us something different, we would believe that instead. He spoke it, we believe it. It's a matter of faith.

Many unbelievers and false Christians will witness the disappearance of all the true Christians around the world, and then they will believe. But it will be too late for the rapture of the Church for them, as the Church has already left. Then they will get saved and endure the time of the Tribulation/Daniel's 70th Week/the Time of Jacob's Trouble. And of those new believers, who will be called saints at that time in the Tribulation, who endure to then end, they shall be saved.

And of those new saints in the Tribulation, most will lose their heads, and they will go to heaven since they are saved. And in heaven, they will be given white robes and palm branches. These martyrs will come out of the Great Tribulation (the last 3.5 yrs of the Tribulation) as they are martyred and go to heaven. These will be among the wise virgins who accompany the Bridegroom (Yahshua/Jesus) and His Bride (the Church) into the Wedding Ceremony in heaven. And the foolish virgins, the false believers, will be left outside as the Bridegroom never knew them. Outside of what? Outside of the Wedding Feast in heaven during the Tribulation, and outside of Yahshua's new Millennial Kingdom on earth after His 2nd Coming with His angels and His Bride the Church.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76772160


What a bunch of HUMAN theological SCHOLAR BABBLE.

The SAME type of CRAP that CONVINCED folks of the false doctrine to BEGIN with.

NO comparison of what Paul says to what Jesus says.


NOT even ONE single Bible verse.


NOTHING but "scholar speak" - the same type of crap that universities have been spoonfeeding young non-believers for the last 40 years.

whatever

---------------------------------------------------
Just exactly WHO....or WHAT...is "the bride"?

A LOT of people OVERLOOK what is stated in Revelation 21.

Revelation 21

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
---------------
9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:


According to THAT, the BRIDE is New Jerusalem.
 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD

So you would like me to offer some bible verses to show you why I believe in the Pre-Trib rapture? And show some comparisons between the 2nd Coming and the rapture?

Sure, I will provide them for your review.

The Pre-Tribulation Rapture View

When dealing with doctrinal issues, sometimes some truths are right there in the Bible in front of our noses, and it's easy for us to understand them. Other truths are more challenging and require us to look at the whole chapter, book, or bible in order to fully grasp the concepts. When any one verse dealing with a particular doctrinal issue appears to stand apart from other similar truths, we should suspect that there may be an interpretive or possibly a translational issue involved that needs further research. I believe the doctrine of the rapture is one such difficult truth.

The word 'rapture' is not listed in the English bible. But it is listed in the Latin Vulgate bible, written by Jerome in the early 400's AD. The word there is ‘rapiemur‘, 'raeptius' or 'rapturo' , which translated into English means 'rapture'. It is found here in the English bible:

1 Thessalonians 4:17
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be *caught up* together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

In English bibles, ‘rapiemur‘, 'raeptius' or 'rapturo' is transliterated into 'caught up'. That happens sometimes during the translation process to try to communicate the point more familiarly.

The original Thessalonian manuscripts however were written in Greek. There were actually no 'English' words at all in the original bibles, including the word 'bible' itself. And the original Greek word for 'rapture' is listed in English script as 'harpazo', which means 'to rapture up into the air', or to 'snatch away'.

It was this original Greek term 'harpazo' that Jerome later translated into Latin as ‘rapiemur‘, 'raptus' or 'raeptius', which was later translated into English as 'rapture'. These terms all mean the same thing: 'to be caught up'.

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Below are some reasons I believe the Pre-Tribulation Rapture doctrine is likely to be the most biblically accurate view:

1. Imminency. We're supposed to look, watch, and wait for Yahshua(Jesus') imminent return. Nothing has to happen before Yahshua(Jesus) returns for us. (1 Thes. 5: 4-6, 2 Thes. 3:5, 1 Cor. 1:7; Phil. 3:20-21; 1 Thes. 1:10; Titus 2:13; Heb. 9:28; 1 Peter 1:13; Jude 21) The non-Pre-Trib positions ALL require certain things to happen 1st before Yahshua(Jesus) can return. Things like the Antichrist's 7 yr peace treaty with Israel, the rebuilding of the Hebrew Temple in Jerusalem on the Temple Mount right on or next to the Muslim Dome of the Rock, the 7 Seals of Judgment, etc. These things destroy imminency.

