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The pre-tribulation doctrine is a lie.

 
This is my GLP
~ Another faithful soldier in Jesus Christ ~

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04/04/2021 10:06 AM
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Re: The pre-tribulation doctrine is a lie.
...


 Quoting: StellaWayten

you just bought the bible propaganda.. it is not the word of god and Jesus did NOT teach such a thing.. it was a thing before he came into this world and he debunked it.. its time to debunk that which CANNOT EXIST. there is no such thing anywhere in the creation.. it is a fear tactic to keep people in line... it is not of any holiness at all.

Where is the hell.. tell ME using the best of your logic how the body dead in the ground that goes back to dust burn eternally.. that should be awfully obvious.

And how does the spirit form burn eternally for trillions and trillions of years.. what would the point in such a think. You believe in this fellow.. .right? It is not real. The real is AlIVE... as to God. and indwells or is felt in your hearts.

Love does not burn people in a place called "hell"...

 Quoting: ALL IS ONE IS ALL

bsflag
 Quoting: Baloney


well baloney with baloney strikes again..he even struck thru the final comment about love does not burn people in hell....
 Quoting: ALL IS ONE IS ALL



People who will burn in hell will be there by their own accord , especially the ones looking forward to it.

God desires all to come unto repentance , many unfortunately , will choose condemnation because they are so in love with themselves , the things of this world , or full of spite that they'd rather burn for eternity than have to submit to God. ~

Last Edited by This is my GLP on 04/04/2021 10:14 AM
All praise and glory to God ~ He is always in control , no matter what happens. ~

Jesus is LORD AND SAVIOR!

Zephaniah 2:3 -

Seek the Lord, all you meek of the earth,
Who have upheld His justice.
Seek righteousness, seek humility.
It may be that you will be hidden
In the day of the Lord’s anger.
This is my GLP
~ Another faithful soldier in Jesus Christ ~

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Re: The pre-tribulation doctrine is a lie.
Why do anti pre trib rapture people feel the need to slam others for their beliefs!?
 Quoting: MrToad


They're afraid.

Most simply don't understand or lack the faith that God can make a way for His children through His wrath.

Just like He did Noah and Lot.
All praise and glory to God ~ He is always in control , no matter what happens. ~

Jesus is LORD AND SAVIOR!

Zephaniah 2:3 -

Seek the Lord, all you meek of the earth,
Who have upheld His justice.
Seek righteousness, seek humility.
It may be that you will be hidden
In the day of the Lord’s anger.
REaliZe
Yeshua saves!

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04/04/2021 10:09 AM

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Re: The pre-tribulation doctrine is a lie.
The Bible supports a pre-trib rapture. If you read the Bible, you would know.

Last Edited by REaliZe on 04/04/2021 10:10 AM
There's. A. H0le. In. The. Sky.
Achduke7

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04/04/2021 10:10 AM

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Re: The pre-tribulation doctrine is a lie.
Matthew 24:22 (KJV) And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
 Quoting: StellaWayten


That verse is to the J_-ws, not the Church, they will still be on the earth during those times, the church will be in heaven.
 Quoting: javierruizleon


Very heart-warming to finally see someone here who knows of rightly dividing the word. Your sig encapsulates it! <3
 Quoting: RSLbuff


Yes! Rightly Dividing is what your dispensationalist church teaches that is not from the bible.
Achduke
Ravens 3

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04/04/2021 10:11 AM
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Re: The pre-tribulation doctrine is a lie.
Why do anti pre trib rapture people feel the need to slam others for their beliefs!?
 Quoting: MrToad


They're afraid.

Most simply don't understand or lack the faith that God can make a way for His children through His wrath.

