Punishment in Hell is Not Eternal, The Mark is "Cleanable"

Another one from RABID

Where do Satan and his angels go?


"Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels

Matthew 25:41

Isn't 'Eternal' a reference to the lack of time, ex. 'Timeless'?

I suppose everyone's interpretations are different.

You cant think what you want OP. Most believe in God's Word and its says the lake of fire is Eternal.

Now who goes there? Its says those who reject Christ.


Dont kill the messenger

There are 3 really bad lies that Xianity teaches:

1) Punishment in hell is eternal
2) "Rapture"
3) A single preacher at the pulpit is sufficient

At the moment, I would like to address #1.

TL;DR

The fire of the lake of fire lasts "for the eon" or, in other words, as long as is necessary. Punishment in the lake of fire exactly matches the debt that the one punished owes. Not more, not less.

So, the lake of fire will last until all debt is paid.

Too Long Version

God is Kind He is not interested in torture, he is not interested in hate. He observes all moral actions and writes a balance sheet. When you have lost the ability to act further (when you die), he tallies and judges (as he says, "in the mouth of two or three witnesses") and he allows the soul to bear the weight of punishment that the soul dished out during its life.

After the debt is paid, I am not sure what happens next. I am open to ideas from the text of the bible.

God Forgives It is apparent to me that God forgives as much as he can.

For instance, if a person steals something from another person, there are at least two witnesses: the person stolen from and the person that stole. For the sake of simplicity, this is not a poor person that is stealing to eat, rather this is a person that has no need, and is stealing for the satisfaction of greed. When is comes to judgement, God will query this thief and ask about the theft, the repayment and the state of the heart.

I believe that God forgives as follows:

1) The thief holds regret in their heart.
2) The thief manifests the regret by attempting resolution. This usually means making it up to the one-stolen-from, or when this is not possible, making it up to one in a similar situation. In the law of god this was typically 4x the value of the theft, but sometimes other amounts. So, the thief returns 4x the value to the one-stolen-from, or when this is not possible, to another in a similar situation, or when this is not possible, 4x tossed out the window on the freeway or similar. At least allowing oneself to carry the pain that one inflicted.
3) If one cannot pay (as in the case of murder), then complete submission or self-enslavement to the direction and actions of the spirit of God. As I see it, He will strengthen one to bear the weight of ones crime: overbalancing the crime with right doing.

For this, God will forgive.

Otherwise, I believe that God demands payment.

God Demands Exact Payment Payment in the next life is just like payment in this life, it is paid in personal pain or effort. Let's say that the theft rendered the one-stolen-from hungry for a day. My opinion is that the thief will pay a day or something like this in the lake of fire.

If one ends another's life early, the balance of the lifetime will be paid by the murderer in the lake of fire.

If one is naive in committing the crime, then the weight of the crime will be moderated and the punishment made equal to the crime. This is the case with the mother in many, many abortions. Mostly the murder will be paid by the corporation owners, the medical staff, the legislators, the city / state / federal employees responsible for the permitting and licenses, etc.

You Can Turn Back From Almost Any Crime The law of Moses clearly demonstrates what things God considers crimes, how He feels they should be made-up-for and how to avoid them in the first place.

Jesus goes further and talks about crimes that one can commit in the privacy of their own mind / heart.

Finally, Jesus teaches about how a person can commit themselves to the leading of the Spirit of God and live perfectly, making up for wrongs they have committed and going further by acting with the power and direction of the spirit of the Creator in all things.

There Are Some Crimes One Cannot Turn Back From An example of a crime that one must pay for is, "Blaspheming the Holy Spirit". Basically this means making-fun-of or asserting-as-inconsequential any human act that is empowered by the Spirit of the Creator. For instance, Jesus brings up the topic of "blaspheming the holy spirit" when he heals a person miraculously, and his enemies assert that he has used the power of demons to do the healing. In contrast, when Joseph (son of Jacob) interprets the king's dream, the king immediately gives honor to the God which Joseph serves. Here's a clue: if someone does something miraculous, honor your Creator.

Even Blaspheming the Spirit of God Does Not Demand Eternal Hell Fire This crime must be paid, but even this crime has human context and is not some sort of eternally damnable sin.