[link to www.sequenceofprophecy.com]

2. Dispensation of the Tribulation. The Bible states that Daniel's 70th Week/Tribulation/Great Tribulation/Time of Jacob's Trouble/Day of the Lord/Wrath of God are all things related to God's dealing with Israel getting ready to restore it back to His grace. (Deut. 4:29-30; Jer. 30:4-11; Ezek. 20:22-44; 22:13-22) This is not a time for the Church, but a time for "those who dwell on the earth"- meaning non-Christians. (Rev. 3:10; 6:10; 8:13; 11:10; 13:8, 12, 14; 17:2, 8)

3. Dispensation of the Church. The Church is promised to be taken up to the Father's House. (John 14:1-3 Compare this verse with 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18) How can that be if the Church remains here on earth thru the 2nd Coming? Going up to meet Yahshua(Jesus) in the air at the moment He's coming down to finish off the Antichrist and his armies is not the same as the Church going up to heaven. There is no mention of Yahshua(Jesus) going back to heaven in the Bible after His 2nd Coming. And I don't think He's going to open heaven and come down with all His angels just to pick up the Church in the air, then do a mid-flight U-turn & go back up to heaven. Then grab some horses and linens for the Church. Then do another U-turn and come back immediately to finish off the Antichrist. The Bible doesn't say that.

Also the Church is a Mystery. (Eph. 3:1-13; 2:11-22) That means a new Truth has just been revealed. The Old Testament prophets knew nothing about it or it's role in God's plan. But they did know a lot about the Tribulation period. This is further evidence that the two ages: the Old Testament Israel era & the New Testament Church era will not overlap. Right now, the Hebrews and Gentiles are co-mingled in the Church, (Eph. 2-3) but this can't be when you look at God's 70 Weeks program for Israel in Daniel. The two must be separated prior to the beginning of Daniel's 70th Week, which is the beginning of the 7 year Tribulation.

The Church has also been promised deliverance from the TIME of God's wrath. That means, "out of the time period" of the Tribulation. (1 Thes. 1:9-10; 5:9; Rev. 3:10)

4. Time Gap Needed. A time period is needed in heaven to handle some things that will take place with the Church after the rapture.

The Judgment Seat of Christ(or 'Bema' in Greek) needs to happen to Christians in the Church in heaven before they return with Yahshua(Jesus) to the Battle of Armageddon. (2 Corinthians 5:10) This is when they get their rewards for good Christian service (or not)

The Bride of Christ (the true Assembly(Church) has to be in heaven to get ready for the Marriage Supper of the Lamb(Revelation 19:7-10) as I mentioned earlier. They can't do this if they don't go up to heaven before the 2nd Coming.

The 24 Elders around the Throne in heaven appear to be very representative of the Church. If this is so, the Church must be in heaven prior to the opening of the 1st Seal of the Scroll of the Tribulation- the opening kick-off if you will. (Revelation 4:1-5:14) In the New Testament, the elders represent the Church. (Acts 15:6; 20:28) In the Old Testament, the elders were always 24 in number, and appointed by King David to represent the entire priesthood. In Yahshua(Jesus') new Millennial Kingdom, Christians will assume the title of the Priesthood. (Revelation 20:6)

Where are all the mortals? If all the Christians are raptured up at the 2nd Coming of Christ, who will be left to re-populate the earth during the Millennial Kingdom? All the bad guys will be gone because of the Battle of Armageddon and the Wheat & Tares/Sheep & Goats Judgment. Raptured Christians will have immortal bodies and will no longer pro-create. (sorry) But the Bible clearly states that there will be mortal Christians who survived the cataclysm and who would carry on mortal life on earth. (Isa. 65:20-25). And, the Wheat & Tares/Sheep & Goats Judgment would also be impossible if all the good guys were already raptured. There would be no need for a separation of the two groups of mortals. This is an impossible situation for the Post-Tribulation Rapture proponents.

5. The Presence of the Holy Spirit. The 'man of lawlessness'/Antichrist/beast is said to be held back for now. (2 Thessalonians 2:1-12) The 'restrainer of evil'/Holy Spirit (2 Thessalonians 2:6-8) is at work in the Church right now and will leave with it in the Pre-Trib rapture. This will then free the Antichrist to unleash his demonic power on the world soon after, which is the first Seal of Judgment to be opened in heaven after the rapture. The Pre-Trib view is the only view that can work here.
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Re: Why the Rapture may be sooner than many people think.
6. Here are some comparisons between the Rapture & the 2nd Coming:

Rapture: is a translation or resurrection coming where the Lord comes FOR His Church/Bride (1 Cor. 15:51-52; 1 Thess. 4:15-17) and taking her to His Father's House. (John 14:3).
2nd Coming: Yahshua(Jesus) is coming WITH his saints/Church/Bride to set up His Millennial Kingdom on earth for 1000 yrs. (Rev. 19; Zech. 14:4-5; Matt. 24:27-31)

Rapture: is a Mystery, a newly revealed truth (1 Cor. 15:51-54; Col. 1:26) not known to the Old Testament prophets, and making it a separate event from anything they have foreseen. The New Testament talks about the Rapture of the Church and the 2nd Coming.
2nd Coming: was predicted in the Old Testament. (Dan. 12:1-3; Zech. 12:10; 14:4) The Old Testament of Israel just talks about the 2nd Coming.

