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Experts in Lucid Dreaming: A Question

 
YouAreDreaming

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03/23/2021 09:01 PM
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Re: Experts in Lucid Dreaming: A Question
lucid dreaming comes and goes ... not sure what causes them, perhaps hormones ... it is a very enjoyable experience, non the less - sights, sounds and vivid colors ... even smell and touch ... soooo real and memorable

but I do know what will increase your chances of lucid dreaming... and that is Krill oil (capsules) ... take three or more at bedtime and ... waalaaa Lucid Dreams on demand
 Quoting: Shadow Dance


Lucid or self-aware dreaming emerges when there is activity in the prefrontal cortex during sleep. The first empirical evidence emerged with Dr. Keith Hern and Dr. Stephan LaBerge's research in the late 1970s with eye movements.

What they did is had people when they achieved lucidity in a dream look left and right, left and right which caused their physical eyes to move left and right, left and right. Then researchers started to connect lucid dreamers to PET/EEG monitors and started seeing the activity in the prefrontal cortex when a person was lucid which gave even more emperical evidence. Then along came fMRI which could give detailed brain imaging and showed a dramatic increase in prefrontal cortex activity during sleep with lucid dreaming. It's this research that also lead to a lot of understanding of brain neurology with dreaming and what was different between lucid dreamers and non-lucid dreamers. Which gives us this study.
[link to www.researchgate.net (secure)]

And this study.
[link to www.nature.com (secure)]

From the second study they discovered people who lucid dream more have increased white matter and grey matter density in the prefrontal cortex.

"We additionally evaluated average gray matter density between groups in the two regions of prefrontal cortex and bilateral hippocampus observed by ref.30 to show increases in a “high lucidity” group."

This means more neurons developed for lucid dreaming along with neural pathways. This pattern of white matter and grey matter density shows up in many of the regions of the brain that involve aspects of the dream experience including dream recall.

The correlate between our neurology and our dreams is pretty much covered now since fMRI started to map out the dreaming mind and neuroscientists are starting to see that dreaming is linked to a more developed dreaming mind in those people who frequently dream.

LaBerge's lucidity techniques have been the staple for most people who want to learn how to have them and most of the generic dream guru's out there rebrand his techniques because they are effective. I also present some of his techniques because they work, but make sure he's cited and credited as I greatly respect his contribution to this fun art.

We can actively become lucid in our dreams but it is a skill, and we do develop neurologically along with the skill as we do any skill we learn. This is why I cringe at all the lucid dream in 3 easy steps and all the supplementation advice because dreaming really is an active skill of learning how to dream and the reason why we call it a dream practice, is because it takes practice to become skilled at it.

Where I differ from most is the link to neural pathway development and stunted dream development based on my own practice and having read literally every study on dreaming spanning decades thanks to friends who are dream researchers that send me papers frequently and being a member of the International Association for the Study of Dreams.

I go with stimulation training to address all the deficiencies in cognition with stunted dream development including awareness which as people are finding out becomes very efficient and builds up a long-term dream practice.

Too many people think that just taking a pill is going to help us develop our ability to dream. Sure it might stimulate certain regions of our brain activating aspects of it during sleep but that doesn't mean we will start to develop neural pathway density and neural density as a result of a stimulant. That comes with repetition over time.

Now we are getting into dream incubation devices like the one from MIT which is great, but does that address deficiencies in those who have memory issues, or problems with sensory-replay, or even lucidity? I think it's helpful but there is so much more to our development as a dreamer that often gets overlooked.

for me it's like working out at the gym, if I practice and maintain it, it's there. If I slack off it starts to degrade just like if I stop going to the gym because we have atrophy in these regions that also gets overlooked.

Just train the brain for dreaming and it will evolve with you as you work on it through participation in our already existing 3-5 dreams.
Freefreakshow

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03/23/2021 09:05 PM
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Re: Experts in Lucid Dreaming: A Question
The Hemisync audio for lucid dreaming create amazing results.
Worth the purchase/download..
Freefreakshow
Freefreakshow

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03/23/2021 09:08 PM
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Re: Experts in Lucid Dreaming: A Question
Get the Lucid Dream vaccine.
You only need 3 boosters to be lucid for a whole year.
Yay Gates.
Freefreakshow
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Re: Experts in Lucid Dreaming: A Question
lucid dreaming comes and goes ... not sure what causes them, perhaps hormones ... it is a very enjoyable experience, non the less - sights, sounds and vivid colors ... even smell and touch ... soooo real and memorable

but I do know what will increase your chances of lucid dreaming... and that is Krill oil (capsules) ... take three or more at bedtime and ... waalaaa Lucid Dreams on demand
 Quoting: Shadow Dance


Lucid or self-aware dreaming emerges when there is activity in the prefrontal cortex during sleep. The first empirical evidence emerged with Dr. Keith Hern and Dr. Stephan LaBerge's research in the late 1970s with eye movements.

What they did is had people when they achieved lucidity in a dream look left and right, left and right which caused their physical eyes to move left and right, left and right. Then researchers started to connect lucid dreamers to PET/EEG monitors and started seeing the activity in the prefrontal cortex when a person was lucid which gave even more emperical evidence. Then along came fMRI which could give detailed brain imaging and showed a dramatic increase in prefrontal cortex activity during sleep with lucid dreaming. It's this research that also lead to a lot of understanding of brain neurology with dreaming and what was different between lucid dreamers and non-lucid dreamers. Which gives us this study.
[link to www.researchgate.net (secure)]

And this study.
[link to www.nature.com (secure)]

From the second study they discovered people who lucid dream more have increased white matter and grey matter density in the prefrontal cortex.

