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"Non-taxed" cigarette consumption exploding

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 318755
Canada
11/05/2007 09:20 PM
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"Non-taxed" cigarette consumption exploding
ps - no one can afford the regular smokes here anymore. everyone is also buying cheaper beer too. in fact, one discount beer company had scored such a big profit share from one of the Big Two beer companies (we grew up buying 90% of beer from one of molson or labatt - so every beer was also the same price) immediately bought out the discount brewer. people would prefer to keep their regular smokes and regular beer (i've recently switched both after 25 years) but plain economics is forcing their hand. the fact that people are also changing beers too shows the switch in smokes is MOSTLY of economic necessity. when are you gonna fix the rotten state of the economy for the blue collar guys and gals, mr gov accountants and lawyers?

37% of smokers buying illegal cigarettes: Study
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Availability of contraband smokes negates intended health benefits of tobacco taxation, report says

Nov 05, 2007 05:53 PM
THE CANADIAN PRESS
A new study that found one-quarter of Ontario smokers bought contraband cigarettes from aboriginal reserves, costing the province at least $72 million in lost tax revenue, should be a wake-up call to the governing Liberals to crack down on illegal tobacco sales, critics said today.
The study, conducted between January 2005 and June 2006 for the Ontario Tobacco Research Unit, found 37 per cent of Ontario smokers avoided paying hefty tobacco taxes by purchasing their smokes from Indian reserves, while 26 per cent said they had done so in the last six months.

The practice was more widespread in northern Ontario, with 54 per cent of smokers saying they bought cigarettes on reserves. The practice cost the province $72.3 million and Ottawa nearly $50 million in foregone taxes over the 18-month period, said the study, which was released today.

“Taxation of tobacco is an effective policy for preventing and reducing cigarette consumption,” the study’s authors wrote.

“However, the widespread availability of contraband cigarettes can undermine the effectiveness of this policy, negate the intended health benefits of tobacco taxation and reduce taxation revenues.”

Much of Canada’s illegal tobacco comes from the United States and is smuggled onto Indian reserves, the study said. Other illegal cigarettes are manufactured in Canada or are tax-exempt cigarettes intended for Indian reserves.

Such cigarettes are sold for about one-third the price of taxable smokes and sometimes sold even more cheaply on reserves, the study said.

The province should crack down on those selling and manufacturing illegal cigarettes, better enforce tobacco quotas for reserves and encourage Indian reserves to collect their own tobacco taxes, the report suggested.

Michael Perley, with the Ontario Campaign for Action on Tobacco, said the governing Liberals can’t afford to keep ignoring the problem.

“The contraband problem has the potential to undermine the effectiveness of the entire provincial tobacco strategy if it is not brought under control,” said Perley.

Smuggling hotspots and the locations of cut-rate “smoke shacks” are also well known, he added.

“The premier needs to say something about this and make it clear that it is a serious problem.”

The province needs to cut off raw materials to illegal manufacturers and do a better job of tracking the tax-exempt tobacco that is sent to reserves under the current quota system, he said.

The issue needs a co-ordinated approach throughout all provincial ministries and people have to realize that they are breaking the law when they buy cheap cigarettes, Perley added. “None of these are magic bullets in and of themselves, but together, collectively, they are the remedy.”

While some critics are calling for a tough crackdown, Ontario Regional Chief Angus Toulouse said the province has to be careful it doesn’t run roughshod over the rights of Indian communities. Such communities are responsible for policing and are dealing with the issue of contraband cigarettes in their own way, he said.

“They have the jurisdiction,” Toulouse said. “What they require is the time to work with their community members to develop the regulations that make sense at the community level . . . Each one may approach it a little bit differently.”

A poorly thought-out crackdown is destined to “fail at the end of the day” because it wouldn’t have the backing of the community, he added.

Julie Rosenberg, spokeswoman for the Ministry of Health Promotion, said the government is committed to reducing the number of smokers in Ontario by helping them quit and enforcing the province’s anti-smoking laws.

“The sale of contraband tobacco is a complex issue,” she said, noting it is also a federal responsibility. “The government . . . will continue to work with various government agencies at all levels to stop the sale of contraband.”

But Conservative Lisa MacLeod said the Liberals have known about this problem for a while and have done nothing.

“One rule for all is something that needs to prevail,” MacLeod said. “They don’t want to enforce the law but they have to enforce the law and they need to start dealing with it directly . . . There obviously needs to be a crackdown immediately.”
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 320169
Canada
11/05/2007 09:28 PM
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Re: "Non-taxed" cigarette consumption exploding
I'll just point out that for a premium pack of 25 cigarettes in the Toronto area, you can expect to pay about 10$
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 322333
United States
11/05/2007 09:40 PM
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Re: "Non-taxed" cigarette consumption exploding
I got hit with a two thousand dollar tax bill from the state of ohio.

my crime? I ordered cigs online.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 318777
United States
11/05/2007 09:44 PM
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Re: "Non-taxed" cigarette consumption exploding
No place left to hide.
^Omega^

User ID: 29762
United States
11/05/2007 09:46 PM
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Re: "Non-taxed" cigarette consumption exploding
I got hit with a two thousand dollar tax bill from the state of ohio.

my crime? I ordered cigs online.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 322333



?????. How did they catch you??? I get mine online, shipped from Europe, for 12 bucks a carton plus shipping, and have been doing so for some time with no problems.

