im an atheist. debate me!

Our essential nature has never changed. We have always had the ability to perceive 'material' things including sperm and egg.

I was talking to the other guy, who wants to know how consciousness could evolve.

Are you saying sperm and ovum are conscious?

Maybe everything is consciousness, that would make more sense to me. Otherwise where did life (awareness) come from? We are aware of sperm and egg but sperm and egg in any combination will never be aware of you.

Dont pray to the sky it will never answer you. God is within you.. Do you beleive in yourself. god is everywere in everything in all the cosmos.. If you help yourself you beleive in yourself you can then help otbers to beleive also..

Because God Himself convinced me, in many wonderful ways.

Words used for arguments will not convince an atheist. God has to draw them... Since God is a loving God, He will not turn anybody away that is sincerely looking. This is why I point back to my post- about asking God directly... Or just refer to the following:

Instead of whatever sounds good,... then probably the best way to get a clear head about God, is to simply be honest and ask Him stuff. If you are an atheist, then read the bolded part below (header: If you don't believe in God).... For all others: You are probably speaking regularly to God, right? Then ask God to reply. Daddies love to talk to their kids. Have a regular conversation with Him.

"Jesus Loves You"... "If you don't believe me, ask Him".

Say these things to the Most High God:

- "In case I'm not Your child, then please make me Your child".
- "Show Yourself to me" "I want to know you God..."
- "I want to know You God... not just from my head.. but from my heart".
- "I don't know what's coming down the road, but You do. Please prepare my heart, so that when it
comes, I will be ready".

For example - try one of these straightforward approaches on for size:
- If you don't believe in God, say to God: God- I do Not believe that You exist. But if you do
truly exist, please show Yourself to me...
- If you think that there might be a God, but you're not sure, pray/say: I think that there
might be a God, but I'm not sure. God, if You exist, then please show me that you are there - so that I
know For Sure.
- If you believe in God, but not in Jesus, say: God- I believe that You exist.... Show me
the Way to You. I want to get to know You better. If I'm not Your child, then make me Your child.
- If you believe in God and Jesus, pray/say: Jesus, please get my heart ready... so when
you come back, I am ready for You.

- And you know this, but saying: Oh God help me, Oh God help me - 100x out of desperation is not the same thing.... Specific requests / words will prompt specific responses. Just ask respectfully... like you are the creation, and He is the Creator....
- So if God - is God, then after asking respectfully, you Will get an answer. But if you don't get one, then obviously - God is not God, and you lost nothing by asking.
- Just make sure that you ask God- the Most High. (This works for Muslims as well). No cheap substitute will do. You do this by simply saying so... "I am talking to the Most High God"... then whatever saying you want to use from above. And ask God sincerely / humbly.. not like you are God, and God is a dog that needs to jump through a hula-hoop... or with a preconceived answer in mind of what God will say. More like I mentioned above: like God is the Creator, and we are the creation. To put it another way, ask the way that you would want to hear it: If you are God, and someone was asking if you exist...

you got your ass handed to you and lost.

poor loser had turtled when it came to microbes...

thanks for coming out!

You are atheist.

Your belief is to not believe.

Debate is pointless.

You can ‘see’, you can understand, you are aware, how much more proof do you need? To say that consciousness is an emergent property of the brain is the mere labelling of an unknown.

Here's some thoughts to consider, for both atheists and those who believe in a God.

Let's please take the holy books out of the equation. You know, the ones that men wrote, and edited over time.

Let's think critically for a moment.

What's to say that God is not anything like any of the scriptures describe, but something that merely creates for the sake of creation, and then moves on to its next grand design without any further consideration?

What if God never did watch over us, speak to us, answer our prayers, punish, or anything else? In all probability, God simply created and moved on to its next grand project, far from our sight and comprehension.

Does that make God responsible for the way WE have made this planet?

For example, if a mother gives birth to 10 children who then turn/evolve into adults and experience their own decisions, mistakes and tragedies (as we all do), is the mother entirely responsible for those decisions, mistakes and tragedies? The mother simply gave her kids the gift of life and trusted that things would work out. Looking at how far we've come, I think we're not doing too bad of a job.

The earth, with all of its exotic creatures, plants and diseases, is purposeful; all of those things have a purpose. The bee pollenates the flower. The rain waters the crops so they can grow and provide food. The diseases and natural disasters keep the population down so we don't have 50 billion people fighting over 50 bottles of water.

True, there's no proof of God's existence, but absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

A true scientist doesn't rule anything out entirely ["A conclusion is the place where you grew tired of thinking"]. Perhaps religion and science will be reconciled eloquently one day?

Until we're literally all-knowing, the human race has to take a long hard look in the mirror and take responsibility for its own actions.

