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ancient phoenicians forefathers of vikings

 
Anonymous Coward
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08/17/2020 04:24 PM
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ancient phoenicians forefathers of vikings
The viking germanic haplogroup I has its roots in the haplogroup J of the ancient phoenicians

Compare phoenician alphabet from which european alphabet is derived to nordic runes

[link to 2.bp.blogspot.com (secure)]

Compare phoenician longboat vs norman longboat

[link to 2.bp.blogspot.com (secure)]

Haplogroup I, which grew out of the broader haplotype IJ. In this sense, the closest to haplogroup I is the J haplogroup.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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08/17/2020 04:38 PM
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Re: ancient phoenicians forefathers of vikings
ANCESTRAL ROOTS OF THE VIKINGS

First, why do we care about the Vikings?

By the 13th century the Norman descendents of the Vikings in Europe had literally gone from being an annoyance to the most powerful force in Christendom. William the Conqueror, a direct descendent of Rollo had conquered England. Southern Italy, Sicily and the Holy Land were all under Norman control, and the Templar Knights had built a commercial empire the likes of which no one had ever seen, visible in the hundreds of castles and churches they erected across Christendom.

Few really appreciate the Vikings and their influence - the English words for four of the days of the week are in fact named for Viking gods or royal figures. Wednesday is named for Woden, the first great god-king of the Norse in Scandinavia. Thursday is named for his son, Thor, and Friday after his wife and Queen, Frigg or Freyja. Tuesday, which I left for last, is named for the Viking god of war and justice, Tyr or Tiw, Tuesday being literally "Tiw's day".

Reading 'Tyr', as the god's name is usually spelled, sent up a red flag in my head when I had become interested in the possible northern Levant (modern Lebanon and Syria) roots of the Vikings, for one of the great coastal cities of Canaan (which the Greeks called Phoenicia) was Tyre.

Is it a coincidence? Are there any other clues that Phoenicia lied in the Vikings' past?

Both are known as having been expert ship builders. Now, I can't really say for sure how many Viking or Phoenician ships actually sported red and white striped sails, or if any of them really did, but both are nearly always represented that way, and the construction of the ships of the two peoples was strikingly similar.

There is a clue which suggests that red and white stripes may well have been employed by the Phoenicians, for the same theme is preserved on the flag of Lebanon as well as the coat of arms of Beruit, a city founded by the Phoenicians (as Berytus).

There are numerous similarities between the pagan beliefs of the Norse of Scandinavia, what we know of them at least, and the Ba'al worshipping sects of ancient Phoenicia (and other parts of Mesopotamia), including the practice of animal or human sacrifice. More conspicuous is the Norse legend of Yggdrasil the 'world tree'. This myth has its mirror in the 'tree of life' found in the mythologies of Sumer and Assyria (which also found its way into those of Egypt, India and even China). A serpent is often associated with the tree, in one of the earliest Sumerian myths Lilitu (the model for Lilith) in the form of a serpent is coiled around the trunk of Innana's tree of life. In the Norse version, the dragon Níðhöggr gnaws at the roots of the world tree, or as described in the Grímnismál (of the Poetic Edda) more serpents "than any fool can imagine" lie beneath it.

It would be a mistake however to think of the pagans who populated the northern Levant and northwestern Mesopotamia in biblical times as "proto-Vikings", for this was a rich cultural fount to which many cultures can potentially trace their roots to some extent. Cases can be made that the Huns, the Franks, even the Etruscans of central Italy share in this heritage. The Phoenicians had trading hubs in Carthage and as far west as Spain, and there is good evidence that this advanced sea-faring people made forays as far as the British Isles.

It might be easier to work backwards from Scandinavia to see how the roots of the Vikings might extend back to the Levant and Mesopotamia.

The Vikings weren't the Vikings when they arrived in Scandinavia from Central Asia, they were the Aesir and companion tribes the Vanir and the Erul. Viking was an Old Norse word meaning sea-expedition, and a vikingr was someone who partook in these expeditions. The word became affixed to the Norse invaders, probably by the Franks, and the name stuck.


[link to redqueenwhitequeen.com]
Anonymous Coward
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08/17/2020 04:40 PM
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Re: ancient phoenicians forefathers of vikings
Viking was a verb for raping and pillaging.
The Gullible Skeptic

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08/17/2020 04:43 PM
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Re: ancient phoenicians forefathers of vikings
Son of Odin
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Truth,Courage,Honor,Fidelity,Discipline,Hospitality,​Self Reliance, Industriousness, Perseverance
Anonymous Coward
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08/17/2020 04:46 PM
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Re: ancient phoenicians forefathers of vikings
The sky is blue
Water is blue
Op. So. The sky is water.

Hurrrr
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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08/17/2020 05:03 PM
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Re: ancient phoenicians forefathers of vikings
Son of Odin
 Quoting: The Gullible Skeptic



SATURN AND RHEA

Greek – Kronos and Rhea

[In Minoan mythology, Saturn was known as the Great Goddess and Rhea was known as the Mistress of Animals. After the Doomsday cataclysm Minoan tradition gave way to Greek tradition. There was no place in Greek tradition for a Great Goddess equal to Kronos but the Mistress of Animals became Artemis (Diana in Roman tradition).]

