The Feast of Pentecost and The Rapture of the Church

Those people over in Israel, are not God's chosen people !

They deny JESUS, plus these is no rapture.

The word Rapture is not even in The Word of GOD.


Man,, you people, who get caught up in false doctrine never cease to amaze me.


I can prove to you that there is no Rapture, do you want to see the proof?

I will show you using the BIBLE only, and clearly, and with one more post.

Or have you ruled out that you may be deceived ?

The Rapture, Debunking this false doctrine useing the KJV bible.






Those who have been closest to Christ suffered the most, not the least. Each one of us must carry our cross to our own Calvary. Pre-trib Christians fail to see this - there is no Heaven without the cross. If we are to be Christ-like we must be Christ-like in all things. The early Christians were martyred, they weren't raptured away. The end-time Christians may very well be asked to shed their blood in testimony for their love in God and His Truth


For YOU, my beloved Christian brothers and sisters, I have been given a light to shine and I must not waste the Glory that God has shown me upon myself. So please read this post completely with an humble heart and pray to the Lord Christ Jesus the Word and Lamb and mighty high preist to test what I have labored to expose. Test it by the Word of God and through prayer, see that your eyes and ears are not clouded with pride and self-empowerment. Remember to whom that over comes this world WILL be rewarded with the glorious things of God, that we as yet can not know. If you knew who you really are, ye would not sin against the ALMIGHTY.

This is a shared effort and work, from other brothers and myself, let the credit and glory if there be any, go to The Father God.



The Pre-Trib-Rapture belief is a deception !

Will the church and everyone go through the tribulation period or not ?
First we must clear up some of the belief systems that exist and their theology. The list below includes different views from assorted modern day religious groups.

Pre-Tribulational Rapture: The pretrib view holds that the Church will be "raptured" before the entire seventieth week of Daniel. This is a prevalent view in countries that have never experienced widespread persecution, such as the United States. Jesus then comes back bodily at the end of the seventieth week of Daniel to rule and judge.

Mid-Tribulational Rapture: The Church will escape the last half of the seventieth week, also known as the Great Tribulation. Jesus then comes back bodily at the end of the Tribulation to rule and judge.

Pre-Wrath Rapture: The basic aspects of the prewrath view are that the "rapture" is distinct from the "second coming" and the "rapture" will take place between the sixth and seventh seals. Jesus then comes back bodily at the end of the seventieth week of Daniel to rule and judge.

Post-Tribulational Second Coming: In most versions of postribulationism, the "rapture" and the "second coming" are at the same time. Post-Trib people do not consider themselves to be Pre-Wrath. Jesus Christ comes back for His elect, they meet Him in the air and He comes bodily to earth immediately to rule and reign.

Preterism: This view has several variations. It places many or all eschatological events in the past, especially during the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. (R.C. Sproul, The Last Days According to Jesus, p. 228) The extreme version of this view denies the need for Jesus to return bodily to rule and reign because He supposedly already did and the Church is Christ.

Amillennialism: Amillennialism is the system of theology which does not include a future millennial reign of Christ on the earth. They believe that Jesus Christ is reigning today through His Church and that Satan is bound. Thus they deny the bodily return of Christ to rule and judge.

Postmillennialism/Dominionism: Postmillennialism and Dominionism are becoming hard to distinguish apart these days. They are fusing into one system of belief, especially popular in the Third Wave counterfeit revival. It is the belief that Christ will return after the Church has Christianized society, through a Christian force called "Joel's Army". He will not rapture His elect because they will be victorious here on earth. Jesus Christ does not come back bodily but returns "in His Church" and reigns on earth through His Church spiritually. denies that Christ returns bodily to rule and judge.





ONLY BIBLE SCRIPTURE USED HERE TO FIND THE TRUTH !


It is right in our face !

1st Corinthians 15 verse 51 and 52

51. Behold, I shew you a mystery (REMEMBER THIS "Mystery")
; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
NOTE at the Last Trump



1 Thessalonians 4: 16-17
16. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17. Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Note the" Trump" and the dead 1st and then we are caught up together in the clouds, ( not heaven ) but clouds !

Ok when are the TRUMPS !


Revelation 8


NOTE, that before the LAST trump all hell breaks loose upon the earth.


Revelation 8
1. And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
2. And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.
3. And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.
4. And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
5. And the angel took the censer, and filled it with fire of the altar, and cast it into the earth: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake.
6. And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
7. The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.
8. And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;
9. And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.
10. And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;
11. And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.
12. And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.
13. And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!
Revelation 9
1. And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2. And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3. And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4. And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5. And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6. And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
7. And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
8. And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
9. And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
10. And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
11. And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
12. One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.
13. And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
14. Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
15. And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
16. And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
17. And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
18. By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
19. For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.
20. And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
21. Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.
Revelation 10
1. And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:
2. And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth,
3. And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.
4. And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.
5. And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
6. And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
7. But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
8. And the voice which I heard from heaven
unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which
upon the sea and upon the earth.
9. And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.
10. And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.
11. And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

Note the Mystery ( finished )


----------------------------


There's More..

2 Thessalonians 2
3. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4. Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?


Notice that word "and".( we will ALL see the rise of the Anti-Christ to power. )

Matthew 24:29-31

29. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

There it is in black and white, folks. Immediately after the tribulation the elect are gathered.



More Convincing Truth

THE LAST DAY


Quote:
Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Quote:
Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Quote:
Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Quote:
Joh 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.





------------MORE--PROOF-----------



Jesus prays that we are not taken out of the world !
Quote:
John 17:15
" I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. "
17:20 -" Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;"


Revelations 3:10
10. Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
11. Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
12. Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
13. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit unto the churches.

The hour of Temptation, is not the Tribulation period.

The only thing the ELECT will be spared from is the HOUR of temptation !

And the Elect, may be only 144,000 people not the great mulititude which no man could number. Today we have over 6.2 billion people on Earth.
You do the math !


There you have it, if you have eye's to see and ears to hear !


This Prophet ( Isaiah ) was sawed in half and the Lord loved him dearly !


(( THINK ))
We the followers of Christ Jesus shall suffer as well !

Isaiah 66:4
4. I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer.
We all will face death of the body. Be not fearful , but instead be a soldier for the Lord.


Please study our fathers word, so that YOU are not of the great number of people deluted and siezed by false doctrine.

The word rapture comes from the Latin word, raptus, which literally means seized.

Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. 32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. 35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. 36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

IN the days of Noah those that were taken, were taken AWAY, not to gain reward, but KILLED ! So just as the verse above says, As in the days of Noe !


