Will the Rapture, or Harpazo, happen before or after the Great Tribulation? The Ultimate answer given!

It's post-tribulation rapture. The rapture and Christ’s second coming are one and the same event.

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The rapture is a theological position held by some Christians, consisting of an end-time event when all Christian believers who are alive, along with resurrected believers, will rise "in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air.” The origin of the term extends from Apostle Paul’s First Epistle to the Thessalonians, in which he uses the Greek word harpazo, meaning "to snatch away" or "to seize," and explains that believers in Jesus Christ would be snatched away from earth into the air.

Differing viewpoints exist about the exact timing of the rapture and whether Christ's return would occur in one event or two. Pretribulationism distinguishes the rapture from the second coming of Jesus Christ. This view holds that the rapture would precede the seven-year Tribulation, which would culminate in Christ's second coming and be followed by a thousand-year Messianic Kingdom.

Thus according to pre-tribulationists, the rapture is when Christ returns for the Church to take it with him to heaven, while the second coming is when Christ returns to save the post-rapture tribulation saints to be followed immediately by the destruction of the unbelievers. The post-rapture tribulation saints, according to this doctrine, are those who convert to Christianity during the Great Tribulation and after the Church is already raptured.

However, some Christians assert a post-tribulation rapture instead wherein the rapture and Christ’s second coming are one and the same event. This means also that right after Christ’s disciples are raptured to safety in the air, the unbelievers that are left behind on earth are immediately destroyed.

In one of Christ’s parables, counterfeit “Christians” are the weeds that join themselves with the wheat (or genuine Christians) and grow together with them in the same “field” which represents the Church on earth. See Matthew 13:24-30
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The man who sowed the good seed is Christ, and therefore this good seed must be inclusive of his followers who believed him while he was still preaching the good news in the “field” representing the earth. Thus this parable is about the rapture of the Church, symbolized by the gathering of the wheat into his barn. Now notice that before the wheat is gathered, the weeds (or the counterfeit “Christians” that associate themselves with the genuine Christians) are first collected and separated from the wheat, and then “bundled to be burned” later.

My point is this, if shortly before the rapture Christ will bind the counterfeit “Christians” for destruction by fire, why would he even give the unbelievers a chance to repent after the rapture and during the Great Tribulation? Therefore, the doctrine that there will be post-rapture tribulation saints (or unbelievers who become Christians after the pre-tribulation rapture) is unBiblical. For as the apostle Peter said, “if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?”

1 Peter 4: 17-18 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begins at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

Take the Rapture Poll. More pre-trib at this point.

Thread: Rapture - Iron sharpens Iron - Poll

Isn't this the Separation of the Wheat from the Tare...

It happens instantaneously. The lukewarm Christians. The ones that praise God and Jesus while worshiping BAAL...

This would leave the True Believers on Earth until the Rapture...

I’ve studied this for 30 years. Pre Trib is correct.

On the Separation of the Wheat and the Tare...

Where are the Tare taken too???

The lake of fire

Does this separation happen at the last Trumpet or before...

The "rapture" is NOT part of the basic Tenets of The Christian Faith.

MEANING:

You can be a Non-rapture believer and another can be a Pro-rapture believer and if you are both in Christ, you both get to go to Heaven.

In one of Christ’s parables, counterfeit “Christians” are the weeds that join themselves with the wheat (or genuine Christians) and grow together with them in the same “field” which represents the Church on earth. See Matthew 13:24-30
[link to www.biblegateway.com (secure)]

The man who sowed the good seed is Christ, and therefore this good seed must be inclusive of his followers who believed him while he was still preaching the good news in the “field” representing the earth. Thus this parable is about the rapture of the Church, symbolized by the gathering of the wheat into his barn. Now notice that before the wheat is gathered, the weeds (or the counterfeit “Christians” that associate themselves with the genuine Christians) are first collected and separated from the wheat, and then “bundled to be burned” later.

My point is this, if shortly before the rapture Christ will bind the counterfeit “Christians” for destruction by fire, why would he even give the unbelievers a chance to repent after the rapture and during the Great Tribulation? Therefore, the doctrine that there will be post-rapture tribulation saints (or unbelievers who become Christians after the pre-tribulation rapture) is unBiblical. For as the apostle Peter said, “if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?”

1 Peter 4: 17-18 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begins at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

You've got it mixed up.

In Matthew 13 the "field" refers to the world, not the Church, and the disciples knew that because he doesn't make them aware of the Church until he mentions the Church for the first time in Matthew 16 when he says "I will build my church..."

The gathering of the tares first and then the wheat is at the end of the age and is in reverse order of the rapture.

Matthew 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity.

The tares/unbelievers go into the winepress, the winepress is at the end.

The wheat are believers, tribulation saints that go into the kingdom with original natural bodies and populate the millennium.

If the resurrection happened post tribulation, everyone not put into the winepress would have resurrected bodies, leaving nobody left with original natural bodies to populate the millennium.

Post tribulation resurrection/rapture is therefore FALSE.

Your thinking is incorrect! This is what holds you up? Making sure there are natural bodies to populate the millennium?

Where does it say the saints repopulate the millennium? Where are the verses of these people being born in the millenium from saints and believers?


Let's discuss the inhabitants of the millennium. Where does it say ALL unbelievers die before the millennium?

The millennium is the transition period from the old to the new.
Sin and death still exists in the millennium, one reason we know this is because of the rebellion and destruction of the rebels at the end of it.

The believers that come out of tribulation and make it into the millennium will have long lives, plenty of offspring will be had over a 1000 years. Not all offspring will choose to be believing sheep, and they too will of course have offspring.

Isaiah 65:20
There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

Isaiah 65:23
They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.

What makes you think any heathen will avoid the winepress and continue into the millennial kingdom?

I am aware that there is sin in the millennium as Satan holds a rebellion at the end of it.

Where does it say that no unbelievers will be on the earth after God's Wrath and enter into the 1000 years? There are many nations on earth other then Israel.

Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Zechariah 14:16 is referring to believers from those nations.
The verse states that they will worship, that is what believers do.

The people from those nations that actually took part in coming against Jerusalem are destroyed in the previous verse:

Zechariah 14:12
And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

The rest of the heathen are gathered into the winepress and treaded.

No, Zechariah does not say these people are believers. That is your speculation. Zechariah also leaves room for those that do not follow, They get no rain.

Just the same these peoples nations attacked Israel during the tribulation. They were not saints. If they were believers that do follow Christ they would have been caught away in the resurrection that happens before the wrath of God.

Zec 14:17 And it shall be, [that] whoso will not come up of [all] the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

It's not speculation, everything that offends is gathered out of the millennium kingdom, all the heathen are treaded.

Matthew 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity.

The resurrection is NOT at the time you are saying.

The left over people from Zechariah 14:16 are part of the wheat and the tares.

All the heathen are gathered into the winepress and treaded, which leaves only the believers "the wheat" left.

Joel tells us of the judgement of the heathen at the 2nd coming.

The sentence is given:

Joel 3:12
Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round
about.

The Winepress executes the sentence:

Joel 3:13
Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.

Nonbelievers come from future offspring.

How do you think any heathen avoid the winepress and continue into the millennium?

:judethe: In the end you either believe the plain truth as it is written in the Bible, or you go your own way.

1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.