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| 07:17 AM | ||
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| Pageviews Today: 568,176 | Threads Today: 174 | Posts Today: 3,340 |
| 07:17 AM | ||
Honest question - trying to understand western culture - which would you choose, life in a cage, or your hand? | |
| Islamic__Guy Offer Upgrade  User ID: 350794  Canada01/08/2008 09:54 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Blimped User ID: 327435  United States01/08/2008 10:06 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 303205 Canada01/08/2008 10:08 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 303205 Canada01/08/2008 10:09 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 351608 United States01/08/2008 10:09 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 303205 Canada01/08/2008 10:10 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| The Guy User ID: 349666 United States01/08/2008 10:11 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Honest question - trying to understand western culture - which would you choose, life in a cage, or your hand? We are raised to view a prison sentence, or a quick death, as the only civilized punishments for criminals. Personally I'd rather avoid the prison sentence or losing the hand. I guess I'd adjust to the missing hand easier than the missing twenty years. I'd rather just not be a criminal, though. It's good to be open-minded, just don't let your brain fall out. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 284011 United States01/08/2008 10:14 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Honest question - trying to understand western culture - which would you choose, life in a cage, or your hand? Um, not having your hand is the life sentence. It ain't comin back. Reality is that no matter what the "books" say, most people get paroled after a couple years anyway. Hell, I just watched a show last night about a serial killer who only got 8 years for MURDER. He was paroled only to get out and kill more people. Isn't America great? |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 303205 Canada01/08/2008 10:16 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Honest question - trying to understand western culture - which would you choose, life in a cage, or your hand? We are raised to view a prison sentence, or a quick death, as the only civilized punishments for criminals. Personally I'd rather avoid the prison sentence or losing the hand. I guess I'd adjust to the missing hand easier than the missing twenty years. I'd rather just not be a criminal, though. Quoting: The Guylol, thats probably the wisest choice. I personally believe the old west had the perfect system. Everything was done in hot blood. I don't believe in "controlled" justice, its just chilling. If someone wrongs you, society should have the innate capacity to allow duels. its perfect. And I believe less barbaric that "letting" the system fuck you - hand or prison sentence. I just watched an episode of deadwood where these two grown men fought bare-handed to the dead. One guy got his eye gouged out and was clubbed with a log until he died. This was in the middle of town, and the sheriff just watched. That to me is how it ought to be between victim and perp. If someone steals from me and I find out who, I should be allowed to dispense justice myself. Its harsh, but nobody said freedom was 'nice'. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 150446 United States01/08/2008 10:16 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Honest question - trying to understand western culture - which would you choose, life in a cage, or your hand? Islamic Guy presents an interesting case, but chopping off body parts is seen worldwide as TORTURE. Most countries have prisons and do NOT consider it torture. So, it really doesn't matter what the criminal's preference would be. Now Islamic Guy, let's hear your view on inflicting 100 lashes on a woman's back for the "crime" of talking with a male friend, without a "male relative escort" of the woman. |
| Islamic__Guy (OP) User ID: 350794 Canada01/08/2008 10:22 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Honest question - trying to understand western culture - which would you choose, life in a cage, or your hand? Um, not having your hand is the life sentence. It ain't comin back. Reality is that no matter what the "books" say, most people get paroled after a couple years anyway. Hell, I just watched a show last night about a serial killer who only got 8 years for MURDER. He was paroled only to get out and kill more people. Isn't America great? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 284011Well murder is a different scenario entirely, under Islamic law this person would likely be killed, unless the victims family wished to spare him... It would be better for them to forgive the killer, but it's their choice... They could sue him for blood money and take everything he owns if they choose to forgive, so they might go that route, but this scenario is beyond the scope of this thread. . . . . Do you realize how much it costs to run for office? More than any honest man could afford. -Montgomery Burns |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 284011 United States01/08/2008 10:26 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Honest question - trying to understand western culture - which would you choose, life in a cage, or your hand? Well murder is a different scenario entirely, under Islamic law this person would likely be killed, unless the victims family wished to spare him... Quoting: Islamic__GuyIt would be better for them to forgive the killer, but it's their choice... They could sue him for blood money and take everything he owns if they choose to forgive, so they might go that route, but this scenario is beyond the scope of this thread. Definitely. I'm just saying, if a guy can get by on 8 years for murder here, they probably won't spend much time in jail for robbery. