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Revelation 4 - 24 Elders are NOT Pre-Trib Rapture Christians

 
Anonymous Coward
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01/08/2024 08:53 AM
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Revelation 4 - 24 Elders are NOT Pre-Trib Rapture Christians
Revelation 4 - 24 Elders are NOT Pre-Trib Rapture Christians

This theory is just one of the Darby-Scofield Assumptions.

It also reeks of Replacement Theololgy.

Neither position has any scriptural support.

...

No scripture states that the Elders of Revelation 4 had received "rewards" from Jesus, nor that they had even been judged by Him.

I'd wager that they are grandfathered in at the least.

Moses appeared at the Transfiguration with Jesus and Elijah. Neither of the 2 had stood before the Judgment Seat of Christ to be judged.

So...how is that?

Elders? How about some of these?

Enoch, Joshua, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph,
Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel..

God's original Chosen people.

.

Believers per scripture are removed before the Tribulation period begins. Much scripture attests to this fact for example the 24 elders in heaven around the throne who have received their crowns meaning they’ve stood before the Judgment Seat of Christ before the first seal is opened.
 Quoting: Seek^


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Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/08/2024 08:54 AM
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Re: Revelation 4 - 24 Elders are NOT Pre-Trib Rapture Christians
Or the 24 elders representing the church who are in heaven before the first seal is opened meaning they’ve been Raptured before the Tribulation period begins, stood before the Judgment Seat of Christ and received their rewards. This yet another proof the church is removed before divine judgment begins on earth.
 Quoting: Seek^

Your "explanation" has NO scriptural support.

Show us ONE verse that proves the 24 elders are from the so-called raptured church.

You can't. NO scripture supports that.

And don't forget...many of the early church fathers were anitsemitic - and they hated Messianics.

Even Martin Luther.

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Last but not least, the Elders in Revelation 4 are worshipping the Father as Creator.

Show us ONE Christian leader that has done that publically over the centuries.

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Thread: Father God is Worshipped as Creator - Revelation 4:8-11 / Creation Bible Study

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Anonymous Coward
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01/08/2024 09:02 AM
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Re: Revelation 4 - 24 Elders are NOT Pre-Trib Rapture Christians
As-salamu alaykum

PRAISE ALLAH

Repent from the evils of your false religion and rise as a soldier for Allah!!!!!!
Anonymous Coward
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01/08/2024 09:04 AM
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Re: Revelation 4 - 24 Elders are NOT Pre-Trib Rapture Christians
As-salamu alaykum

PRAISE ALLAH

Repent from the evils of your false religion and rise as a soldier for Allah!!!!!!

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 40543735



Salami, salami, B-low me
Anonymous Coward
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01/10/2024 04:23 AM
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Re: Revelation 4 - 24 Elders are NOT Pre-Trib Rapture Christians

the twenty-four elders fall down before Him who sits on the throne and worship Him who lives forever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying:

“You are worthy, O Lord,
To receive glory and honor and power;
For You created all things,
And by Your will they exist and were created.”

The Lamb Takes the Scroll

And I saw in the right hand of Him who sat on the throne a scroll written inside and on the back, sealed with seven seals. Then I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, “Who is worthy to open the scroll and to loose its seals?” And no one in heaven or on the earth or under the earth was able to open the scroll, or to look at it.

Revelation 4:10, 5:1-3

Yes, the presence of the 24 elders in Revelation 4 and 5 does seem to suggest that there is a group of believers who have been gathered to heaven before the judgment begins on earth.
 Quoting: Seek^

I see no marker of representation that indicates the 24 Elders are the Church.

Rather, in Rev 5:7,10 the 24 Elders say, 'you ransomed people and have made them .. and they'

This is third person and distinguishes the 24 Elders FROM the Church.

If the 24 Elders represented the Church there would be some maker of representation there.
There isn't.
 Quoting: Lago

Revelation 4 and 5 say nothing about the church nor the body of Christ being represented in the Elders.

John is witnessing the event, and neither he nor none of the other Apostles are part of the Elders.

That's significant.

And as I stated earlier, virtually all of the early church fathers were antiSemitic, and even hated Messianics.

.

What do you suppose happened to the saints that were Resurrected when Christ died?

Matthew 27

50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.


.

And these phrases from scripture come to mind...

I've been sent to Israel first

Salvation is of the Jews

Christians are graffed into Israel


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Anonymous Coward
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01/13/2024 09:54 AM
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Re: Revelation 4 - 24 Elders are NOT Pre-Trib Rapture Christians
Revelation 4 and 5 say nothing about the church nor the body of Christ being represented in the Elders.

John is witnessing the event, and neither he nor none of the other Apostles are part of the Elders.

That's significant.

And as I stated earlier, virtually all of the early church fathers were antiSemitic, and even hated Messianics.

.

What do you suppose happened to the saints that were Resurrected when Christ died?

Matthew 27

50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.


.

And these phrases from scripture come to mind...

I've been sent to Israel first

Salvation is of the Jews

Christians are graffed into Israel


.
Anonymous Coward
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02/06/2024 09:35 AM
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Re: Revelation 4 - 24 Elders are NOT Pre-Trib Rapture Christians
The 24 elders are already in heaven.

Revelation Chapter 19

1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

3 And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.

24 elders are before.

Those who come after are those who are gathered after the tribulation, first the dead, then those who remain alive.

This is Jesus returning for His other flock. They too are given white robes of fine linen.


God's saints who endure the end times, are after.

Revelation Chapter 19

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.
 Quoting: Osmium76





GLP