"We additionally evaluated average gray matter density between groups in the two regions of prefrontal cortex and bilateral hippocampus observed by ref.30 to show increases in a “high lucidity” group."

This means more neurons developed for lucid dreaming along with neural pathways. This pattern of white matter and grey matter density shows up in many of the regions of the brain that involve aspects of the dream experience including dream recall.

The correlate between our neurology and our dreams is pretty much covered now since fMRI started to map out the dreaming mind and neuroscientists are starting to see that dreaming is linked to a more developed dreaming mind in those people who frequently dream.

LaBerge's lucidity techniques have been the staple for most people who want to learn how to have them and most of the generic dream guru's out there rebrand his techniques because they are effective. I also present some of his techniques because they work, but make sure he's cited and credited as I greatly respect his contribution to this fun art.

We can actively become lucid in our dreams but it is a skill, and we do develop neurologically along with the skill as we do any skill we learn. This is why I cringe at all the lucid dream in 3 easy steps and all the supplementation advice because dreaming really is an active skill of learning how to dream and the reason why we call it a dream practice, is because it takes practice to become skilled at it.

Where I differ from most is the link to neural pathway development and stunted dream development based on my own practice and having read literally every study on dreaming spanning decades thanks to friends who are dream researchers that send me papers frequently and being a member of the International Association for the Study of Dreams.

I go with stimulation training to address all the deficiencies in cognition with stunted dream development including awareness which as people are finding out becomes very efficient and builds up a long-term dream practice.

Too many people think that just taking a pill is going to help us develop our ability to dream. Sure it might stimulate certain regions of our brain activating aspects of it during sleep but that doesn't mean we will start to develop neural pathway density and neural density as a result of a stimulant. That comes with repetition over time.

Now we are getting into dream incubation devices like the one from MIT which is great, but does that address deficiencies in those who have memory issues, or problems with sensory-replay, or even lucidity? I think it's helpful but there is so much more to our development as a dreamer that often gets overlooked.

for me it's like working out at the gym, if I practice and maintain it, it's there. If I slack off it starts to degrade just like if I stop going to the gym because we have atrophy in these regions that also gets overlooked.

Just train the brain for dreaming and it will evolve with you as you work on it through participation in our already existing 3-5 dreams.
 Quoting: YouAreDreaming


Do you seriously type all of these? You have half a book from this thread alone!yoda
Freefreakshow
YouAreDreaming

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03/23/2021 09:18 PM
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Re: Experts in Lucid Dreaming: A Question
Get the Lucid Dream vaccine.
You only need 3 boosters to be lucid for a whole year.
Yay Gates.
 Quoting: Freefreakshow


Actually, I support the conspiracy that there is a war on consciousness and this stems back from WWII with the Vril Society and Hilter when they introduced fluoride into the concentration camps which calcifies the pineal gland, as well as how they changed music from 432hz to 440hz to create noise rather than harmonics in our DNA.

Fast forward with eugenics we have thermal mercury, aluminum salts, formaldehyde and other neural toxic adjuvants in vaccines. A neural agitator in Aspartame and the list goes on. These mind-affecting, mind-altering efforts damage the brain and lowers our IQ. I know people who lost their ability to dream after thermasol mercury which causes pervasive brain damage almost instantly once it breaches the blood brain barrier.

Also why so much negative misinformation is out there on consciousness exploration and dreams.

Now they have mRNA technology that can edit our brains causing even more damage, and even change our thinking patterns entirely so this war on consciousness is raging on and most just take their shots, get chemically lobotomized and suffer the crippling effects when dementia, cognitive decline and Alzheimer's kicks in later on in life.

That's this world... I suspect in the near future our dreams will be AI simulations and not our own once this 4th industrial transhumanist revolution fucks up humanity once and for all.
YouAreDreaming

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03/23/2021 09:22 PM
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Re: Experts in Lucid Dreaming: A Question
Do you seriously type all of these? You have half a book from this thread alone!yoda
 Quoting: Freefreakshow


Well, I am a writer. Plus I want you guys to have real information rather than some bullshit on this topic.
eveningchaos

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03/23/2021 09:32 PM
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Re: Experts in Lucid Dreaming: A Question
The best one I ever had (I might pay good money to have this one again) was a flying dream. I was already flying when I realized I was dreaming and I was downtown about a mile or 2 from my house - flying over the cornfields between my subdivision and town - all of a sudden a thought came to me. I knew I (my body) was asleep on the couch upstairs in the bonus room and I contemplated going inside to look at myself. As I flying I’m literally mulling this thought over - something made me hesitate and then I decided it might freak me out too much so I decided not to. I don’t remember anything after that so I must have woken up. I think the reason I decided against it is because I had always read it was a bad idea to look at yourself in the mirror in a lucid dream (although I have done that since - and yah it’s a lil creepy and distorted, but so are your hands/fingers). I’ve had lucid dreams that were beyond what I could ever describe in this little comment box, but the flying ones are best. I can FEEL the wind, the temperature, I can TASTE food (any kind)...colors are unbelievably vivid. It’s an amazing gift. I don’t have them like I used to - I think I had them more when I was home during the day and slept a LOT (thanks Lunesta). I have them every now and then now but I feel like I’ve kind of lost the fascination with it. Except for the flying ones - I’d give anything to have those more often. You can really train yourself to have more if you have the luxury of a lot of time on your hands but now that I’m working I have other crap to concentrate on.