Taking the Mark of the Beast Requires Willful Use
If you are under the age of 13, mentally handicapped, senile, etc, I do not think that receiving the mark and using it will result in punishment. I may be wrong, as it is possible that a 12-year-old would have sufficient moral capacity to choose the mark over God. This is not, however, the common situation.
If you receive the mark and refuse so benefit by it, this will not result in punishment. If you use it to keep a job or buy groceries or even make house payments, this is usage, and as I understand it, this is condemnable. This person will "have his place" in the lake of fire, but not necessarily be there for 1000 years.
If you receive the mark and are not aware of the nature of your crime against God, this is also does not warrant full culpability.
If you receive the mark and remove it, this is honorable. Note: the injection is fully removable, as will be the bio-computer. It's tricky, but removable.


Only The Beast and the False Prophet Are Guaranteed 1000 Years In the Lake of Fire as Regards the Mark
The Beast is the governmental system that creates the mark. This includes politicians, bankers, corporate heads, etc. Basically any people that are involved in making laws, enforcing laws, creating the necessary technology, benefiting from the laws and technology.
The False Prophet is the modern church, so called. This includes pastors, priests and all clergy, religious writers that agree with the same, song writers, teachers of any kind that create the metaphor required for the mark to be instantiated. The doctrines of Rapture or Reformed amillennialism, catholic idea of J3^^s accepting a false messiah that takes power over the world, etc. Any teaching that discounts the rise of a national entity that requires an identifying mark in order to buy or sell. I am pretty sure that this includes teachers of the Christians, J3^^s and Muslims alike.

The followers of these teachings will be badly deceived by their teachers. Many will follow their teachers and earn their own place in punishment with them, however, most (as I see it) will not endure the full 1000 years.



PS
I know this is long and completely devoid of bible references. Just remember that when you hear about "eternal hell fire", look at the passage quoted and double check to see if the hell-fire lasts forever or the punishment in the hell-fire. It's always the former.

Peace to all that will hear.

Yes.. God uses strange language.. Hell is not eternal torture.. It is a total destruction of soul and flesh body.. however there (IS) something.. while you wait (after being dead) Some go to Bossom of Abraham.. and sleep in peace...others go into a conscience torture for an unknown time.. so there is a torture place for murderers.. real evil people after they die.. (2) The mark of the beast-- Yes you are right.. Those who have the mark of the beast will not be cast into the lake of fire.. It just means they will have to endure the great tribulation (Unprotected- so to speak) Many horrors there.. It is like an last phase of Marine corps boot camp.. butt dragging the ground.. but with actual real human bodies to crawl over instead of fake ones

Another one from RABID

Christians twist scripture or ignore them to create the eternal torture theme.

Like this..

What the word actually SAYS

Isaiah 52:10 The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.

And what they actually TEACH..

Isaiah 52:10 The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of a small fraction of the nations; and some of the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.


And What the word actually SAYS

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

And what they actually TEACH..

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall about 10% of mankind be made alive.

And What the word actually SAYS

1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

And what they actually TEACH..

1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of just a few men, and only of those that believe.

And What the word actually SAYS

Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

And what they actually TEACH..

Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away...except in hell where screaming and pain and tears and death will continue quite happily for eternity.

And What the word actually SAYS

Isaiah 25:7 And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations. (8) He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.

And what they actually TEACH..

Isaiah 25:7 And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations. (8) He will swallow up 10% of death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off about 10% of faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off a bit of the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.

And What the word actually SAYS

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

And what they actually TEACH..

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw about 10% of men unto me.

And What the word actually SAYS

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

And what they actually TEACH..

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and for our's only, but not for the sins of the whole world.


And What the word actually SAYS


John 4:42 And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.

And what they actually TEACH..

John 4:42 And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of part of the world.
.




Tookl a fair bit of twisting of scripture to make them say the OPPOSITE of whats there...but most christians should not have a problem with it because its what they EXACTLY teach..

Any further questions?

Honestly, just two drops of hydrogen peroxide in a glass of water each day.

The Mark is not the problem, it was the fact you were too simple or naive that you got tricked into taking it in the first place which will see you in Hell for further training which will make you smart.