Last Edited by Zethron Zabrador on 10/11/2021 12:51 AM

None of the original religions say that God created the world, they say the foundation of everything is eternal. God has more to do with our state of consciousness. The more material our consciousness becomes the more we suffer. Eventually we cry out in pain and ask for forgiveness (healing of our consciousness). We can’t do it on our own we need God’s help.

lol, nearly everything you say is demonstrably wrong. I was just too tired to keep correcting you. You're like a pigeon that craps on the chessboard, and then struts around and declares victory. Here's the things you got wrong in your last post:

"biology and how dna works"

You don't know shit about DNA.

"how do you tell a male microbe from a female microbe? the answer is you cannot."

False. Most microbes don't have a sex. But the ones that do can be identified. Some species have up to 7 sexes.

"so if we came from microbes as your religion suggests"

Scientific theories aren't religions.

"game consoles and machines are the only thing that technically evolve. meaning they get better as time goes on, not breakdown and go extinct like devolution."

No retard. Biological evolution (the topic of our discussion) only occurs in living, reproducing populations. For the 5th time, devolution does not occur in biology. And you already admitted that beneficial mutations hapen, so now you're just contradicting yourself.

"so if they ALWAYS produced milk, then they were assembled in perfect working order in the beginning,"

No, they always produced milk because we define monotremes as a group that produces milk. Their non-milk producing ancestors were not monotremes.

"first you have to find a monotreme with nipples, and compare a monotreme with no nipples, then you have a transitional fossil. otherwise you have assumptions that dont add up"

WTF? this is gibberish. Monotremes don't have nipples, and that has nothing to do with fossils.

"mutations and dna damage are not brought on by just environment. diet and inbreeding play a major role."

Mutations are copying errors that can occur independent of the environment. Inbreeding doesn't cause mutations, it just increases the chances of a mutation becoming heterozygous.

"Ultimately proving that evolution doesn't happen as fast as the evolutionist likes to think, therefore the evolutionist has to believe"

Evolutionists are the ones digging up the crocodiles, jackass. They know how slowly they change.

"I know, you believe we came from microbes, but cant answer how they wound up being animals and people"

Evolution theory is the answer to that question.

"you didnt find any fossils, yet. all the animals you mentioned are degenerates of what they once were. horses and chickens have been bred purposely to what they are today. cat's too. monkeys are degenerates of an ancient humanoid. of which we all came from. lost tribes with limited gene pools perhaps, just like the cheetah. thus they rapidly change, then they will go extinct, as do all species that rapidly change."

Monkeys are degenerate humans? Even though their immune systems are stronger, their muscles are stronger, they have better short term memory, they don't get impacted wisdom teeth... and we've never found any human fossils that predate the first primates, and all the genetic evidence says you're wrong.

You're just making shit up now. You don't care about evidence at all. You think it's just a coincidence that we don't find a single modern mammal under the k2 boundary?

hardly,
"God does not play dice with the universe." Einstein
suggesting that nothing is random, even biology.
I could name more... but you have google

Einstein accepted evolution theory. He also said that he didn't believe in a personal god, and that the bible stories are childish. Again, most physicists are on my side. Evolution theory is accepted by the vast majority of scientists. You don't have to be an atheist to accept evolution, you just need to look at the evidence.

"hat like you said, doesnt come naturally."

I never said that.

"no, you don't get it. Evolutionists believe that through evolution there is self assembly all the way from the beginning of time to when there were nothing but microbes."

microbes didn't exist at the 'beginning of time.' Evolution is not 'self assembly.;

"this is impossible on so many levels, yet the gullible buy it and think thats how the universe works. it isn't."

You have no evidence that it's impossible, and all the evidence implies you are wrong.

"if anything, the apes are more devolved than us, (when compared to our original undevolved being). we know why they rapidly devolved too, and why we didn't. yet fools like you have it backwards and think we came from them. thus your whole paradigm of thought is upside down, and therefore nothing makes sense to you."

No moron. EVERYTHING makes sense in light of evolution theory. Every single fossil fits perfectly into an evolutionary timeline. We can even predict where new fossils will be discovered, using evolution theory. Every genetic test on every species perfectly matches the proposed tree of life. We can compare the number of endogenous retroviruses to see how closely related species are.

Humans are most related to chimps, then gorillas, then orangutans, then monkeys, then lemurs, then non-primate mammals, then reptiles, then fish. Exactly as we'd expect.

There really isn't much of a debate when you are debating atheism and theism, and the existence of God doesn't even need to be part of the debate.

Look at human history and how civilizations developed. Every great ancient society was theist in nature. Didn't matter if they worshiped a Sun God or a Monkey God or several gods. Theism united people under a sytem of common beliefs and morals long enough for them to learn skills and pass them down to others and spread their knowledge across the earth. Astronomy architecture, mathematics, a system of writing, the sciences were all developed in theist societies.