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 201419 United States01/08/2008 10:26 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Honest question - trying to understand western culture - which would you choose, life in a cage, or your hand? I think sentences are just as much about punishment as they are about protection. Society doesn't have to worry about the convicted guy for 20 years perpetrating more crimes. Of course, with one less hand, the person will be less able to commit crimes ... My question: Which sentence better protects society? |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 227259  United Kingdom01/08/2008 10:28 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Honest question - trying to understand western culture - which would you choose, life in a cage, or your hand? Its an interesting question ... but would it work in western society where much value (right or wrong) is placed on appearances? If a guy legitimately loses a hand - will he not also be subject to some kind of stigma? |
| Islamic__Guy (OP) User ID: 350794 Canada01/08/2008 10:28 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Honest question - trying to understand western culture - which would you choose, life in a cage, or your hand? Islamic Guy presents an interesting case, but chopping off body parts is seen worldwide as TORTURE. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 150446Most countries have prisons and do NOT consider it torture. So, it really doesn't matter what the criminal's preference would be. Now Islamic Guy, let's hear your view on inflicting 100 lashes on a woman's back for the "crime" of talking with a male friend, without a "male relative escort" of the woman. I believe it is against Islamic law. Lashing someone for speaking is not Islamic, it is not a Quranic punishment. However lashing for adultery is. I 100% agree with it. Adultery left unchecked ruins a society, ruins children, ruins families, and leaves nothing but victims in it's wake. If people want to cheat, they should get divorced first. Especially in third world countries where a break of that structure can cause people to literally perish from lack of family support, it is CRUCIAL that the moral structure, and the family structure remain intact, and everyone lives up to their responsibilities. . . . . Do you realize how much it costs to run for office? More than any honest man could afford. -Montgomery Burns |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 284011 United States01/08/2008 10:30 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Honest question - trying to understand western culture - which would you choose, life in a cage, or your hand? Its an interesting question ... but would it work in western society where much value (right or wrong) is placed on appearances? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 227259If a guy legitimately loses a hand - will he not also be subject to some kind of stigma? Violence only begets more violence. We have a responsibility to separate criminals from society but not to become one ourselves by maiming another human. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 284011 United States01/08/2008 10:31 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Honest question - trying to understand western culture - which would you choose, life in a cage, or your hand? I believe it is against Islamic law. Quoting: Islamic__GuyLashing someone for speaking is not Islamic, it is not a Quranic punishment. However lashing for adultery is. I 100% agree with it. Adultery left unchecked ruins a society, ruins children, ruins families, and leaves nothing but victims in it's wake. If people want to cheat, they should get divorced first. Especially in third world countries where a break of that structure can cause people to literally perish from lack of family support, it is CRUCIAL that the moral structure, and the family structure remain intact, and everyone lives up to their responsibilities. The "family" structure as you see it serves only to subjugate women and children. |
| a passing cloud User ID: 222706 United States01/08/2008 10:34 AM  Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Honest question - trying to understand western culture - which would you choose, life in a cage, or your hand? "life isn't THAT good"  you have expressed the forbidden thought; your opinion has been invalidated. if you persist in asserting this forbidden viewpoint, YOU will be invalidated  so that WE, the shareholders in the investment scheme called LIFE, can rest assured again that our investment is sound. why did i send myself to this world?? there must have been a reason. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 304696 United States01/08/2008 10:35 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Islamic__Guy (OP) User ID: 350794 Canada01/08/2008 10:36 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Honest question - trying to understand western culture - which would you choose, life in a cage, or your hand? I think sentences are just as much about punishment as they are about protection. Society doesn't have to worry about the convicted guy for 20 years perpetrating more crimes. Of course, with one less hand, the person will be less able to commit crimes ... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 201419My question: Which sentence better protects society? Well the hand doesn't COST society... It must be difficult to pay for three meals a day, facilities, guards, transpotation, counselling, hydro, water, etc, etc... For a large inmate population like they have in the U.S. this must run into the millions, right? So it isn't "the government" paying that...it's YOU. It's your tax money. That must piss people off, no? --------------------------------- As far as re-offending? Well you only have two hands and two feet, so if you are stupid enough to keep offending you had better learn to crawl really well, and use your mouth for things... . . . . Do you realize how much it costs to run for office? More than any honest man could afford. -Montgomery Burns |
