Evolution

Mutations are almost never beneficial.

Do you believe in a continuous chain of beneficial mutations improving every species?

"Mutants" are fucked up.

But your faith says mutants are the very process of evolution.

Dude... that is incredibly stupid.

You have to be thoroughly indoctrinated to believe and repeat what you yourself would otherwise readily admit as serious stupidity.

The preachers of evolution deny common-sense to declare that accidental explosions of randomness eventually accidentally come to life and then mutate into Mozart, Shakespeare and Steve Jobs.

Here is a rough depiction of evolution.



- The video is wrong.

Lightening strike, magic happens. Heres where I'm struggling. That accounts for one life form.

- No, many may be created or none. Most aren’t life but instead complex molecules like viruses. Actually less than virus.

How do you account for all the varients of life and trees and plants?

- That’s the whole thing about evolution, you give a creature a drier climate it adapts or it dies. Give one species that can reproduce at a high rate enough time and some will survive in almost any climate. You have to look at the whole planet and the changes going on, like mountain formation, erosion, and ice ages.

Were they all created by individual lightening strikes to create their own variation of what evolution leads them to become in something like present day?

- No, this is not evolution. Evolution is not (pouph) magic. The lightning strike may create several different viable forms of reproducible proteins. Those evolve into more complex proteins and after a very long time some change into life as we know it.

What was different about all these lightening strikes to create the variations we see now in forms of life?

- This is not evolution. It’s absurd.

What about the water?

- Water is good. -? Life on earth requires water, on other planets there may be life from silicon or methane.

Where did that come from?

- Water came from comets and early atmosphere creation.

Am I to believe earth was bombarded with ice meteors or something to that effect?

- No you don’t have to believe anything at all, but the earth is covered in craters and is covered in water. Look up solar system creation to help.

That's quite a strike given the volume of water?

- No lots of little strikes filled the oceans.

The lightening strikes that caused life to form and the ice meteors - how come we dont see this phenomenon occur now?

- We do. Mostly they are undersea or in hot springs around volcanoes. Also, the simpler forms of life are already here, so if a lightning bolt hits a warm sea full of minerals it creates life that already exists.

Birth, healing, every resource to sustain each life form, carefully working in balance. So we were created by aliens?

- No evidence of alien interaction.

Who created them?

- No evidence of aliens.

How did there fluke of evolution occur?

- Evolution is not a fluke, it was inevitable.

Same lightening strike as earth?

- Yes it can happen on other planets in other places at other times.

This fluke phenomenon seems wide spread if it created life else where?

- Yes, the universe is rather large.

Doesnt seem such a fluke if its wide spread on other planets?

- We don’t know if it is widespread on other planets. There are an abundance of organic molecules on other planets which points towards life of some kind.

What am I missing. Do we take for granted what we see and not realise the marvel that is in front of us? Life.

- Life is a marvel whether you believe in evolution, Christian creation, or any of the other thousand creation myths.

If you put earth life outside the atmosphere most of it will die. Some life forms may stay viable for very long time and may ‘pollute’ nearby planets with life.

The opposite is true as well.

It’s late … sleepy …

This is my thinking as well. The narrsti e doesnt fit.

If macroevolution were true, there would not be billions of different species, there would be one and it would be a bivalve, asexual thing...

Nature would not make things overly complex...Complexity is the result of intelligent design, variety comes from the imagination...

What? That's completely backwards. Macroevolution causes speciation, which is observable. Populations divide into sub populations. That's how we get different dog breeds from the grey wolf.



Again, completely backwards. Simplicity is the hallmark of design. It's not intelligent to build a thing that is more complicated than necessary, which life forms tend to be.

Here is a rough depiction of evolution.



Lightening strike, magic happens. Heres where I'm struggling. That accounts for one life form. How do you account for all the varients of life and trees and plants? Were they all created by individual lightening strikes to create their own variation of what evolution leads them to become in something like present day? What was different about all these lightening strikes to create the variations we see now in forms of life? What about the water? Where did that come from? Am I to believe earth was bombarded with ice meteors or something to that effect? That's quite a strike given the volume of water? The lightening strikes that caused life to form and the ice meteors - how come we dont see this phenomenon occur now? Birth, healing, every resource to sustain each life form, carefully working in balance. So we were created by aliens? Who created them? How did there fluke of evolution occur? Same lightening strike as earth? This fluke phenomenon seems wide spread if it created life else where? Doesnt seem such a fluke if its wide spread on other planets? What am I missing. Do we take for granted what we see and not realise the marvel that is in front of us? Life.

Interesting statement! What features do we have that are over complicated? Curious, what would you change if you were the creator?

I dont mind admitting I'm a simpleton, you are right, there is much I dont understand. I guess the question is where did the none living chemicals come from? What made them combine (what kind of natural force would compel them to do that given they are not living?). What conditions does this process need to occur? By that I mean things like water, heat etc, how did these elements come to be?

Thanks for your time, I do appreciate everyone's responses here.