More comparisons between the two:

Rapture: Translation (changed into immortal bodies) of all believers (1 Cor. 15:52-53)
2nd Coming: No translation of anyone (Rev. 19:11-21, Matt. 25:34) survivors of the Tribulation inherited the 1000yr Kingdom, but with no translation into immortal bodies, Isa. 65:20)

Rapture: Translated saints go up to heaven (1 Cor. 15:51-55, 1 Thess. 4:15-17)
2nd Coming: Translated saints return to earth (Rev. 19:7-8, 11-14)

Rapture: Earth is not judged at that time (1 Cor. 15:53-58, 1 Thess. 4:16-18)
2nd Coming: Earth is judged and righteousness is restored (Matt. 25:31-46, Rev. 19:1-6, 20:4)

Rapture: Imminent and sign-less (Matt. 25:13, Mark 13:32-37, Luk. 12:40, Phil. 4:5, Jas. 5:8, Rev. 1:3, 22:10, Tit. 2:13, 1 Thes. 5:6)
2nd Coming: Follows exact signs and days according to Daniel and Revelation prior to (Matt. 24:15-30, Dan 9:27 & 12:11-13, Rev. 6-18)

Rapture: Is for Believers only (1 Thes. 4:13-18 “For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.”)
2nd Coming: Is for everyone (Matt 25:1-2 the wise and the foolish virgins; Matt. 25:46 the sheep & the goats)

Rapture: Happens before the Day of Wrath (1 Thes, 4:13-18 & 1 Cor. 15:51-55; neither mentions the Antichrist, the 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse, the 7 Seal judgments, the 7 trumpet judgments, the 7 bowl/vial judgments, the Wrath of God, Armageddon, or the wheat/tare & sheep/goat judgments thereafter)

2nd Coming: Concludes the Day of Wrath (Rev. 6-20:4; Matt. 25:31-46; Dan 9:27 & 12:11-13 specifically mention the Antichrist, the 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse, the 7 Seal judgments, the 7 trumpet judgments, the 7 bowl/vial judgments, the Wrath of God, Armageddon, or the wheat/tare & sheep/goat judgments thereafter.)

Rapture: Has no reference to Satan (1 Thes, 4:13-18 & 1 Cor. 15:51-55)
2nd Coming: Satan is bound up for 1000 yrs. (Rev. 20:1-3)

Rapture: Yahshua(Jesus) comes in the air only (1 Thes, 4:13-18)
2nd Coming: Yahshua(Jesus) comes down to the earth (Zech. 14:4)

Rapture: Only Christians see Him (1 Thess. 5:2 He comes “like a thief in the night” so most people won’t know it when He arrives; 1Cor. 15:52 it is said that it will happen “in the twinkling of an eye”, that’s very fast, perhaps too fast to see; Dan. 10:7 Daniel had a vision that no one else there could see; Acts 9:7 the men with Saul could not see what Saul was experiencing), and which news is “comforting” to us believers.

2nd Coming: Everyone sees Him (Rev. 1:7 says “every eye shall see Him” and “everyone on earth shall wail because of Him.”) and they are not happy about it.

Rapture: It’s a joyful and comforting occasion for believers (1 Thess. 4:13-18)
2nd Coming: It’s a terrible day of wrath and destruction for God’s enemies (Rev. 19:15-21)

Rapture: Tribulation then begins (1 Thess. 5:1-11 immediately after Paul’s discussion of the rapture in ch. 4:13-18 he then describes what comes next: the Day of the Lord, sudden destruction, no escape for those people who live in darkness. We are to watch for His rapture and be sober, knowing that we are not appointed to His wrath. That whether we be alive or dead at the time of His rapture, we will then live together with Him. Where will we live with Him? John 14:1-3 in His “Father’s House” in heaven during the Tribulation; Isa 26:20 “Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast”)

2nd Coming: Millennial Kingdom begins (Rev. 20:4 those who were beheaded in the Tribulation for Yahshua(Jesus) lived & reigned with Him for 1000 years. That is the Millennial Kingdom.)

7. Practical Results of a Pre-Trib Rapture. Some people think the Pre-Tribbers have illusions of escapism that will destroy their witness and faith if the Pre-Trib Rapture doesn't play out. They think Pre-Tribbers don't care about anything or anyone because they think they have a 'Get out of Jail Free' card for the Tribulation. However, they might not realize that Yahshua(Jesus) will reward Christians for good service at the Judgment Seat of Christ later in heaven after the rapture. If there is no good Christian service, there may be little or no rewards waiting for them after the rapture.

The fact that Yahshua(Jesus) could return today for us should be a good motivator for living a good Christian life and doing good works for Christ.

Also, knowing that loved ones: friends and family, who aren't Christians will be left behind after the rapture to face the coming cataclysm of the Great Tribulation should be enough to motivate them to try to lead as many people as possible to Christ before it's too late.