| The Anti-Hero User ID: 215094 United States01/08/2008 10:36 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Honest question - trying to understand western culture - which would you choose, life in a cage, or your hand? They have a gym, a library, access to the internet, cable TV. These are some things that some FREE people can't afford. No wonder crime is on the rise. People want what they can't afford. It's not that people don't want to work for these things, but understand, there is NO WAY in hell I would work 3 jobs just to afford them. |
| Islamic__Guy (OP) User ID: 350794 Canada01/08/2008 10:38 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Honest question - trying to understand western culture - which would you choose, life in a cage, or your hand? Violence only begets more violence. We have a responsibility to separate criminals from society but not to become one ourselves by maiming another human. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 284011So you would take the life sentence? . . . . Do you realize how much it costs to run for office? More than any honest man could afford. -Montgomery Burns |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 303205 Canada01/08/2008 10:39 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Honest question - trying to understand western culture - which would you choose, life in a cage, or your hand? Eastern culture has it right. Islamic law, a variation on basic eastern culture is correct in its punishments. I say this as a christian. What would be more correct, however, is to forgive and before even that, to teach morality properly from a position of compassion. Adultery is a huge issue that has been trivialized by western culture. I mean, we have humour based on such a life ruining issue. The biblical punishment for adultery is worse than Islam's ie: death. The following things deserve death according to Mosaic law: Murder Rape Adultery Bestiality Homosexuality Witchcraft (There could be more, but they're pretty obscure.) And the death wasn't kind. You were supposed to be killed by having the town bash you over the head with a rock until you died. Or thrown of a cliff, or pelted with stones. Stoning. But the higher law is the law of liberty in Christ, for he died for such as those who commited those things. So asking which law is better is a moot point, for all godly law has already been fulfilled. Now the issue is just a social one. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 150446 United States01/08/2008 10:39 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Honest question - trying to understand western culture - which would you choose, life in a cage, or your hand? This gets even MORE interesting. Islamic Guy who writes in a "westernized" way,( the better for us to comprehend ) now says that he AGREES that lashing someone with a whip is correct punishment for adultery. Are you one of the GLP folks who call waterboarding torture, but whipping someone say 50 or 100 times ISN'T ? Or are you saying that TORTURE is an appropriate punishment ? In my view, intentionally inflicting extreme pain on someone for a sexual betrayal, is torture. I would think that as human beings, we would have similar ideas worldwide about what is appropriate societal behavior. The fact that that is not the case, is extremely distressing to me, as there are still Muslim fathers who murder their own daughters for what they BELIEVE is a "shaming of the family". It doesn't seem to occur to these evil pigs, that murder is FAR worse than causing shame.Yet, you still find Muslim men who defend the behavior as "justified". Islam and in fact many other organized religions are bizarre and sadistic, something we should not wish to allow to continue to exist. Other than Jesus Christ, it is hard to name more than a couple religious figures ( Buddha, Gandhi ) throughout all of history, who did not make the world a MUCH WORSE place, than before they came along. The world would be MUCH better off now, if Mohammed had never existed. Sad, but true. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 303205 Canada01/08/2008 10:42 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Honest question - trying to understand western culture - which would you choose, life in a cage, or your hand? This gets even MORE interesting. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 150446Islamic Guy who writes in a "westernized" way,( the better for us to comprehend ) now says that he AGREES that lashing someone with a whip is correct punishment for adultery. Are you one of the GLP folks who call waterboarding torture, but whipping someone say 50 or 100 times ISN'T ? Or are you saying that TORTURE is an appropriate punishment ? In my view, intentionally inflicting extreme pain on someone for a sexual betrayal, is torture. I would think that as human beings, we would have similar ideas worldwide about what is appropriate societal behavior. The fact that that is not the case, is extremely distressing to me, as there are still Muslim fathers who murder their own daughters for what they BELIEVE is a "shaming of the family". It doesn't seem to occur to these evil pigs, that murder is FAR worse than causing shame.Yet, you still find Muslim men who defend the behavior as "justified". Islam and in fact many other organized religions are bizarre and sadistic, something we should not wish to allow to continue to exist. Other than Jesus Christ, it is hard to name more than a couple religious figures ( Buddha, Gandhi ) throughout all of history, who did not make the world a MUCH WORSE place, than before they came along. The world would be MUCH better off now, if Mohammed had never existed. Sad, but true. The world is what YOU make it, not Jesus or Mohammed. They realized this and you just take it. Nobody makes you do anything, you're just a wimp. |
