Pre-Mid-Post Tribulation Rapture

Sorry but you're nothing but a presumptuous pompas ass.
God's Word is supernaturally discerned and statements like yours exposes your spiritual weakness.

Try sincerely asking the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth to you.

Here's a good starting point.

[link to www.christianevidence.net (secure)]

John of Zebedee didnt write revelation its a later interpolation.

BUNK.

If its not than so long & thanks for all the fish.

You disappeared from your last thread after being proven wrong and mocking. Here I’ll answer your misreading of scripture yet again.


The tribulation biblically is said to be the worst time in human history and the worst time in all of the future of humanity and this goes for the New Jerusalem as well. The Bible states that the tribulation will be like no other time in history nor in the future. God won’t allow his bride to go through the worst time ever since the creation of man nor will at any time in the future be as bad.

In no time in history or future will the literal Gates of Hell be opened and demons allowed to hunt humans. In no time in history or future will the earth experience such hell and in no time in history or future will mankind experience the changes that the earth will soon undergo during the tribulation.

You’re wrong yet again comparing any suffering or “tribulation” of past to what’s ahead during the tribulation. Another reason the bride will be raptured before the tribulation begins. And if I see you continue posting garbage any time, I’ll continue correcting you until you learn.

There will be a pre trib rapture just prior to summer of 2024. There will be a mid trip rapture 10.2027. 3.5 years after that Messiah returns. I do not expect you or anyone to believe this but never let it be said that no one ever told you.

Keep Covenant and praise the TRUE eternal Name of YaHuWaH Father, Son and Set Apart Spirit.

How can it be bunk when it's the same as Daniel Isiah and Ezekiel?

You are denying the resurrection that Christ talked about countless times and was recorded in the NT and OT over 40 times. Every verse used to support tbe rapture doctrine is actually the context of the resurrection. You know what He did not talk about? An easy way out.

Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mar 13:9 But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.

Act 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, [and] exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Last Edited by Achduke7 on 05/28/2022 11:57 PM

NONSENSE.

You can't argure against the scriptures I present so you're stuck making a personal attack on me.

So typical of you Pauline Pre-Trib Poos.
.....

Compare what Paul says to what Jesus says. It's the SAME evevent - the Second Coming.

Thread: After the Tribulation Documentary - NO Pre-Trib Rapture

1. No scripture states that Believers / "the Church" will miss Tribulation.

2. No scripture states that Jesus returns BEFORE "the day of the Lord".

3. No scripture states that Jesus returns MORE than once.

4. No scripture states that Jesus takes "the Church" to heaven for any period of time.

5. No scripture states that Tribulation only happens to the Hebrews.

Jesus clearly states that it will encompase the entire Earth.

.....

The pre-trib rapture is based on this passage by Paul.

1 Thessalonians 4

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

.........

Key phrases.

0. "we which are alive and remain"

Those are Believers - including Elect - that weren't killed prior to Jesus' return. Remain from what? The Tribulation. These are the same that Jesus states 'he who overcomes' etc...

1. "THE coming of the Lord". Jesus returns once. No scripture states otherwise.

2. "trump of God". This is the "last trump" that Paul speaks of in 1 Corinthians 15:52. For further reference, see the Seven Trumpets of Revelation. This is echoed in Matthew 24.

3. "caught up together". This is the First Resurrection mentioned in Revelation.

4. "in the clouds". Jesus used the SAME phrase describing His Return.

5. "alive and remain" also matches the words "endureth to the end" (Matthew 10:22) "endure unto the end" (Mark 13:13) and "overcometh" (Revelation 2:26)

6. Jesus returns "after the Tribulation".

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation

of those days shall the sun be darkened,
and the moon shall not give her light,
and the stars shall fall from heaven,
and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

7. Tribulation is not wrath. Scripture proves this.

Last Edited by Servant-of-the-LORD on 05/28/2022 11:52 PM

I used to be a 'pre-tribber' - until I actually compared what Paul said to what Jesus said.

....

Compare what Paul says to what Jesus says. It's the SAME evevent - the Second Coming.

Thread: After the Tribulation Documentary - NO Pre-Trib Rapture

1. No scripture states that Believers / "the Church" will miss Tribulation.

2. No scripture states that Jesus returns BEFORE "the day of the Lord".

3. No scripture states that Jesus returns MORE than once.

4. No scripture states that Jesus takes "the Church" to heaven for any period of time.

5. No scripture states that Tribulation only happens to the Hebrews.

Jesus clearly states that it will encompase the entire Earth.

.....

The pre-trib rapture is based on this passage by Paul.

1 Thessalonians 4

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

.........

Key phrases.

0. "we which are alive and remain"

Those are Believers - including Elect - that weren't killed prior to Jesus' return. Remain from what? The Tribulation. These are the same that Jesus states 'he who overcomes' etc...

1. "THE coming of the Lord". Jesus returns once. No scripture states otherwise.