To this day I wonder what it would have been like if I had decided to go inside the house, go upstairs, and look at my own body sleeping

Last Edited by eveningchaos on 03/23/2021 09:33 PM
YouAreDreaming

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Re: Experts in Lucid Dreaming: A Question
The best one I ever had (I might pay good money to have this one again) was a flying dream. I was already flying when I realized I was dreaming and I was downtown about a mile or 2 from my house - flying over the cornfields between my subdivision and town - all of a sudden a thought came to me. I knew I (my body) was asleep on the couch upstairs in the bonus room and I contemplated going inside to look at myself. As I flying I’m literally mulling this thought over - something made me hesitate and then I decided it might freak me out too much so I decided not to. I don’t remember anything after that so I must have woken up. I think the reason I decided against it is because I had always read it was a bad idea to look at yourself in the mirror in a lucid dream (although I have done that since - and yah it’s a lil creepy and distorted, but so are your hands/fingers). I’ve had lucid dreams that were beyond what I could ever describe in this little comment box, but the flying ones are best. I can FEEL the wind, the temperature, I can TASTE food (any kind)...colors are unbelievably vivid. It’s an amazing gift. I don’t have them like I used to - I think I had them more when I was home during the day and slept a LOT (thanks Lunesta). I have them every now and then now but I feel like I’ve kind of lost the fascination with it. Except for the flying ones - I’d give anything to have those more often. You can really train yourself to have more if you have the luxury of a lot of time on your hands but now that I’m working I have other crap to concentrate on.

To this day I wonder what it would have been like if I had decided to go inside the house, go upstairs, and look at my own body sleeping
 Quoting: eveningchaos


The nice thing about dreaming is unlike going to the gym where you need to burn 45 minutes to get results, it's a cognitive skill that takes place just before we go to bed, then a bit when we wake up so fitting it into a routine can be very slimmed down for the results that can come.

My dream prep is about 15 minutes as I fall asleep, then the review when I wake up but often to busy to write it all down due to career etc.
pool
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03/23/2021 11:45 PM

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Re: Experts in Lucid Dreaming: A Question
A sewing needle, really? Considering there are egyptian ones in display at Louvre, natives used bones, etc.
 Quoting: just a dude


Should you listen to inquiry more than answer? Questions don't need to be a cage.
Don't dismiss your own experience to allow other people’s perceptions.
LTHN.

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03/24/2021 12:47 AM

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Re: Experts in Lucid Dreaming: A Question
I’m surprised nobody has mentioned denatured potato starch for enhanced dreaming. There was a thread on here some years ago about it, I found more info on it and bought some and tried it. It really enhanced my dreams, much more vivid and super realistic. Take one teaspoon with water before bed, it effects the good gut bacteria and affects serotonin levels.

Another supplement is the amino acid Tryptophan, same type of effect as I mentioned above, makes the dreams super vivid , great stuff.

Ps: really interesting thread, I love lucid dreaming.
"A wise man listens to the message and uses his logic and discernment to process it, a fool negates the message by prejudging the messenger."

"He whose centre is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere."
pool
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Re: Experts in Lucid Dreaming: A Question
Ps: really interesting thread, I love lucid dreaming.
 Quoting: LTHN.


Yes, thank heavens! Without dreams where would we be? I often think cave drawings were for lucid dream visions being stimulated for the next day's hunt. Oh to roam in the cave of a dream, following the herds, waking to take a consensus on what we all dreamed and where we would find what we need to survive.
Don't dismiss your own experience to allow other people’s perceptions.
just a dude

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03/24/2021 09:58 AM

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Re: Experts in Lucid Dreaming: A Question
...


sorry, that's BS
 Quoting: just a dude



Prove that it's BS. Here's a research study of many that prove we can problem solve in our dreams. It's a well-documented and studied trait and also self-evident. I mean Rene Descartes even had epiphanies from his dreams.

[link to pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov (secure)]
 Quoting: YouAreDreaming


A sewing needle, really? Considering there are egyptian ones in display at Louvre, natives used bones, etc.

Periodic table, which version?

Gauge theory and Standard model are presented in Japanese millenia old Tantra texts.

Much of quantum mechanics and relativity is in Buddhist thought.
 Quoting: just a dude


What are we arguing about... some dreams have helped people solve problems. That is a fact, it's studied and self-evident for anyone who had a problem slept on it where they found had a solution to their problem in their dream content.

That is the point that I am saying is not bullshit that dreams can sometimes help some people with problem-solving.

I won't say every dream we have is solving every problem or giving us an advanced scientific or theoretical breakthrough as it did for Srinivasa Ramanujan as that is entirely unique to his life and interests.

It would take a person already in an academic study or research to recognize a solution from their dream content that they may not have while awake and then test it out, most wouldn't even clue into the solution if it presented because they would lack any knowledge in that field to see something of value. And I would argue the only reason why the solution did present is they likely were already close to figuring it out through their study and dedication and the dream was just the nudge they needed to have their breakthrough as we dream relative to ourselves and what we do.
 Quoting: YouAreDreaming


Not arguing - mostly for sake of readers who all too often take generalizations at face value.

I would assume that you have progressed beyond the analytical side to actually put things in practice. Unless your purpose is to refine a 'craft.'

When observation turns within, the dream world turns without.
President of TABTX  (OP)

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Re: Experts in Lucid Dreaming: A Question
Get the Lucid Dream vaccine.
You only need 3 boosters to be lucid for a whole year.
Yay Gates.
 Quoting: Freefreakshow


That's funny sh*t right there I don't care who ya are.