| Sireen-reborn User ID: 335827 United States01/08/2008 10:42 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Honest question - trying to understand western culture - which would you choose, life in a cage, or your hand? I think I'll take prison. At least there, I'm guarenteed a place to sleep, food, and I could get a degree for free. Might make a few friends, might deal with a few enemies...but it's worth it to keep my hand. anything after 'but' is bullshit! [link to www.myspace.com] "Once you open your mind to the possibility of conspiracy, you then see conspiracy in everything." [link to deadbydecember-sireen.blogspot.com] |
| Islamic__Guy (OP) User ID: 350794 Canada01/08/2008 10:43 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Honest question - trying to understand western culture - which would you choose, life in a cage, or your hand? This gets even MORE interesting. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 150446Islamic Guy who writes in a "westernized" way,( the better for us to comprehend ) now says that he AGREES that lashing someone with a whip is correct punishment for adultery. Are you one of the GLP folks who call waterboarding torture, but whipping someone say 50 or 100 times ISN'T ? Or are you saying that TORTURE is an appropriate punishment ? In my view, intentionally inflicting extreme pain on someone for a sexual betrayal, is torture. I would think that as human beings, we would have similar ideas worldwide about what is appropriate societal behavior. The fact that that is not the case, is extremely distressing to me, as there are still Muslim fathers who murder their own daughters for what they BELIEVE is a "shaming of the family". It doesn't seem to occur to these evil pigs, that murder is FAR worse than causing shame.Yet, you still find Muslim men who defend the behavior as "justified". Islam and in fact many other organized religions are bizarre and sadistic, something we should not wish to allow to continue to exist. Other than Jesus Christ, it is hard to name more than a couple religious figures ( Buddha, Gandhi ) throughout all of history, who did not make the world a MUCH WORSE place, than before they came along. The world would be MUCH better off now, if Mohammed had never existed. Sad, but true. So you would choose the prison term? The thread is super specific. I don't want it sidetracked, and hijacked like almost every thread I post here. Thanks. . . . . Do you realize how much it costs to run for office? More than any honest man could afford. -Montgomery Burns |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 303205 Canada01/08/2008 10:44 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 227259 United Kingdom01/08/2008 10:44 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Honest question - trying to understand western culture - which would you choose, life in a cage, or your hand? Its an interesting question ... but would it work in western society where much value (right or wrong) is placed on appearances? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 284011If a guy legitimately loses a hand - will he not also be subject to some kind of stigma? Violence only begets more violence. We have a responsibility to separate criminals from society but not to become one ourselves by maiming another human. Yeah - I get that. Its the same clichéd response - like nobody has ever thunk it before. It doesn't solve the problem of prison over crowding and perpetual law breaking does it? It stands in the absence of an alternative. Not that I advocate the cutting of limbs which personally I find barbaric ... but if the cap fits, let them wear it. If you lost an arm because of thieving and you already knew that was the penalty for thieving - then why the hell did you thieve? That is called accountability ... which I'm afraid in Western Blame-Centric (quick find someone to pin this on) society is impossible. Islamic guy ... what happens when someone is found to be innocent after the removal of his hand? In western society that would result in law suits and screams of suing and boo hooing. |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 227259 United Kingdom01/08/2008 10:47 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Honest question - trying to understand western culture - which would you choose, life in a cage, or your hand? I really don't know. I love playing my piano so losing a hand would really be a set back, and the previous poster did have a point regarding our Prison sentencing laws... Quoting: Sireen-rebornI think I'll take prison. At least there, I'm guarenteed a place to sleep, food, and I could get a degree for free. Might make a few friends, might deal with a few enemies...but it's worth it to keep my hand. What about not commiting the crime in the first place? Surely the use of your hand is motivation for you to abstain from crime? |
| Anonymous Coward User ID: 150446 United States01/08/2008 10:57 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Honest question - trying to understand western culture - which would you choose, life in a cage, or your hand? Islamic Guy, I am sorry if I appeared to evade your original question. I really do not know whether I would choose to lose the hand or take the prison term, but IF you are saying that once the hand is chopped off, I would be completely free to resume my life, or move to another country, then I suppose I actually would prefer my freedom, and give up the hand. The idea of being locked up in a prison would be so horrific to me,I would be suicidal,and I am not kidding. Guess what ? I am very law abiding. |