We can't have naive or simple people in heaven. It just doesn't work. People who could be tricked into allowing in other things which should not be there...no you can never allow such people into heaven as they are an innate security risk.

The Dark Hackers would love to take down Heaven.

Those who do not give up their existence and cease to be can expect to face experiences which will upgrade them over lifetimes or single existences depending on their mode.

You can cleanse the mark, but can you change the reason why you took the mark in the first place.

If you can be bullied by others into doing anything they want you can't go to Heaven. Not strong enough to keep existing there.

Hell as Punishment makes no sense. Why waste resources you have already invested in?

Indeed, as I mentioned in my post, the fire is everlasting. The punishment (as with all punishments in the bible) is equal to the crime.

"Now somebody says, “Does the sentence really fit the crime?” Well we’re thinking rationally for a minute. Well the lawgiver determines that, doesn’t he? The law giver determines that. the law that is written determines the extent of the crime and what is a fitting punishment for the crime and God has determined that the crime is heinous enough that it should be judged in this way. And that is always the hurdle that people have trouble getting over. How can a temporal sin or sins result in an eternal punishment? It seems excessive.

Let me help you with that. The amount of time that a sinner sins is irrelevant. If the sinner dies at fifteen-years-old; thirty-five or a hundred and ten; the amount of time a sinner sins is irrelevant. Crimes against the infinitely holy and exalted God are infinitely wicked and the punishment fits the crime. Infinite crimes against an infinite God deserve an infinite punishment. And here’s the key. Sinners who go to hell never repent. They never repent. They continue to rebel. Every description of hell indicates to us that it is…listen carefully…it is not a remedial experience. It is not remedial justice. It is retributive justice. They remain God-haters forever so that the punishment never catches up with the sin. Understand that? It’s really important.

In hell they continue to hate God. In hell they continue to curse God. In hell they continue to mock God and blaspheme God and hate Christ. So the punishment never catches up to the sin because the sinning never, ever, ever ceases. You understand that, that’s really important. People don’t go to hell and then never sin forever and just get punished forever. They go to hell and keep on sinning forever, so the punishment can never catch up with the wretchedness. That is why the Bible in Mark 3 describes this as eternal sin…as eternal sin.

Let me tell you something. I believe that sinners are more sinful in hell than they were on earth because their sin on earth is mitigated to some degree, necessarily mitigated. Everybody can’t be as wicked as he would choose to be here because there are consequences. There are restraints. There are expectations. But in hell, there are none. Everybody is as evil as he can be.

In Jude 7 it says that they undergo a punishment of eternal fire. And this judgment, according to verse 15, is on the ungodly for all their ungodly deeds which they’ve done in an ungodly way and all the harsh things the ungodly sinners have spoken against Him. The word ungodly is used repeatedly there and when they get to hell, they’re just as ungodly as they ever were, in fact more so in that environment without constraint and continue to be punished because they continue everlastingly their rebellion."


"Hell is not remedial. It has no remedial effect. They will remain forever rebellious, God-haters, lovers of sin, blasphemers of the Holy Spirit, and rejecters of the Lord Jesus Christ. If there is any satisfaction in hell, if there is any fulfillment of anything in hell, is that they can be as wicked as they want to be without restraint because no influence of God is there.

So the theological issue is an important one. Hell is for those who hate God. They act against His mercy. They act against His grace. They act against His holiness. They act against the sovereignty. They act against His glory. And they will continue to do so forever."

[link to www.gty.org (secure)]

OP,

Who do YOU say that Jesus Christ is?

I'm not saying that these random questions are not important, but they are not directly relevant to this thread. If you have a question about what I have written, I will comment.

Thanks

You cant think what you want OP. Most believe in God's Word and its says the lake of fire is Eternal.

Now who goes there? Its says those who reject Christ.


Dont kill the messenger

Everlasting Hell is so important guys god forgot to mention it in the whole Old Testament not even once.

I guess god is a total dick he initiated genocide in the Old Testament and condemned men women and children to hell.

Ohh let’s use the age of accountability a made up doctrine to pretend and say kids don’t go to hell haha

Do you think that you judge more Justly than God?

No that’s helltards jobs like yourself who get boners about people rotting in hell forever and ever and ever Amen.