So last night was another success in dream recall. Again nothing spectacular to report BUT I was able to recall 2 dreams this time around. Oh & I did eat 2 bananas before bed like a previous poster suggested. Not sure if that made any kind of difference but figured it couldn't hurt. Tonight I'm going to try something different. Going to step it up a notch. Before I go to sleep I'm going to try concentrating on a subject. Something prominent/distinct that I won't overlook while in dream-state. I'm thinking something like my favorite TV show or video game, character... All I'm trying for in this round is for it to materialize in my dream somehow & not so much have complete lucid control over it. Baby steps.
YouAreDreaming

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03/24/2021 12:10 PM
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Re: Experts in Lucid Dreaming: A Question
I’m surprised nobody has mentioned denatured potato starch for enhanced dreaming. There was a thread on here some years ago about it, I found more info on it and bought some and tried it. It really enhanced my dreams, much more vivid and super realistic. Take one teaspoon with water before bed, it effects the good gut bacteria and affects serotonin levels.

Another supplement is the amino acid Tryptophan, same type of effect as I mentioned above, makes the dreams super vivid , great stuff.

Ps: really interesting thread, I love lucid dreaming.
 Quoting: LTHN.


What I've noticed is foods and vitamins that promote better cognition often improve dreaming as well. Trypophan by itself is not sufficient if B3 isn't present as both help promote niacin production and that helps with dreaming.

Potato starch helps with cognition, here is a study on it so not surprised it may help with dreaming as well.
[link to www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov (secure)]

The other area is just getting bloodflow through the brain with 20m of exercise as that helps promote improved cognition as well. A little diet and exercise are not only good for our dreaming but overall well-being.

But like anything learning how to actually dream as a skill won't be accommodated by supplementation as in it won't teach you how to play the piano or the foundations of art but could help improve learning as you go.

At least if you are into active dreaming where you can create and produce your own dream content, that is where the skill comes in.
YouAreDreaming

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03/24/2021 12:11 PM
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Re: Experts in Lucid Dreaming: A Question
Not arguing - mostly for sake of readers who all too often take generalizations at face value.

I would assume that you have progressed beyond the analytical side to actually put things in practice. Unless your purpose is to refine a 'craft.'

When observation turns within, the dream world turns without.
 Quoting: just a dude


I've had problem-solving dreams in my life during high-school and in my career with software engineering, not always but enough that it is noted in my own experiences.

I mostly dream for art and entertainment as I like creating epic dream worlds, or dream vacations to fill the void of things I cannot do here, but can easily do there.
YouAreDreaming

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Re: Experts in Lucid Dreaming: A Question
Get the Lucid Dream vaccine.
You only need 3 boosters to be lucid for a whole year.
Yay Gates.
 Quoting: Freefreakshow


That's funny sh*t right there I don't care who ya are.

So last night was another success in dream recall. Again nothing spectacular to report BUT I was able to recall 2 dreams this time around. Oh & I did eat 2 bananas before bed like a previous poster suggested. Not sure if that made any kind of difference but figured it couldn't hurt. Tonight I'm going to try something different. Going to step it up a notch. Before I go to sleep I'm going to try concentrating on a subject. Something prominent/distinct that I won't overlook while in dream-state. I'm thinking something like my favorite TV show or video game, character... All I'm trying for in this round is for it to materialize in my dream somehow & not so much have complete lucid control over it. Baby steps.
 Quoting: President of TABTX


That's great, it does come back quickly if we just give it some participation and routine. Quite often people want to do the big things that they can't do because someone else can, I like the gym metaphor as an example. Sure it would be nice to just go in and bench 350lbs on your first day at the gym but the foundation and development to do so isn't there so you have to progress towards that goal building up until it's achievable.

Those baby-steps are foundation building to the bigger and more complex achievements you can do with dreaming, as they are for any skill we develop. That's why a foundational developmental approach to dreaming works better than trying to bench 350lbs with that expectation when the reality is it takes a lot of steps to get to that point.
YouAreDreaming

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One more note on dream development, unlike our body which we can see the growth and progress in the mirror. We don't see the neural pathway development of any skill we learn but it is happening over time just like our muscles building over time.

Where we see the results is in the dream content. We see more dream recall, the details and fidelity of the dream state improve, the sensory-replay becomes rich and vivid, we start to become more self-aware and fears start to dissolve and dreams we want become more regular and natural.

I've seen some people go from the wildness of their subconscious with zero dream control, no self-awareness, sensory-perception issues and poor recall to Neo in the Matrix level control within 2-3 weeks of dream training so some adapt really fast, where others I've seen take slower to develop but get results along the way.

Savor each new result and improvement, that's the intrinsic reward of growth when you see your dreaming start to bloom into something you want with all those little gains becoming one solid dream epic.

Last Edited by YouAreDreaming on 03/24/2021 12:27 PM
AlwaysBlazed

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Re: Experts in Lucid Dreaming: A Question
Last night, for the first time in months, I was able to lucid dream for a minute. I used to be able to fly and had great recall where I'd remember multiple dreams from one night and I'd like to get back to that awareness.

Last night, I was walking out of some building about to go down some stone steps and suddenly became aware I was in a dream and remembered this thread. My first though was "what do I do now? Where do I go now that I'm in control?". I started walking down the steps very consciously, I don't know if I had ever been that lucid in a dream before, it's hard to describe how heavy my legs felt. Within seconds, though, I felt a throbbing in my head behind my eyes as if the more I tried to walk, the harder my head had to think and work. In order to stay lucid in the dream it felt like I had to have my eyes as wide open as they could possibly be and it quickly became uncomfortable. Ultimately, I forced myself to wake up because the pressure in my head became concerning but I wonder if it's just like stretching a really tight muscle and the pain subsides over time. I wasn't able to reach this state during any other point of the night.