Just like He did Noah and Lot.
 Quoting: This is my GLP


100% Correct
xXx
Jungleboogie

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04/04/2021 10:15 AM

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Re: The pre-tribulation doctrine is a lie.
Nope
 Quoting: javierruizleon


Care to prove it? I know you didn't even watch the video.
 Quoting: StellaWayten


Lame thread where no debate is allowed, only posting hour long videos without synopsis, okay


abandonthread
Embrace the cognitive dissonance.
Moondawg

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04/04/2021 10:16 AM
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Re: The pre-tribulation doctrine is a lie.
The Bible supports a pre-trib rapture. If you read the Bible, you would know.
 Quoting: REaliZe


Where?
The Berean

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04/04/2021 10:18 AM
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Re: The pre-tribulation doctrine is a lie.
The doctrine of "imminence" requires a pre-trib rapture.
If the rapture can "only happen when..." then you are calling Jesus a liar.
As for the "Rapture" being a modern idea,
1)
The first direct reference to the Rapture (as the Church escaping the Great Tribulation) is
found in the early second century apocalyptic writing of the Shepherd of Hermas. In the fourth
vision, chapter 1, he says, [emphasis added] “I saw another vision, brethren-a representation of
the tribulation that is to come.” Then in chapter 2, he says, “lo! a virgin meets me, adorned as if
she were proceeding from the bridal chamber” and “I knew from my former visions that this was
the Church,” and then, “You have escaped from great tribulation on account of your faith, and
because you did not doubt in the presence of such a beast.
2)

The next direct references to the Rapture are contained in Irenaeus&#8223; (120-202), Against
Heresies, Book 5; where he uses Enoch as an example of the Rapture of the just/Church, clearly
states the Rapture occurs before the Tribulation and separates the Rapture from the Second
Coming and resurrection of the just. Irenaeus was a disciple of Polycarp (who was a disciple of
John the Apostle), was the first to detail prophetic events after the writing of the New Testament,
and gave the Church the first system of premillennial interpretation.6
The first citation was
previously mentioned in the “Uses of Harpazo” section and comes from chapter 5, section 1,
“For Enoch, when he pleased God, was translated in the same body in which he did please Him,
thus pointing out by anticipation the translation of the just [emphasis added].”7 Next, in chapter
29, at the end of section 1, “And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught
up from this, it is said, „There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning,
neither shall be&#8223; [emphasis added]. For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when
they overcome, they are crowned with incorruption.”8
[link to web.oru.edu]
ALL IS ONE IS ALL
I AM THAT I AM- KAN DAEK

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04/04/2021 10:18 AM

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Re: The pre-tribulation doctrine is a lie.
Why do anti pre trib rapture people feel the need to slam others for their beliefs!?
 Quoting: MrToad


because the others are mind controlled as shit and used to destroy Jesus? yes. This is the age of truth coming to this planet and it will come fully as has begun now intensely in the covid perfect storm..

People must grow their god given minds and develop reason..
The Gospel of Christ IS all humans are ONLY BEGOTTEN Sons of the FATHER and thus you are all brothers and sisters and you are all kin of Christ too.


KD New begin....
Achduke7

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04/04/2021 10:19 AM

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Re: The pre-tribulation doctrine is a lie.
This video proves pre-tribulation is a lie.


 Quoting: StellaWayten


This place has being a trubulation halloween party for the last 250 million years!

non-stop!

devil6 <--- This little guy here says it !

half truth ? maybe ?
 Quoting: x ²²²


I'm speaking of the tribulation talked about in the book of revelation. The exact order of things is given.
 Quoting: StellaWayten


You're misinterpreting them. The escape is clearly written even in the OT. Don't you ever ask God? I did and He answered me. The answer is yes, there surely is a rapture. I know what I am watching for. People like me who watch do that because we are commanded to watch. We do that because he told us to and we love his appearing. What are you watching for? You anti-escape people are just like athiests, you angrily try to prove we should be hopeless and throw away the truth. They are fast tracking the mark of the beast. You can't escape that or survive it. There would be no bride of Christ or 144000 left to do that job. Don't believe me, get your own answer.
 Quoting: Midnight Oil