Fuck the tax man. Bite me suckers.
anonanon

User ID: 272356
United States
11/05/2007 09:50 PM
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Re: "Non-taxed" cigarette consumption exploding
The government wants to have it both ways....ban smoking in places where people want to smoke and then add horrendous taxes onto the products to make all the money they mis-spend.

Same is becoming true for alcohol products. Pretty soon people will be going back to making backyard wines and bathtub gin.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 298368
United States
11/05/2007 09:57 PM
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Re: "Non-taxed" cigarette consumption exploding
RYO
Boomerang

User ID: 299985
United Kingdom
11/05/2007 10:14 PM
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Re: "Non-taxed" cigarette consumption exploding
The UK is taxed to hell and back. Pack of cigarettes here is about 5 GB pounds. People are smuggling the goods in from the Continent because their taxes are much lower. The loophole will probably be fixed soon enough. Can't have tax evasion can we?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 321415
United States
11/05/2007 10:47 PM
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Re: "Non-taxed" cigarette consumption exploding
RYO = Roll Your Own
Less than $1 per pack
tungfumastR
User ID: 65387
United States
11/05/2007 10:52 PM
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Re: "Non-taxed" cigarette consumption exploding
I got hit with a two thousand dollar tax bill from the state of ohio.

my crime? I ordered cigs online.



?????. How did they catch you??? I get mine online, shipped from Europe, for 12 bucks a carton plus shipping, and have been doing so for some time with no problems.

Fuck the tax man. Bite me suckers.
 Quoting: ^Omega^

Hey Omega, ya got a link for that site????
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 108933
United States
11/05/2007 11:01 PM
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Re: "Non-taxed" cigarette consumption exploding
They once had a Boston Tea Party......taxes and lack of representation. They will tax everything you do and everything you like and everything you have. Taxes are feeding the very controllers that are enslaving us.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 108933
United States
11/05/2007 11:02 PM
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Re: "Non-taxed" cigarette consumption exploding
I started growing my own tobacco. There are sites for seeds and curing info. etc.
^Omega^

User ID: 29762
United States
11/05/2007 11:04 PM
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Re: "Non-taxed" cigarette consumption exploding
I got hit with a two thousand dollar tax bill from the state of ohio.

my crime? I ordered cigs online.



?????. How did they catch you??? I get mine online, shipped from Europe, for 12 bucks a carton plus shipping, and have been doing so for some time with no problems.

Fuck the tax man. Bite me suckers.

Hey Omega, ya got a link for that site????
 Quoting: tungfumastR 65387


[link to www.cigoutlet.net.]

Great customer service too. I had a shipment stolen or gone missing. They jumped right on it and replaced the shipment.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 322354
United States
11/05/2007 11:07 PM
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Re: "Non-taxed" cigarette consumption exploding
My husband and i own a big truck and he drives past many indian res. throughout the southwest.

No taxes for us,lower end brands 10 bucks a carton,so he brings me enough to last until next time hes in.

I could never go back to 40.00 a carton again,im sure the tax man will make his way into this little loop hole soon enough and thats it for me,just have to stop smoking.
tungfumastR
User ID: 65387
United States
11/05/2007 11:08 PM
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Re: "Non-taxed" cigarette consumption exploding
Much appreciated Omega, Thanks!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 108933
United States
11/05/2007 11:08 PM
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Re: "Non-taxed" cigarette consumption exploding
I got hit with a two thousand dollar tax bill from the state of ohio.

my crime? I ordered cigs online.



?????. How did they catch you??? I get mine online, shipped from Europe, for 12 bucks a carton plus shipping, and have been doing so for some time with no problems.

Fuck the tax man. Bite me suckers.

Hey Omega, ya got a link for that site????


[link to www.cigoutlet.net.]

Great customer service too. I had a shipment stolen or gone missing. They jumped right on it and replaced the shipment.
 Quoting: ^Omega^
Be careful....some of those super cheap prices could indicate that they are made overseas. I got some once and could tell the difference...they weren't as good.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 322354
United States
11/05/2007 11:12 PM
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Re: "Non-taxed" cigarette consumption exploding
I started growing my own tobacco. There are sites for seeds and curing info. etc.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 108933



Do ya have a link for info?
I would love to be able to do this.
^Omega^

User ID: 29762
United States
11/05/2007 11:24 PM
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Re: "Non-taxed" cigarette consumption exploding
I got hit with a two thousand dollar tax bill from the state of ohio.

my crime? I ordered cigs online.



?????. How did they catch you??? I get mine online, shipped from Europe, for 12 bucks a carton plus shipping, and have been doing so for some time with no problems.

Fuck the tax man. Bite me suckers.

Hey Omega, ya got a link for that site????


[link to www.cigoutlet.net.]