Obviously I'm not OP but since this thread is here, has anyone else experienced this and are there any tips on working through it? My plan is to just keep trying every night and see what happens.
Johnny Balls

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I was told we can all lucid dream. To train yourself, go to sleep with some marbles or coins in one hand that’s out over the bed edge where it’s a hard surface below.

The crash of It falling from your hand should be enough to wake you up.

Write down your dream. Repeat as many times as it takes to teach yourself to do it without aids.
Johnny Balls
AlwaysBlazed

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Re: Experts in Lucid Dreaming: A Question
One more note on dream development, unlike our body which we can see the growth and progress in the mirror. We don't see the neural pathway development of any skill we learn but it is happening over time just like our muscles building over time.

Where we see the results is in the dream content. We see more dream recall, the details and fidelity of the dream state improve, the sensory-replay becomes rich and vivid, we start to become more self-aware and fears start to dissolve and dreams we want become more regular and natural.

I've seen some people go from the wildness of their subconscious with zero dream control, no self-awareness, sensory-perception issues and poor recall to Neo in the Matrix level control within 2-3 weeks of dream training so some adapt really fast, where others I've seen take slower to develop but get results along the way.

Savor each new result and improvement, that's the intrinsic reward of growth when you see your dreaming start to bloom into something you want with all those little gains becoming one solid dream epic.
 Quoting: YouAreDreaming


I don't know if you have any experience in this area but I have heard that psychedelic compounds (mushrooms, LSD, etc.) 'develop' or I guess 'reopen' or 'stimulate' old, lesser used neural pathways in the brain. I will admit to having used these compounds but my lucid dreaming is trash. Although the following few nights I will wake up with 'profound' thoughts, those will slowly die away as I've had time away from the psychedelic. My dream recall has drastically dropped since smoking cannabis and I have been able to pick it back up when I don't smoke 2-3 hours before bed.

Are these different neural pathways than the ones used for dreams? The brain is capable of so much more than I think we can imagine so I wouldn't be surprised if there were millions with their own individual purpose, but I am surprised that my dream state has deteriorated despite taking substances that are claimed to help develop the brain. Any thoughts?
President of TABTX  (OP)

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Re: Experts in Lucid Dreaming: A Question
One more note on dream development, unlike our body which we can see the growth and progress in the mirror. We don't see the neural pathway development of any skill we learn but it is happening over time just like our muscles building over time.

Where we see the results is in the dream content. We see more dream recall, the details and fidelity of the dream state improve, the sensory-replay becomes rich and vivid, we start to become more self-aware and fears start to dissolve and dreams we want become more regular and natural.

I've seen some people go from the wildness of their subconscious with zero dream control, no self-awareness, sensory-perception issues and poor recall to Neo in the Matrix level control within 2-3 weeks of dream training so some adapt really fast, where others I've seen take slower to develop but get results along the way.

Savor each new result and improvement, that's the intrinsic reward of growth when you see your dreaming start to bloom into something you want with all those little gains becoming one solid dream epic.
 Quoting: YouAreDreaming


I don't know if you have any experience in this area but I have heard that psychedelic compounds (mushrooms, LSD, etc.) 'develop' or I guess 'reopen' or 'stimulate' old, lesser used neural pathways in the brain. I will admit to having used these compounds but my lucid dreaming is trash. Although the following few nights I will wake up with 'profound' thoughts, those will slowly die away as I've had time away from the psychedelic. My dream recall has drastically dropped since smoking cannabis and I have been able to pick it back up when I don't smoke 2-3 hours before bed.

Are these different neural pathways than the ones used for dreams? The brain is capable of so much more than I think we can imagine so I wouldn't be surprised if there were millions with their own individual purpose, but I am surprised that my dream state has deteriorated despite taking substances that are claimed to help develop the brain. Any thoughts?
 Quoting: AlwaysBlazed


I'm far from an expert on the subject, hence the reason I made the thread but I can tell you from personal experience THC is detrimental to dreaming period. Which is unfortunate because I personally enjoy partaking in the Devil's Lettuce. As far as shrooms go I can't say. I haven't done those since I was a teen & I ain't in no hurry to try that crap again. But back to THC, if I don't smoke, my dreams are SUPER vivid. Nothing compared to what I'm trying to get back to but still a drastic difference none-the-less. Memory is probably the main factor there if I had to guess.
Zerubayah

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03/24/2021 02:15 PM
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Re: Experts in Lucid Dreaming: A Question
One more note on dream development, unlike our body which we can see the growth and progress in the mirror. We don't see the neural pathway development of any skill we learn but it is happening over time just like our muscles building over time.

Where we see the results is in the dream content. We see more dream recall, the details and fidelity of the dream state improve, the sensory-replay becomes rich and vivid, we start to become more self-aware and fears start to dissolve and dreams we want become more regular and natural.

I've seen some people go from the wildness of their subconscious with zero dream control, no self-awareness, sensory-perception issues and poor recall to Neo in the Matrix level control within 2-3 weeks of dream training so some adapt really fast, where others I've seen take slower to develop but get results along the way.

Savor each new result and improvement, that's the intrinsic reward of growth when you see your dreaming start to bloom into something you want with all those little gains becoming one solid dream epic.
 Quoting: YouAreDreaming


I don't know if you have any experience in this area but I have heard that psychedelic compounds (mushrooms, LSD, etc.) 'develop' or I guess 'reopen' or 'stimulate' old, lesser used neural pathways in the brain. I will admit to having used these compounds but my lucid dreaming is trash. Although the following few nights I will wake up with 'profound' thoughts, those will slowly die away as I've had time away from the psychedelic. My dream recall has drastically dropped since smoking cannabis and I have been able to pick it back up when I don't smoke 2-3 hours before bed.