Read the bible. You can escape the mark of the beast. Just say No! And have faith God will deliver you. What do think overcome means? Be ready to die for those beliefs. Do you think God wants an unfaithful wife? The bible says so many die and come out of the tribulation they cannot be counted by man they are so numerous.
Achduke
Lester

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04/04/2021 10:20 AM
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Re: The pre-tribulation doctrine is a lie.
Without having been Ezekiel 36:26-27 Born-Again...
IE: Having The Father "...Give You A New Heart Of Flesh" and "Put MY Spirit Inside You".... Not much real "Understanding" Is Given to anyone who remains "a worker of iniquity".

If you Love Christ Jesus, and Have Been Given To KNOW WHO HE IS; then Father-God has Called You To Abide With HIM.

Got to Be Born-Again.... John 3:7


But in This here & now, so many prove they're not.....

What they also prove by this is that they're alienated from God.


So many Witnesses where Jesus Says IT. None so plainly as Matt 22:1-14 where HE Says Everything Of Christianity Is About COMING UNTO The Father~! Our whole Purpose In Life, IF Father-God PUT Knowledge Of WHO Jesus IS, is to Answer HIS Call and Give HIM our lives.


No... There's no rapture Pre or Mid.

Jesus Gives HIS Witness of The Born-Again Life in the entirety of John ch 17. The ONLY Witness HE Ever Gave In Form Of A Prayer... Might just be important! But without God The Holy Spirit Enabling You To KNOW HIS True Witness, you'll just pass it by.

In John 17:15, Jesus Says that HIS People are "Preserved Against ALL evil."

Preserved.... Delivered From.... Passed-Over.....


Everything Of Christianity Is About Answering God's Call. Getting your Wedding Garment which is Your Born-Again Heart Of Father's Flesh!

You don't hear it from your pastors, teachers, ministers, preachers because they never took action... Never "Came Unto The Father" per John 14:6. That verse isn't about Jesus Being "The Truth, The Light and The Way", Although HE IS That. John 14:6 is about what comes after "...No man Cometh Unto The Father but BY ME!"

Father's WHOLE Purposes in Sending Christ Jesus Was To Redeem US So HE Could Look Upon Us when we Came Unto HIM, Answering HIS Call To BE Born-Again and Abide With HIM In This Life and The Next.


Can't Testify and Witness that you've stood In Father's Presence and Given HIM your Life and Will to Do With as HE See's Fit? Then, you haven't...

Christ Jesus Gave HIS Life To Make The Way. Each of us Who Love and Know HIM have to walk it, Make Our Decision and Come Unto The Father, Manifesting our Faith Into Action!

Faith without "works" (Taking Action) is dead. Although "dead" in this instance means nevner alive...


Want there to be a pre-or mid Trib rapture?

You want this because you don't Trust God... You don't Trust HIM Enough To Give HIM Your Life. You don't Trust HIM Enough to thereby Know that Living In, With, and Through HIM IS Being "Preserved Against ALL evil".


Being Born-Again for many years and having Witnessed on that subject almost entirely for over 17yrs, I KNOW many times God Has Saved my life and my family. Living Through HIM, HIS Guidance Has NEVER Been Wrong or other than The Best Path for us.

What is a mind-blower is when you consider all the things HE Sweeps from our path which we never even saw coming... All the things, call them tribulations, of a normal life. Living without fear or anxiety...

We die unto self when we Surrender Our All Unto The Father. Delivered and Preserved from then on...

It's The Only Way For A Christian To Live...
Too Bad so few can find it in their heart to Trust God Fully with all they are and all they ever will be... Too Bad so few will Take Action!

Jesus concludes HIS Whole Enchilada Witness on Christianity, Matt 22:1-14 with this verse: "For many were Called, but few are Chosen!"


Everyone to whom God The Father Gave KNOWLEDGE Of WHO Jesus Is WAS Chosen. Called BY The Father To Live With HIM.

