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Any electricians in the house?

 
Tynyyn
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User ID: 79660464
United States
11/07/2021 03:26 PM

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Any electricians in the house?
Quick question:

I'm installing a mini-split system in my house with three heads. I know the outside unit takes 220v to operate and then from the outside unit a tthn wire is run to the indoor head unit. With the 30amp circuit breaker off, the outdoor dedicated shut off to the outside unit pulled, I still am getting current to the head unit. That is strange since there are no other wires running in the wall behind the head unit. (I wonder if there is a battery in the head unit).

Now here is my question. The outside unit and the inside unit do not operate when I have the fuse "on" and the outside shut off switch installed. I have a fuse panel installed that runs the outside unit but one side(pole) has not been installed. Hence, when testing the load from my service pole to my breaker box I am getting 168v to half of my panel and zero to the other half. With 168v coming into the panel and then going out to the compressor unit, is that enough to make the system run or is it too low with the voltage to make the system work?

It seems there is enough voltage to get to the head unit but not enough to make the system run.

I am going to contact my electrician and the mini-split company to figure this out, but in the mean time I just wanted a confirmation of my problem......not enough juice to make the components operate.

Thanks.
TheGasMan II
GLP's Hank Hill

User ID: 80419398
Canada
11/07/2021 03:35 PM

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Re: Any electricians in the house?
Hook up the second pole and try again.
"Every new child born brings the message that God is not yet discouraged of man." - Tagore
-----------------------------
If you must resort to violence, then you've already lost.



John Conner - Rising Sun
-----------------------------
Someday, after mastering the winds, the waves, the tides and gravity, we shall harness for God the energies of love, and then, for a second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.

Pierre Teilhard de Chardin
-----------------------------
Psst....I love charcoal.
.
.
.
FYI, I'm not Canadian.

I am a born, raised and current die hard Texan!

tgmtxcon
Butch DeFeo
The Great Bafflement commences...

User ID: 44546351
United States
11/07/2021 03:39 PM

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Re: Any electricians in the house?
Quick question:

I'm installing a mini-split system in my house with three heads. I know the outside unit takes 220v to operate and then from the outside unit a tthn wire is run to the indoor head unit. With the 30amp circuit breaker off, the outdoor dedicated shut off to the outside unit pulled, I still am getting current to the head unit. That is strange since there are no other wires running in the wall behind the head unit. (I wonder if there is a battery in the head unit).

Now here is my question. The outside unit and the inside unit do not operate when I have the fuse "on" and the outside shut off switch installed. I have a fuse panel installed that runs the outside unit but one side(pole) has not been installed. Hence, when testing the load from my service pole to my breaker box I am getting 168v to half of my panel and zero to the other half. With 168v coming into the panel and then going out to the compressor unit, is that enough to make the system run or is it too low with the voltage to make the system work?

It seems there is enough voltage to get to the head unit but not enough to make the system run.

I am going to contact my electrician and the mini-split company to figure this out, but in the mean time I just wanted a confirmation of my problem......not enough juice to make the components operate.

Thanks.
 Quoting: Tynyyn


Turn off the fuse and look at EVERY wire connection and check for loose connections. That's a big voltage drop - probably a wire sitting in a terminal where the screw has not even been tightened.
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Sandman1!

User ID: 80039739
United States
11/07/2021 03:49 PM
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Re: Any electricians in the house?
Quick question:

I'm installing a mini-split system in my house with three heads. I know the outside unit takes 220v to operate and then from the outside unit a tthn wire is run to the indoor head unit. With the 30amp circuit breaker off, the outdoor dedicated shut off to the outside unit pulled, I still am getting current to the head unit. That is strange since there are no other wires running in the wall behind the head unit. (I wonder if there is a battery in the head unit).

Now here is my question. The outside unit and the inside unit do not operate when I have the fuse "on" and the outside shut off switch installed. I have a fuse panel installed that runs the outside unit but one side(pole) has not been installed. Hence, when testing the load from my service pole to my breaker box I am getting 168v to half of my panel and zero to the other half. With 168v coming into the panel and then going out to the compressor unit, is that enough to make the system run or is it too low with the voltage to make the system work?