Matthew 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. 40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.


So what happend to the Apostles ?


Some have commented how wonderful it must have been to have been chosen as one of the apostles, or to have been John the Baptist, or to have been among the earliest of Christians who actually saw and heard Jesus Christ in person. It certainly would have been a great honor and joy to have been among those pioneers of the true church.

A New Day However, with the knowledge and understanding came responsibility. They were expected to go out into the world and be active witnesses of what they saw and heard. That was their purpose. In the political and religious climate of that time, the God-defying hatred that got Jesus the Christ killed, or He allowed himself to be killed. (which really has not changed at all), many of them lost their lives as well.

The Bible does not record what happened to all of the apostles, however there are other references to their activities. Some are rather fanciful, while some are more trustworthy. From those sources, a general consensus has been established among historians.

From the information that we have, it is very likely that John was the only one of the original Twelve Apostles to escape martyrdom, at least at an early age. After he wrote the book of Revelation, while a prisoner of the Romans (see Ancient Empires - Rome), even he too may then have been killed.

John The Baptist

John The Baptist was beheaded by Herod. (Matthew 14:1-12) (see Herod The herods )

Stephen

The account of Stephen is very well documented in the Bible (Acts chapters 6 and 7). He is generally regarded as the first Christian martyr.

It has been estimated that about 2,000 Christians, along with Nicanor, one of the seven deacons (Acts 6:5), also suffered martyrdom during the great persecution that arose after Stephen (Acts 8:1).

James, the brother of John

James was "put to death with the sword" by King Herod (Acts 12:2)


Philip

Reportedly suffered martyrdom at Heliopolis, in Phrygia. He was severely flogged, imprisoned, and later crucified.


Matthew

The former tax collector, he was killed with a halberd (a pike fitted with an ax head) in Nadabah.


James

Stoned and clubbed to death in Jerusalem.


Matthias

He was stoned, then beheaded at Jerusalem.


Andrew, the brother of Peter

He was crucified on an X-shaped cross, two ends of which were in the ground. Hence the origin of the term, "St. Andrew's Cross".


Mark

Mark was reportedly torn to pieces by a mob in Alexandria after he told them that their god, a statue carved from stone, was worthless (see Images and Idols).


Peter

Peter was reportedly crucified, upside down, during the reign of Emperor Nero.



Paul

Beheaded, or torn to pieces by wild animals in the arena, during the time of Nero. See On The Road To Damascus, Paul In Athens, Paul In Rome, Paul's First Missionary Journey, Paul's Journey To Rome, Paul's Second Missionary Journey and Paul's Third Missionary Journey.


Jude

The brother of James, often called Thaddeus. He was crucified at Edessa.



Bartholomew

Tortured and crucified in India.


Thomas

Thomas was reportedly killed with a spear in India.


Luke

Luke was the author of the Gospel which is called by his name, and also probably the Book Of Acts. One account states that he died of old age, while another says that he was hanged in an olive tree in Greece.



Simon the Zealot

He traveled widely, and is believed to have been crucified in what is today Britain.



John

John took care of Mary, the mother of Jesus Christ (not the mother of God), after the Crucifixion (John 19:26-27). He went on to write the Book of Revelation while a prisoner on Patmos. He may be the only apostle who escaped a violent death.



Barnabas

Barnabas is believed to have been killed about 10 years after Paul.


Last I also think that just about every Prophet was also killed, for there efforts and work that was to bring truth and warn, and labor for God.


How can anyone think that "They" somehow will escape, without cost ?





In REV chapter 21 it said the fearfull, will not enter in to the new City Jerusalem, people who want to escape the tribulation are in my oppion, cowardly and fearful.


Anyone can copy/paste this info., and use it as a wake up, for good purpose's.

Welcome to the machine.
God wants to chew you up and spit you out.
Religion is fake

Shavu'ot/Pentecost [link to www.jewfaq.org]

Shavu'ot (in Hebrew)

You shall count for yourselves -- from the day after the Shabbat, from the day when you bring the Omer of the waving -- seven Shabbats, they shall be complete. Until the day after the seventh sabbath you shall count, fifty days... You shall convoke on this very day -- there shall be a holy convocation for yourselves -- you shall do no laborious work; it is an eternal decree in your dwelling places for your generations. -Leviticus 21:15-16, 21

Shavu'ot, the Festival of Weeks, is the second of the three major festivals with both historical and agricultural significance (the other two are Passover and Sukkot). Agriculturally, it commemorates the time when the first fruits were harvested and brought to the Temple, and is known as Hag ha-Bikkurim (the Festival of the First Fruits). Historically, it celebrates the giving of the Torah at Mount Sinai, and is also known as Hag Matan Torateinu (the Festival of the Giving of Our Torah).

The period from Passover to Shavu'ot is a time of great anticipation. We count each of the days from the second day of Passover to the day before Shavu'ot, 49 days or 7 full weeks, hence the name of the festival. See The Counting of the Omer. [link to www.jewfaq.org]
The counting reminds us of the important connection between Passover and Shavu'ot: Passover freed us physically from bondage, but the giving of the Torah on Shavu'ot redeemed us spiritually from our bondage to idolatry and immorality. Shavu'ot is also known as Pentecost, because it falls on the 50th day; however, Shavu'ot has no particular similarity to the Christian holiday of Pentecost, which occurs 50 days after their Spring holiday.

It is noteworthy that the holiday is called the time of the giving of the Torah, rather than the time of the receiving of the Torah. The sages point out that we are constantly in the process of receiving the Torah, that we receive it every day, but it was first given at this time. Thus it is the giving, not the receiving, that makes this holiday significant.

Shavu'ot is not tied to a particular calendar date, but to a counting from Passover. Because the length of the months used to be variable, determined by observation (see Jewish Calendar), [link to www.jewfaq.org]
and there are two new moons between Passover and Shavu'ot, Shavu'ot could occur on the 5th or 6th of Sivan. However, now that we have a mathematically determined calendar, and the months between Passover and Shavu'ot do not change length on the mathematical calendar, Shavu'ot is always on the 6th of Sivan (the 6th and 7th outside of Israel. See Extra Day of Holidays.) [link to www.jewfaq.org]

Work is not permitted during Shavu'ot.

It is customary to stay up the entire first night of Shavu'ot and study Torah, then pray as early as possible in the morning.

It is customary to eat a dairy meal at least once during Shavu'ot. There are varying opinions as to why this is done. Some say it is a reminder of the promise regarding the land of Israel, a land flowing with "milk and honey." According to another view, it is because our ancestors had just received the Torah (and the dietary laws therein), and did not have both meat and dairy dishes available. See Separation of Meat and Dairy.