Roman – Saturn and Ops

Norse (Germanic) – Odin (Wotan) and Frigg

Irish – Elatha and Ethniu for the Fomorians

Elatha and Danu for the Tuatha De Danann

[When Ireland became Christianized its myths were cleansed of any sense of reverence. The Irish gods became legendary heroes, and without a sense of worship it is difficult to gauge how important each deity was. Irish myths that resembled events in the Bible were purged. Irish tradition was also complicated by the legendary Irish penchant for quarreling. The Irish appear to have been divided over the name of Rhea, and two traditions competed with each other. These traditions mocked and appropriated mythical elements from each other. One tradition, the Tuatha De Danann eventually prevailed by killing off the gods of their rivals, the Fomorians. The name ‘Fomorian’ means ‘monster,’ a name almost certainly chosen by the Tuatha De for their rivals.]

Egyptian – Atum and Lusaaset before Doomsday

Osiris and Isis after Doomsday

[Egyptian cosmology is different from other Middle Eastern traditions because Egyptians worshipped the Sun rather than Jupiter. Atum (Saturn) became Ra (Sun) immediately after Doomsday. In other traditions the dynamic between Jupiter and Saturn (see section 8) is clearer because Sun was a lesser deity.]

Sumerian – Enlil and Ninursag (also Ninlil)

Babylonian – Enlil (also Ashur) and Ninlil



Hurrian/Hittite – Kumarbi and Hebat/Hannahannah

[Kumarbi and Hebat/Hannahannah have the right attributes for Saturn and Rhea but there are no stories linking them together as mates. Kumarbi (equated in the ancient world with Enlil and El) bit off the testicles of his father, Anu (Uranus) and became pregnant.]

Canaanite – El and Elat (also Asherah)

Hebrew – El unmarried

[Rhea was considered an Archangel after the Doomsday event (see section 5). Eve (Rhea) and Adam (Saturn) were married in Genesis. Note the similarity between Hebrew ‘Adam’ and Egyptian ‘Atum.’]

Arabian – Pre-Islamic Arabian tradition didn’t go back to Saturn and Rhea

Persian – Zurvan and Mother Goddess (often confused with Anahita)

[Ahriman (Saturn after the Doomsday cataclysm) was the embodiment of evil in Persian tradition. Consequently, Zurvan (Saturn before the Doomsday cataclysm) was theologized into an ineffable concept of time, and the Persian Mother Goddess was left without a mate. She comes down to us poorly defined and without a name.]

Hindu – Brahman and Devi (theologized into Brahma and Saraswati)

Maya – Itzamna and Ixchel

Aztec – Ometecuhtli (Tonacatecuhtli) and Omecihuatl (Tonacacihuatl) before Doomsday

Tezcatlipoca and Coatlicue after Doomsday

[After Doomsday Tezcatlipoca became Black Tezcatlipoca (Jupiter) and Red Tezcatlipoca (Saturn in his new identity). After the Deluge Tezcatlipoca also became White Tezcatlipoca (Quetzalcoatl/Mercury) and Blue Tezcatlipoca (Huitzilopochtli/Mars).]

Inca – Viracocha (also known as Kon Tiki) and Mama Killa (sometimes conflated with Mama Qucha)

Sioux – Ksa and Unk

[Ksa was the primordial deity born from the cosmic egg. However, all we know about Ksa is that he invented language, stories and names, and was an earlier manifestation of Iktomi (Saturn after the nova, see section 13). Sioux tradition had Sky and Earth deities but they did not have a sacred time or place when Ksa reigned supreme. Unk did not like Ksa, but she was clearly Rhea (see section 10).]

Chinese – Huangdi and Leizu

Japanese – Izanagi and Izanami

Hawaiian – Ku and Hina

Rhea was often conflated with Moon. The ancients conflated Rhea because she ceased to exist after the Deluge, and later generations forgot the origin of their mythology. Modern researchers conflate Rhea with Moon because there is no other sphere to consider.

The cosmology of the Golden Age was very simple: There was the sky, which the Greeks of the Golden Age called Uranus. There was Saturn, an enormous disc that filled the sky, and Rhea, a smaller disc that hovered in front of Saturn.

[link to godsandplanets.wordpress.com (secure)]
A R K

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08/17/2020 05:05 PM
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Re: ancient phoenicians forefathers of vikings
bump
~ Ad astra audacter eamus in alis fidelium ~

"Then the lion shall lie down with the lamb and the bear shall eat grass like the ox and the child shall play on the hole of the asp and nothing shall hurt nor destroy in all My Holy Mountain."

[Isaiah 11:6]

~ A R K
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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08/17/2020 07:06 PM
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Re: ancient phoenicians forefathers of vikings
War and Peace: Phoenician Society's Peaceful Foundation and the Deviation Into War

[link to www.phoenician.org]





GLP