A Mostly Wind and Solar-Powered U.S. Economy Is a Dangerous Fantasy

Unless there is FAR LESS POPULATION and we all know that that will never happen dont we.

If they’d of taken the 240 billion they just have to Ukraine they could have built a massive solar manufacturing facility out in the desert to build and either sell at cost or give everyone in the country a solar roof for free.

I have been powering my home with solar for 23 years, and aside from the occasional battery replacement, I provide 80% of all my power needs...I could upgrade and produce 220v for the bigger appliances, but all my 110v needs are met with my power...

So what do you do when it's cloudy for weeks

Solar panels still charge on cloudy days...

This article was an eye-opener, at least for me. I had never given storage a thought in this concept. But think about it, the amount of storage needed for an entire city. It would be impossible.

It takes about 30 6v deep cycle batteries to keep me powered through the night and for extended cloudy weather...

We would already have a completely green energy infrastructure if we had adopted nuclear energy on a large scale.

The very small amount of radioactive waste can be buried miles underground in Nevada.

Also, nuclear energy is the only viable power source to power large scale desalination projects, which requires heavy energy usage.

The southwest U.S. is going to need a large scale desalination effort because they're fast running out of water. They're now in the middle of a mega drought that could last many decades or even centuries.

How many solar panels do you have for your home?
Do they take up much space or do you have them on the roof?

They cover the roof and garage...52 panels

approximately, how many years did it take to recover the
initial cost or the break even point?

how about Maintenance/replacement cost for the batteries?

thanks!

He never broke even but that's not the point... The point is not having to rely on oil and government/utilities.

And the system needs millions of tons of limited life battery banks. With a large carbon foot print to produce.
GM

templar the whole concept of an american economy is fantasy, once currency world wide is the future, if any currency as you will own nothing and be happy about it .

H2 duh

We will have all the wind and solar-power we can handle and then some as our atmosphere approaches the same CO2 levels on Venus, (average temp 864 degrees)

Exactly, and if this is what our governments want us to do then our planet would be destroyed in a matter of afew decades.

It will work fine for a world population of 500,000,000.

My goal is independence, not so concerned about saving money on it...I built it a little at a time, so I really don't know the cost...Probably 20 years was the break even...

I'm saving $100/month, so $1,200.00/year

52 BP panels were around $350 each = $18,200

inverters, batteries, wiring = $3500

not if your plan is to depopulate!

lol

Storage is no problem.



Enviro Close-Up #660 Mark Jacobson and “100% Clean, Renewable Energy and Storage for Everything”
Nov 13, 2021
EnviroVideo
Dr. Mark Z. Jacobson is a renowned energy expert, a major figure in clean, renewable energy. “100% Clean, Renewable Energy and Storage for Everything,” his new book, “is absolutely brilliant. It is a handbook for a global green energy future,” declares host Karl Grossman in this Enviro Closeup. “It is a handbook for a global green energy future.” Jacobson is Director of the Atmosphere/Energy Program and Professor of Civil and Environmental Engineering at Stanford University. The book begins: “Transitioning the world from fossil fuels to 100 percent clean, renewable energy and storage for everything is seen internationally as necessary to address global warming, air pollution and energy insecurity.” The book “lays out the science, technology, economics, policy, and social aspects of transitioning from fossil fuels to 100 percent clean, renewable energy sources for all energy purposes.” Jacobson details the huge potentials of “WWS”—"Wind-Water-Solar”—through onshore and offshore wind, wave and tidal power, solar photovoltaic and concentrated solar power and other green energy sources. He discusses the emergence of many energy storage technologies. A co-founder of The Solutions Project, Jacobson describes how it is leading a move worldwide to 100% clean, renewable energy. He dismisses with facts the claim in regard to climate change that nuclear power is “carbon-free” detailing how “it’s not carbon-free at all,” and “it just costs so much, four to five times per unit of energy compared to wind-water-solar.”

[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]
Dirt Cheap Used Solar Panels: 250W for $63 + Shipping
May 12, 2021
DIY Solar Power with Will Prowse
............
source: USED PANELS:
[link to store.santansolar.com (secure)]
SanTan Solar T Series 250W $63.00
These are used panels in good physical condition. Manufacturing labels have been removed. Panels have been tested and have a good output. These would need to be for off-grid applications.

Nukes no longer needed or wanted.
Renewables WON. Past tense. Years ago.
Stop living in the past.

............................

“THE DEBATE IS OVER. Renewables won”.

[link to www.worldnuclearreport.org (secure)]

The World Nuclear Industry Status Report 2017 (HTML)

Tuesday 12 September 2017

Foreword by S. David Freeman

Nuclear power was born in a sea of euphoria out of a collective American guilt over dropping the atomic bomb. And for at least two decades it was the “clean” alternative to coal that was going to meet all of our energy needs forever.