The book of Ruth is read at this time. Again, there are varying reasons given for this custom, and none seems to be definitive.
List of Dates

Shavu'ot will occur on the following days of the Gregorian calendar:

* Jewish Year 5768: sunset June 8, 2008 - nightfall June 10, 2008
* Jewish Year 5769: sunset May 28, 2009 - nightfall May 30, 2009
* Jewish Year 5770: sunset May 18, 2010 - nightfall May 20, 2010
* Jewish Year 5771: sunset June 7, 2011 - nightfall June 9, 2011
* Jewish Year 5772: sunset May 26, 2012 - nightfall May 28, 2012

For additional holiday dates, see Links to Jewish Calendars. [link to www.jewfaq.org]

[link to www.fivedoves.com]

For those interested in alternate Pentecost dates, I just received an e-mail from the Kairites, which may be found by googling Kairite Korner. They place Pentecost on June l5, Sunday, this year, and explain why it must always be on a Sunday. The Kairites are a group of Jews who use only the Torah as their guide, not consulting the Prophets or the Psalms. Nehemiah Gordon is their most famous member in the
United States.

[link to www.fivedoves.com]

We are now looking at three possible Dates for the Rapture,

The 9th of June 2008
The 11th of June 2008
The 15th of June 2008

We have also come to understand that Pentecost is referred to as the Feast of Harvest.

The Lord Himself referred to "the Harvest" as The End of the Age.

I particularly love an old Tyndale translation I came across, of Matt. 28:20.

"Behold I am with you everyday until the ending of the age"

I believe the Lord is saying,

Behold I am with you everyday until the Harvest Feast.

Which means the Lord could either be saying,

Behold I am with you everyday until the 9th of June 2008

or

Behold I am with you everyday until the 11th of June 2008

or

Behold I am with you everyday until the 15th of June 2008.

I would just like to encourage everyone to remain in the Word of God. Remember the Holy Spirit is regenerating, quickening and sanctifying us as we read it because we Love Jesus Christ.

The degree of glory in our changed bodies is going to depend on how much time we've spent speaking the Word of God during the course of our entire natural lives.

This is why the Lord said,

"If anyone loves Me, he will keep My Word; and My Father will love him and We will come to him and make Our home with him."

(John14:23)

THE LORD'S HOME IS OUR GLORIFIED BODIES. HE CAN ONLY BUILD THEM FOR US IF WE SPEAK HIS WORD IN LOVE.

For we read,

"...We have the same Spirit of Faith...we also believe and there fore speak, knowing that He who raised up the Lord Jesus will also raise us up with Jesus..." (2Cor.4:14)

Again we read,

"But let us who are of the Day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation (that is, the hope of the redemption of our bodies)." (1Thess.5:8)

also we read,

"...Speaking the Truth(of faith) in Love may grow up in all things into Him who is the Head-Christ-..." (Eph.4:15)

Our spiritual bodies are already in us, and they are growing everyday as we speak the Word of God. My hope is that within the next few days, our spiritual bodies are birthed into this realm.

do remain blessed

The Pre-Tribulation Rapture - FOR NONBELIEVERS

When dealing with doctrinal issues, sometimes some truths are right there in the Bible in front of our noses, and it's easy for us to understand. Other truths are more challenging and require us to look at the whole chapter, book, or bible in order to fully grasp the concepts. When any one verse dealing with a particular doctrinal issue appears to stand apart from other similar truths, we should suspect that there may be an interpretational or possibly a translational issue involved that needs further research. I believe the doctrine of the rapture is one such difficult truth.

Below are some reasons I believe the Pre-Tribulational Rapture doctrine is likely to be the most Biblically accurate view:

1. Imminency. We're supposed to look, watch, and wait for Jesus' imminent return. Nothing has to happen before Jesus returns for us. (1 Cor. 1:7; Phil. 3:20; 1 Thes. 1:10; Titus 2:13; Heb. 9:28; 1 Peter 1:13; Jude 21)
The non-Pre-Trib positions ALL require certain things to happen 1st before Jesus can return. Things like the antichrist's 7 yr peace treaty with Israel, the rebuilding of the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem on the Temple Mount right on or next to the Muslim Dome of the Rock, the 7 Seals of Judgement, etc. These things destroy imminency.

2. Dispensation of the Tribulation. The Bible states that Daniel's 70th Week/Tribulation/Great Tribulation/Time of Jacob's Trouble/Day of the Lord/Wrath of God are all things related to God's dealing with Israel getting ready to restore it back to His grace. (Deut. 4:29-30; Jer. 30:4-11; Ezek. 20:22-44; 22:13-22) This is not a time for the Church, but a time for "those who dwell on the earth"- meaning non-Christians. (Rev. 3:10; 6:10; 8:13; 11:10; 13:8, 12, 14; 17:2, 8)

3. Dispensation of the Church. The Church is promised to be taken up to the Father's House. (John 14:1-3 Compare this verse with 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18) How can that be if the Church remains here on earth thru the 2nd Coming. Going up to meet Jesus in the air at the moment He's coming down to finish off the antichrist and his armies is not the same as the Church going up to heaven. And as I stated earlier, there is no mention of Jesus going back to heaven in the Bible after His 2nd Coming. And I don't think He's going to open heaven and come down with all His angels just to pick up the Church in the air, then do a mid-flight U-turn & go back up to heaven. Then grab some horses and linens for the Church. Then do another U-turn and come back immediately to finish off the antichrist. The Bible doesn't say that.

Also the Church is a Mystery. (Eph. 3:1-13; 2:11-22) That means a new Truth has just been revealed. The Old Testament prophets knew nothing about it or it's role in God's plan. But they did know a lot about the Tribulation period. This is further evidence that the two ages: the Old Testament Israel era & the New Testament Church era will not overlap. Right now, the Jews and Gentiles are co-mingled in the Church, (Eph. 2- 3) but this can't be when you look at God's 70 Weeks program for Israel in Daniel. The two must be seperated prior to the beginning of Daniel's 70th Week, which is the beginning of the 7 year Tribulation.

The Church has also been promised deliverance from the TIME of God's wrath. That means, "out of the time period" of the Tribulation. (1 Thes. 1:9-10; 5:9; Rev. 3:10)

4. Time Gap Needed. A time period is needed in heaven to handle some things that will take place with the Church after the rapture.

