There is no historical evidence that the ancient Celts ever celebrated a feast of Samhain

Asir Root Language "bryggo", "bryddjo".

Modern Swedish "brygga" (but the meaning has slightly changed
during Christian era, now meaning a pier, while "bro" is the
word for bridge. Compare to German, for instance).

OP is trapped in his own argumentum ex silentio.

I think I'll dress up as a history professor when I swing by the Wiccan merry meet on Halloween to check in our local neo-pagan gaggle.

I'll scare them to death.

Hope you don't run into this guy there:


[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]

Yup.

Na-siir = [one who] knowledge-sees.

Since the times of Oden the Allfather himself hahaha ;)
way before Allt-land-is and the younger languages.

Oh?

[link to bibleinterp.arizona.edu (secure)]

Oh.
I see.

Thank you for educating me.

I didn't.

You educated yourself.

923 you still have not addressed why All Hallows was officially changed from May 13 to its current date only after Palladius was sent to evangelise the Gaels.

Do you really believe that can be ascribed to mere happenstance?

We do know definitely without doubt that the original date was rooted in the Ancient Roman feast of the dead known as Lemuria. Why would the Church break the practice of conflating indigenous Indo-European pagan traditions into their own when this method of liturgical observance had been so effective for centuries?

That's an opinion piece.

You're falling back on the lack of your own argument.

See how easy it is?

It's a conceivable historical conjecture.

There's just no evidence for it.

It's just as conceivable that it was changed from May 13th to the winter because in May all of the men were out working in their fields

Last Edited by 923 on 10/29/2021 03:19 PM

Was not aware of the archaeology in question being performed.

My "Yup" above had more to do with the linguistic side of
things. Am no scholar, I just find it fascinating, that there
seems to be some nuggets of logic and structure and maybe
truth, even, to local hidden mythology.

This town got its staple rights from the Swedish Crown
around the year J750 (seen the actual document once)...local
tongue(s) rather isolated through earlier millennia.

Here's another issue.

Let's just have our starting date of All Saints Day as November 1, AD 835 in Julian reckoning when Pope Gregory IV officially instituted it.

That would correspond to November 5th in our Gregorian reckoning.

Now, that actually does begin to make sense if the Celts held a 3 day festival. They could very well have begun on November 5th and gone through the 7th, which is the true solar crossquarter day.

In solar fire fest terms, the Celts wouldn't have cared anything about October 31st, but they would have cared about November 7th especially.

I think the Celts may have begun this 3 day feast on our Gregorian November 5th at the evening when they began their days. That would begin to actually make sense in relation to the monuments.

November 1 is the old Julian date, not the Gregorian date.

November 5th, I believe, may be our true Samhain Eve.

I think we may have a solution to this solar fire fest conundrum.

Last Edited by 923 on 10/29/2021 07:23 PM

I think that may be it.

The date of Julian November 1st for All Saints was moved to correspond with the Gregorian Calendar, but that's not what the Celts had cared about.

It wasn't the date of November 1st they cared about, but the start of the autumn crossquarter fire fest. The Julian calendar was already off by 4 entire days in 835. The Celts didn't care anything about October 31st, they cared about the start of November 5th, which was their 1st of Samhain in the evening. That 3 day fire feast culminated on Crossquarter Day November 7th.



Last Edited by 923 on 10/29/2021 07:34 PM

Old ancient Celtknew nothing of dung bibble as it is a construct of one Caxton.

Egyptian carved instone with no mention of oyve scrambling about the desert of time.

Charlton Heston parted the Red Sea as per oyverz wringing hands as they counted American/world looshe tax payer moneiz to prop up cancer in sandy now of no use Palestine.

Fuck the looshehooknoze.

For their three day fire festival, they would have begun on the evening of the 5th, had a big celebration of the 6th (the last day of "summer" before solar crossquarter day), and had closing ceremonies on November 7th, the first day of Celtic winter when the sun passed crossquarter mark.

Just you tell me this now dilbert as if Newgrange is some 4000 year old and Jebuz is some 2000 thousand year old as Newgrange has but 9 seconds to calculate.

Not to be a dick on your parade, but do tell though.

We need to test it.

We need to go out to Newgrange and see if the sun strikes center from October 31 to November 1, or rather if it strikes center from November 5th to November 7th.

