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Discussion: Star Trek Transporters , souls and consciousness

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 23899402
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06/22/2021 02:17 PM
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Discussion: Star Trek Transporters , souls and consciousness
Hi all,

Yes this has been discussed time and time again on these forums, as a thought experiment the use of Star Trek transporters in my mind proves that as humans we don’t really have genuine consciousness or what you would say truly sentient and proves we don't have a “soul”.

In the Star Trek world transporter technology works by a computer which scans your whole body down to the atomic level and state, It then dematerialises you (you cease to be), stores that pattern in a pattern buffer and then sends the data to the remote site in which somehow you are re-materialised presumably using energy from somewhere else.

A copy/facsimile, the me before i was dematerialised ceased to be and the new me thinks i am he.


Lots to discuss, when i think about this I often think about “am i the same person from the night before am I the same person I was 10 minutes ago? Is me 10 minutes ago now a dead version of who I am now? Only through the passage of time do we think we are sentient.... a truly sentient being would not need time for its thoughts to process from beginning to end .

This brings me onto the “ship of Theseus”

“In the metaphysics of identity, the ship of Theseus is a thought experiment that raises the question of whether an object that has had all of its components replaced remains fundamentally the same object”

Any how lots of random / tenuous rambling ..

Your thoughts😜
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 77181987
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06/22/2021 02:22 PM
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Re: Discussion: Star Trek Transporters , souls and consciousness
star trek was sci-fi, not a documentary
WGON
"Get that idiot off the air!"

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06/22/2021 02:23 PM

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Re: Discussion: Star Trek Transporters , souls and consciousness
star trek was sci-fi, not a documentary
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77181987


talos 3 shill 2
"Luck is the residue of design."

"Through readiness and discipline, we are masters of our fate.
You might call that notion ironic. But trust me, you'll come around."

"It's like I told my last wife, I said Honey I never drive faster than I can see, and besides, it's all in the reflexes..."
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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06/22/2021 02:23 PM
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Re: Discussion: Star Trek Transporters , souls and consciousness
star trek was sci-fi, not a documentary
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77181987


No shit Sherlock .....
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 79103837
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06/22/2021 02:30 PM
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Re: Discussion: Star Trek Transporters , souls and consciousness
star trek was sci-fi, not a documentary
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 77181987


:talos 3 shill 2:
 Quoting: WGON


cruise
WGON
"Get that idiot off the air!"

User ID: 79961010
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06/22/2021 03:34 PM

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Re: Discussion: Star Trek Transporters , souls and consciousness
Glad YOU liked it. Meanwhile, asshat signed in, whoever he is and...
well see for yourself...


https://imgur.com/a/79cypWj
hestonlol

dawn27 butthurt2

These people are stupid.
And a little bit more than
slightly touchy.

"Luck is the residue of design."

"Through readiness and discipline, we are masters of our fate.
You might call that notion ironic. But trust me, you'll come around."

"It's like I told my last wife, I said Honey I never drive faster than I can see, and besides, it's all in the reflexes..."
WGON
"Get that idiot off the air!"

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06/22/2021 03:36 PM

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Re: Discussion: Star Trek Transporters , souls and consciousness
wwz1 Strzok
"Luck is the residue of design."

"Through readiness and discipline, we are masters of our fate.
You might call that notion ironic. But trust me, you'll come around."

"It's like I told my last wife, I said Honey I never drive faster than I can see, and besides, it's all in the reflexes..."
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 80514261
Finland
06/22/2021 03:59 PM
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Re: Discussion: Star Trek Transporters , souls and consciousness
One soul can occupy one specific body in specific time and space. You can figure out what happens when body is deleted from somewhere and copied into somewhere else.

Taxman would't be happy..
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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06/22/2021 04:24 PM
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Re: Discussion: Star Trek Transporters , souls and consciousness
:wwz1: :Strzok:
 Quoting: WGON


I have no clue what yer on about buddy … completely lost on me 🤣
Anonymous Coward
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06/22/2021 04:34 PM
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Re: Discussion: Star Trek Transporters , souls and consciousness
I believe I am sentient because when a random thought pops into my head I can choose to accept it or reject it.

