Proving The Existence Of God to an Atheist

Here's a fun game for all the atheists...

[link to friendlyatheist.com]

You may have missed out on the last board game, but not this time! Jawbone Productions, a maker of Biblical board games, wants you to buy their new game Inheritance (which judging by the picture below, looks remarkably like Monopoly…).

What is this game all about?

Inheritance, a board game inspired by God, and based on His promised inheritance to His saints from both the old and New Testament. Players representing disciples from the seven churches of Revelations, trade property, pay tithes and make offerings as charity for the poor. Players who qualify for the ascension play on the inner board. The winner celebrates Christ as the Lamb of God and the light of the world the results that makes everyone a winner. The mystery of King Solomon’s Seven Pillars of Wisdom is imparted during game play. No prior bible knowledge is required.

Sounds like a good drinking game.

To promote the game’s release, Jawbone is having a contest!

You can win $1,000 if you can write up rap lyrics on the subject of righteousness.

No swearing. Deadline is July 14. And apparently, you must have a proof of purchase of the Inheritance game.

Wait! There’s one more contest from the same company! This one’s for $10,000 and it’s specifically for atheists and agnostics!

Essentially, they say that 1 John in the Bible was written so that it could be read in reverse (by verse) and still communicate the same meaning as when it’s read forward. This contest has two phases.

First:

…find a similar letter or essay, on any subject, similar in length and it’s construction of reverse comprehension as found in 1st John.

Second:

Phase two requires the contestants to write an essay, the subject of which is to be the Seven Pillars of Wisdom as revealed by King Solomon and disclosed in the board game Inheritance® This essay should be readable in the reverse sentence by sentence while communicating the same message as when read normally, and similar to 1st John.

It would be pretty damn funny if an atheist won either of these contests… but it would require buying the board game… but Christian rap is so funny… but… argh! The tension of opposites confounds me yet again.

I would suggest your concept is flawed, NOT because of the concept of a God, but because of mans concept of religion, in particular mans concept of the Abrahamic religion which your faith follows.

It is fair to say that the the three prevalent monotheistic religions; Christianity, Islam, and Judaism, can all make the same claims in one way or another, however the test of a religion is how it treats others of a different faith, here all three fall down completely, all three have fought wars in an attempt to annihilate each other for thousands of years.

A Muslim firmly believes that divinely revealed books were actually revealed by the Compassionate God to His prophets to guide mankind. The Quran is not the only spoken Word of God, but God also spoke to prophets before Prophet Muhammad.

“…and to Moses God spoke directly.” (Quran 4:164)

God describes true believers are those who:

“…believe in what has been sent down to you (Muhammad) and what has been sent down before you…” (Quran 2:4)

Muslims uphold and respect the following scriptures:

(i) The Quran itself, revealed to the Prophet Muhammad.

(ii) The Torah (Tawrah in Arabic) revealed to the Prophet Moses (different from the Old Testament read today).

(iii) The Gospel (Injeel in Arabic) revealed to Prophet Jesus (different from the New Testament read in churches today).

(iv) The Psalms (Zaboor in Arabic) of David.

(v) The Scrolls (Suhuf in Arabic) of Moses and Abraham.

According to the Qur'an all Muslims have to believe in God, his revelations, his angels, his messengers, and in the "Day of Judgment". Also, there are other beliefs that differ between particular sects. The Sunni concept of predestination is called divine decree,while the Shi'a version is called divine justice. Unique to the Shi'a is the doctrine of Imamah, or the political and spiritual leadership of the Imams.


Now Moses brought down the tablets upon which God had written "Thou shalt not kill"

Your concept of God is not flawed, your religion is flawed by it's adherents.

Hehe, nice try brother, but your thesis, although you try very hard to make it scientific is completely illogical.

I am going to orient myself around your calculations which are ... well childish.

For the first that the Earth is round.... This has been known from the ancient times. It was the religion (Islam+Christianity+Judaism) that, like many times, completely fabricated the truth.

So here is only one possible explanation... that it is spherical. There is no magic, super beings involved, it is just a matter of observations. ( You can see the curve even if you go on a mountain or if you look at the open sea).

So here is no 50/50 but only one choice. ( unless you are really retarded, then you could say that the Earth is a triangle)

The second part when you unscientifically name the possible materials for existance of life. The fact that we are made 99% of water is a knowledge that has been also known throughout the ancient times, so again there is no higher being that has to tell us this but simple observations and logical thinking.