Are these different neural pathways than the ones used for dreams? The brain is capable of so much more than I think we can imagine so I wouldn't be surprised if there were millions with their own individual purpose, but I am surprised that my dream state has deteriorated despite taking substances that are claimed to help develop the brain. Any thoughts?
 Quoting: AlwaysBlazed


I'm far from an expert on the subject, hence the reason I made the thread but I can tell you from personal experience THC is detrimental to dreaming period. Which is unfortunate because I personally enjoy partaking in the Devil's Lettuce. As far as shrooms go I can't say. I haven't done those since I was a teen & I ain't in no hurry to try that crap again. But back to THC, if I don't smoke, my dreams are SUPER vivid. Nothing compared to what I'm trying to get back to but still a drastic difference none-the-less. Memory is probably the main factor there if I had to guess.
 Quoting: President of TABTX


I find the dream suppression to be a blessing more than a detriment. It's hard to ever feel rested when the first thing after you wake up every morning it feels as if you've been running around doing who knows what all night... even if the specific details quickly fade from memory the general knowledge of the breadth of activities does not. Sometimes I could have a night of dreams that makes me feel refreshed upon awakening but more often than not it feels like I spend all night taming other people's out of control nightmares.
YouAreDreaming

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03/24/2021 02:19 PM
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Re: Experts in Lucid Dreaming: A Question
I don't know if you have any experience in this area but I have heard that psychedelic compounds (mushrooms, LSD, etc.) 'develop' or I guess 'reopen' or 'stimulate' old, lesser used neural pathways in the brain. I will admit to having used these compounds but my lucid dreaming is trash. Although the following few nights I will wake up with 'profound' thoughts, those will slowly die away as I've had time away from the psychedelic. My dream recall has drastically dropped since smoking cannabis and I have been able to pick it back up when I don't smoke 2-3 hours before bed.

Are these different neural pathways than the ones used for dreams? The brain is capable of so much more than I think we can imagine so I wouldn't be surprised if there were millions with their own individual purpose, but I am surprised that my dream state has deteriorated despite taking substances that are claimed to help develop the brain. Any thoughts?
 Quoting: AlwaysBlazed


Having been an active dream programmer over 40 years (started when I was 8 when my dreams tipped me off I could dream in movie influences after a Star Wars-themed dream ) and a lucid dreamer since 1987 I can tell you this, none of that came with stimulants or using a drug. It all came from developing the skill over time with trial/error and practice.

Drug use to stimulate dreaming has short-term gains and long-term consequences that are not always apparent in the beginning because it cascades over time with the loss of gain.

Sure you may get a temporary boost but nothing long-term and diminished gains if that was your dependency to have resulted in the first place because a stimulant isn't providing growth neurologically.

The other problem with some drugs to stimulate dreaming is that they can cause substance-induced nightmares for some people, and fear is the dream killer always. That shuts more people down as dreamers than anything else.

I know a lot of dreamers, been active online for decades who take the stimulation path and end up burned out later on or quit all together. It's not a requirement at all to learn to dream.

Dreaming is a skill, just like learning to play the piano or do art, it's also a language between you and your subconscious mind as an interface of thoughts, experiences etc. Like any skill, our brain develops neural pathways which if you understand learning and skill development hard-wires skills so they are performed quickly. Because they are developmental we need to keep training in a skill until that hard-wire development becomes the norm, and if we stop a skill the brain really does repurpose our neural-pathways for the new skills or focus we have and the other skill will become rusty if it's not ever used again over time.

The problem with the dream community is it's like the bodybuilding community where you have good information and misinformation regarding diet and techniques, except I think it's far worse in the dream community as nearly everyone seems to get caught in the stimulating with drugs to dream or take this pill and you will dream thinking to dream is somehow outside the realm of cognitive skill development.

The other problem is that people don't know our ability to dream does atrophy due to lack of participation. The neural pathways for those rich dreams we used to have without use begin to decline. That's how atrophy works in the brain. So the real goal is to get those neural pathways stimulated by performing actively the skill we want to progress in.

There are three neurological regions that dreams rely on to be useful to us:

1) Memory for dream recall (The Medial Prefrontal Cortex )
2) 5-Sensory Replay ( The Somatosensory regions )
3) Awareness (The Prefrontal Cortex )

So how do we train for these regions to get them stimulated? Work with the dreaming mind leveraging it's own mechanics through training like going to the gym with a routine.

The other area is the psychological nature of dreams, knowing how to become orientated, stable, intent focused and do the inevitable house cleaning of releasing old fears and negative beliefs that might create a psychological inhibitor on dream participation.

After all that, the rest is just skill development within the dream itself like architecting your own lucid dream content based on your intent.

So you want to train for dreaming starting at the basic foundations as your brain starts to come out of atrophy and the results start to emerge over time like they do for any skill because it takes time for those neural pathways to develop through repeat stimulation.

Lots of people want to know what supplements to take to have stimulated dreams, not what techniques to apply to train the skill. It's like taking protein powder without exercise at the gym.

Dreaming should be an active, not passive skill for those interested in developing the ability to dream.

I've had people just interested in one or two aspects of dreaming as in, just being able to recall them again and nothing more. Or getting the bootstrap process working and staying there because it too can be very rewarding without the immersion into a dream. Everyone will develop to where they are most comfortable, others will excel like a grand pianist with this skill honing and training and challenging themselves regularly.

But without training, routine and just letting the brain do passive dreaming without any effort the atrophy comes back, and comes back quick sadly.

I've had people start to bring dream recall from once a month to 3 times a night then back to no dreaming because they stopped the process of actively recalling their dreams before the atrophy becomes resolved, the brain habitually snaps back to atrophy and they are like... why am I not remembering my dreams again, I did the course.