If the Pre-Wrath or Mid-Tribulation or Post-Tribulation Rapture view was accurate, a simple study of Daniel's 70th Week would then show you exactly when Yahshua(Jesus) is returning for the 2nd Coming. All you have to do is note when the Antichrist's 7 year peace treaty with Israel is signed, or note just when the Antichrist's abomination of desolation in the new Hebrew Temple happens, and you can compute the exact day of our Lord's 2nd Coming. No imminency there. No need to always live a righteous life there. You could then just sin and sin and wait around until the last day before Christ's return and then repent and be good. Based on my understanding of the Bible, I just don't think it works like that.

8. Yahshua(Jesus) Himself taught about the coming Rapture. “1. Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me. 2. My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.” -John 14:1-3
Where is Yahshua’s ‘Father’s House’? In heaven. He’s going to prepare a place for us in His Father’s House in heaven.
Then what? He will come back for us. That’s the Rapture!
What will he do after He comes back for us, set up His Millennial Kingdom here on earth then? No! He will take us (meaning to go somewhere) to be with Him. Where is He? In heaven. He takes us up to heaven at that time. He doesn’t stick around to battle the Antichrist or to save the world at that time.

Instead, He takes us to our new home, in His Father’s House, in heaven! And after the Bema Seat judgment, and after we get our white linens/robes, and after we get our white horses, and after the 7 yr. Tribulation on earth, THEN Yahshua(Jesus) returns to earth with all His angels, and us believers too on our white horses, to rid the world of the Antichrist, the False Prophet, and all of Satan’s NWO armies. And only THEN does He set up the new Millennium. Only then has ‘Thy Kingdom Come’.

9. Whoever said that everyone must suffer through the Tribulation to be purified?, or to do XYZ good works in the Tribulation to get saved?

Ephesians 2:7-9
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Yahshua(Jesus).
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

What about everyone who has died already who didn't suffer any hardships at all? By some people's definition, they are not saved because they have suffered no great tribulation. That just doesn't make any sense. Yahshua(Jesus) said that we would be delivered from the time and hour of God's judgment to "those who dwell on the earth." His great judgment is for those who have rejected Yahshua(Jesus), not for His children. Satan has given Christians plenty of tribulation over the years, and continues to do so even today.

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Revelation 3:10 (KJV)
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

That is the 'Blessed Hope!'

Titus 2:13 (KJV)
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Yahshua(Jesus) Christ

Maranatha!

Peace.

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Re: Why the Rapture may be sooner than many people think.
:bridec:...……. The days of plenty are over....…….:bridea:

The days of grinding poverty and unimageable hardship are nearly upon us. The Corona Virus is just on of many manmade plagues that can be unleashed upon us at any time. Except for a few, all the rest of our leaders have made their deal with the devil. He wants to drag you down to hell with him, and if you are still here after the Rapture it will be because of your wilful blindness.

You have still been blessed with a little time, so don't waste it. You could get hit by a bus tomorrow and then where would you be?
 Quoting: Judethz


Cunt, your religious scam is over, or I will kill you with my own hands.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78957800

The persecution seems to be getting a little heavy in this thread.
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Re: Why the Rapture may be sooner than many people think.
People that believe in the Rapture are up there with Islamic Terrorists as some of the most insane people on earth.

Learn facts before spewing non-sense. The Rapture was added to the bible in the 1800s. You would think if it had anything to do with Jesus, it wouldn't take 1800 years to be written. The whole bible is nonsense but the Rapture is just LOL.

Someone could add a new doctrine today that says "worship hamburgers" and it would be no less nutty than the Rapture talk.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78919005

Yahshua(Jesus) Himself taught about the coming Rapture.

John 14:1-3:


1. Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God; believe also in me.
2. My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you?
3. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.”


Where is Yahshua’s ‘Father’s House’? In heaven. He’s going to prepare a place for us in His Father’s House in heaven.

Then what? He will come back for us. That’s the Rapture!

What will he do after He comes back for us, set up His Millennial Kingdom here on earth then? No! He will take us (meaning to go somewhere) to be with Him.

Where is He? In heaven. He takes us up to heaven at that time. He doesn’t stick around to battle the Antichrist or to save the world at that time.

Instead, He takes us to our new home, in His Father’s House, in heaven! And after the Bema Seat judgment, and after we get our white linens/robes, and after we get our white horses, and after the 7 yr. Tribulation on earth.

THEN Yahshua(Jesus) returns to earth with all His angels, and us believers too on our white horses, to rid the world of the Antichrist, the False Prophet, and all of Satan’s NWO armies.

And only AFTER THAT does He set up the new Millennium. Only then has ‘Thy Kingdom Come’.

But then again, you don't believe the bible. You are not even a Christian, are you?

So don't worry about what people think about the End Times. Instead, just worry about what happens to your soul after you die. That is the most important question, far more important than questions about the End Times.

What happens after death?