It seems there is enough voltage to get to the head unit but not enough to make the system run.

I am going to contact my electrician and the mini-split company to figure this out, but in the mean time I just wanted a confirmation of my problem......not enough juice to make the components operate.

Thanks.
 Quoting: Tynyyn



If you have 168v to ground on one phase and ) on the other you have a problem!
Can you ck above the the feed to the main breaker you have a loose connection or a bad utility transformer.


I
Sandman1!
We Who Watch.

User ID: 79047905
United States
11/07/2021 04:02 PM

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Re: Any electricians in the house?
To the outdoor unit you should have red wire and black wire each at 110 volts from your 220 breaker to the outside unit. There also should be a ground wire from the breaker box to the outside unit.

Going to the inside unit from the outside unit you should have black and red each at 110 volts, ground at no voltage, and another wire (perhaps white) which is a communication wire used by the two units to "talk" to each other.

There is no neutral wire on 220 volts.

220 volts can stop your heart so I also recommend a professional electrician if you are not very familiar with safely working with electricity. Wiring up the unit will probably cost 100 to 400 depending where you are. Being dead, well, I cannot really put a cost to that, maybe a mortician is around....

joking
I exist.
sparky10
panthers

User ID: 79301643
Canada
11/07/2021 04:11 PM

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Re: Any electricians in the house?
120/240 service requires 3 wires, (2 hots, 1 neutral)

neutral is the grounded conductor
the two hots are ungrounded

to get 220/240 you use the two hots
to get 110/120 you use 1 hot one neutral


if your compressor requires 220
you need two hots
168 volts is hardly enough
each hot is v120,
but when combined you get 240

may be a xformer issue


as for 220 stopping your heart... 277v is the dangerous one that will hold you to the wire and cook you..

typically volts dont hurt the heart, its the current that will..

250 ma will wreck your heart so it can never start again..

more scared of the 250milliamps than the 240 volts

277v is the dangerous one, feel safer workin on live 347v

Last Edited by panthers on 11/07/2021 04:21 PM
...1 0 1 0 [1 1] 2 3 5 8...
Tynyyn  (OP)

User ID: 79660464
United States
11/07/2021 05:00 PM

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Re: Any electricians in the house?
To be clear.....

From the breaker box on the service telephone pole, at the edge of my property, which then travels underground to my breaker box in my house where there is only one large line attached to the left side of the house breaker box. The other large line is not connected. It is too short at the breaker box on the telephone pole and my electrician has yet to hook it up. So, I am only getting power on one leg.

This one leg has 168v.

Will this less than optimal voltage keep the compressor on my outside unit from kicking on? Probably.
Reebl

User ID: 80190065
11/07/2021 05:13 PM

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Re: Any electricians in the house?
120/240 service requires 3 wires, (2 hots, 1 neutral)

neutral is the grounded conductor
the two hots are ungrounded

to get 220/240 you use the two hots
to get 110/120 you use 1 hot one neutral


if your compressor requires 220
you need two hots
168 volts is hardly enough
each hot is v120,
but when combined you get 240

may be a xformer issue


as for 220 stopping your heart... 277v is the dangerous one that will hold you to the wire and cook you..

typically volts dont hurt the heart, its the current that will..

250 ma will wreck your heart so it can never start again..

more scared of the 250milliamps than the 240 volts

277v is the dangerous one, feel safer workin on live 347v
 Quoting: panthers


Right about that. I worked in a T.V. repair shop in the 80's and saw a guy hit the anode of a CRT tube @20kv threw him across the room no lie, but no die either.

As to the OP, like others have said, hire a pro.

Last Edited by Reebl on 11/07/2021 05:16 PM
There is no fortune to be gained by a cure, there is however a great deal of profit to be made from treatments. ~Mark Twain

If you want to live forever, live a life worth remembering. ~Bruce Lee

You will find something in everything if you are looking everywhere for a thing. ~Reebl
TheGasMan II
GLP's Hank Hill

User ID: 80419398
Canada
11/07/2021 05:16 PM

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Re: Any electricians in the house?
To be clear.....