Maybe that random thought was somehow placed into my head by someone else...but the ability to accept or reject that thought is mine all mine! I decide that based on my own past experiences and my own code of ethics.

Cogito ergo sum!

- MC
Anonymous Coward
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06/22/2021 04:37 PM
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Re: Discussion: Star Trek Transporters , souls and consciousness
"Star Trek: The Next Generation" had an episode where the audience sees that people in transit remain conscious and can even observe the stream of the transporter all around them.

In the story there was some kind of entity inside the stream and it preyed on persons when they were transported. It could be seen approaching by the victim and could only harm people in transit.
Anonymous Coward
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06/22/2021 04:41 PM
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Re: Discussion: Star Trek Transporters , souls and consciousness
Star Trek.....
It’s not Science. But it is fiction.

Fuckin tards.
BIG.BILL
Moon Lambo

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06/22/2021 04:41 PM

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Re: Discussion: Star Trek Transporters , souls and consciousness
What about fields? Morphogenetic fields...?

Can they be simply “replaced” with a similar field...?

Does the field yield the particle or does the particle yield the field...?

book


- - - - - -
“It is not hard to imagine serious public dangers emerging out of instances in which political, military, scientific or religious leaders are unable to distinguish fact from vivid fiction.” ~ Carl Sagan

2011: A Forum Odyssey

[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]

Seattle.

[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]

Who's in Control?

[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]
Anonymous Coward
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06/22/2021 04:44 PM
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Re: Discussion: Star Trek Transporters , souls and consciousness
Remember when the transporter malfunctioned & made 2 will rikers?

Did they both have a soul? Did neither have a soul? 1dunno1

- MC
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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06/22/2021 05:20 PM
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Re: Discussion: Star Trek Transporters , souls and consciousness
"Star Trek: The Next Generation" had an episode where the audience sees that people in transit remain conscious and can even observe the stream of the transporter all around them.

In the story there was some kind of entity inside the stream and it preyed on persons when they were transported. It could be seen approaching by the victim and could only harm people in transit.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79803066



But what if that was part of a sub routine to make people more at ease with the fact they were performing transporter death by creating an illusion of being consciousness? What would appear instant to the user could infact take seconds in that gap they would cease to be.

I think i would be happy with portal tech , step half way in then you know your connected .
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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06/22/2021 05:21 PM
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Re: Discussion: Star Trek Transporters , souls and consciousness
Remember when the transporter malfunctioned & made 2 will rikers?

Did they both have a soul? Did neither have a soul? 1dunno1

- MC
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79089637




Thought experiment with two Rikers and thus no soul.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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06/22/2021 05:23 PM
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Re: Discussion: Star Trek Transporters , souls and consciousness
Star Trek.....
It’s not Science. But it is fiction.

Fuckin tards.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71924989



Get outta my thread , dickus waddus .
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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06/22/2021 05:25 PM
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Re: Discussion: Star Trek Transporters , souls and consciousness
What about fields? Morphogenetic fields...?

Can they be simply “replaced” with a similar field...?

Does the field yield the particle or does the particle yield the field...?

book


- - - - - -
 Quoting: BIG.BILL




Go on ....
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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06/22/2021 05:29 PM
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Re: Discussion: Star Trek Transporters , souls and consciousness
I believe I am sentient because when a random thought pops into my head I can choose to accept it or reject it.

Maybe that random thought was somehow placed into my head by someone else...but the ability to accept or reject that thought is mine all mine! I decide that based on my own past experiences and my own code of ethics.

Cogito ergo sum!