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Re: Why the Rapture may be sooner than many people think.
How many saints are destined for the tribulation?

Answer so many they cannot he counted. What makes anyone who believes they are destined for a pretrib-raptute believe they are greater than the saints of tribulation who cannot be counted?

How many can be counted? Revelation counts up to 400,000,000 horseman so the uncountable saints must he a lot higher like a billion or more.

Rev 7:9 After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could number, of all nations, tribes, peoples, and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, with palm branches in their hands,

Rev 7:14 And I said to him, "Sir, you know." So he said to me, "These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
 Quoting: Achduke7


white5: Yes and the Tribulation Saints are: as you know full well, those who for whatever reason where not right with the Lord, at the time that the Rapture takes place

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

 Quoting: Judethz


That's not Jesus talking - that's Paul.

Let's look at this passage.

1 Thessalonians

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.



Notice that Verse 16 is pretty much EXACTLY what Jesus says in His FOUR Gospel descriptions.

Then notice how Paul's verses 15 & 17 match....


Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mark 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD

God's Kingdom?
freedomsnotfree1

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05/27/2020 05:58 AM
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Re: Why the Rapture may be sooner than many people think.
That wasn't the question... the question is...

isn't it possible GOD has revealed things to MILLIONS of believers and opened there eyes to this understanding... but not your's, is that possible?

is that a possibility...? yes or no
 Quoting: freedomsnotfree1


The reason that poster cannot truthfully answer that question is because his pride will not allow for it.
Some Christians are not teachable.
They will not humble themselves to be corrected.

Or, maybe.. certain men and women are veiled or blinded and unable to see and hear certain things that the Holy Spirit reveals in Scripture.
God may have purposed for them to be left behind.
They could never see or hear what the Holy Spirit revealed.
Was it because they were never truly Born Again?
Did they have pride or a hardened heart?

Since the time is so very short.. until the rapture... that poster will have to decide if he has been wrong this entire time or continue to defend his stubborn position.

He has very little time left.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71793015


I have NO pride.

Yet you Paulinists think that you're someone "special" who gets out of enduring the tribulation.

The "rapture" was "revealed" by the Holy Spirit?

lolatu chuckle laugh lol rofl 1rof1 lmao lolsign

Lot's of folks CLAIM to have the Holy Spirit.

Benny Hinn - Kenneth Copeland and others. Do they REALLY?

Many folks claim to have the Holy Spirit but more than likely don't.

Proof of this is simple.

There are folks who claim to have the Holy Spirit who pray to "the trinity". It's not Biblical. Jesus said to pray to the Father.

There are folks who claim to have the Holy Spirit who say Jesus is Father God Himself. It's not Biblical.

There are folks who claim to have the Holy Spirit who say Jesus IS the Holy Spirit. It's not Biblical.

There are folks who claim to have the Holy Spirit who say Father God is a "demiurge". It's not Biblical.

There are folks who claim to have the Holy Spirit who say Jesus will return on a space ship. It's not Biblical.

There are folks who claim to have the Holy Spirit who speak in "tongues", but yet no one knows what they are saying, which Paul warned about.

See what I mean?
 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD


yes I do, they are lost and don't know it, just like you, but they are convinced THEY know the truth... just like you...

... so YOU think YOU know what GOD has revealed to millions is wrong... but haven't answered this simple question... your amazing arrogance has blinded you...

It's like asking to PROVE GOD exists... some people have been blinded to certain truths...

the question is...

isn't it possible GOD has revealed things to MILLIONS of believers and opened there eyes to this understanding... but not your's, is that possible?

is that a possibility...? yes or no

Last Edited by freedomsnotfree1 on 05/27/2020 07:17 AM
freedomsnotfree1
freedomsnotfree1

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05/27/2020 06:11 AM
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Re: Why the Rapture may be sooner than many people think.
There will be a great multitude of people who witness the event of the rapture, who will not believe the Satanic lies about a mass alien abduction of all the Christians, or the New Age lies about the earth ascending to a higher vibrational state, thus leaving behind all the Christians. And then after seeing the rapture, they realize the Truth of what has happened, and get right with God. When they do, they will become Saints in the Tribulation, aka Tribulation Saints. And most of them will be beheaded for their testimony.

Also others will get saved through the evangelization efforts of those who converted after the rapture, plus the efforts of the 144,000 Israeli virgins who will convert the nation of Israel, or at least a remnant of them. And then there will come the Two Witnesses who will work miracles and do the same. So yes there will be a great multitude who are saved during the Tribulation period. And all of this happens after the rapture of the Church at the end of the Church Age.

Your premise is flawed. Pre-Tribbers don't believe they are any better than anyone. We are all sinners. It's only by grace that we are saved. And it's only by grace that Yahshua(Jesus) will come again to take us home to the place He has prepared for us in heaven. We simply believe what He has promised us, His bride. If this was not the case, He would have told us so. Had He told us something different, we would believe that instead. He spoke it, we believe it. It's a matter of faith.