The Judgment Seat of Christ (or Bema in Greek) needs to happen to Christians in the Church in heaven before they return with Jesus to the Battle of Armageddon. (2 Corinthians 5:10) This is when they get their rewards for good Christian service (or not)

The Bride of Christ (the Church) has to be in heaven to get ready for the Marriage Supper of the Lamb (Revelation 19:7-10) as I mentioned earlier. They can't do this if they don't go up to heaven before the 2nd Coming.

The 24 Elders around the Throne in heaven appear to be very representative of the Church. If this is so, the Church must be in heaven prior to the opening of the 1st Scroll of the Tribulation- the opening kick-off if you will. (Revelation 4:1- 5:14) In the New Testament, the elders represent the Church. (Acts 15:6; 20:28) In the Old Testament, the elders were always 24 in number, and appointed by King David to represent the entire preiesthood. In Jesus' new Millenial Kingdom, Christians will assume the title of the Priesthood. (Revelation 20:6)

Where are all the mortals? If all the Christians are raptured up at the 2nd Coming of Christ, who will be left to re-populate the earth during the Millenial Kingdom? All the bad guys will be gone because of the Battle of Armageddon and the Wheat & Tares/Sheep & Goats Judgement. Raptured Christians will have immortal bodies and will no longer pro-create. (sorry) But the Bible clearly states that there will be mortal Christians who survived the cataclysm and who would carry on mortal life on earth. (Isa. 65:20-25). And, the Wheat & Tares/Sheep & Goats Judgement would also be impossible if all the good guys were already raptured. There would be no need for a separation of the two groups of mortals. This is an impossible situation for the Post-Tribulation Rapture proponents.

5. The Presence of the Holy Spirit. The 'man of lawlessness'/antichrist/beast is said to be held back for now. (2 Thessalonians 2:1-12) The 'restrainer of evil'/Holy Spirit (2 Thessalonians 2:6-8) is at work in the Church right now and will leave with it in the Pre-Trib rapture. This will then free the antichrist to unleash his demonic power on the world soon after, which is the first Seal of Judgment to be opened in heaven after the rapture. The Pre-Trib view is the only view that can work here.

6. Here are some comparisons between the Rapture & the 2nd Coming:

Rapture: is a translation or resurrection coming where the Lord comes FOR His Church/Bride (1 Cor. 15:51-52; 1 Thess. 4:15-17) and taking her to His Father's House. (John 14:3).
2nd Coming: Jesus is coming WITH his saints/Church/Bride to set up His Millennial Kingdom on earth for 1000 yrs. (Rev. 19; Zech. 14:4-5; Matt. 24:27-31)

Rapture: is a Mystery, a newly revealed truth (1 Cor. 15:51-54; Col. 1:26) not known to the Old Testament prophets, and making it a separate event from anything they have foreseen. The New Testament talks about the Rapture of the Church and the 2nd Coming.
2nd Coming: was predicted in the Old Testament. (Dan. 12:1-3; Zech. 12:10; 14:4) The Old Testament of Israel just talks about the 2nd Coming.

More comparisons between the two:

Rapture: Translation of all believers
2nd Coming: No translation of anyone

Rapture: Translated saints go up to heaven
2nd Coming: Translated saints return to earth

Rapture: Earth is not judged at that time
2nd Coming: Earth is judged and righteousness is restored

Rapture: Imminent and sign-less
2nd Coming: Follows exact signs and days according to
Daniel and Revelation prior to.

Rapture: Is for Believers only
2nd Coming: Is for everyone

Rapture: Happens before the Day of Wrath
2nd Coming: Concludes the Day of Wrath

Rapture: Has no reference to Satan
2nd Coming: Satan is bound up for 1000 yrs.

Rapture: Jesus comes in the air only
2nd Coming: Jesus comes down to the earth

Rapture: Only Christians see Him
2nd Coming: Everyone sees Him

Rapture: Tribulation then begins
2nd Coming: Millenial Kingdom begins

7. Practical Results of a Pre-Trib Rapture. Some people think the Pre-Tribbers have illusions of escapism that will destroy their witness and faith if the Pre-Trib Rapture doesn't play out. They think Pre-Tribbers don't care about anything or anyone because they think they have a 'Get out of Jail Free' card for the Tribulation. However, they might not realize that Jesus will reward Christians for good service at the Judgment Seat of Christ later in heaven after the rapture. If there is no good Christian service, there may be little or no rewards waiting for them after the rapture.

The fact that Jesus could return today for us should be a good motivator for living a good Christian life and doing good works for Christ.

Also, knowing that loved ones: friends and family, who aren't Christians will be left behind after the rapture to face the coming cataclysm of the Great Tribulation should be enough to motivate them to try to lead as many people as possible to Christ before it's too late.

If the Pre-Wrath or Mid-Tribulation or Post-Tribulation Rapture view was accurate, a simple study of Daniel's 70th Week would then show you exactly when Jesus is returning for the 2nd Coming. All you have to do is note when the antichrist's 7 year peace treaty with Israel is signed, or note just when the antichrist's abomination of desolation in the new Jewish Temple happens, and you can compute the exact day of our Lord's 2nd Coming. No imminency there. No need to always live a righteous life there. You could then just sin and sin and wait around until the last day before Christ's return and then repent and be good. Based on my understanding of the Bible, I just don't think it works like that.

And whoever said that we must suffer through the Tribulation to be purified, or to do good works in it to get saved?

Ephesians 2:7-9
7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

What about everyone who has died already who didn't suffer any hardships at all? By some people's definition, they are not saved because they have suffered no great tribulation. That just doesn't make any sense. Jesus said that we would be delivered from the time and hour of God's judgment to "those who dwell on the earth." His great judgment is for those who have rejected Jesus, not for His children. Satan has given Christians plenty of tribulation over the years, and continues to do so even today.

[link to www.persecution.org]

Revelation 3:10 (KJV)
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

That is the 'Blessed Hope!"

Titus 2:13 (KJV)
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ

!MARANATHA!

[link to www.gotquestions.org]
[link to www.raptureme.com]
[link to www.gotquestions.org]

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From Chuck Missler. Seems that Pentecost is around June 9th from what I read in his commentary. Also Jews in Israel are celebrating on the 9th (including Messianic Jews). So I guess the June 15th date is wrong. Schedule your Pentecost party around the 9th this year. Maranatha!


A QUESTION OF DATES -

Resurrection Sunday, more commonly known as Easter, is only a few days away. This year we celebrate Easter on March 23rd, almost a month before Passover. Yet Christ was crucified on Passover, so why are they an entire month apart?