Only those who Chose-Elected to Take Action and Answer HIS Call Are Born-Again and Living With HIM.


Nothing in this life matters except answering Father's Call. Jesus Gave HIS Life To Enable This For You! The question is, Can You Take Action and Prove Your Love For HIM and The Father?

Maranatha!!!
Achduke7

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04/04/2021 10:23 AM

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Re: The pre-tribulation doctrine is a lie.
The doctrine of "imminence" requires a pre-trib rapture.
If the rapture can "only happen when..." then you are calling Jesus a liar.
As for the "Rapture" being a modern idea,
1)
The first direct reference to the Rapture (as the Church escaping the Great Tribulation) is
found in the early second century apocalyptic writing of the Shepherd of Hermas. In the fourth
vision, chapter 1, he says, [emphasis added] “I saw another vision, brethren-a representation of
the tribulation that is to come.” Then in chapter 2, he says, “lo! a virgin meets me, adorned as if
she were proceeding from the bridal chamber” and “I knew from my former visions that this was
the Church,” and then, “You have escaped from great tribulation on account of your faith, and
because you did not doubt in the presence of such a beast.
2)

The next direct references to the Rapture are contained in Irenaeus&#8223; (120-202), Against
Heresies, Book 5; where he uses Enoch as an example of the Rapture of the just/Church, clearly
states the Rapture occurs before the Tribulation and separates the Rapture from the Second
Coming and resurrection of the just. Irenaeus was a disciple of Polycarp (who was a disciple of
John the Apostle), was the first to detail prophetic events after the writing of the New Testament,
and gave the Church the first system of premillennial interpretation.6
The first citation was
previously mentioned in the “Uses of Harpazo” section and comes from chapter 5, section 1,
“For Enoch, when he pleased God, was translated in the same body in which he did please Him,
thus pointing out by anticipation the translation of the just [emphasis added].”7 Next, in chapter
29, at the end of section 1, “And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught
up from this, it is said, „There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning,
neither shall be&#8223; [emphasis added]. For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when
they overcome, they are crowned with incorruption.”8
[link to web.oru.edu]
 Quoting: The Berean


Where is this doctrine of imminence defined in the bible. I see no definition for this doctrine. Did your church tell this? Why not just listen to the pope then? He has lots of doctrines also. Time to leave babylon.
Achduke
bigkahuna62

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04/04/2021 10:24 AM

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Re: The pre-tribulation doctrine is a lie.
[link to www.nowtheendbegins.com (secure)]
bigkahuna62
Baloney

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04/04/2021 10:27 AM

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Re: The pre-tribulation doctrine is a lie.
Why do anti pre trib rapture people feel the need to slam others for their beliefs!?
 Quoting: MrToad


because the others are mind controlled as shit and used to destroy Jesus? yes. This is the age of truth coming to this planet and it will come fully as has begun now intensely in the covid perfect storm..

People must grow their god given minds and develop reason..
 Quoting: ALL IS ONE IS ALL


incorrect. it is you and your urantia cult that are mind controlled as shit. you ones mock Jesus daily with the lies of him being on one of your phony spaceships. He is not, never has been, and never will be on a urantian spaceship period. The end of this age is coming, in the form of the 7 year tribulation period under the rule of satan of nebadon's antichrist.

it is urantia cult that must grown their god given minds and develop reason. you people need to put away the toy spaceships and alien action figures and GROW THE HELL UP!
Mikhailman

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04/04/2021 10:28 AM
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Re: The pre-tribulation doctrine is a lie.
This video proves pre-tribulation is a lie.


 Quoting: StellaWayten


Mid-Trib rapture is pretty plausible!

One question I have is... Will those who are saved (and go to Heaven) remember their loved ones who do NOT accept Jesus into their hearts and don't go to heaven... Can anyone answer this?? I have asked this question of several leading bible scholars and they won;t/can't answer it...
Mikhailman
Mikhailman

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04/04/2021 10:29 AM
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Re: The pre-tribulation doctrine is a lie.
This video proves pre-tribulation is a lie.