From the breaker box on the service telephone pole, at the edge of my property, which then travels underground to my breaker box in my house where there is only one large line attached to the left side of the house breaker box. The other large line is not connected. It is too short at the breaker box on the telephone pole and my electrician has yet to hook it up. So, I am only getting power on one leg.

This one leg has 168v.

Will this less than optimal voltage keep the compressor on my outside unit from kicking on? Probably.
 Quoting: Tynyyn


Ok, I understand better now. Yes, you probably don't have sufficient voltage to trigger the compressor. Sounds like you need that other leg from the power pole hooked up. Doesn't sound safe.
"Every new child born brings the message that God is not yet discouraged of man." - Tagore
-----------------------------
If you must resort to violence, then you've already lost.



John Conner - Rising Sun
-----------------------------
Someday, after mastering the winds, the waves, the tides and gravity, we shall harness for God the energies of love, and then, for a second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.

Pierre Teilhard de Chardin
-----------------------------
Psst....I love charcoal.
.
.
.
FYI, I'm not Canadian.

I am a born, raised and current die hard Texan!

tgmtxcon
Tynyyn  (OP)

User ID: 79660464
United States
11/07/2021 05:19 PM

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Re: Any electricians in the house?
To be clear.....

From the breaker box on the service telephone pole, at the edge of my property, which then travels underground to my breaker box in my house where there is only one large line attached to the left side of the house breaker box. The other large line is not connected. It is too short at the breaker box on the telephone pole and my electrician has yet to hook it up. So, I am only getting power on one leg.

This one leg has 168v.

Will this less than optimal voltage keep the compressor on my outside unit from kicking on? Probably.
 Quoting: Tynyyn


Ok, I understand better now. Yes, you probably don't have sufficient voltage to trigger the compressor. Sounds like you need that other leg from the power pole hooked up. Doesn't sound safe.
 Quoting: TheGasMan II


Thanks for the confirmation. I appreciate all the responses and it certainly puts my mind at ease.
panthers

User ID: 79301643
Canada
11/07/2021 05:25 PM

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Re: Any electricians in the house?
To be clear.....

From the breaker box on the service telephone pole, at the edge of my property, which then travels underground to my breaker box in my house where there is only one large line attached to the left side of the house breaker box. The other large line is not connected. It is too short at the breaker box on the telephone pole and my electrician has yet to hook it up. So, I am only getting power on one leg.

This one leg has 168v.

Will this less than optimal voltage keep the compressor on my outside unit from kicking on? Probably.
 Quoting: Tynyyn


yes..

most devices only operate within 10% variance

168 is way out of the park

might be you lost a leg..(hot) from the transformer,

or a faulty breaker feeding your sub panel..

for 240 breakers there should be double pole breakers..
where both breakers turn on at the same time,
sometimes one of the single poles are malfunctioning..

try resetting it, may need a new breaker

good luck and be safe
...1 0 1 0 [1 1] 2 3 5 8...
TheGasMan II
GLP's Hank Hill

User ID: 80419398
Canada
11/07/2021 05:25 PM

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Re: Any electricians in the house?
To be clear.....

From the breaker box on the service telephone pole, at the edge of my property, which then travels underground to my breaker box in my house where there is only one large line attached to the left side of the house breaker box. The other large line is not connected. It is too short at the breaker box on the telephone pole and my electrician has yet to hook it up. So, I am only getting power on one leg.

This one leg has 168v.

Will this less than optimal voltage keep the compressor on my outside unit from kicking on? Probably.
 Quoting: Tynyyn


Ok, I understand better now. Yes, you probably don't have sufficient voltage to trigger the compressor. Sounds like you need that other leg from the power pole hooked up. Doesn't sound safe.
 Quoting: TheGasMan II


Thanks for the confirmation. I appreciate all the responses and it certainly puts my mind at ease.
 Quoting: Tynyyn


You are probably not getting enough amps either without that second leg. Compressors generally pull most of their amps for startup.
"Every new child born brings the message that God is not yet discouraged of man." - Tagore
-----------------------------
If you must resort to violence, then you've already lost.