Passover is observed on the 14th day of the month of Nisan, the first month of the religious year. Jesus was crucified on Passover and rose on the 3rd day, appropriately on the Feast of Firstfruits (the morning after the Sabbath after Passover). This was always on a Sunday, irrespective of the day of the week of Passover. Thus, Christians have traditionally celebrated His resurrection on Sunday.

In the West, most of our major holidays occur conveniently on fixed dates. However unless you are an astronomer, the date of Easter can be much more difficult to determine. That's because its date is set by the lunar calendar. The rules for determining the date of Easter were imposed by Constantine and the Council of Nicaea in AD 325, long before the advent of the Gregorian calendar that is most widely used in the world today. Easter is celebrated on the first Sunday, after the first full moon, after the spring equinox. Therefore, it is held on a Sunday on varying dates between March 22 and April 25.

This year Passover begins at sunset on April 19th, almost a month after Easter, in part because it is a Jewish leap year. During leap years, an entire month is added to the Hebrew calendar. Furthermore, this year Easter comes early, very early. In fact, the next time Easter will fall this early will be in the year 2228 – not for another 220 years. The last time it fell on March 23rd was the year 1913. Easter sometimes falls on March 22nd, a day earlier, however that hasn't happened since 1818 and won't happen again until the year 2285 – in another 277 years. What does that mean? No one alive today has or will ever celebrate it any earlier.

Also:

THE FEAST OF WEEKS -

This week Jews will celebrate Hag Ha Shavuot, also known as the Feast of Weeks or the Feast of Pentecost. The feast is held on the 6th of Sivan on the Hebrew calendar. The date of Shavuot is directly linked to that of Passover. Christian churches in the West celebrated Pentecost on May 11, but Shavuot follows almost a month later because it is a Jewish leap year (you can read more about this in our article on Passover titled A Question of Dates).

The Torah - the five books of Moses - details seven feasts during the Hebrew calendar. The first three feasts are in the spring, in the month of Nisan: Passover, the Feast of Unleavened Bread, and the Feast of First Fruits. These feasts are predictive of the First Coming of Jesus.

In between the spring and fall feasts, fifty days after the Feast of First Fruits, there is the Feast of Pentecost. This feast, celebrated this week, is associated with the Church. The Birth of the Church appears to be a fulfillment of the Feast of Pentecost. (It is interesting to note that this is the only feast in which leavened bread is ordained.)

The last three feasts are in the fall, in the month of Tishri: the Feast of Trumpets, the Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur), and the Feast of Tabernacles. These are associated with His Second Coming.

The timing of the Feast of Pentecost is based on Leviticus 23:16 which points to "the morrow after the seventh sabbath" (fifty days) after the Feast of First Fruits. The Greek word Pentecost means "the fiftieth day." Since the Passover was on the 14th of Nisan, and there were three days to the Red Sea crossing, then 46 days into the wilderness, and three days of Moses' preparation, this is deemed to correspond to the 49 day interval between the Feast of First Fruits (17th of Nisan) and the Feast of Pentecost (6th of Sivan).

The Feast of Pentecost is associated with the birth of Israel and the giving of the Law in Exodus 19. Thus, it is also called the Feast of Revelation. Another name for the Feast of Pentecost is Hag Ha Kazir, The Feast of Harvest, since it is celebrated at the time of the "first harvest."

A study of the Feast of Pentecost is not complete without a review of the Book of Ruth. The Jewish observance of the Feast of Weeks has always included the reading of this particular book. It is provocative to note the interesting parallels relating to the Church. This elegant love story exemplifies the role of the goel, or kinsman-redeemer. As we examine Boaz's role, we notice that he, in many ways, pre-figures our own kinsman-redeemer, Jesus Christ. Through his act of redemption, Boaz returns Naomi (Israel) to her land, and also takes Ruth (a Gentile) as his wife. This suggests a parallel with the Church as the Gentile bride of the kinsman-redeemer.

The Feasts of Israel, set by God, are not only commemorative in a historical context, but are also prophetic. For more information see The Romance of Redemption (a study of the book of Ruth) as well as our briefing titled The Feasts of Israel.

[link to www.karaite-korner.org]

Shavuot


Shavuot (Feast of Weeks/ Pentecost) is the Biblical harvest-festival celebrated 50 days after the Sunday which falls out during Passover. These fifty days are called the Counting of the Omer. The Rabbis incorrectly celebrate Shavuoth on the 6th of Sivan.


What is Shavuot?

Hag Ha-Shavuot, is the second of the three annual Hagim [Pilgrimage-Festivals] in the Hebrew Calendar and is known in English as the Feast of Weeks or Pentecost. Shavuot is also referred to in the Torah as Hag HaKatzir (Feast of Harvest) [Ex 23,16] and Yom HaBikurim (Day of Firstfruits) [Nu 28,26]. In Post-Biblical times Shavuot was believed to be the anniversary of the Revelation at Sinai, but there is no basis for this in the Tanach (Hebrew Bible).1

When is Shavuot?

Unlike all the other Holidays in the Tanach, the Feast of Weeks is not given a fixed calendar date but instead we are commanded to celebrate it at the end of a 50-day period known as "The Counting of the Omer" (Shavuot being the 50th day).2 The commencement of this 50-day period is marked by the bringing of the Omer Offering in the Temple as we read, "And you shall count from the morrow after the Sabbath from the day you bring the Omer [Sheaf] of Waving; seven complete Sabbaths shall you count... until the morrow of the seventh Sabbath you will count fifty days... and you shall proclaim on this very day, it shall be a holy convocation for you " (Lev 23,15-16.21). In late Second Temple times a debate arose between the Boethusians and the Pharisees about whether the "morrow after the Sabbath" [Heb. Mimohorat Ha-Shabbat] refers to the Sunday during Hag HaMatzot [Feast of Unleavened Bread] or the second day of Hag HaMatzot (i.e. the 16th of Nissan). Like the Boethusians and Ancient Israelites before them, the Karaites count the 50 days of the Omer from the Sunday during Hag HaMatzot and consequentially always celebrate Shavuot on a Sunday.