 Quoting: StellaWayten


Mid-Trib rapture is pretty plausible!

One question I have is... Will those who are saved (and go to Heaven) remember their loved ones who do NOT accept Jesus into their hearts and don't go to heaven... Can anyone answer this?? I have asked this question of several leading bible scholars and they won;t/can't answer it...
 Quoting: Mikhailman


anyone??
Mikhailman
Baloney

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Re: The pre-tribulation doctrine is a lie.
The Bible supports a pre-trib rapture. If you read the Bible, you would know.
 Quoting: REaliZe


clappa

YES, you are correct.
The Berean

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04/04/2021 10:29 AM
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Re: The pre-tribulation doctrine is a lie.
The doctrine of "imminence" requires a pre-trib rapture.
If the rapture can "only happen when..." then you are calling Jesus a liar.
As for the "Rapture" being a modern idea,
1)
The first direct reference to the Rapture (as the Church escaping the Great Tribulation) is
found in the early second century apocalyptic writing of the Shepherd of Hermas. In the fourth
vision, chapter 1, he says, [emphasis added] “I saw another vision, brethren-a representation of
the tribulation that is to come.” Then in chapter 2, he says, “lo! a virgin meets me, adorned as if
she were proceeding from the bridal chamber” and “I knew from my former visions that this was
the Church,” and then, “You have escaped from great tribulation on account of your faith, and
because you did not doubt in the presence of such a beast.
2)

The next direct references to the Rapture are contained in Irenaeus&#8223; (120-202), Against
Heresies, Book 5; where he uses Enoch as an example of the Rapture of the just/Church, clearly
states the Rapture occurs before the Tribulation and separates the Rapture from the Second
Coming and resurrection of the just. Irenaeus was a disciple of Polycarp (who was a disciple of
John the Apostle), was the first to detail prophetic events after the writing of the New Testament,
and gave the Church the first system of premillennial interpretation.6
The first citation was
previously mentioned in the “Uses of Harpazo” section and comes from chapter 5, section 1,
“For Enoch, when he pleased God, was translated in the same body in which he did please Him,
thus pointing out by anticipation the translation of the just [emphasis added].”7 Next, in chapter
29, at the end of section 1, “And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught
up from this, it is said, „There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning,
neither shall be&#8223; [emphasis added]. For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when
they overcome, they are crowned with incorruption.”8
[link to web.oru.edu]
 Quoting: The Berean


Where is this doctrine of imminence defined in the bible. I see no definition for this doctrine. Did your church tell this? Why not just listen to the pope then? He has lots of doctrines also. Time to leave babylon.
 Quoting: Achduke7

Of that day and hour knoweth no man...

What is the biblical definition of imminency? Four important elements contribute to a
pretribulational understanding of imminency. First, imminency means that the rapture could
take place at any moment. While other events may take place before the rapture, no event
must precede it. If prior events are required before the rapture, then the rapture could not
be described as imminent. Thus, if any event were required to occur before the rapture,
then the concept of imminency would be destroyed.
Second, since the rapture is imminent and could happen at any moment, then it follows
that one must be prepared for it to occur at any time, without sign or warning.
Third, imminency eliminates any attempt at date setting. Date setting is impossible
since the rapture is signless (i.e., providing no basis for date setting) and if imminency is
really true, the moment a date was fixed then Christ could not come at any moment,
destroying imminency. Fourth, “A person cannot legitimately
say that an imminent event will happen soon. The term ‘soon’ implies that an event must
take place ‘within a short time (after a particular point of time specified or implied).’ By
contrast, an imminent event may take place within a short time, but it does not have to do so
in order to be imminent. As I hope you can see by now, “imminent” is not equal to ‘soon.’
beenthruthat

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04/04/2021 10:57 AM

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Re: The pre-tribulation doctrine is a lie.
Great video Opie ... truth spoken here ...
People don't care how much You know ... till they know how much You care ...
evangeline claire

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04/04/2021 11:25 AM
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Re: The pre-tribulation doctrine is a lie.
This video proves pre-tribulation is a lie.