Many unbelievers and false Christians will witness the disappearance of all the true Christians around the world, and then they will believe. But it will be too late for the rapture of the Church for them, as the Church has already left. Then they will get saved and endure the time of the Tribulation/Daniel's 70th Week/the Time of Jacob's Trouble. And of those new believers, who will be called saints at that time in the Tribulation, who endure to then end, they shall be saved.

And of those new saints in the Tribulation, most will lose their heads, and they will go to heaven since they are saved. And in heaven, they will be given white robes and palm branches. These martyrs will come out of the Great Tribulation (the last 3.5 yrs of the Tribulation) as they are martyred and go to heaven. These will be among the wise virgins who accompany the Bridegroom (Yahshua/Jesus) and His Bride (the Church) into the Wedding Ceremony in heaven. And the foolish virgins, the false believers, will be left outside as the Bridegroom never knew them. Outside of what? Outside of the Wedding Feast in heaven during the Tribulation, and outside of Yahshua's new Millennial Kingdom on earth after His 2nd Coming with His angels and His Bride the Church.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76772160


What a bunch of HUMAN theological SCHOLAR BABBLE.

The SAME type of CRAP that CONVINCED folks of the false doctrine to BEGIN with.

NO comparison of what Paul says to what Jesus says.


NOT even ONE single Bible verse.


NOTHING but "scholar speak" - the same type of crap that universities have been spoonfeeding young non-believers for the last 40 years.

whatever

---------------------------------------------------
Just exactly WHO....or WHAT...is "the bride"?

A LOT of people OVERLOOK what is stated in Revelation 21.

Revelation 21

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
---------------
9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:


According to THAT, the BRIDE is New Jerusalem.
 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD

So you would like me to offer some bible verses to show you why I believe in the Pre-Trib rapture? And show some comparisons between the 2nd Coming and the rapture?

Sure, I will provide them for your review.

The Pre-Tribulation Rapture View

When dealing with doctrinal issues, sometimes some truths are right there in the Bible in front of our noses, and it's easy for us to understand them. Other truths are more challenging and require us to look at the whole chapter, book, or bible in order to fully grasp the concepts. When any one verse dealing with a particular doctrinal issue appears to stand apart from other similar truths, we should suspect that there may be an interpretive or possibly a translational issue involved that needs further research. I believe the doctrine of the rapture is one such difficult truth.

The word 'rapture' is not listed in the English bible. But it is listed in the Latin Vulgate bible, written by Jerome in the early 400's AD. The word there is ‘rapiemur‘, 'raeptius' or 'rapturo' , which translated into English means 'rapture'. It is found here in the English bible:

1 Thessalonians 4:17
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be *caught up* together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

In English bibles, ‘rapiemur‘, 'raeptius' or 'rapturo' is transliterated into 'caught up'. That happens sometimes during the translation process to try to communicate the point more familiarly.

The original Thessalonian manuscripts however were written in Greek. There were actually no 'English' words at all in the original bibles, including the word 'bible' itself. And the original Greek word for 'rapture' is listed in English script as 'harpazo', which means 'to rapture up into the air', or to 'snatch away'.

It was this original Greek term 'harpazo' that Jerome later translated into Latin as ‘rapiemur‘, 'raptus' or 'raeptius', which was later translated into English as 'rapture'. These terms all mean the same thing: 'to be caught up'.

[link to en.wikipedia.org (secure)]
[link to www.raptureready.com (secure)]

Below are some reasons I believe the Pre-Tribulation Rapture doctrine is likely to be the most biblically accurate view:

1. Imminency. We're supposed to look, watch, and wait for Yahshua(Jesus') imminent return. Nothing has to happen before Yahshua(Jesus) returns for us. (1 Thes. 5: 4-6, 2 Thes. 3:5, 1 Cor. 1:7; Phil. 3:20-21; 1 Thes. 1:10; Titus 2:13; Heb. 9:28; 1 Peter 1:13; Jude 21) The non-Pre-Trib positions ALL require certain things to happen 1st before Yahshua(Jesus) can return. Things like the Antichrist's 7 yr peace treaty with Israel, the rebuilding of the Hebrew Temple in Jerusalem on the Temple Mount right on or next to the Muslim Dome of the Rock, the 7 Seals of Judgment, etc. These things destroy imminency.