2. "trump of God". This is the "last trump" that Paul speaks of in 1 Corinthians 15:52. For further reference, see the Seven Trumpets of Revelation. This is echoed in Matthew 24.

3. "caught up together". This is the First Resurrection mentioned in Revelation.

4. "in the clouds". Jesus used the SAME phrase describing His Return.

5. "alive and remain" also matches the words "endureth to the end" (Matthew 10:22) "endure unto the end" (Mark 13:13) and "overcometh" (Revelation 2:26)

6. Jesus returns "after the Tribulation".

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation

of those days shall the sun be darkened,
and the moon shall not give her light,
and the stars shall fall from heaven,
and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

7. Tribulation is not wrath. Scripture proves this.

Exactly.

...

Elect on Earth during the Great Tribulation.

Matthew 24

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

.....

Compare Matthew 24 to Revelation 6.

Revelation 12:5 seems to indicate a church Rapture before Israel flees to the wilderness.

Revelation 12:1-5

12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

The woman is the church/Israel. I believe they are the same. The only catching away here is Christ caught up to God. Then the devil arrives and the woman is protected by God in the wilderness like Israel was during Exodus.

The Church and Israel are not the same body of Christ.

you are serving your master well... you have been programmed to believe in a hell that cannot exist.

the people who promote a belief in the Rapture, are exposing their selves - I don't know why they feel the need to do that,

The "WAY" is, as Jesus taught, that he said, "satisfies ALL laws" is by Doing unto others as you would have them do unto you - plain and simple

that (above) is how you save your self - and even if the Rapture was true - you can't fool the Heavenly Host like you have fooled your self - if you are not keeping the "golden rule" you will be found unworthy

personally I think that the Rapture is an excuse for not being prepared for what is coming next (a New Age) and by not being prepared - you will become a victim - of your own free will

even if you believe in the rapture, having food, and water, to leave behind for you fellow man, would be evidence of you "doing unto others, as you would have them do unto you"

your belief in the Rapture doesn't guarantee you a free ride, just who do you think you are fooling - the bible says that "the meek will inherit the earth" not the weak

I believe in Jesus Christ.

.

The Rapture is not the Second Coming.

The Rapture and the Second Coming are distinctly different events.




Chuck Missler on Harpazo: Rapture vs Second Coming, Post-Trib Problems, Premillennialism


[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]

Says you.

Why do you say that Jesus Christ died?

Save yourself from what?

Found worthy of what?

Expose yourself.

You are serving your master well.

As always, Satan approves your every word.

in this topic "true christians" each claiming to be right
fighting and disagreeing with each other.

well which is true?

each of them thinks they are saved.

Missler is just flat out wrong.

All he's done is he took the Darby / Howard Estep teachings and ran with them.

A critical look at scripture proves the Pre-Trib is wrong.

Thread: After the Tribulation: Revisited - NO Pre-Trib Rapture - KJV Bible Study Christian Theology

Thus sayeth you.

So what?



Of course, you discuss NOT ONE, NONE of the verses discussed therein.

.

Missler has been discussed before. He names a lot of scripture but does not tell how they support the pretrib rapture.

Last Edited by Achduke7 on 05/30/2022 12:15 AM

If you believe you are saved, you have been deceived. You can only be certain you are going to Heaven when you are there.

Thread: God told me only 1 in 10,000 will be deemed worthy to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

There will be no tribulation/rapture ever. Flawed teaching that has only been around a few hundred years at best. The main reason it will never happen is that it would violate free will mandates and the laws of this universe. Will never happen!!!!

Exactly. I saw the video years ago. Missler and others like Howard Estep keep claiming the Rapture is a 'seperate event' but there's NO scripture that states such.

I'll watch the Missler video again and do a 'critique'.

....

Here's a Howard Estep video that's the same way.

[link to www.youtube.com (secure)]


I had to stop when he said that Daniel 9:24 proves that "the Church" doesn't go through Tribulation - only Persecution.

That verse has nothing to do with tribulation - and ignores what both Jesus and the Apostles say about tribulation.

Here's the 19 verses in the KJV that use the word "tribulation".

[link to www.blueletterbible.org (secure)]

...............
0. Estep acts like Gentiles never sinned. This is just plain wrong.

00. Estep acts like it was only Gentiles that spread the Gospel. Thomas supposedly went to India etc... Mattew went to Africa. The other Apostles travel all around the Mediterranean and beyond.

1. The phrase "church age" isn't in the Bible.

The phrase "time of the Gentiles" doesn't mean "church age" for the simple fact that there will still be Gentiles on Earh when Jesus returns.

Estep tries to use the "weeks / years" times to show that Believers will miss Tribulation.

Yet there's no actual mention of "tribulation".

It's an assumption.

...