I ask, have you continued to keep with the routine and effort to recall them in the morning.

No, I got too busy so haven't been putting in the effort.

Well... you get what you put into it and lose what you gain when you don't keep up with the stimulation of those regions.

Hopefully, my work will help break everyone out of dreaming as a passive skill where drugs and wishful thinking work better than simple training and exercise for cognitive dream development.

Get a dream plan, a dream routine and work on the atrophic deficiencies over time and know as those little gains emerge the bigger results come with that foundation you are building, just like any skill you would learn.

There are no short-cuts to developing neurologically short of consistency and persistence for any skill, dreaming is no exception to that rule.
Beardog

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03/24/2021 02:40 PM

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Re: Experts in Lucid Dreaming: A Question
Do you seriously type all of these? You have half a book from this thread alone!yoda
 Quoting: Freefreakshow


Well, I am a writer. Plus I want you guys to have real information rather than some bullshit on this topic.
 Quoting: YouAreDreaming


I appreciate it very informative...i have had 3-4 lucid dreams but the 3rd one was when i realised that there's levels of lucidity .

the one that struck me was when i was outside it was daytime not sure about any of the dreams theme or storyline , what struck me was when i realised i was dreaming

and so i looked at the sky suddenly my eyes opened in the dream which sounds silly because i assumed they were already.

The brightness and clarity was indistinguishable from reality to the point that my eyes winced from the glare i could feel like expanding space and even atmosphere then i woke up in shock .

All my other lucid dreams were more conciusly aware and controlled but not vivid just like a normal dream abstract but each clip i could choose my reactions.

I want to achieve the vivid type again and not pull out early .i have done dmt the closed eye version and im convinced of different dimensions populated with beings because of these two experiences.
Linear thinking is too slow.
upperdecker237

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03/24/2021 02:53 PM
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Re: Experts in Lucid Dreaming: A Question
Can anyone explain why I sometimes yell/scream/curse (like I'm fighting with someone) when sleeping? It really sucks and I wake others up sometimes and I don't even realize I'm doing it most the time.
Beardog

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03/24/2021 02:55 PM

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Re: Experts in Lucid Dreaming: A Question
Can anyone explain why I sometimes yell/scream/curse (like I'm fighting with someone) when sleeping? It really sucks and I wake others up sometimes and I don't even realize I'm doing it most the time.
 Quoting: upperdecker237


Iv'e been told i have done that when it happened i was stressed and anxious maybe thats a trigger
Linear thinking is too slow.
President of TABTX  (OP)

User ID: 77160280
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03/24/2021 03:02 PM
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Re: Experts in Lucid Dreaming: A Question
Can anyone explain why I sometimes yell/scream/curse (like I'm fighting with someone) when sleeping? It really sucks and I wake others up sometimes and I don't even realize I'm doing it most the time.
 Quoting: upperdecker237


Iv'e been told i have done that when it happened i was stressed and anxious maybe thats a trigger
 Quoting: Beardog


My wife talks in her sleep sometimes. I've tried having conversations with her when she does that. Never works. She just mumbles nonsense. I mean, she does that when she's awake too so... (Damn good thing she doesn't know about this website...1rof1)
Beardog

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03/24/2021 03:13 PM

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Re: Experts in Lucid Dreaming: A Question
Can anyone explain why I sometimes yell/scream/curse (like I'm fighting with someone) when sleeping? It really sucks and I wake others up sometimes and I don't even realize I'm doing it most the time.
 Quoting: upperdecker237


Iv'e been told i have done that when it happened i was stressed and anxious maybe thats a trigger
 Quoting: Beardog


My wife talks in her sleep sometimes. I've tried having conversations with her when she does that. Never works. She just mumbles nonsense. I mean, she does that when she's awake too so... (Damn good thing she doesn't know about this website...1rof1)
 Quoting: President of TABTX


epiclol
Linear thinking is too slow.
YouAreDreaming

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03/24/2021 03:21 PM
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Re: Experts in Lucid Dreaming: A Question
I appreciate it very informative...i have had 3-4 lucid dreams but the 3rd one was when i realised that there's levels of lucidity .

the one that struck me was when i was outside it was daytime not sure about any of the dreams theme or storyline , what struck me was when i realised i was dreaming

and so i looked at the sky suddenly my eyes opened in the dream which sounds silly because i assumed they were already.

The brightness and clarity was indistinguishable from reality to the point that my eyes winced from the glare i could feel like expanding space and even atmosphere then i woke up in shock .

All my other lucid dreams were more conciusly aware and controlled but not vivid just like a normal dream abstract but each clip i could choose my reactions.

I want to achieve the vivid type again and not pull out early .i have done dmt the closed eye version and im convinced of different dimensions populated with beings because of these two experiences.
 Quoting: Beardog


It's the ultra-realistic nature of dreams that keeps me into it because for me at this point in my development it has been like having a second-life where I am the architect of the dreams I want to have or a participant in the dreams that are working out other aspects of myself. Either way, I'd rather have added a realistic dream experience than none at all because I see a lot of intrinsic and self-evolutionary value in these 'what-if' simulations and feel it's useful fun and often very entertaining.

With the stupid lock-down for the first time, my dream life became far more stable and normal than my waking life. I could still go to restaurants, clubs, vacations, and beaches if I wanted to as an ultra-realistic dream simulation where here it was just gloomy depressing crap. So that was a perk I didn't expect making me appreciate this skill more than ever.

It's nice to be able to take a break from all this clown world nonsense shaping our world and have a breath to just be without those influences and those are my dreams today, quite nice. My dreams often are better movies than what's out there these days, way better plots, characters and stories plus it's in first-person full-sensory VR. Awesome.