The Rabbanites claim that in the phrase "the morrow after the Sabbath" the "Sabbath" referred to is the first day of Hag HaMatzot. They argue that this day is referred to as a Sabbath because work is forbidden on it. However, the fact is that the Tanach never calls this day a Sabbath3 and if we look at the actual commandment in the Torah, this Rabbanite interpretation is untenable. We are commanded in Lev 23,16 "Until the morrow after the seventh Sabbath shall you count fifty days". While the first day of Hag HaMatzot could theoretically be called a Sabbath there is no way the 49th day of the Omer could be called a Sabbath, since (according to the Rabbanite theory) this day is neither a holiday nor a Sabbath. This being so, in the Rabbanite reckoning the 50th day of the Omer (=Shavuot) would NOT be on "the morrow after the seventh Sabbath" as commanded in Lev 23,16. Instead it would be on the morrow after the 7th Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday or whatever day it happened to fall out after (see chart). The only way for the 49th day of the Omer to be a Sabbath, thereby making the 50th day "the morrow after the Sabbath" as commanded in Lev 23,16, is if the 1st day of the Omer is on a Sunday.


Another passage, which indicates that the first day of the Omer has to be the Sunday during Hag HaMatzot, is Joshua 5,11. This verse reports the events surrounding the cessation of the Manna shortly after the Children of Israel's entered into the Land of Canaan, "And they ate of the produce of the land on the morrow after the Pesach [sacrifice], Matzot and parched [barley] on this very day. And the Manna ceased on the morrow when they ate of the produce of the land...". As may be recalled, the Children of Israel were forbidden to eat of the new crops until the day of the Omer Offering as we read in Lev 23,14 "And bread and parched [barley] and Carmel you will not eat until this very day until you bring the sacrifice of your God; it shall be an eternal statute for your generations in all you habitations." Clearly Josh 5,11, which describes the eating of "Matzot and parched (barley)... on this very day" is a reference to the command in Lev 23,14 "And bread and parched (barley)... you will not eat until this very day." (see diagram).


Thus Joshua 5,11 is reporting that the first Omer Offering in the Land of Israel was brought on the "morrow after the Pesach [Sacrifice]" after which the Children of Israel were permitted to eat of the produce of the land, which they immediately proceeded to do.



When is the "Morrow after the Pessach"?

Was the "Morrow after the Pessach" in Joshua 5,11? It is important to remember that in the Tanach the term Pessach [Passover] always refers to the Passover Sacrifice while the holiday on which the sacrifice is brought is called Hag HaMatzot (Feast of Unleavened Bread). So Joshua 5,11 is talking about the morrow after the Passover Sacrifice. But when was this "morrow"? On the morning of the 15th (i.e. the following morning) or the morning of the 16th. The term Mimoharat, literally on the morrow, means on the following morning. The expression "Morrow after the Sabbath" refers to Sunday morning, because the Sabbath is a 24-hour event ending on Saturday night and Sunday morning is the morning which follows (see diagram). Similarly, the "Morrow after the Pesach [sacrifice]" must be the morning immediately following the Pesach sacrifice. Remembering that the Pessach Sacrifice was brought on the end of the 14th of Nissan at twilight (cf. Ex 12,18; Dt 16,4), the following morning is the morning of the 15th (see diagram).


This deduction is confirmed by Nu 33,3, which relates "And they traveled from Ramses in the first month on the 15th of the month; on the morrow after the Pesach [sacrifice] the Children of Israel went out with a high hand in the eyes of all Egypt." The above passage describes the day of the Exodus both as the 15th of the first month and as the Morrow after the Pesach Sacrifice. This verse conclusively shows that the "Morrow after the Pesach [sacrifice]" is equivalent to the morning of the 15th of Nissan!



Returning to Joshua 5,11, we have seen that in the year Israel entered Canaan the Omer Offering was brought on the "Morrow after the Pesach [Sacrifice]" which we now have established is the morning of the 15th of Nissan. Apparently in that year the 14th of Nissan fell out on a Sabbath and the 15th of Nissan fell out on a Sunday (since the Wave Sheaf offering is always brought on a Sunday). The Rabbanite theory that the Omer Offering is brought on the 16th of Nissan is clearly refuted by the above passage, for in the year that the Children of Israel entered Canaan the Children of Israel brought the Omer Offering on the 15th of Nissan and not the 16th!


The above also answers another seemingly difficult question, namely, does the Omer count begin with the Sunday during Hag HaMatzot or the Sunday after the Sabbath during Hag HaMatzot. Essentially, the question is what part of the phrase "the morrow after the Sabbath" must fall out during Hag HaMatzot, "the morrow" or "the Sabbath"? The only ramification of this semantic quandary is when the 15th of Nissan falls out on a Sunday. In this instance, is the Omer Offering brought on the 15th of Nissan (morrow is during Hag HaMatzot) or the 22nd (Sabbath is during Hag HaMatzot)? The evidence from Josh 5,11 and Nu 33,3 provide a precedent which clarifies this situation since in the year the Children of Israel entered Canaan the 15th of Nissan actually fell out on a Sunday and the Omer Offering was brought on the 15th of Nissan, not the 22nd!

[link to groups.yahoo.com]

Karaite Korner Newsletter #329

Counting the Omer

This Sunday April 27, 2008 begins the fifty day counting of the Omer
which culminates with Shavuot on June 15. The counting of the Omer can
be followed using the convenient chart at:
[link to www.karaite-korner.org]

More information on the Feast of Shavuot is available at:
[link to www.karaite-korner.org]

Nehemia Gordon
Jerusalem, Israel

[link to www.endtimespost.org]

The prophetic significance of 2008?
Jim Bramlett
Feb 20, 2008

Dear friends:

Last night I got a telephone call from fellow watchman Dr. Armando Pardil lo of New Mexico. Armando pointed out to me that a Five Doves post in January pointed to the same date as another post by a different person in February, both totally independent and using a totally different method and assumption. Both pointed to the Day of Atonement, October 8-9, 2008. Here they are:

Post # 1. Armando reminded me that fellow watchman and mutual friend Dr. William Zambrano of Florida had previously called this one to our attention. On January 9, Ted Porter posted a reply to "TJ's" "A Can't Miss Calculation" at [link to www.fivedove] s.com/letters/ jan2008/tedp19- 3.htm, with links from "TJ." It showed how exactly 49 Jewish (360-day) years from the day Israel captured the Temple Mount on June 7, 1967 = 49 X 360 = 17640 days, which takes one to September 22, 23, 2015, the Day of Atonement. Now, go back 7 years from the Day of Atonement in 2015 and you arrive at the Day of Atonement in 2008, October 9. Could this be the beginning of the final seven years?

The Miracle Six-Day War in 1967 in Israel and specifically June 7, 1967 are widely considered to be when the end-time countdown began. That is when the fig tree, Israel, put forth its leaves, and Jesus said when we see this happen we know "He is near, right at the door," and "this generation" (the generation that sees this) will not pass away until all comes to pass (Matthew 24:32-34).