John Conner - Rising Sun
-----------------------------
Someday, after mastering the winds, the waves, the tides and gravity, we shall harness for God the energies of love, and then, for a second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.

Pierre Teilhard de Chardin
-----------------------------
Psst....I love charcoal.
.
.
.
FYI, I'm not Canadian.

I am a born, raised and current die hard Texan!

tgmtxcon
Supreme ChugALugging

User ID: 80314116
Canada
11/07/2021 05:47 PM

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Re: Any electricians in the house?
To be clear.....

From the breaker box on the service telephone pole, at the edge of my property, which then travels underground to my breaker box in my house where there is only one large line attached to the left side of the house breaker box. The other large line is not connected. It is too short at the breaker box on the telephone pole and my electrician has yet to hook it up. So, I am only getting power on one leg.

This one leg has 168v.

Will this less than optimal voltage keep the compressor on my outside unit from kicking on? Probably.
 Quoting: Tynyyn


Ok, I understand better now. Yes, you probably don't have sufficient voltage to trigger the compressor. Sounds like you need that other leg from the power pole hooked up. Doesn't sound safe.
 Quoting: TheGasMan II


Thanks for the confirmation. I appreciate all the responses and it certainly puts my mind at ease.
 Quoting: Tynyyn


You are probably not getting enough amps either without that second leg. Compressors generally pull most of their amps for startup.
 Quoting: TheGasMan II


Yes they do...10 gauge wire to my mini split 36000 btu MR Cool....But my 100 amp service runs it just fine....off a 40 amp breaker...

My little electric box if topped off,with square QO ..With Tandems 20 amps all stuffed in it ...

My father has a instant on water heater he hooked up with 2 40 amps going to the stand alone heater...on a 100 amp ...Works fine...

But now since they got solar they upped him to 200 amp service ...so hes good..

But with my 100 amp service i have never had a problem running all my electric,My WELL,HEat Pump,Electric water heater ,My Sauna ,And all the other electric stuff i have running all the time...ITs been fine!

I had my cousin come over an electrician and he looked at my panel and said you need a 200 amp service....this was 15 years ago...Its been fine so far no problems ...All wires in the house is all 12 Gauge since the house was built in the earlier ...they used all 12 gauge everywhere...

Thats as much as i know,you should not have problems at all!
Romans 14:11 It is written:
“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will acknowledge God.

Revelation 20:15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
TheGasMan II
GLP's Hank Hill

User ID: 80419398
Canada
11/07/2021 06:10 PM

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Re: Any electricians in the house?
...


Ok, I understand better now. Yes, you probably don't have sufficient voltage to trigger the compressor. Sounds like you need that other leg from the power pole hooked up. Doesn't sound safe.
 Quoting: TheGasMan II


Thanks for the confirmation. I appreciate all the responses and it certainly puts my mind at ease.
 Quoting: Tynyyn


You are probably not getting enough amps either without that second leg. Compressors generally pull most of their amps for startup.
 Quoting: TheGasMan II


Yes they do...10 gauge wire to my mini split 36000 btu MR Cool....But my 100 amp service runs it just fine....off a 40 amp breaker...

My little electric box if topped off,with square QO ..With Tandems 20 amps all stuffed in it ...

My father has a instant on water heater he hooked up with 2 40 amps going to the stand alone heater...on a 100 amp ...Works fine...

But now since they got solar they upped him to 200 amp service ...so hes good..

But with my 100 amp service i have never had a problem running all my electric,My WELL,HEat Pump,Electric water heater ,My Sauna ,And all the other electric stuff i have running all the time...ITs been fine!

I had my cousin come over an electrician and he looked at my panel and said you need a 200 amp service....this was 15 years ago...Its been fine so far no problems ...All wires in the house is all 12 Gauge since the house was built in the earlier ...they used all 12 gauge everywhere...

Thats as much as i know,you should not have problems at all!
 Quoting: Supreme ChugALugging


With all the other lights, fridge, water heater, etc. running at the same time was my point. Maybe I did not word my response correctly but if all of those things are running at the same time the new unit tries to power up, you could have an amp shortage.