But it is completely unlogical to name wood, metal,stone... as a possible source. So here is again only one choice.

And about the moon... LOL, this is funny, but once again the ancient civilizations knew a lot more that the people at the time that the Quran, Bible and Torah were written.

Again they knew at least 5000 years BC that the moon does not have its own source of energy. Again one just has to observe the behavior of the moon to figure that it merely reflects the light of the sun. (I don't know how you say it in English but when a moon is not full, but is partly dark it is only logical to deduct that it can not have an energy source of its own.


So you see as much as you try to scientifically explain the existance of "God" that is not possible when "he" does not exist.

But the probability now (if you presume that an intelligent human is calculating it ) is 100%.

And this knowledge has been ,before the modern religions, a common knowledge and to use it as an explanation of an imaginary being is absurd.

Where is the proof of god,there is an afterlife though millons of people have had experiences. [link to www.newsmonster.co.uk]

Try again with this link. [link to www.newsmonster.co.uk]

Try proving that there isn't 100 billion x 100 billion other GODS, one for each "planetary system" throughout the visible universe; and why your particular GOD is the greatest of 'em all.

God cannot be proven one way or the other, your point is also valid, the bible states "Let us make man in our image" showing clearly there is more than one God in the bible.

The difference is not so much the belief in a "God" but in the proposed religion, any religion is nothing without followers and the need to control those followers, hence you have the promises of "eternal life", 72 virgins, etc and eternal damnation/fires of hell for the non-believers.

So "heathens", "unbelievers" and any who do not follow "your" particular religion are considered targets. While you may quote "God the merciful" or the "God of love" the end result is the religion and it's followers are still violent, bloodthirsty savages.

aaargh!

my EYES!

"God" is just a form of social control.

think again

Op you use Islam as your source for faith based facts...
KUDOS to you!

Please ensure this logic is applied when dealing with those of other faiths.. (Infidels)

Peace

The REAL God(Truth & Light), needs no proving; for it stands the test of time! Either something is true, or it isn't.....and no amount of discussion will change one iota of it.

All the lies of eternity can not make one truth into a lie.....never could, and never will!

ASK AN ATHEIST IF AN HOLY WAR EXISTS?

Religion is social control.

A God creates an entire universe, millions of galaxies, billions of suns, hundreds of billions of planets and you are so self-absorbed that you think you matter?

That's funny!

Ofcourse they exist, they are wars based on false beliefs.

Anyways the OP is just a brainless Harun Yahya linkdumper that isn't interested in discussion.

[link to www2.truman.edu]

Harun Yahya and Islamic Creationism

"Darwin Day" could probably only be thought of in the United States. After all, among industrialized nations, the US is the only one with a strong creationist movement, causing endless battles over school curricula. Other countries have their anti-evolutionary moments, but the American market for creationism is the largest. Ken Ham might present his "Answers in Genesis" (www.answersingenesis.org) with an Australian accent, but he found it best to move to the US.

Of course, Americans are not the only people who have a strong streak of old-time religion in their culture, and who perceive the strain modern science puts on the old verities. In this time of religious revival around the globe, the Islamic world is perhaps the most striking in its attachment to a scripturally literalist faith. However, until recently, "creation-science" was not very visible in Muslim lands. Ironically, this was mainly because Darwinian evolution rarely appeared in education or in intellectual life.

In 1873, in the days of the Ottoman Empire, Mithat Efendi mentioned Darwin's theory in one of his writings. The religious scholars put out a fatwa declaring him an apostate. In the twentieth century, the scholars lost their traditional power in many countries, and Western ideas increased in influence. Still, Muslim thinkers took it for granted that either evolution did not occur, or that any development in life happened under direct divine guidance. The Quran, after all, declares special creation, particularly of humans. The blind naturalistic process modern science has come to accept obviously had to be wrong; the Darwinian view of nature was but another indication of Western degeneration in religion and morals. However, Muslim apologists rarely felt a need to elaborate their dismissal of Darwin.