 Quoting: StellaWayten


Mid-Trib rapture is pretty plausible!

One question I have is... Will those who are saved (and go to Heaven) remember their loved ones who do NOT accept Jesus into their hearts and don't go to heaven... Can anyone answer this?? I have asked this question of several leading bible scholars and they won;t/can't answer it...
 Quoting: Mikhailman


I believe mid-trib is also plausible.

As for people in Heaven not remembering their unsaved loved ones...although I don't like the idea of my mind being blanked out of their existence, I don't see how God could let us remember them---that would be hell in heaven, then.

And, it is one thing to say we should put God before husband, wife, son, daughter, etc. (here one Earth as to whether we follow Christ or not) - but it would be pure cruelty (imo) to let us remember our unsaved loved ones -- at least - imo. Of course, I don't know the answer but don't want to remember anyone I loved not being in Heaven.

But I do know some very pious people who revel in the fact that all may not be saved and even be eternally tormented. I am of the opinion/hope that they are annihilated and experience no suffering.

However, although many may label me as not a Christian, my pray is that all will be saved. It is difficult for me to believe God would condemn a person who never asked to be born, or born with mental disabilities or raised in a totally dysfunctional setting for their actions.

I pray we have a misunderstanding of the judgement and that people who are not saved, yet once in the presence of God, humble themselves, see the error of their ways, are truly repentant and that God shows them mercy. I really pray this.

I don't believe in purgatory, but wish it was true, so it would give people a chance, or a second chance - so to speak at salvation.

I cannot stand/ I actually detest Biden, Obama, Bushes, Soros and the lot --- unless they are actually of demon-seed and not human, I even wish they could be saved. IMO, for Biden to push vaxx's which I am certain he knows are dangerous -- he is no worse that the doctors who push it or don't speak up about the dangers.
Isaiah 5:20
Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
evangeline claire

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04/04/2021 11:30 AM
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Re: The pre-tribulation doctrine is a lie.
Why do anti pre trib rapture people feel the need to slam others for their beliefs!?
 Quoting: MrToad


They're afraid.

Most simply don't understand or lack the faith that God can make a way for His children through His wrath.

Just like He did Noah and Lot.
 Quoting: This is my GLP


True, but, remember, God will not make way for all of the saved. Look what happens to Christians in 3rd world countries...they are tortured and killed for their Christianity.

Christians in our country are so soft - aka lukewarm - it frightens me. All this talk about the rapture not being true, or not pre-trib is a good thought to entertain. We all must face the fact that we may be tested. We must be prepared (as much as humanly possible) to say 'no' to the mark of the beast ---which will result in death, torture, imprisonment... being an outcast would be the least of my worries.
Isaiah 5:20
Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
Achduke7

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04/04/2021 11:38 AM

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Re: The pre-tribulation doctrine is a lie.
Of that day and hour knoweth no man...

What is the biblical definition of imminency? Four important elements contribute to a
pretribulational understanding of imminency. First, imminency means that the rapture could
take place at any moment. While other events may take place before the rapture, no event
must precede it. If prior events are required before the rapture, then the rapture could not
be described as imminent. Thus, if any event were required to occur before the rapture,
then the concept of imminency would be destroyed.
Second, since the rapture is imminent and could happen at any moment, then it follows
that one must be prepared for it to occur at any time, without sign or warning.
Third, imminency eliminates any attempt at date setting. Date setting is impossible
since the rapture is signless (i.e., providing no basis for date setting) and if imminency is
really true, the moment a date was fixed then Christ could not come at any moment,
destroying imminency. Fourth, “A person cannot legitimately
say that an imminent event will happen soon. The term ‘soon’ implies that an event must
take place ‘within a short time (after a particular point of time specified or implied).’ By
contrast, an imminent event may take place within a short time, but it does not have to do so
in order to be imminent. As I hope you can see by now, “imminent” is not equal to ‘soon.’
 Quoting: The Berean


Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tr*bes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his el*ct from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.