2. Armageddon (Gog and MaGog) doesn't happen until AFTER Jesus Millenial 1000 year reign comes to an end. Read Revelation 20:6-10

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part
in the first resurrection: on such the
second death hath no power, but they shall
be priests of God and of Christ, and shall
reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired,
Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations
which are in the four quarters of
the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather
them together to battle: the number of
whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of
the earth, and compassed the camp of
the saints about, and the beloved city:
and fire came down from God out of
heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was
cast into the lake of fire and brimstone,
where the beast and the false prophet are,
and shall be tormented day and night for
ever and ever.

...

3. Estep argues that Revelation 3:10 shows that "the Church" will be protected.
But look at verse 12 - it shows how Jesus will do it.

Revelation 3

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

...

4. Estep argues that because of Revelation 3:10 that "the Church" won't be around to "be deceived".

Yet Jesus states differently.

Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

The "elect" are still around during the Tribulation. Read Matthew 24.

...

1 Thessalonians 4

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Last Edited by Servant-of-the-LORD on 05/30/2022 12:46 AM

Anyone notice how these 2 verses match?
'AAfter the tribulation' -the sixth

seal,

Matthew 24:29 Immediately

after the tribulation of those days

shall the sun be darkened,
and the moon shall not give her light,
and the stars shall fall from

heaven,

and the powers of the heavens shall be

shaken:

Revelation 6

12 And I beheld when he had opened

the sixth seal, and, lo, there was

a great earthquake; and

the sun became black as
sackcloth of hair,
and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the

earth,

even as a fig tree casteth her untimely

figs, when she is shaken of a mighty

wind.

Hey OP, I would suggest talking with your Pastor and people at your Church about that kind of information. Not here! There are many people who want to deceive and manipulate the truth. most websites have trolls, this one has devils.

This thread is the fulfillment of scoffers in the last days.

Yes.
There are many here who lead people AWAY from Jesus.

On GLP, there's a handful of DISCIPLES of Jesus Christ who post. They are humble servants of the Living God and give testimony of Jesus.
They preach His words.

Jesus, the Good Shepherd said,
"My sheep hear My voice - I know them - and they follow Me".
The words of Jesus are Life.

Jesus said, "If you love Me, obey My words."

Jesus said to go out and make disciples - lead them to Truth.
Jesus said, "I am the Way, Truth and Life".

Jesus DID NOT say to follow/obey/trust a Churchman.
Trust a religious man? Might be a smiling (and sincere) wolf.
Jesus said there would be a lot of those. A lot.

Finding a relationship with Jesus is IMPERATIVE.
Walking with Him - Knowing Him - the Narrow Way that leads to everlasting Life.
Putting Him first in your life.

Jesus will say to many, "Depart from Me, I never knew you."

FEW seek/find the narrow Gate. His 'sheep' must pass through this Gate.
The Good Shepherd KNOWS each one. They KNOW Him.

Churchy people DO NOT TELL YOU to seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness.
This is the very first thing Jesus said to do!
Many have never even done this. Many were never born again.

Asking church people for info can REALLY lead a person astray.
Please don't lead people to churchmen or churchy people.
Lead them to Jesus!

So many have stalled in spiritual growth.
They wait/watch for rapture instead of learning to become a servant - a disciple/follower of Jesus.

A follower of Jesus is constantly learning and growing.
They seek Truth and find Truth - He leads them.

People need JESUS. They SURE don't need Churchy-people.

Rude, bad attitudes & fruit, condemning & critical, casting aspersions, rebuking people - calling them devils and telling people that they are going to hell... those are churchy people.

Churchy people need Jesus. Jesus IS Salvation & TRUTH.

On GLP there are actual DISCIPLES who truly follow Jesus Christ and give testimony.
They've had an authentic repentance.
They have a testimony of being TRULY born again.

Jesus said His sheep do not listen to "other voices".
The other voices - are churchmen & their followers.

Religion/churches indoctrinate. They program the sheep.
Many refuse to believe that.

Jesus came to set these captives free.
Many want to stay right where they are.

The words of Jesus - will be your judge.

“He who rejects Me, and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the words I spoke are what will judge him at the last day".

The Father said,
“This is Ny Son, Ny Chosen One; listen to Him!”

Many never even hear the words of Jesus in church.

Churchmen are businessmen. Subs/numbers = $
The Jesuit doctrines taught in fundamentalist & dispensational churches are proven business formulaic "growth doctrines" developed by 501c3 corporate churches.
These church-growth doctrines teach a "once saved/always saved" gospel message w/pretrib rapture.

A mega-church "proven formula" to create a packed-out church of saved-sinners.
For many 'sheep' this is exactly what they want. A group.
A feel-good message with acceptance.

Jesus said that sinners will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

"And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved".

Hated for His Name's sake.
For following & obeying His words. Abiding in Him.
Speaking Truth.
Enduring & persevering because they walk with The King on the Narrow Way.
He never leaves them. He is always with them.
They are His beloved disciples (a small flock).

There are devils inside the churches.
They manipulate, deceive and persuade unthinking people to believe in lies.
Beware of churches.