- MC
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 79089637



Is there such a thing as random though ? All thoughts surely are brought about by some input ? I Bet your thinking of a naked pink elephant riding a bycle

Ive tried, but all my random thoughts are led from somewhere ...
WGON
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06/25/2021 08:05 PM

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Re: Discussion: Star Trek Transporters , souls and consciousness
Star Trek.....
It’s not Science. But it is fiction.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 71924989


That's not entirely accurate. Some of the names, dates,
events, and locations have been changed.
To protect the timeline.


trekright

Last Edited by WGON on 06/26/2021 01:12 AM
"Luck is the residue of design."

"Through readiness and discipline, we are masters of our fate.
You might call that notion ironic. But trust me, you'll come around."

"It's like I told my last wife, I said Honey I never drive faster than I can see, and besides, it's all in the reflexes..."
1412
One four twelve

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06/25/2021 08:19 PM

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Re: Discussion: Star Trek Transporters , souls and consciousness
Spock
TheFool
Bajoran lightship ~ guest

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06/25/2021 08:29 PM

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Re: Discussion: Star Trek Transporters , souls and consciousness
But weren't they simply moving matter from one spot really really fast? There were distance limitations on them .. why?



Have you ever considered how fast our solar system is moving through the universe right now?


Does that mean we are soulless ... simply because we are moving fast? Don't you think that if we have a soul (way beyond simple evolution or simply using evolution as a tool) someone would have planned for ... speed?


I don't see how their transporter would destroy the interface the soul uses for our vessels.
***All in my opinion of course***
Anonymous Coward
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06/25/2021 08:32 PM
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Re: Discussion: Star Trek Transporters , souls and consciousness
Short story was written about this in the 1950s. I read it as a kid. Cant remember the name of the book or author. A woman wrote it. Losing your soul in a transporter.
Anonymous Coward
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06/25/2021 08:36 PM
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Re: Discussion: Star Trek Transporters , souls and consciousness
Consciousness is based on quantum effects and entanglements.

Sub atomic.

Energetic.
Sungaze_At_Dawn

User ID: 79835284
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06/25/2021 08:38 PM

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Re: Discussion: Star Trek Transporters , souls and consciousness
OK, starting here with quantum physics, years and years ago, watched a documentary on how everything is reformed, disappears and recreated, with each change. And change occurs in nano seconds. But its also all recorded like snapshots, but there is no time so its non linear snapshots, however everything is recreated as it should be. But mind/consciousness could make changes in this, this could also lead to law of affinity/attraction or quantum healing.

And in between those nano seconds, your soul or consciousness isn't being reformatted. You don't notice its so fast. However, the thing is, people do get checkups and missing time, and so sometimes those spaces between the nano seconds could be utilized by higher ups who don't let you keep your memories. But I'm certain everyone has had enlightening moments inbetween shifts like that that happen all the time.

Tom Bearden's book, excalibur one I think, with a huge bibliography at the back citing the enormous amounts of studies done throughout the last century that were reproduced often, therefore more substantiated.

This isn't tangible, the universe. And our Consciousness interacts with every single plane of existence even time. Its more of a group shared reality, so there is a shared platform, apparently with some rules but we can heal and affect things, some are more gifted than others with this, probably everyone diversified with talents to nudge others, wake them up, progress people forward.



That is the best background for this:


You are not your body. I remember coming in as an adult, kind of like a light beam or shooting star, but mature had some purpose, then rosy glow of a snug drum like womb. And I remember my childhood from about 2 weeks on, all the highlight moments.

So when the wave/particle, your body, disintegrates and reforms, you don't do that with it. You're having an OBE, out of body experience. If its very fast, you're naturally anchored to your body and would go back like in NDE's do.



But there is a problem, at least here in dangerous realms, I don't think its fantastic idea.

As a background mechanism it already happens to us all the time and light is crystaline harddrive technology almost and we're preserved in snapshots.


But I also worry that technically your artificial disintegration in this lower realm where no one knows, unlike being filled in and therefore off the hook and in control on higher realms, could almost be considered suicide or death as its willful, which means it may not be you in the body, but someone else jumped in and took your spot.

That may not be possible but I'm not taking that chance.



To me, opening a portal and walking through, or flying through, is the safest from a higher tech perspective.