Look what happens at that same time during that unknown day and hour.

1st) Tribulation

2nd) Sign of Christ and everyone mourns. Christ does not come in secret. Then the harpazo/rapture. All after the tribulation.

3rd) Hapazo/Rapture.

Read the verses you reference. The rapture is known to happen after tribulation and the sign of Christ. The only unknown is the actual day and hour before all these things happen. Not just the Rapture but first the Tribulation and the sign of Christ.

Last Edited by Achduke7 on 04/04/2021 11:48 AM
Achduke
Achduke7

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04/04/2021 11:51 AM

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Re: The pre-tribulation doctrine is a lie.
Why do anti pre trib rapture people feel the need to slam others for their beliefs!?
 Quoting: MrToad


They're afraid.

Most simply don't understand or lack the faith that God can make a way for His children through His wrath.

Just like He did Noah and Lot.
 Quoting: This is my GLP


True, but, remember, God will not make way for all of the saved. Look what happens to Christians in 3rd world countries...they are tortured and killed for their Christianity.

Christians in our country are so soft - aka lukewarm - it frightens me. All this talk about the rapture not being true, or not pre-trib is a good thought to entertain. We all must face the fact that we may be tested. We must be prepared (as much as humanly possible) to say 'no' to the mark of the beast ---which will result in death, torture, imprisonment... being an outcast would be the least of my worries.
 Quoting: evangeline claire



Many Christians are already getting the vaccine from fear, pressure from the Government, work and peers. Looks like the Mark is not to far off from them.

Last Edited by Achduke7 on 04/04/2021 11:51 AM
Achduke
ALL IS ONE IS ALL
I AM THAT I AM- KAN DAEK

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04/04/2021 11:51 AM

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Re: The pre-tribulation doctrine is a lie.
Of that day and hour knoweth no man...

What is the biblical definition of imminency? Four important elements contribute to a
pretribulational understanding of imminency. First, imminency means that the rapture could
take place at any moment. While other events may take place before the rapture, no event
must precede it. If prior events are required before the rapture, then the rapture could not
be described as imminent. Thus, if any event were required to occur before the rapture,
then the concept of imminency would be destroyed.
Second, since the rapture is imminent and could happen at any moment, then it follows
that one must be prepared for it to occur at any time, without sign or warning.
Third, imminency eliminates any attempt at date setting. Date setting is impossible
since the rapture is signless (i.e., providing no basis for date setting) and if imminency is
really true, the moment a date was fixed then Christ could not come at any moment,
destroying imminency. Fourth, “A person cannot legitimately
say that an imminent event will happen soon. The term ‘soon’ implies that an event must
take place ‘within a short time (after a particular point of time specified or implied).’ By
contrast, an imminent event may take place within a short time, but it does not have to do so
in order to be imminent. As I hope you can see by now, “imminent” is not equal to ‘soon.’
 Quoting: The Berean


Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tr*bes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his el*ct from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mat 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.




Look what happens at that same time during that unknown day and hour.

1st) Tribulation

2nd) Sign of Christ and everyone mourns. Christ does not come in secret. Then the harpazo/rapture. All after the tribulation.

3rd) Hapazo/Rapture.

Read the verses you reference. The rapture is known to happen after tribulation and the sign of Christ. The only unknown is the actual day and hour before all these things happen. Not just the Rapture but first the Tribulation and the sign of Christ.
 Quoting: Achduke7


The tribulation is the time of giving truth.. same meaning as apocalypse... we in that for some years now using the internet and more necessary to this and this Perfect Storm called Covid 19 is the end of the period of Tribulation.. of EXPOSING the corruption and all that.