In the US, creationism appeals to a religiously conservative population who have become upwardly mobile, joining professional classes where technical knowledge is highly valued. They are concerned both to affirm their traditional, morality-infused view of nature and at the same time, respect science and technology. Creation-science promises to accomplish this without compromise. Interestingly, a similar situation has developed in the Islamic world. Particularly in Turkey, long the most modernized among Muslim nations, the last few decades has been a time of both religious revival, and of the growing power of a religiously conservative segment of society who operates in a global capitalist economy. And so, perhaps unsurprisingly, creationism has recently erupted in Turkey, and influenced other Muslim countries. Muslim immigrant communities in the West -- also caught between old-time religion and the modern world -- have also been increasingly exposed to creationism, often imported from Turkey.

One name dominates Turkish creationism: Harun Yahya. Supposedly this is the pen name of Adnan Oktar, the leader of a religious order. But Yahya is credited with so many books, articles, videos, and web pages (www.hyahya.org) that it is hard to believe this is a one-man industry. Plus the intellectual prowess of leaders of religious orders are commonly exaggerated -- tales of incredible intellectual productivity serve as a kind of modern miracle story, bolstering the stature of charismatic teachers. So Yahya is not really a person but the flag under which the most prominent Turkish creationist activities set sail.

What is immediately striking about Yahya's productions is how modern and media-conscious they are. Before the Yahya era, expressions of creationist sentiment in Turkey were generally confined to religious intellectual circles; these writings rarely went beyond throwaway references to the obvious intelligent design in biology, and denunciations of evolution generally occupied a few passages in books concentrating on larger religious themes. Some religious orders striving to create an Islamic version of modernity attacked evolution in their "science magazines," but these had limited effect -- a well-heeled and media-savvy creationism, with great production values, continually harping on the evils of evolution, was unheard of. In contrast, Yahya's material is in full color, printed on glossy paper, copiously illustrated, popular in orientation (it uses few Arabic terms, unlike much religious literature), and available in all sorts of modern media. These publications are ubiquitous, found not just in bookstores but even in supermarket chains owned by the new breed of "Islamic corporations."

It is clear that Yahya's project commands an immense amount of resources. It is doubtful that Yahya's lavishly produced materials support themselves -- they are priced to be affordable, and even obtaining them for free takes no great effort. The August 2002 issue of Mercek, his "monthly scientific and cultural magazine" sold for about $1.80, including two VCD's (video CD-ROM's), and the only ad for non-Yahya merchandise it contained was for a series of materials to learn English (important for the upwardly mobile). Yahya's web sites make most of his books available online, in a wide variety of languages -- at no charge. Turkish creationism has gone international, and Yahya's books are as easily found and as prominently displayed in Islamic bookstores in London as in Istanbul. And the organization behind all of this, and the sources of its finances, are virtually unknown. The Turkish state, notoriously unable to bring the underground economy under control, or even collect taxes from most businesses, is also unable to enforce regulations on religious foundations.

Another striking aspect of Yahya's material is how much of it is taken, with minimal changes, from Western creationist literature such as that associated with the Institute for Creation Research (ICR). Since the Quran is not as specific as the Genesis story, Islamic creationists usually allow an old earth, so Yahya discards flood-geology and is noncommittal about the age of the earth. But the rest is there, flavored with quotations from some "Intelligent Design" figures, and all set in a matrix of traditional Islamic apologetics hammering on how obvious it is that there is a designing intelligence behind all the wonders of nature. ICR-style creationism, which we tend to think of as a sectarian, evangelical Protestant peculiarity, turns out to be pre-adapted to an Islamic environment.

Yahya also promotes other beliefs far from mainstream science and scholarship, besides creationism. These tend to be his versions of conspiratorial ideas popular in the Muslim world, such as Masonic plots and holocaust denial. But even when indulging these politically-colored fantasies, Yahya has a way of getting back to denouncing evolution. Fascism: The Bloody Ideology of Darwinism (Istanbul: Kultur, 2002) begins with a "To The Reader" section, where Yahya explains that evolution is at the root of evil today:

The reason why a special chapter is assigned to the collapse of the theory of evolution is that this theory constitutes the basis of all anti-spiritual philosophies. Since Darwinism rejects the fact of creation, and therefore the existence of God, during the last 140 years it has caused many people to abandon their faith or fall into doubt. Therefore, showing that this theory is a deception is a very important duty, which is strongly related to the religion. It is imperative that this important service be rendered to everyone. Some of our readers may find the chance to read only one of our books. Therefore, we think it appropriate to spare a chapter for a summary of this subject.