So definitely keep training the skill it does have a lot of intrinsic rewards that become self-evident as it blossoms into something grander.
AlwaysBlazed

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03/24/2021 03:38 PM

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Re: Experts in Lucid Dreaming: A Question
I don't know if you have any experience in this area but I have heard that psychedelic compounds (mushrooms, LSD, etc.) 'develop' or I guess 'reopen' or 'stimulate' old, lesser used neural pathways in the brain. I will admit to having used these compounds but my lucid dreaming is trash. Although the following few nights I will wake up with 'profound' thoughts, those will slowly die away as I've had time away from the psychedelic. My dream recall has drastically dropped since smoking cannabis and I have been able to pick it back up when I don't smoke 2-3 hours before bed.

Are these different neural pathways than the ones used for dreams? The brain is capable of so much more than I think we can imagine so I wouldn't be surprised if there were millions with their own individual purpose, but I am surprised that my dream state has deteriorated despite taking substances that are claimed to help develop the brain. Any thoughts?
 Quoting: AlwaysBlazed


Having been an active dream programmer over 40 years (started when I was 8 when my dreams tipped me off I could dream in movie influences after a Star Wars-themed dream ) and a lucid dreamer since 1987 I can tell you this, none of that came with stimulants or using a drug. It all came from developing the skill over time with trial/error and practice.

Drug use to stimulate dreaming has short-term gains and long-term consequences that are not always apparent in the beginning because it cascades over time with the loss of gain.

Sure you may get a temporary boost but nothing long-term and diminished gains if that was your dependency to have resulted in the first place because a stimulant isn't providing growth neurologically.

The other problem with some drugs to stimulate dreaming is that they can cause substance-induced nightmares for some people, and fear is the dream killer always. That shuts more people down as dreamers than anything else.

I know a lot of dreamers, been active online for decades who take the stimulation path and end up burned out later on or quit all together. It's not a requirement at all to learn to dream.

Dreaming is a skill, just like learning to play the piano or do art, it's also a language between you and your subconscious mind as an interface of thoughts, experiences etc. Like any skill, our brain develops neural pathways which if you understand learning and skill development hard-wires skills so they are performed quickly. Because they are developmental we need to keep training in a skill until that hard-wire development becomes the norm, and if we stop a skill the brain really does repurpose our neural-pathways for the new skills or focus we have and the other skill will become rusty if it's not ever used again over time.

The problem with the dream community is it's like the bodybuilding community where you have good information and misinformation regarding diet and techniques, except I think it's far worse in the dream community as nearly everyone seems to get caught in the stimulating with drugs to dream or take this pill and you will dream thinking to dream is somehow outside the realm of cognitive skill development.

The other problem is that people don't know our ability to dream does atrophy due to lack of participation. The neural pathways for those rich dreams we used to have without use begin to decline. That's how atrophy works in the brain. So the real goal is to get those neural pathways stimulated by performing actively the skill we want to progress in.

There are three neurological regions that dreams rely on to be useful to us:

1) Memory for dream recall (The Medial Prefrontal Cortex )
2) 5-Sensory Replay ( The Somatosensory regions )
3) Awareness (The Prefrontal Cortex )

So how do we train for these regions to get them stimulated? Work with the dreaming mind leveraging it's own mechanics through training like going to the gym with a routine.

The other area is the psychological nature of dreams, knowing how to become orientated, stable, intent focused and do the inevitable house cleaning of releasing old fears and negative beliefs that might create a psychological inhibitor on dream participation.

After all that, the rest is just skill development within the dream itself like architecting your own lucid dream content based on your intent.

So you want to train for dreaming starting at the basic foundations as your brain starts to come out of atrophy and the results start to emerge over time like they do for any skill because it takes time for those neural pathways to develop through repeat stimulation.

Lots of people want to know what supplements to take to have stimulated dreams, not what techniques to apply to train the skill. It's like taking protein powder without exercise at the gym.

Dreaming should be an active, not passive skill for those interested in developing the ability to dream.

I've had people just interested in one or two aspects of dreaming as in, just being able to recall them again and nothing more. Or getting the bootstrap process working and staying there because it too can be very rewarding without the immersion into a dream. Everyone will develop to where they are most comfortable, others will excel like a grand pianist with this skill honing and training and challenging themselves regularly.

But without training, routine and just letting the brain do passive dreaming without any effort the atrophy comes back, and comes back quick sadly.

I've had people start to bring dream recall from once a month to 3 times a night then back to no dreaming because they stopped the process of actively recalling their dreams before the atrophy becomes resolved, the brain habitually snaps back to atrophy and they are like... why am I not remembering my dreams again, I did the course.

I ask, have you continued to keep with the routine and effort to recall them in the morning.

No, I got too busy so haven't been putting in the effort.

Well... you get what you put into it and lose what you gain when you don't keep up with the stimulation of those regions.

Hopefully, my work will help break everyone out of dreaming as a passive skill where drugs and wishful thinking work better than simple training and exercise for cognitive dream development.

Get a dream plan, a dream routine and work on the atrophic deficiencies over time and know as those little gains emerge the bigger results come with that foundation you are building, just like any skill you would learn.

There are no short-cuts to developing neurologically short of consistency and persistence for any skill, dreaming is no exception to that rule.
 Quoting: YouAreDreaming


Thank you for all of the information!

I've posted above about briefly lucid dreaming last night but my head started to hurt the more I focused on staying lucid. My theory is it's like stretching a really tight muscle and over time with regular practice, the discomfort will go away. Any thoughts on this?





GLP