[link to www.sequenceofprophecy.com]

2. Dispensation of the Tribulation. The Bible states that Daniel's 70th Week/Tribulation/Great Tribulation/Time of Jacob's Trouble/Day of the Lord/Wrath of God are all things related to God's dealing with Israel getting ready to restore it back to His grace. (Deut. 4:29-30; Jer. 30:4-11; Ezek. 20:22-44; 22:13-22) This is not a time for the Church, but a time for "those who dwell on the earth"- meaning non-Christians. (Rev. 3:10; 6:10; 8:13; 11:10; 13:8, 12, 14; 17:2, 8)

3. Dispensation of the Church. The Church is promised to be taken up to the Father's House. (John 14:1-3 Compare this verse with 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18) How can that be if the Church remains here on earth thru the 2nd Coming? Going up to meet Yahshua(Jesus) in the air at the moment He's coming down to finish off the Antichrist and his armies is not the same as the Church going up to heaven. There is no mention of Yahshua(Jesus) going back to heaven in the Bible after His 2nd Coming. And I don't think He's going to open heaven and come down with all His angels just to pick up the Church in the air, then do a mid-flight U-turn & go back up to heaven. Then grab some horses and linens for the Church. Then do another U-turn and come back immediately to finish off the Antichrist. The Bible doesn't say that.

Also the Church is a Mystery. (Eph. 3:1-13; 2:11-22) That means a new Truth has just been revealed. The Old Testament prophets knew nothing about it or it's role in God's plan. But they did know a lot about the Tribulation period. This is further evidence that the two ages: the Old Testament Israel era & the New Testament Church era will not overlap. Right now, the Hebrews and Gentiles are co-mingled in the Church, (Eph. 2-3) but this can't be when you look at God's 70 Weeks program for Israel in Daniel. The two must be separated prior to the beginning of Daniel's 70th Week, which is the beginning of the 7 year Tribulation.

The Church has also been promised deliverance from the TIME of God's wrath. That means, "out of the time period" of the Tribulation. (1 Thes. 1:9-10; 5:9; Rev. 3:10)

4. Time Gap Needed. A time period is needed in heaven to handle some things that will take place with the Church after the rapture.

The Judgment Seat of Christ(or 'Bema' in Greek) needs to happen to Christians in the Church in heaven before they return with Yahshua(Jesus) to the Battle of Armageddon. (2 Corinthians 5:10) This is when they get their rewards for good Christian service (or not)

The Bride of Christ (the true Assembly(Church) has to be in heaven to get ready for the Marriage Supper of the Lamb(Revelation 19:7-10) as I mentioned earlier. They can't do this if they don't go up to heaven before the 2nd Coming.

The 24 Elders around the Throne in heaven appear to be very representative of the Church. If this is so, the Church must be in heaven prior to the opening of the 1st Seal of the Scroll of the Tribulation- the opening kick-off if you will. (Revelation 4:1-5:14) In the New Testament, the elders represent the Church. (Acts 15:6; 20:28) In the Old Testament, the elders were always 24 in number, and appointed by King David to represent the entire priesthood. In Yahshua(Jesus') new Millennial Kingdom, Christians will assume the title of the Priesthood. (Revelation 20:6)

Where are all the mortals? If all the Christians are raptured up at the 2nd Coming of Christ, who will be left to re-populate the earth during the Millennial Kingdom? All the bad guys will be gone because of the Battle of Armageddon and the Wheat & Tares/Sheep & Goats Judgment. Raptured Christians will have immortal bodies and will no longer pro-create. (sorry) But the Bible clearly states that there will be mortal Christians who survived the cataclysm and who would carry on mortal life on earth. (Isa. 65:20-25). And, the Wheat & Tares/Sheep & Goats Judgment would also be impossible if all the good guys were already raptured. There would be no need for a separation of the two groups of mortals. This is an impossible situation for the Post-Tribulation Rapture proponents.

5. The Presence of the Holy Spirit. The 'man of lawlessness'/Antichrist/beast is said to be held back for now. (2 Thessalonians 2:1-12) The 'restrainer of evil'/Holy Spirit (2 Thessalonians 2:6-8) is at work in the Church right now and will leave with it in the Pre-Trib rapture. This will then free the Antichrist to unleash his demonic power on the world soon after, which is the first Seal of Judgment to be opened in heaven after the rapture. The Pre-Trib view is the only view that can work here.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76772160


excellent synopsis ...
freedomsnotfree1
freedomsnotfree1

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05/27/2020 06:20 AM
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Re: Why the Rapture may be sooner than many people think.
That wasn't the question... the question is...

isn't it possible GOD has revealed things to MILLIONS of believers and opened there eyes to this understanding... but not your's, is that possible?

is that a possibility...? yes or no
 Quoting: freedomsnotfree1


The reason that poster cannot truthfully answer that question is because his pride will not allow for it.
Some Christians are not teachable.
They will not humble themselves to be corrected.

Or, maybe.. certain men and women are veiled or blinded and unable to see and hear certain things that the Holy Spirit reveals in Scripture.
God may have purposed for them to be left behind.
They could never see or hear what the Holy Spirit revealed.
Was it because they were never truly Born Again?
Did they have pride or a hardened heart?

Since the time is so very short.. until the rapture... that poster will have to decide if he has been wrong this entire time or continue to defend his stubborn position.