The Three Mile Island meltdown, in 1979, ended the euphoria but the dream continued and it still goes on without much regard to contrary facts.

The opponents of nuclear power have shown a similar disregard for changing facts. They largely ignored the fact that many well-meaning people viewed local air pollution and climate change more of a danger than nuclear. In those years shutting down a nuclear plant did mean increased emissions of local pollutants and green house gases.

The debate about nuclear power was similar to talking about a religion. It was seldom grounded in all the relevant facts- each side had a religious belief in their point of view boosted by whatever ad hoc facts supported their view.

Because of that history, this 2017 World Nuclear Industry Status Report is perhaps the most decisive document in the history of nuclear power. The report makes clear, in telling detail, that the debate is over. Nuclear power has been eclipsed by the sun and the wind. These renewable, free-fuel sources are no longer a dream or a projection-they are a reality that are replacing nuclear as the preferred choice for new power plants worldwide.

It no longer matters whether your greatest concern is nuclear power or climate change the answer is the same. The modern-day “Edisons” have learned to harness economically the everlasting sources of energy delivered to earth by Mother Nature free of charge.

The value of this report is that this conclusion no longer relies on hope or opinion but is what is actually happening. In country after country the facts are the same. Nuclear power is far from dead but it is in decline and renewable energy is growing by leaps and bounds.

The entire Report is must reading so that the facts of nuclear decline in the U.S., Germany, Japan, and France –indeed just about every country- really sinks in. It is more than symbolic that the Japanese Government has formally accepted the death of its breeder reactor, which was the original holy-grail of nuclear power.

Most revealing is the fact that nowhere in the world, where there is a competitive market for electricity, has even one single nuclear power plant been initiated. Only where the government or the consumer takes the risks of cost overruns and delays is nuclear power even being considered.

The most decisive part of this report is the final section- Nuclear Power vs Renewable Energy Development. It reveals that since 1997, worldwide, renewable energy has produced four times as many new kilowatt-hours of electricity than nuclear power.

Maybe the Revolution has not been televised, but it is well underway. Renewable energy is a lower cost and cleaner, safer alternative to fossil fuels than nuclear power.

The world no longer needs to build nuclear power plants to avoid climate change and certainly not to save money. If you have any doubt about that fact please read the World Nuclear Industry Status Report 2017.

S. David Freeman

1 - S. David Freeman was appointed Chairman of the Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA) by President Jimmy Carter in 1977. Subsequently, he served for two decades as general manager of several large public power agencies including the Los Angeles Department of Water and Power, the New York Power Authority, and the Sacramento Municipal Utility District.

I replaced my battery bank just over two years ago at a cost of around 4,000 usd. The batteries have already failed and the supplier, basically, doesn't gaf.

The previous set lasted about 9 years.

I run a bank of panels and a 4kw turbine and am located in what is considered the sunniest part of Europe with something in excess of 330 sunny days a year.

Summertime, no problem with supply 24/7.
Winter, ok if it's sunny or windy, but heavy cloud and no wind, for a few days or more, you're s.o.l.. Then it's generator time.

As the op says, storage is the Achilles' heel for these systems.

It's quite possible to run a house on an off gried set up, but what about industry? What about when everyone and his sister has an electric car?

At the moment, it's a pipe dream and if the west goes this route, you can quite easily foresee those countries who maintain fossil fuel systems, walking all over us.

Retired power grid operator here.

The US Eastern Interconnection peak load is about 600,000MW, so you would need about 600 pump storage plants the likes of Raccoon Mountain or Bath County, and each would need to have about 20 times larger upper and lower reservoirs. Basically need to make the top of the entire Appalachian Mountains one big reservoir from North Georgia all the way to Maine. Given that these mountains tend to have mainly peaks instead of valleys, vast dikes would need to be constructed atop the mountains to create reservoirs.

Then you would need new transmission lines to wherever these wind turbines would be sited (I would assume North Dakota as they have the most wind). And also new transmission lines need built from the new pump storage facilities to the load centers ie; cities.

I would put the cost of something like that in the neighborhood of a 100 trillion.

I always liked this video from PragerU regarding this topic.

It's simple and crystal clear to share with friends -

Believing a mostly Oil and Petro-Chemical or even a nuclear powered economy, all the dirtiest industries to be bestowed upon humanity and a serious treat to our biosphere can be the only solution, is a very dangerous fantasy.

No human progress in mass transportation since the late 1800's, is our dangerous reality and there are many solutions to cut Oil Cartels off,... for some real GREEN ENERGY!

It is our priority and imperative to make Mother Earth beautiful again



Justice needs to be FULLY served from top to bottom to "clear the air" .

Thanks for the pro's point of view.