Great observations and valid response to your reasoning. Is it safe to say we dont know everything and there are things that are yet to be apparent. I use the appendix as an example. Long thought to be useless until recently. Should we not respect there are things still unknown to what we can comprehend as a human and science is always making new discoveries proving it is an evolving field rather than 'a matter of fact'. You make an excellent point on the wisdom tooth by the way!

So you would say these points you make, these are as a result of failed evolution? Creating things it shouldn't? Surely the fact it came from molecule and self built its self would indicate it would only build what's necessary as it would need to build its self based on what it needs to survive (or though where it would get the will to do such things I do not know?). I'm still struggling with balance of nature. Did these molecules that formed, do they have a hive mind? How did each one know what to build to support the other? Ie, one becomes food, another becomes a life form that eats the food. It's almost cannabilism of its self?

If macroevolution were true, there would not be billions of different species, there would be one and it would be a bivalve, asexual thing...

Nature would not make things overly complex...Complexity is the result of intelligent design, variety comes from the imagination...

You've gone from evolution to 'explain the entire universe.'

I'll do my best to give you a quick run down of the science.

Where did the non living chemicals come from? So, all elements are made of atoms, which are made of same three subatomic particles: protons, neutrons and electrons. The number and arrangements of these subatomic particles determine which element you get. Hydrogen has 1 proton, and if you add another you get helium. Keep adding and you get all the elements on the periodic table.

These subatomic particles likely came into existence at the big bang. Water is not an element, it is a combination of t2 elements (hydrogen and oxygen). Heat is the result of vibration between atoms.

Next, you need organic material. The miller Urey experiment demonstrated that if you have the right combinations of minerals and gasses (such as what likely existed on the early earth) and you introduce electricity, this will produce the organic materials that are needed for life.

Different atoms have different electrical charges, which can either repel or attract each other. The right materials, in the right environment will bond together to form bigger more complex structures, like nucleotides which are the building blocks of DNA/RNA. This video will explain:

Lol, you are right, that was a bit of a jump from evolution to the universe creation. It is a valid question though because from what I am understanding, that theory does require electricity to start the process. Where did that come from? Is this still a lightening bolt from the clouds that happened or another condition that happens naturally? For example, in my basic understanding, we do have static electricity. There is always the question of where did that come from and it is a very valid one. I'm still not sure where or how these non living cells came to be. The conditions for such thing does extend to the universe question. For that I understand that the big bang theory is what you mention. We cant prove either argument on that. The more you rewind the process, ie, molecule, lightening, water the earth, the universe... how these came to be, the less answers we have, it is all theories. It does amaze me that science is used as proof there is no creator. Many science elements have been provided here. But when we get to the fundamental questions beyond the simple molecule, science's answer is something came from nothing with regards to the big bang. In all that something, planets, ice meteors, atmospheric conditions to create life, this all happened from nothing. This is just an observation and I dont mean to sound patronising if it comes across that way but the end arguments for how it all came to be is either something came from nothing or there is a creator and by acknowledging all the elements needed to create life on your understanding, there are some mighty big question Mark's on how the other elements came to be. If I'm missing something on the big bang aspect, please do explain it to me but go easy and in a way a simpleton can understand!

Electricity: As I said, electrons are one of the three subatomic particles which likely came into existence at the big bang. A bolt of electricity is essentially a chain or electrons flowing between the atoms in a conductor. If you want to know more, research electricity theory.

There are no non-living cells. Only living things are made of cells. Water, minerals, gasses... they aren't made of cells.

The big bang is very well substantiated. 'Theory' does not mean 'unproven.' You can study music theory, germ theory. I had to study motorcycle theory to get my bike license.

The big bang doesn't require that something came from nothing. I strongly implore you to stop learning about science from Creationists, as they have a vested interest in misrepresenting what is says. Science doesn't disprove god, it's simply silent on god because we cant detect or measure god in any way. Young earth Creationism however (which is what Kent Hovind pushes) can be disproved by science.

Creator/came from nothing are not the only two options. If you accept that a creator can be eternal, with no creation... why can't the universe be eternal with no creation? Or what if the universe IS god, like pantheists suggest.

All of the information you're looking for is easily accessible, I'll help where I can, but please, ask one question at a time.

You have been an amazingly patient and respectful poster. I cant thank you enough for just giving me your time because you dont have to at the end of the day, so seriously, thank you. I do have a saying 'what science doesnt know, its yet to discover'. I'm not knocking science as an application. Through science I have learned that sound has shape as demonstrated in the cymatics video posted earlier. You only have to look at what science can do now to know that life can indeed be created. In a separate argument, I often worry there is to much 'could we?' In science rather than 'should we?', with the premises for these discoveries to be seized and used to control life on some form.