The same preface and the same anti-evolutionary chapter, "The Misconception of Evolution" (with different illustrations) appear in Islam Denounces Terrorism (3rd edition, Bristol: Amal Press, 2002). In this book, Yahya treats the reader not only to standard apologetics about Islam being a religion of peace, but in his chapter "The Real Roots of Terrorism: Darwinism and Materialism" exposes the true culprit behind events like September 11: evolution. Apparently, "the way to stop acts of terrorism is to put an end to Darwinist-materialist education, to educate young people in accord with a curricula [sic] based on true scientific findings and to instil in them the fear of God and the desire to act wisely and scrupulously." (p. 147)

What then, of opposition to Yahya, particularly in Turkey, where his name is known best? Unfortunately, this is weak. Turkey is a "developing country," a polite term to describe a place which is economically a colony administered by the IMF, politically unstable, and poor. The Turkish scientific community is weak, unable to find even a unified voice in fighting the creationists, let alone muster comparable resources. Occasionally, political secularists complain about Yahya, but secularists can do little else lately but wring hands and hope against hope that the European Community will let Turkey become a member, and maybe then everything will be all right. At the time of writing, Turkey was poised for elections at the end of 2002, and an Islamist party was expected to come out with the largest share of the vote.

Still, friends of Darwin can find a few reasons to be optimistic. After all, creationism is a reaction, and the very fact that a Harun Yahya exists is evidence that evolutionary ideas have penetrated far enough into Turkish culture that religious conservatives feel a need to take action. And Yahya becoming known throughout the Islamic world might mean that evolution is making inroads there as well.

On the other hand, there are even more reasons to be pessimistic. Yahya seems successful in grabbing public attention, with little opposition. As the degree of conservatism of Turkish governments fluctuates, the degree of creationism in high school biology texts also goes up and down, but evolution, if present, will inevitably be relegated to the last chapter the class will not have time to cover. And the notion that the complexities of life and the universe can only result from divine design runs very deep in Islamic apologetics. Muslims will, by and large, to continue to see Darwinian evolution as obviously false, and maybe even evil, for a long time to come. With Harun Yahya, we have a phenomenon which we in the Western world we should carefully watch and learn from as we celebrate "Darwin Day." For here we have a creationism which threatens to be successful in its ambitions to drive evolution out of the culture.

Demonstrating that even in 1873 alternative ideas met with death, what hope have the Muslims got to be scientists or thinkers?

Many ardent religionists are so insecure in their beliefs that ,if they could, they would kill people who don't believe the same way.

You can stop right there. There is no creation. EOP

Lies exist and 'God' is a lie so 'God' must exist.

I like Daniel's 69 weeks of years

from the decree to rebuild the temple to Jesus entering Jerusalem to proclaim Himself Messiah exactly 483 years

prophecy fulfilled to the year

the 70th week approaches

btw since evangelizing is forbidden in Moslem countries Jesus Himself is appearing to Moslems in dreams and visions and they are being saved by the thousands

Why Bother??

Here is the Einstein of The Bible. Harold Camping explaining. Don't mind the first 40-45 seconds into it. It begins around 45 seconds into it with him speaking. The guy is like 85 years old.

Proof of God and can i Trust the Bible "Atheist"

[link to www.youtube.com]

[link to www.youtube.com]


:)

None of the circular reasoned logic above had proved anything to this Atheist.

OP why must you prove god to an atheist in the first place?
It's their belief not yours.
Do you want an atheist to disprove god to you?
You cannot prove or disprove god(s).
Maybe if everyone would just stick to what they believe and let everyone else do the same, then maybe we might get somewhere.
Also if people of different beliefs focused on the common things they find in each and worked on just that, then maybe we might get somewhere.
But I know it may be too hard for some of you to admit other beliefs have some truth to them, because in doing so you admit maybe yours is not the only way to god(s).

I wish their would have more posts on this topic. My 16 year old son says he is an atheist and I would some good points to discuss with him. My way of handling thus far has been to tell him...its a free country, he is free to believe what he wants, I can`t make him believe. I also told him I am glad he is thinking for himself but to keep an upon mind because he is young yet. He says he wants to believe but just doesn`t. He is a very scientific, smart minded kid. He wants hard proof of things.

How would you handle it if your child was an atheist? I like other peoples opinions so tell me what you think.