If June 7, 1967 was such a historic prophetic marker, then the date derived by adding seven weeks of years (49 years) to it seems profoundly significant.

Post # 2. On February 15, 2005, Lauren Berns posted a message at [link to www.fivedove] s.com/letters/ feb2008/lauren21 5.htm in which she traces the 120 Jubilees from Adam as allo tted to man and with a link ( [link to www.christia] n-forum.net/ index.php? showtopic= 16401) reveals an obscure prophecy by Ezekiel recorded in the Jewish Talmud (Sanh. 97b), all of which also point to the Day of Atonement, October 9, 2008. I find this date agreement with the previously described message remarkable.

Lauren's end-time scenario is unconventional and difficult for me to understand so far, but her arrival at that specific date is most intriguing.

I do not comprehend what all this may mean. One possibility is that October 9, 2008 may begin the final seven years, or Tribulation, and/or 70th week of Daniel. If that is true, the rapture could be anytime before that, such as in the Spring 2008, as many believe. I am not dogmatically saying that and just mentioning it as a possibility, so save your ammo and use it against the devil!

Re gardless of how things may play out, the above numbers plus many other world and Middle East factors definitely indicate we are in the final countdown.

So what does Jesus say to do? "When these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near" (Luke 21:28, NKJV).

"You, brothers, are not in darkness so that this Day should surprise you like a thief" (1 Thessalonians 5:4, NIV).

Jim

[link to www.fivedoves.com]

Dawn Olin (4 Jan 2008)
"Daniel's Prophecy"
Dear Doves;

I was watching a program on "Prophecy in the News" (www.prophecyinthenews.com), where J.R. Church and Gary Stearman were discussing Daniel Ch. 9 and 12, regarding the law of the "shevuim". (Please forgive me in advance if someone is more educated on this subject than I am.) The shevuim is a particular set of seven years ending in a sabbatical year (we are currently in the last year of a Jewish sabbatical cycle). These 'set of sevens" are still recognized as histrorical markers today and can be traced all the way back to the order to rebuild Jerusalem and the first appearance of the Messiah. Contrary to what we have commonly thought, the rapture does not initiate the tribulation. The tribulation, or Daniel's 70th week, begins when "the covenant is confirmed by many" Daniel Ch 9:27: "The ruler will make a treaty with the people for one set of sevens..." Therefore, the beginning of the seven years, or week, must begin at the onset of the shevuim and end on a sabbatical year. The next "week" or shevuim begins Sept. /Oct. this 2008.

Can the "covenant confirmed by many", and the beginning of the tribulation begin anytime? No! According to Daniel's prophecy given by the angel Gabriel, it will start at the beginning of a "week", or at the beginning of these specific set of seven years called the shevuim. When I heard this, (and I have read Daniel's prophecy and studied it many times), it made perfect sense! While we do not know for sure when the rapture will happen, we do know that the tribulation will begin at the end of a jubilee year. I do not know if this is the year, but Rosh Hashana 2008 begins a new week and the players seem to be in place.

Keep looking up!

P.S. You can read the entire article about the shevuim on the above listed website.

[link to www.fivedoves.com]

TJ (7 Jan 2008)
"A cant miss Calculation Part 2"

7th Sabatical cycle since 1966 ends on Tishrei 5776 (49 years)

The first Sabbatical cycle of this began in 1966 (5727) and was the Jewish year of the six day war. From 5727 to 5776 is 7 X 7 = 49 years it terminates on Tishri 2015. The final sabbatical cycle of this starts on September 30, 2008 (5769) and ends September 14, 2015 ----- ten days later is Day of Atonement September 23, 2015.

Also seperately from that calculation is this one below

49 X 360 = 17640

June 7, 1967 to September 22, 23, 2015 Day of Atonement = 17640 Days

[link to www.fivedoves.com]

TJ (7 Jan 2008)
"A Must Read Calculation 2008-2015"

I calculated seven year timeframes from the metatonic cycle with 86 moons, according to Israels Sabbatical Cycle from the Jewish years 5706 to 5839 and the only seven year span that matched up with the Israel Sabbatical and had the 86 moons, 2550 day requirements was the upcoming Israel Sabbatical in 5769. It was the only one that matched in regards to Israel Sabbatical cycle.


This year might be the Tribulation 2008 -2015. The Israelis and Arabs want to end the conflict by the end of the year.

Hope theres no errors on here.


1. (5706) Tishrei 1945 to (5713) Tishrei 1952 = 87 moons (Sabbath Year 5712)

2. (5713) Tishrei 1952 to (5720) Tishrei 1959 = 87 moons (Sabbath Year 5719)

3. (5720) Tishrei 1959 to (5727) Tishrei 1966 = 86 moons ( 2549 Days ) to Day of Atonement (66) (Sabbath Year (5726)

4. (5727) Tishrei 1966 to (5734) Tishrei 1973 = 87 moons (Sabbath Year 5733)

5. (5734) Tishrei 1973 to (5741) Tishrei 1980 = 86 moons ( 2551 Days ) to Day of Atonement (80) (Sabbath Year 5740)

6. (5741) Tishrei 1980 to (5748) Tishrei 1987 = 87 moons (Sabbath Year 5747)

7. (5748) Tishrei 1987 to (5755) Tishrei 1994 = 86 moons ( 2549 Days ) to Day of Atonement (94) (Sabbath Year 5754)

8. (5755) Tishrei 1994 to (5762) Tishrei 2001 = 87 moons (Sabbath Year 5761)

9. (5762) Tishrei 2001 to (5769) Tishrei 2008 = 87 moons (Sabbath Year 5768)

10. (5769) Tishrei 2008 to (5776) Tishrei 2015 = 86 moons ( 2550 Days ) to Day of Atonement (015) 7th Sabatical cycle since 1966 ends on Tishrei 5776 (49 years) (Sabbath Year 5775)

11. (5776) Tishrei 2015 to (5783) Tishrei 2022 = 87 moons (Sabbath Year 5782)

12. (5783) Tishrei 2022 to ( 5790) Tishrei 2029 = 86 moons ( 2551 Days ) to Day of Atonement (029) (Sabbath Year 5789)

13. (5790) Tishrei 2029 to (5797) Tishrei 2036 = 87 moons (Sabbath Year 5796)

14. (5797) Tishrei 2036 to (5804) Tishrei 2043 = 87 moons (Sabbath Year 5803)