He has very little time left.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71793015


I have NO pride.

Yet you Paulinists think that you're someone "special" who gets out of enduring the tribulation.

The "rapture" was "revealed" by the Holy Spirit?

lolatu chuckle laugh lol rofl 1rof1 lmao lolsign

Lot's of folks CLAIM to have the Holy Spirit.

Benny Hinn - Kenneth Copeland and others. Do they REALLY?

Many folks claim to have the Holy Spirit but more than likely don't.

Proof of this is simple.

There are folks who claim to have the Holy Spirit who pray to "the trinity". It's not Biblical. Jesus said to pray to the Father.

There are folks who claim to have the Holy Spirit who say Jesus is Father God Himself. It's not Biblical.

There are folks who claim to have the Holy Spirit who say Jesus IS the Holy Spirit. It's not Biblical.

There are folks who claim to have the Holy Spirit who say Father God is a "demiurge". It's not Biblical.

There are folks who claim to have the Holy Spirit who say Jesus will return on a space ship. It's not Biblical.

There are folks who claim to have the Holy Spirit who speak in "tongues", but yet no one knows what they are saying, which Paul warned about.

See what I mean?
 Quoting: Servant-of-the-LORD


if you're not proud... answer the question

isn't it possible GOD has revealed things to MILLIONS of believers and opened there eyes to this understanding... but not your's, is that possible?

is that a possibility...? yes or no
freedomsnotfree1
freedomsnotfree1

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05/27/2020 06:21 AM
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Re: Why the Rapture may be sooner than many people think.
bridec...……. The days of plenty are over....…….bridea

The days of grinding poverty and unimageable hardship are nearly upon us. The Corona Virus is just on of many manmade plagues that can be unleashed upon us at any time. Except for a few, all the rest of our leaders have made their deal with the devil. He wants to drag you down to hell with him, and if you are still here after the Rapture it will be because of your wilful blindness.

You have still been blessed with a little time, so don't waste it. You could get hit by a bus tomorrow and then where would you be?
 Quoting: Judethz


Cunt, your religious scam is over, or I will kill you with my own hands.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78957800


threatening to kill someone on the internet is a SERIOUS crime... it should get you a visit... you really are stupid, aren't you...?

seriously hope your IP is turned over to the proper authorities...

Last Edited by freedomsnotfree1 on 05/27/2020 06:55 AM
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05/27/2020 07:00 AM
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Re: Why the Rapture may be sooner than many people think.
I believe the Body of Christ will see tribulation. We are not guaranteed escape from it. We are guaranteed escape from God's wrath. Cowboy up. It's about to get real...

.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 78537463

Luke 21:36

"Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

We will not just escape some of those judgments and wrath. We believers in this Church Age will escape ALL of them, according to the bible.

The only way to be accounted worthy is to have faith and trust in Yahshua(Jesus) for our salvation from our sins. It is His work on the Cross by His Father's grace to us that imparts worthiness to us. It's nothing we could do to earn this "escape".

No one is worthy by their own hand. Only Yahshua is.

We just trust that He will do what He has promised us. Nothing more.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 76772160


I LOVE this!! We are looking for that blessed hope.

hf hf hf
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05/27/2020 07:13 AM
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Re: Why the Rapture may be sooner than many people think.
That wasn't the question... the question is...

isn't it possible GOD has revealed things to MILLIONS of believers and opened there eyes to this understanding... but not your's, is that possible?

is that a possibility...? yes or no
 Quoting: freedomsnotfree1


The reason that poster cannot truthfully answer that question is because his pride will not allow for it.
Some Christians are not teachable.
They will not humble themselves to be corrected.

Or, maybe.. certain men and women are veiled or blinded and unable to see and hear certain things that the Holy Spirit reveals in Scripture.
God may have purposed for them to be left behind.

They could never see or hear what the Holy Spirit revealed.
Was it because they were never truly Born Again?
Did they have pride or a hardened heart?

Since the time is so very short.. until the rapture... that poster will have to decide if he has been wrong this entire time or continue to defend his stubborn position.

He has very little time left.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71793015


Time is short for sure! I was taught post-trib and only last year did I fully embrace pre-trib rapture. After much study and prayer, God revealed the truth and opened my eyes.

What hurts is the hateful condemnation from Christians who don't agree. I think they are not meant to be part of this first blessing. They have a purpose to be left behind.
CELT1

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05/27/2020 07:26 AM
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Re: Why the Rapture may be sooner than many people think.
Repent Pray Then Help One Another Or Stay Cursed As Written...

Those Believing In A Rapture Are Under The Curse Of False Hope...

All Believing They're Better Than Everyone And Will Be Whisked Away...

The Truth You're Self Righteous Hypocrites...

Period...

Last Edited by CELT1 on 05/27/2020 07:27 AM
CELT1





GLP