There is no rapture .. while all things IN GOD are possible.. Rapture is NOT IN GOD. you will not be swept to the clouds by Jesus walking thru the sky.. Your suit so meat can't live in the clouds.. and begin to enter yourselves into the age of REASON... This Rapture cannot happen any more than Satan Caws can fly his sleigh with reindeer on Christmas eve.
The Gospel of Christ IS all humans are ONLY BEGOTTEN Sons of the FATHER and thus you are all brothers and sisters and you are all kin of Christ too.


KD New begin....
DJDOG

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04/04/2021 11:53 AM
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Re: The pre-tribulation doctrine is a lie.
This video proves pre-tribulation is a lie.


 Quoting: StellaWayten


That's a fact, Jack....clappa
AnneFranksDrumKit

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04/04/2021 11:54 AM
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Re: The pre-tribulation doctrine is a lie.
Based on your title alone, I strongly recommend reading "How to Win Friends and Influence People...by Dale Carnegie.
Servant-of-the-LORD

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04/04/2021 11:56 AM

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Re: The pre-tribulation doctrine is a lie.
Paul told Timothy to "rightly divide", this where people confuse what is to them and what is for them
 Quoting: javierruizleon


Rightly dividing scripure was the Old Testament at that time. The NT hadn't been written yet.

The Old Testament is Father God's interaction with mankind from creation until about 400 years before Jesus.

1. Part History
2. Part list of commandments, statutes, laws etc...
3. Part Prophecy

THAT is now to "divide" scripture.

And there is ONE Gospel - preached to ALL.

Paul DID NOT have a "seperate" Gospel.

Thread: ONE Gospel - FROM God - THRU Jesus - Taught by ALL of the Apostles - NOT Just Paul - Bible Study
I am a humble Servant of the one True Living God.
StellaWayten  (OP)

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04/04/2021 12:00 PM

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Re: The pre-tribulation doctrine is a lie.
I am confused. It seems like these passages point to a pre or mid-trib, no?

>>>"

In his Olivet Discourse, a sermon focused specifically on the events preceding His Second Coming, Jesus explains that the time period just prior to His return, known as the Great Tribulation, would be so difficult that no human life would be saved without His merciful intervention.

“And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.” (Matthew 24:22)

“Unless the Lord had shortened those days, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom He chose, He shortened the days. (Mark 13:20)

>> Jesus reveals that the world’s darkest hours will be shortened for the sake of the elect.<<<<<
 Quoting: evangeline claire


The tribulation, then antichrist, then great tribulation, then rapture, then God's wrath.
 Quoting: StellaWayten


So, along your timeline, when is the 7 year tribulation? the tribulation or the great tribulation? My understanding is that the anti-christ/beast will be on the scene at the beginning of tribulation (as in the 7 year) and 3.5 years into it, will turn and show his true colors.

I am halfway into your video, I could see the rapture to be mid-trib (as in 3.5 years into 7 year trib). What is the point of a rapture after the 7 year tribulation? And, when do you believe the 'mark of the beast' will come on the scene?
 Quoting: evangeline claire


Your speaking of Daniels 70th week. Show me where it calls the entire 7 years tribulation.
StellaWayten  (OP)

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04/04/2021 12:01 PM

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Re: The pre-tribulation doctrine is a lie.
Why do anti pre trib rapture people feel the need to slam others for their beliefs!?
 Quoting: MrToad


Pretribers are going to cause people to take the mark of the beast. Because they think we won't be here for it.
StellaWayten  (OP)

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04/04/2021 12:02 PM

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Re: The pre-tribulation doctrine is a lie.
Why do anti pre trib rapture people feel the need to slam others for their beliefs!?
 Quoting: MrToad


They're afraid.

Most simply don't understand or lack the faith that God can make a way for His children through His wrath.

Just like He did Noah and Lot.
 Quoting: This is my GLP


I didn't say we would be here for God's wrath.





GLP