Great customer service too. I had a shipment stolen or gone missing. They jumped right on it and replaced the shipment.
Be careful....some of those super cheap prices could indicate that they are made overseas. I got some once and could tell the difference...they weren't as good.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 108933


They ARE made overseas with a foreign country tax stamp on them, however they are the real thing. No difference in taste at all.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 322343
United States
11/05/2007 11:31 PM
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Re: "Non-taxed" cigarette consumption exploding
Make friends with a Vet who has base privileges...

I'm a Vet without on base access, but a friend does have it.
Sonoma Light Box $20.91 a carton ! Comparable to Marlboros,
but without all the chems ! And, NO TAX !
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 289164
United States
11/05/2007 11:41 PM
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Re: "Non-taxed" cigarette consumption exploding
RYO = Roll Your Own
Less than $1 per pack
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 321415


I bought an injector for $35. A box of 200 tubes is only $2.09. And a bag of tobacco cost me about $6.

Ignoring the cost of the machine, I can 'roll' (really inject) a carton of cigarettes for $2.09 + $6.00.

$8.09 vs. $40+

And it's very easy -- you just fill the tobacco chamber, fit the tube on the end of the machine, and crank the lever... It shoots the tobacco into the tube, and you have a cigarette in less than a second or two. I can do a pack in about 6-8 minutes or so.
NSMystic88

User ID: 321612
Canada
11/05/2007 11:49 PM
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Re: "Non-taxed" cigarette consumption exploding
I spend six bucks a carton ;)
The truth will set you free! :)

TABARNAK!!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 52939
United States
11/05/2007 11:51 PM
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Re: "Non-taxed" cigarette consumption exploding
Tired of paying the sin tax? Just stop smoking. It's that simple. Become a happy non-smoker. I did just that in 1989.
NSMystic88

User ID: 321612
Canada
11/05/2007 11:54 PM
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Re: "Non-taxed" cigarette consumption exploding
Tired of paying the sin tax? Just stop smoking. It's that simple. Become a happy non-smoker. I did just that in 1989.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52939


Happy non-smokers are usually fascists, tend to yell at smokers and proclaim "I am an ex-smoker!"
The truth will set you free! :)

TABARNAK!!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 243825
United States
11/05/2007 11:59 PM
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Re: "Non-taxed" cigarette consumption exploding
How do they catch you. easy, Credit card companies report the sales to them
October
User ID: 312470
Canada
11/06/2007 12:09 AM
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Re: "Non-taxed" cigarette consumption exploding
Tired of paying the sin tax? Just stop smoking. It's that simple. Become a happy non-smoker. I did just that in 1989.


Happy non-smokers are usually fascists, tend to yell at smokers and proclaim "I am an ex-smoker!"
 Quoting: NSMystic88




True dat!! lol




stoner
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 320672
United States
11/06/2007 12:23 AM
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Re: "Non-taxed" cigarette consumption exploding
The tax on cigarettes is nothing but robbing. Those thieves charge the hell out of the peons while they get theirs tax free. Every single politician needs to be booted out.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 284342
United States
11/06/2007 12:48 AM
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Re: "Non-taxed" cigarette consumption exploding
First tea, then alcohol now smokes. The man will never learn.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 289164
United States
11/06/2007 12:52 AM
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Re: "Non-taxed" cigarette consumption exploding
Tired of paying the sin tax? Just stop smoking. It's that simple. Become a happy non-smoker. I did just that in 1989.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 52939


I am tired of you telling me what a 'sin' is... Your methodology is generally the same each time -- throw a tax on something you personally don't like, and throw the proceeds to the 'children'. It's always for those poor children...at first. Then, as the tax is in place for awhile, it is used for all sorts of things other than children.

You try to set yourselves up as protectors of children -- let's tax those horrible smokers and use the money to give free healthcare to children. But as noble as that might seem, it is blatantly unfair. It is not the job of smokers to pay for children. If it is a responsibility for society to pay for children's healthcare, then it is the responsibility for ALL in society -- not just the smokers.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 322389
United States
11/06/2007 01:01 AM
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Re: "Non-taxed" cigarette consumption exploding
I like how the government parasites claim to be taxing cigarettes to benefit the health of smokers, then they talk about how they cannot afford to continue losing the tax revenues gained by taxing the tobacco addicts, whom they know are addicts and will supply a steady stream of income just like the heroin dealers know their "customers" will keep them in the green. What a patiful joke the government has becoome.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 322389
United States
11/06/2007 01:05 AM
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Re: "Non-taxed" cigarette consumption exploding
It appears that hemp farming is now widespread in Canada. So now the government will raid and arrest tobacco growers in Canada(it's illegal) but you can grow marijuana, while in the US you can grow tobacco, but they will arrest you for growing marijuana.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 108933
United States
11/06/2007 08:00 AM
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Re: "Non-taxed" cigarette consumption exploding
How do they catch you. easy, Credit card companies report the sales to them
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 243825
The place I order my cigarettes from doesn't take credit cards....you give them your bank account number and they do an electronic thingy.





GLP