It's difficult to explain my understanding of the world is not what it seems. I do come off as crazy but please understand, I have witnessed and experienced some truly mind bending things. Most of it was not pleasant but it really opened to my eyes about what is possible in this world. For example, I had an experience with data (that's the easiest way to out it - it was essentially broadcasts but streamed as we know as data). A computer literate person would say this was a series of 0's and 1's and when asked could this be manipulated in real time to present a unique experience to one viewer and a different experience for another viewer, all streaming from the same data packet then the answer would be no. Yet I have witnessed something that says this is possible. Data as we understand it is not what it seems. It's probably not just the data, I single that out as a desperate grab to bring what I witnessed in to some basic understanding. But my point is, I cant prove this but the world is not what it seems. Things you would think are impossible are infact possible. I dont know how it's done, I just know beneath the surface all is not what it seems. Having experienced what I have, I'm under no illusion there are forces at work. The more I read the bible the more truth it seems to hold. As a stand back and look at nature, I can only marvel in its variety and harmonisation with its enviornment.

Thank you once more for giving the science explination as to how this came to be, a great education regardless of beliefs and a wealth of science information. Many, many thanks to your participation.

I read the entire Bible by the time I was about 12, and the more I read it, the more problems I find.

Genesis is completely at odds with science. It says plants existed before the sun. It says the sun stopped moving in the sky for an entire day. it says you can cure skin conditions by sacrificing birds and splashing their blood around your home.
It says that if a cow looks at striped cloth, it will have striped calves.
The story of Noah's ark is full of problems.

There is balance in nature yes, but it is also quite chaotic. Most species on the earth have gone extinct, and most of the observable universe is completely fatal to all life.

You certainly done a better job than me at reading the bible, especially at such a young age and it only credits the intelligence you have already demonstrated. I'd be lieing if I said I understood everything in the bible, there are many questions I have - but I'm not add odds with my self to go as far that just because I dont understand it, it doesnt make it so. I have watched many near death experience testimonies and seen a pattern in what they report. Yes every experience differentiates to some degree, but the premises of what is experienced holds massive similarities. Like I said, i have experienced some pretty freaky things, i honestly fully understand the ridiculous of such statements and fully acknowledge such things require proof, to which I have none. With regards to that, it wasnt the bible that led me to God, I came about that from a backwards way (watching NDEs) so the bible for me has been more trying to understand at how this is all so. Its taken more than few attempts to get my head around some aspects of it. With regards to Noah's ark, I do find it interesting that virtually all religions state there was a flood, granted the names of those featured varies but the premises remains the same. I've seen some very interesting videos that use google earth to demonstrate mass land movement has occured deep in land with the signature being a massive body of water driving it. Did he have an arc? Someone survived that's for sure. Does that explain every different race we see now? I dont know, maybe I havent got to that part yet.


I do try to approach this from all angles. Before I came across the NDEs, i was heavily into alien documentaries so was more than comfortable in my own.understanding that they exist. I say that because all religions warn of end times, someone new something about the future.. but how? There is a race of a tribe that fails me now to where they are that claim they were assisted by beings from another star. They were warned not to take up the invention of the wheel when it came about and to keep their tribe and understanding to what they knew. Dont be tempted by strangers offering gifts. There would be a time destruction would rain o the earth and that they would be rescued when this time came. Fascinating stuff.

I went through a paranormal phase as a teenager. UFOs, NDEs, demonic possession, telepathy, astral projection... all of that stuff. I started to go a bit off the deep end, and lose touch with reality.

I still try to be open minded, but I now see the importance of skepticism and critical thinking. Every belief you hold changes your perception, and affects the way you perceive reality, which can cause you to build more false beliefs, and it snow balls until you think that aliens are sending you messages through the TV about the end of the world.

You seem curious and eager to learn, but I have to say your thoughts are very scattered and disorganized.

I recommend that you use skepticism, question everything, and refrain from jumping to conclusions. It is better to say 'I don't know' that it is to form a false belief, because -as I said- one false belief affects our worldview and leads to other false beliefs.

This is why science is valuable. It requires us to test our hypothesis, rather than just running with our intuition and accepting what 'feels right.'

This is my thinking as well. The narrsti e doesnt fit.

Nature would not make things overly complex...Complexity is the result of intelligent design, variety comes from the imagination...

I can appreciate that, and even the existence of God. What I cannot accept is that he would choose to incarnate as a man and wander around in the Middle East and then have a book written about himself.
God makes sense; Christianity, Islam and Judslam just make no sense at all.
So, is there a God? In all likelihood, yes. Is he the scary Yahweh storm god fellow in the book.
No.
Humans have and will keep trying to define God and shape Him in their image; an impossible task.

Lol, the amount of times I've heard that is almost laughable now. I fully get what your saying, I've heard that so many times now, you are not alone, it is me that stands alone in the belief of what I witnessed. First time I heard such suggestions really hurt, especially from loved ones, but I'd be lieing if I didnt understand why they thought that. They weren't messages about the end of the world and I didnt claim aliens done it, just so we understand.

The admittance of not knowing things is ok. I would worry more about those that proclaim to know everything. I have had much time to ponder of the events from 2017. I have analysed it from many angles. I work with video foing motion graphics and editing. I fully understood the wonders of what I was witnessing.

It's not just accepting what feels right. It's taking into account as to what I have seen. I dont think these things are possible, I know these things are possible. Just because we dont know how to do it doesnt make it impossible, what science doesnt know, its yet to discover, but it doesnt make it not so because it is not yet known.