Why is the rapture so hated and makes so many angry? Almost like demonic forces want it suppressed. Why hatred?

People there is no such thing as the rapture. The verses people use to support the rapture are verses that describe the translation from this body to the new body. This happens to every single believer at the death of this body.

It is appointed unto man ONCE TO DIE.

You by any chance a trinitarian? You have 3 Gods in 1 or something of the sort?

Sunday keeper? 7th day sabbath was done away with kinda guy? Everyday is the sabbath thinker?

Maybe partake of christmas and easter celebrations?

Think the dead are in heaven or hell? Not asleep in a dreamless state, but either burning in agony or living it up in heaven?

Any of those fit the bill mate?

Last Edited by LightShines on 09/16/2021 12:49 PM

NO one can if say their hearts will still be beating 5 minutes from now. Yet, a man will curse another man for having a different understanding of end times prophecy, and what does he accomplish with that except to grieve the Holy Spirit?

Just went back to the very beginning and viewed the whole thread. Still do not see a lot of scripture posted from pre-tribbers. A lot of conjecture and opinions but not a lot of scripture.

What is your favorite pre-trib scripture?

The only One who can sort it all out, is God...

Indeed. We need to trust God with whatever happens in the future. We don't need to pretend to have all the answers and curse, deride, insult, or redicule others thinking we know better than them. We are just dust.

"In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."


These 2 verses by themselves destroy the 1000 year reign being on earth.

Jesus is in heaven (New Jerusalem) preparing us mansions and dwellings, yet at His 2nd coming He leaves New Jerusalem and His Father behind, and hangs out on earth for 1000 years for "reasons"?

They are suffering tribulation/persecution, the sufferings of this present time, and the course of this evil world. But they are not suffering God's wrath nor judgement.

God is offering spiritual salvation to the world but not physical deliverance from suffering during this dispensation of The Grace of God to to the Gentiles/Nations and Ethnicities. God is conforming His sons and daughters into the image of His Son, the Lord Jesus, through the operation of the word of God dwelling in us richly, manifesting Christ in us to both angels and men. No physical miracles, but all spiritual blessings of the riches freely given us in Christ and Christ in us. We walk and live by faith, not sight.

Asking God to deliver us physically is against what God is doing now, and is ignorant of His purposes. Israels program is earthly and God deals with them thru signs and wonders, healings, miracles, etc. Sorry, but no physical deliverance today. God is all about the spiritual miracles and Christ living in us and manifesting his word working in us. God is not arbitralily delivering and healing believers. What He does, He does for all believers without preference for one over another.

Rom 8: v17. And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with [him,] that we may be also glorified together.
v18. For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time [are] not worthy [to be compared] with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

v23. And not only [they,] but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit,] the redemption of our body.
v24. For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

v28. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.

v35. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? [shall] tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
v36. As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
v37. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
v38. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
v39. Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Lol.

There is no pre trib rapture.

You arent getting out of here easy.

Just plain talk.

God wrote the 10 Commandments with His Finger.

Father God dictated the Torah to Moses.

God had angels dictate the Torah to Ezra's scribes,
since no scrolls existed at that point in time.

All other scripture is written by "imspiration" - NOT "dictated by the Holy Spirit".

The Holy Spirit merely reminded each writer of what either the Father Himseld said - OR what Jesus had said.

The way we treat others who have differing views on the end times prophecies is a test in itself.

"Let no unwholesome word proceed from your mouth, but only such a word as is good for edification according to the need of the moment, so that it will give grace to those who hear. Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also has forgiven you." - Ephesians 4:29-32

Last Edited by Weyoun on 09/16/2021 01:45 PM

Wrong interpretation.

If what you say is true, then there's NO Reason for Jesus to return to earth.

Gog and Magog - Armegeddon - happen on earth.
WHY?
Because that is where Jesus will have been reigning.

"The nations" only exist on earth.

Gog and Magog are after the 1000 years. When the wicked are raised.

1Co 15: v51. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
v52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
v53. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.

1Th 4: v13. But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
v14. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
v15. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
v16. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
v17. Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

No pre-trib rapture.

Compare what Paul and Jesus said.

See how these verses are ALL the same event. They compare what Paul said to what Jesus said.

1. Notice that Verses 16 & 17 are pretty much EXACTLY what Jesus says in the Gospel descriptions.


1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all nopes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Mark 13:26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Mark 14:62 And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

.....

2. Then notice how well Paul's verses 15 & 17 match....


1 Thessalonians 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mark 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Raised from WHERE?

On earth.
For the final BATTLE ON earth.

Yes it is on earth. After the 1000 years (in heaven) it is time for the wicked to be destroyed and the earth to be made new.

Once that is done New Jerusalem, which descends from God out of heaven (with the saints already in it), becomes the capital of the universe.

Agree except to note that The marriage Supper of the Lamb and the bride of Christ is part of Israels prophetic Scripture and not written to the Body of Christ. Two different groups in view. One, the body, is rewarded with Christ at "the judgement seat of Christ, taking place in heaven after the dispensation changes at the "rapture event", the resurrection of His body. His bride, the Little Flock of the Remnant of Israel, takes place at the beginning of His promised Kingdom reign on Earth.