The height of ancient atheist societies were spear chucking hunter and gatherer tribes. Some of them still exist to this day, still living their shitty existence living in grass and mud huts chucking spears at animals and foraging for food.

Ultimately, in this debate it doesn't even matter if God exists. Theism is clearly the superior model for civilizations. We have thousands and thousands of years of evidence and it isn't even close. Theist societies accomplished amazing things. Atheist societies didn't accomplish shit. It is a blowout win for THEISTS.

Your move, OP.

FIFY

I'm not sure why you assume that hunter gatherers are atheists. They're heavily superstitious.

Sweden is a majority atheist country. Higher life expectancy than america. lower crime. Less mental illness.

As the western world has become more secular, we stop burning witches and stoning women for showing their ankles. people are freer and happier.

But, at least you're admitting that you don't care what is true. Some of us do. Some of us prefer harsh truths over comforting lies.

Huh? You're a theistic evolutionist?

Proposing that matter is the foundation of everything and teaching it to children in schools is very much a religion.

Evolution is heritable change in a population over generations. Evolution theory explains how populations diverge from common ancestors.

It says nothing about matter being the foundation of everything. It says nothing about the soul, or God. Many theists accept evolution.

Not a religion.

That’s fine when things are going well. Let’s see how true that is when things turn ugly.

So you're just going to assume that the future will validate you. Anyone can do that. The evidence we have in the present is what matters.

Telling children that santa exists may make them behave better. But the OP was obviously attempting to debate the existence of God. Not whether it is beneficial.

Many buddhists are atheists, and they have a foundation for morality with the belief in Karma.

The poster stated that scientific theories aren't religions which is generally true and that goes for evolution theory too. Thank goodness for that.

However, teaching a theory about a big bang and that humans developed from apes in schools is very much teaching a religion.

And what about consciousness in all of this? Scientists claim it is an emergent property of the brain, in other words magic or we have no idea so once again I would label that as a religion, a belief system. Even though you may say scientists keep an open mind and have not reached any conclusions nevertheless the whole world is currently structured around these belief systems.

That poster was me.

The big bang is not part of evolution theory. The big bang was proposed by a priest, in an attempt to explain the process God used to create the universe. It's not a religion.

Humans are primates by definition. The belief that we share a common ancestor with apes is not a religion unto itself. It's just what the evidence suggests. As someone who believes that humans most likely do share a common ancestor with the other apes, I am still open to the idea that a god may exist, or that aliens tampered with humans... but I haven't seen evidence for it.

Can you give me your definition of religion?

For me the way people live their lives indicates their underlying unconscious belief system, religion. When we believe that we are merely primates then we tend to see the world as purely a material thing and there is then the potential to view others as ‘things’ that can be manipulated and exploited. Many religious people despite all the talk of God and soul share this consciousness too with even worse consequences with their righteous outlook.

Fair enough. I was just trying to point out that it’s easy to be happy when things are going well. Most people start questioning/searching for something ‘more’ when things are not going so well.

We're not 'merely primates.' We are primates, by definition. Whether you like it or not. Linnaeus, the man that created our system of taxonomy was a theist. Humans are mammals, because we have hair and mammary glands. We are primates because we have the features that define a primate.

Understanding what primate means doesn't somehow lower the value of humans. Christians that understand biology know we are primates. These Christians don't have two religions, they have one religion, but also happen to know what words mean.

You still haven't provided a definition of religion, probably because you can't provide one that applies to evolution theory, without also including gravity, or germ theory.

You may say I am a Christian but what about the one who is saying I am a Christian, is that a Christian? I would suggest the thing saying I am a Christian is the same thing (made of same stuff) that says I am a Muslim. I would suggest that that thing is not a primate.

I would say religion is a way of living.

It's not a matter of opinion. Primates are a group of mammals with 5 fingered grasping hands, short muzzles, forward facing eyes with stereoscopic vision, and more.

Muslims consider it blasphemy to say God had a son.

Religion is a way of living? That means being a mechanic is a religion. Being a vegetarian is a religion. Your definition is useless.

The mechanic and the vegetarian may consider themselves to be primates so their religion would be
materialism and their actions would subtly reflect that.

You're not even making sense anymore. Materialism is not a way of living. Playing videogames is a way of living. Listening to hip-hop is a way of living. Smoking is way of living.

Your position is not even internally consistent. It is self defeating, contradictory, and irrational.

We are primates by definition. I won't repeat myself again. I don't have much interest in what you have to say when you refuse to even attach meaning to your words. You may as well be saying blah, blah blah.

why debate you?Ypou will go to hell very soon.If you cannot see what is happening in the world and see that the Bible spoke of it first then just keep doing what you are doing and enjoy hell

If 'heaven' is full of the likes of you, I'm not sure I want to spend eternity there. I think non-existence is preferable.