15. (5804) Tishrei 2043 to (5811) Tishrei 2050 = 86 moons to ( 2549 Days) Day of Atonement (50) (Sabbath Year 5810)

16. (5811) Tishrei 2050 to ( 5818) Tishrei 2057 = 87 moons (Sabbath Year 5817)

17. (5818) Tishrei 2057 to ( 5825) Tishrei 2064 = 86 moons to (2549 Days) Day of Atonement (64) (Sabbath Year 5824)

18. (5825) Tishrei 2064 to (5832) Tishrei 2071 = 87 moons (Sabbath Year 5824)

19. (5832) Tishrei 2071 to (5839) Tishrei 2078 = 86 moons to (2551 Days) Day of Atonement (078) (Sabbath Year 5831)

[edit] The Day of Atonement and Eschatology

Some Christians believe that the Day of Atonement, the sixth holiday on the Hebrew calendar, will come into its ultimate New Covenant fulfilment on a climactic day in future history. Not only will it wrap up affairs between God and His covenant people for the year, the sabbatical year, and the 50 year Jubilee cycle, but this future day of awe will be a climactic Day of Atonement that will come on the last day of this age and on the eve of the Last judgement.

Bible scholars believe that the next feast to be fulfilled, the Feast of Trumpets, which is Rosh Hashanah or the Jewish New Year, will be the epic peace treaty of Daniel 9:27. In this seven year covenant the sovereign land of Israel will be divided up and ceded to a coming global peacemaker for a period of seven years. This seven year covenant, which promises peace to the Middle East, is the event which initiates the 70th Week of Daniel, the final seven years of this age.

The reason they believe this to be so is that the timespan encompassing the Feast of Trumpets and the Day of Atonement when they are seven years apart and when they comprise 86 moons on the metatonic cycle, (and not 87 moons), is 2550 days.

86 moons = 86 x 29.530589 days + 10 days = 2550 days (inclusive). This is the timespan that begins on Tishrei 1 in year X and extends out seven years to Tishrei 10 on year X + 7.

2550 days is a very significant time period. This is precisely the timespan of the 70th week of Daniel along with the 30 day extension which goes out beyond the 1260 day second half of the Prophecy of Seventy Weeks to reach the 1290 days we see prophesied by Daniel. (Dan.12:11). 1260 days + 1290 days = 2550 days exactly.

This is quite remarkable. The timespan of Daniel's 70th Week with its 30 day extension, appears to be marked out precisely by the Feast of Trumpets and the Day of Atonement seven years later. This is for those seven year Tishrei to Tishrei timespans that see 86 and not 87 moons. This a very significant discovery. It is not likely to be a coincidence.

The calculations of these feast to feast timespans across 86 moons and seven years are uncomplicated and easily verifiable. They can be confirmed quite readily using the new moon lunar data from the United States Naval Observatory or by using the Hebrew Calendar Converter available online at Hebcal.com.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

[link to endtimepilgrim.org]

Wow,,ok I guess what i should do, is see if you are coming back.

Because, i was hoping to get some answers and see which of us is in error, and I for one, am always willing to disscuss, and come to the truth.

You wrote ( If we base our dates and times according to Jerusalem, since that is how God did it,,, )


See right here at the start, I find this amazing, there is no proof at all of that, unless i be wrong.

The City Jerusalem, is mentioned in the Book of Revelations, as the City where our Lord was crucified. Which is spiritually called Sodom and Egypt. Noe does that sound like a what you thought?


I will check back and see if you are as open as the men of Borea, the noble men..

Revelation 11
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

The scripture, to back up, what I said, as I will always do.

For those who, love God know and love His Word.. And we should always go by, " AS IT IS WRITTEN "..

JESUS IS CALLED THE WORD OF GOD.
Found here > REV. 19:12-14

What do you get when you cross false doctrine with long winded prognostication?.....dissapointment!

thanks OP!! we're watching!!

That's a nice piece of work you put there, I know Jesus followed all the Jewish traditions especially Yom Kippur, I hope you don’t forget to give worship once a year to the Fallen angel Azazel like Jesus did with a little goat.

Shavu'ot will occur on the following days of the Gregorian calendar:

* Jewish Year 5768: sunset June 8, 2008 - nightfall June 10, 2008
* Jewish Year 5769: sunset May 28, 2009 - nightfall May 30, 2009
* Jewish Year 5770: sunset May 18, 2010 - nightfall May 20, 2010
* Jewish Year 5771: sunset June 7, 2011 - nightfall June 9, 2011
* Jewish Year 5772: sunset May 26, 2012 - nightfall May 28, 2012

folks... according to this, we're just STARTING the festival. it should be about 7pm jerusalem time. today!

I was deeply into sin last November when my mom went into the hospital and my wife wanted a divorce.

I have been a fair weather Christian since 1972 - but never steadfast or faithful.

I got the wake up call with these life problems and thought what year is this?

when the rapture didn't happen in 1981 I fell away.

I convinced myself that rather than 1948 + 40 it must be 1967 + 40.

I thought my God it's 2007 what have I been doing I need to get right with God oh man! the rapture should have been in 2000 where was I what was I thinking?

on December 13 I took one day for God and haven't been the same.

my mom is healed my marriage is restored.

my Godly sorrow led to repentance which led to zeal.

God never stopped blessing me even while I slid. this convicted me to repent - life was good even when I did evil

God is faithful even when I'm not He cannot contradict Himself.

since then it's Bible prayer fellowship Bible prayer fellowship.

I'm not so focussed on eschatology but still I watch.

somewhere out there is the final person to be saved in this dispensation.

then things will really start happening and I think so fast our heads will spin

I want to be ready no matter how events come to pass.

pretrib midtrib posttrib it doesn't matter my calling is the same

I am to bear much fruit. repent and preach the Gospel in season outof season

and speak the truth boldly in love!

.

Now this is a good thread discussing some real possibilities and taking the matter sincerely and seriously.

Because the word "rapture" is not used in the Bible in no way means there will be no rapture. That is not logical.

To presume so conclusively that there will not be
is every bit as incorrect as "Scribe" presume conclusively when it will be.

Dude! Better check out the post Margaret Macdonald is going to Kill millions of Christians!!! If you have eyes to see and ears to hear!

amen

Pentecost was on the Sabbath, yesterday.

On who's authority?
That is the point.

yes it is good. the word rapture is a latin translation of the greek Harpazo. "to snatch away"

watch this vid on the feasts and signs in the sun an moon

scroll down for it. real informative;

5/25/2008 Prophecy Update: Signs in the Heavens P1

[link to harvestreno.org]