November 1st wasn't what the Celts were aiming for, because in 835, the Julian calendar was already off by 4 days and should have been November 5th.

The Celts cared about preserving the true solar crossquarter fire feast.

I'd bet you a bill right now Newgrange will show November 5-7 to be the true solar center point.

No assumptions can be made here. It requires archaeological testing.

Last Edited by 923 on 10/29/2021 08:08 PM

Just imagine if this whole crossquarter firefest conundrum was an error that carried over from the Julian calendar that no historian bothered to correct.

That does begin to make sense and it is the only thing that makes sense.

Conclusion?

Samhain is observed on the wrong date today.




Last Edited by 923 on 10/29/2021 08:21 PM

No offence intended OP but it is my thought as per some old Irish guru whose name I forget. As per him we in the west of celt origin went forth to east and educated. Education then came back and we believed east educated west. I do not know really but I do wonder as how old Celt built round towers in my parish with no scaffold.

Plus you have to remember of how old Celt after dark ages re educated europe.

Think me wrong if you wish but look to street names in France, Germany and suchlike as old Pelagius wend his way to die in old Palestine. Pelagius of course denied original sin and was the vane of Benedictine and their kingdoms.

Columb the dove was vane also of Eastertide of Rome as council of Trent as we Celt should now be Eastern Orthtdoxy.

Good post OP but lubricant O'the mind is a strange thing of oldenmen.

[link to www.history.com (secure)]

“ Halloween’s origins date back to the ancient Celtic festival of Samhain (pronounced sow-in). The Celts, who lived 2,000 years ago, mostly in the area that is now Ireland, the United Kingdom and northern France, celebrated their new year on November 1.”

“ To commemorate the event, Druids built huge sacred bonfires, where the people gathered to burn crops and animals as sacrifices to the Celtic deities. During the celebration, the Celts wore costumes, typically consisting of animal heads and skins, and attempted to tell each other’s fortunes.”



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There was no Julian calender as old celt did his thing. I would I think imagine as we dare to have insight for what those old celt knew. Much like the Maya one supposes.

True tho as you may not believe but there is a window tho old celt knew of which we in our world have lost understanding.

Off to me cot now OP but will say. Thank you for this post and thank all who partipated.

Beannacht leat A chairde agus Dia libh.

You people are dumb as fucking dirt.

Of course the celts celebrated all the solstices and major cosmological dates.

If there is no record it's because the shitty christians erased history they didn't like just like their Arab brothers.

The Piper at the Gates of Dawn can't play the tune anymore until you fix your broken date.

This is your input to a thoughtful thread.

Oh dear, oh dear.

Worthy thought perhaps of one Darby O'Gill and his little people.

Come away oh human child, to the waters and the wild.

Come away oh human child for our world is...

Hey there now 923 for what it may be worth as I have encounter old black shuck or as we call him here The Pooka. I have also encountered the old bitch the Beanshide on three occasions as that old crone followed m wife's people.

Make of it as you will but the Beanshide is way quiet as you have Pooka stare you down.

Anight on you for real, Beannacht leat.

Was never about definitively fixed calendar dates.

You're slowly starting to put that all together now, I'm assuming.

You miss the point.

In the Julian calendar, November 1st in 835 would have indeed been November 5th in accurate reckoning of days. That would mark the beginning of the 3 days of the fire festival ending on November 7 (November 3rd in Julian reckoning), which is the true solar crossquarter day.

The Gaels weren't wrong. The Julian calendar was wrong.

After the change to the Gregorian Calendar, the date of November 1 stuck for All Saints Day and I suppose everyone just assumed that had been the Celtic Samhain.

It just shows you what you get by assuming.

October 31, or November 1st meant nothing to the Gaels. It just so happened that these errant dates in the Julian calendar corresponded to the correct dates in the Celtic calendar.

Last Edited by 923 on 10/29/2021 09:08 PM

Actually, when you build stone monuments to mark crossquarters and solstices, it is all about definitively fixed dates.

It was one way to make definitively certain that the luni-solar calendar always stayed accurate.

Samhain needed to be marked by definitive solar crossquarter.

I know that today everyone has "their truth", but in ancient times the Celts didn't have time for such nonsense. They needed the solar truth truth.

Last Edited by 923 on 10/29/2021 09:13 PM