Tip🙂
Noting that you are mixing the two programs in some ways. Research Mid-acts Right Division" doctrine and see if it doesnt clear up all the confusion!

Berean Bible Society, history and books nd teachings on Mid Acts view, meaning this dispensation begins not at Acts 2, but with the calling of Paul in Acts 9.

Enjoy The Bible Ministry, Pastor Keith Blades, now deceased, teaching the sonship doctrine delivered by Paul.

Millennium Bible Institute, Pastor Michael McDaniel@ GraceAge.org.

Satan and minions hate truth and light.

The Bible says differently. Isa 57:1 The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away, none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come.

Rapture means the Messiah will come. It's good news.
So why not welcome it?
Welcome the Messiah.

The division is among those who rightly divide the Word ss Paul taught and those who don't. These are the people who scream about Scofield and Darby and Knox. Not understanding that the RCC put out false teaching and twisted scripture to suit their evil agenda for centuries.

Now Methodists, akme Baptists, etc, other denominations teach mostly nonsense.

Paul was the aposlte to the body of Christ, given His mission and knowledge by Jesus directly. You can't read the Bible as if every passage applies to every person who ever lived. If that is true, than it is full of contradictions and problems.

God has worked differently in different dispensations. Paul says thar he is the apostle for this age of grace.

Revelation is written for the J--- in the Trib, to instruct them. Jesus's earthly ministry was to them as well, not the Gentiles. None of the teachings to the J--- apply to the body. It is easy to see and Paul teaches grace through faith.

The problem is that those who grew up listening to denominational teaching usually never read much for themselves and they can't break out of the false teachings. So now you have people who are trying to follow mosaic law, they believe in the Catholic concept of suffering and taking part in the crucifixion with Christ, which is blatant heresy, just like mass and crucifying Christ over and over. It was done once, for all mankind.

The snatching away of the body snd all the obvious differences between it and the second coming, that does not matter to these people. They want religion, they want pride, they want to not have been misled their whole life and they cant humble themselves to read the Bible for themselves and its plain sense meaning. And this is coming from an ex Methodist who had to go through years of religious nuttiness.

So no, you will never win a debate with them. They cannot and will not believe that Jesus did it all, that they are part of the Body of Christ and under grace, and they can't believe God loves them enough to save them out of His wrath, even though He says He will.

Christianity is not a religion. It is a person, Christ Jesus. Trust in Him and be saved. He did it all.

I will add, there are many good moral lessons and ethical teaching anyone can take from the OT. But we cannot apply the promises of God to the J---- to the Body of Christ. Totally different things and different dispensations.

This!!!!

endure unto the end
keepeth my works

Mal 3:6 For I [am] the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.



Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Appears to be a lot more then just people from Israel. Something is wrong with your doctrine.

Last Edited by Achduke7 on 09/16/2021 03:29 PM

Important message. As the bride we need to always be ready. No matter what your view on the rapture is.

This thread is all about arguments and hateful judgements over something that has been argued for a century.

The belief in the Messiah, the belief he HAD to die for our sins to offer you salvation.

TO KEEP HIS TEACHINGS and honestly repent, deny yourself, and forgive and forgive and forgive. Many of us sin everyday and we are forgiven. We must learn to forgive or we are hypocrites and the Father has a problem with them,

You aren't even understanding what it being stated.

God works differently in different dispensationa, as Paul says. God does NOT change, He works using a different method in different timelines. One reading through the Bible shows this easily.

God created. Man fell. God had a plan to bring forth a Messiah. He created Is----. They were promised a redeemer. Jesus fulfilled all of the prophecies and came. They rejected Him. They crucified Him. The mystery revealed to Paul was that God's plan had always been to offer Jesus up as payment for man's sins. Once that happened, God turned to the gentiles and offered them grace and redemption through Christ by grace through faith. Christ fulfilled the law and now everyone could be saved by believing He did the whole work and placing their faith in that work.

Christian's are given the Holy Spirit once they place their faith in Him and Him alone for salvation. A process kf sanctification then happens a saved person's life and God uses them where He will to bring others into the Body of Christ. A totally different plan and dispensation. The boss at a job can have the same character and personality, and he will use different methods and plans at different times during the work. It does not mean the boss changed, he just isn't working the same way. Paul teachs this.

As far as that being only Is----, no one ever said that. That would be all the born again Christians John saw, from every nation and tribe, throughout history. They were there when He was taken up and shown the end. Because they had been raptured.

Your theology and Biblical knowledge has been severly twisted by someone somewhere. Just read the Bible, keep it in context, look at who is being written to and divide the Scripture to show thyself approved as Paul wrote.

Paul teaches God gives the gentiles grace to provoke J--- to jealousy.


Romans 11:11 I say then: Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid! But rather, through their fall salvation has come unto the Gentiles to provoke them to jealousy

Every human ever saved has been saved by grace.