I don't know the conditions of other items at the time of testing. But sooner or later, most will be running at the same time. Expect possible issues until you get the second leg, which will provide another 100 amps, hooked up.
"Every new child born brings the message that God is not yet discouraged of man." - Tagore
-----------------------------
If you must resort to violence, then you've already lost.



John Conner - Rising Sun
-----------------------------
Someday, after mastering the winds, the waves, the tides and gravity, we shall harness for God the energies of love, and then, for a second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.

Pierre Teilhard de Chardin
-----------------------------
Psst....I love charcoal.
.
.
.
FYI, I'm not Canadian.

I am a born, raised and current die hard Texan!

tgmtxcon
We Who Watch.

User ID: 79047905
United States
11/07/2021 06:12 PM

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Re: Any electricians in the house?
My 30,000 btu minisplit pulls 15 amps with an initial surge of 19.

Without both lines of the 220/240 you have no communication between the inside and outside units as well as at least one circuit being unpowered, so no chance of it running.

Get the second main line into your main box and things should work better.
I exist.
sparky10
allentownchemtard

User ID: 79352992
United States
11/07/2021 06:13 PM
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Re: Any electricians in the house?
To the outdoor unit you should have red wire and black wire each at 110 volts from your 220 breaker to the outside unit. There also should be a ground wire from the breaker box to the outside unit.

Going to the inside unit from the outside unit you should have black and red each at 110 volts, ground at no voltage, and another wire (perhaps white) which is a communication wire used by the two units to "talk" to each other.

There is no neutral wire on 220 volts.

220 volts can stop your heart so I also recommend a professional electrician if you are not very familiar with safely working with electricity. Wiring up the unit will probably cost 100 to 400 depending where you are. Being dead, well, I cannot really put a cost to that, maybe a mortician is around....

joking
 Quoting: We Who Watch.


this2
Tynyyn  (OP)

User ID: 79660464
United States
11/08/2021 05:45 PM

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Re: Any electricians in the house?
I got my electrician over to the house today. What an eye opening experience.

He opened the 200 amp service panel on the telephone pole and I saw that a 10 gauge line wire was electrical taped to the 4 gauge black line wire coming in from the transformer. Wow!! Then the 10 gauge white load wire was screwed into the bus bar. No ground wire from the copper rod driven into the dirt. What a cluster. So, now I have a properly secured 200 amp service into my indoor circuit breaker box.

I took the remote control for my mini split and hit the "on" button and set it to 62* on the cool setting. A few seconds later and my head unit was blowing cold air.

Thanks to everybody who chimed in on how I could solve my problem. Pretty simple when one understands basic electricity theory.

Mucho appreciando.
TheGasMan II
GLP's Hank Hill

User ID: 80419398
Canada
11/08/2021 06:24 PM

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Re: Any electricians in the house?
I got my electrician over to the house today. What an eye opening experience.

He opened the 200 amp service panel on the telephone pole and I saw that a 10 gauge line wire was electrical taped to the 4 gauge black line wire coming in from the transformer. Wow!! Then the 10 gauge white load wire was screwed into the bus bar. No ground wire from the copper rod driven into the dirt. What a cluster. So, now I have a properly secured 200 amp service into my indoor circuit breaker box.

I took the remote control for my mini split and hit the "on" button and set it to 62* on the cool setting. A few seconds later and my head unit was blowing cold air.

Thanks to everybody who chimed in on how I could solve my problem. Pretty simple when one understands basic electricity theory.

Mucho appreciando.
 Quoting: Tynyyn


Good deal. Glad you got it properly sorted out.
"Every new child born brings the message that God is not yet discouraged of man." - Tagore
-----------------------------
If you must resort to violence, then you've already lost.



John Conner - Rising Sun
-----------------------------
Someday, after mastering the winds, the waves, the tides and gravity, we shall harness for God the energies of love, and then, for a second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.

Pierre Teilhard de Chardin
-----------------------------
Psst....I love charcoal.
.
.
.
FYI, I'm not Canadian.

I am a born, raised and current die hard Texan!

tgmtxcon





GLP