Last Edited by Sungaze_At_Dawn on 06/25/2021 08:43 PM
Anonymous Coward
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06/25/2021 08:40 PM
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Re: Discussion: Star Trek Transporters , souls and consciousness
spiritual technology

give the grumpy old grey a taste of Earth life
Anonymous Coward
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06/25/2021 08:59 PM
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Re: Discussion: Star Trek Transporters , souls and consciousness
But weren't they simply moving matter from one spot really really fast? There were distance limitations on them .. why?



Have you ever considered how fast our solar system is moving through the universe right now?


Does that mean we are soulless ... simply because we are moving fast? Don't you think that if we have a soul (way beyond simple evolution or simply using evolution as a tool) someone would have planned for ... speed?


I don't see how their transporter would destroy the interface the soul uses for our vessels.
 Quoting: TheFool


I’ve had many an out of body deal where my “soul” left me and hung out top corner of the room.

It’s not pleasant losing your soul, in fact it’s terrifying but that a different subject.

My point is that my “soul” came back into my head. And made me whole again.

Now if I was transponder up into a ship I have no doubt my “soul “ would follow and inhabit my restructured body.
Ozicell

User ID: 80527050
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06/25/2021 09:03 PM

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Re: Discussion: Star Trek Transporters , souls and consciousness
Hi all,

Yes this has been discussed time and time again on these forums, as a thought experiment the use of Star Trek transporters in my mind proves that as humans we don’t really have genuine consciousness or what you would say truly sentient and proves we don't have a “soul”.

In the Star Trek world transporter technology works by a computer which scans your whole body down to the atomic level and state, It then dematerialises you (you cease to be), stores that pattern in a pattern buffer and then sends the data to the remote site in which somehow you are re-materialised presumably using energy from somewhere else.

A copy/facsimile, the me before i was dematerialised ceased to be and the new me thinks i am he.


Lots to discuss, when i think about this I often think about “am i the same person from the night before am I the same person I was 10 minutes ago? Is me 10 minutes ago now a dead version of who I am now? Only through the passage of time do we think we are sentient.... a truly sentient being would not need time for its thoughts to process from beginning to end .

This brings me onto the “ship of Theseus”

“In the metaphysics of identity, the ship of Theseus is a thought experiment that raises the question of whether an object that has had all of its components replaced remains fundamentally the same object”

Any how lots of random / tenuous rambling ..

Your thoughts😜
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 23899402


The body that is dematerialized and rematerialized is simply a vessel - it is not YOU! For that matter, the body you have today is a totally different body than you had when you were a child or even 10 years ago - yet you are still YOU!
That which is - has already been, And what is to be - has already been. Quote: King Solomon.
Ozicell

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06/25/2021 09:06 PM

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Re: Discussion: Star Trek Transporters , souls and consciousness
Today you drive a Ford, yesterday you drove a Ferrari, and the day before that you drove a VW. Which car are you? The Ford, the Ferrari, or the VW?

You are the driver of the vessel or vehicle, you are not the vehicle itself!
That which is - has already been, And what is to be - has already been. Quote: King Solomon.
Anonymous Coward
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06/25/2021 09:43 PM
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Re: Discussion: Star Trek Transporters , souls and consciousness
I've got a female relative who I witnessed levitating 6 inches in the air in the lotus position above the living room sofa and plonk back down upon realising she had done it! I have also witnessed a coin materialise drop out of thin air and hit her on the knee.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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07/01/2021 07:16 PM
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Re: Discussion: Star Trek Transporters , souls and consciousness
Continuity, is the key. Like the ship of Theseus the ship was replaced bit by bit so was aware of bits being replaced bit by bit so it was the same ship. But if that ship was suddenly replaced as a whole then it wouldn’t be the same ship. It would be A copy of the original, thus not the same ship.

Is this not the same as a transporter?


If i had my consiouness And could validate through the process that I didn’t die or still aware I knew me was still me on the other side.





GLP