The Supreme Court Goes to WAR with the US and how their decision will cause more Americans to be killed. | |
PACNWguy (OP) User ID: 366950 United States 06/17/2008 12:30 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Supreme Court Goes to WAR with the US and how their decision will cause more Americans to be killed. 'It Will Almost Certainly Cause More Americans to Be Killed' By Joel J. Sprayregen The Supreme Court's 5-4 ruling last week means that terrorism detainees captured overseas have the same rights as U.S. citizens facing shoplifting trials at home. This unprecedented expansion of habeas was not a victory, as liberal media smirked, over the President. It was a judicial nullification of procedures carefulyy crafted by both elected branches of Government of procedures carefully tailored to allow review of detentions while remaining mindful of the terrorist threat. The smallest of majorities is disregarding judicial history and pretending we live in a world where captured deadly enemies can be granted an advantage, without it affecting the likelihood of victory. I can't say it better than Justice Scalia: “America is at war with radical Islamists. The enemy began by killing Americans abroad: 241 at the Marine barracks in Lebanon, 19 at the Khobar Towers in Dhahran, 224 at our embassies in Dar es Salaam and Nairobi, and 17 on the USS Cole. On September 11, 2001, the enemy brought the battle to American soil, killing 2,749 at the Twin Towers in New York City, 184 at the Pentagon and 10 in Pennsylvania… It has threatened further attacks against our homeland; one need only walk about buttressed and barricaded Washington, or board a plane, to know the threat is serious… Last week, 13 of our countrymen in arms were killed.” Scalia, the smartest justice, alone foresaw that the Special Counsel Law would lead to the embarrassment of the Clinton impeachment proceedings. In his dissent last Friday, he addressed a far more serious issue: Congress Establishes Procedures; the Court Defines the Military’s Mission In its 2004 Hamdi decision, the Court invited Congress to establish procedures for detainees. Laws, including the 2005 Detainee Treatment Act (DTA), provide hearings on legality of detention before a Combatant Status Review Tribunal (CSRT), followed by review in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia. A bi-partisan Congress (by 65 to 34 in the Senate) mandated that the 270 Guantanamo detainees are not free to avoid these procedures by filing habeas petitions in whatever federal district court they choose. Centralizing court review of life-and-death cases to achieve consistency of rulings in one Appeals Court -- rather than letting leftist lawyers seek out friendly habeas judges in 50 states before a CSRT could review the evidence -- was the heart of the law. The Court invalidated the law because it found "…no credible arguments that the military mission would be compromised if habeas courts had jurisdiction to hear detainees' claims." It is difficult to fault Scalia's riposte: "What competence does the Court have to second-guess the judgment of Congress and President on such a point?" Scalia detailed how prisoners released from Guantanamo -- because they were not considered combatants -- had returned to murder Americans and our allies. Scalia is foreseeably correct in concluding that the decision "will almost certainly cause more Americans to be killed." The Court is basing its decision -- disregarding two centuries of decisions holding that habeas is unavailable to aliens captured abroad -- on the fact that Gitmo is "functionally" under U.S. control. But so are U.S. bases in Afghanistan and Iraq. Terrorists captured there are now invited immediately to compel our military to reveal its basis for detentions; this is the meaning of habeas. It gets worse. Justice Kennedy explained in invalidating the DTA -- which provides wider access to Government evidence than the Geneva Convention – that "the detainee’s ability to rebut the Government's evidence is limited by the circumstances of his confinement and his lack of counsel at this stage." If you do not comprehend that the ACLU and its fellow revelers are preparing petitions in blank to seek -- on behalf of every terrorist captured overseas -- to compel the Government immediately to disclose its evidence, then you understand nothing. Chief Justice Roberts pointed out in his dissent what the Court is opening the door to: "free access to classified information ignores the risk the prisoner may convey what he learns to parties hostile to this country, with deadly consequences for those who helped apprehend the detainee." Roberts noted that our troops are not equipped to handle subpoenas on the battlefield. Information given to defense lawyers in the first World Trade Towers trial on a restricted basis quickly appeared on al-Jazeera. The alleged shoplifter at a suburban mall is entitled to see the prosecution's file because she needs it to defend herself. The terrorist wants his file so he can arrange to slit the throats of intelligence operatives and informants. The Court's decision undermines that result. Our country is doing better against terrorists than against shoplifters: Commentators of varied persuasions are observing that the Islamists have been deterred form launching a second terror strike against our home front. Jackson’s Warning: Don’t Convert the Bill of Rights into a Suicide Pact The late Justice Robert H. Jackson -- who grew up in Frewsburg and lawyered in Jamestown -- exemplified the patriotic canniness found in rural New York since the days of Fort Ticonderoga. His worldview was shaped by experience as Chief War Crimes Prosecutor at Nuremburg. In a 1950 opinion -- tossed into the dustbin of history last week -- Jackson denied habeas to a Nazi prisoner because there had been "no instance where a court has issued habeas corpus to an alien enemy who...has never been within its territorial jurisdiction." Ponder Jackson's admonition in a free speech case: "If the Court does not temper its doctrinaire logic with a little practical wisdom, it will convert the Bill of Rights into a suicide pact." Joel Sprayregen was General Counsel of the Illinois ACLU until the late 1960s. Today, dedicates his pro bono time to think tanks protecting our national security. OBAMA - THE FASTEST FAILED PRESIDENT IN AMERICAN HISTORY "I inherated and I am Great!" |
Wul User ID: 453499 United Kingdom 06/17/2008 12:31 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Supreme Court Goes to WAR with the US and how their decision will cause more Americans to be killed. Just try them in an official court where they committed their crimes! No, wait a minute? They were kidnapped at gunpoint and tortured to get confessions to crimes they may not have committed. Fascist... |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 145417 United States 06/17/2008 12:32 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 327403 United States 06/17/2008 12:33 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Supreme Court Goes to WAR with the US and how their decision will cause more Americans to be killed. Bloody hell. How do you plan to prove or disprove that someone is guilty of planning or committing "terrorist" acts if you do not hold a trial for them????? Answer, Pacnfudge... Because as I see it, those kind of prisoners are nothing more than concentration camps rather similar to the ones that Hitler was using. |
Sinanju User ID: 449318 United States 06/17/2008 12:37 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Supreme Court Goes to WAR with the US and how their decision will cause more Americans to be killed. Bloody hell. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 327403How do you plan to prove or disprove that someone is guilty of planning or committing "terrorist" acts if you do not hold a trial for them????? Answer, Pacnfudge... Because as I see it, those kind of prisoners are nothing more than concentration camps rather similar to the ones that Hitler was using. >>Similar to the concentration camps? Are you fucking serious? What a bunch of mealy mouthed pansies you fucking morons are! |
Sinanju User ID: 449318 United States 06/17/2008 12:38 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Supreme Court Goes to WAR with the US and how their decision will cause more Americans to be killed. "But however hard he lobbies the gatekeepers of memory, he will surely be judged the worst president the United States has ever had." >>That was said about Lincoln and Washington as well.. how did that turn out for them? You historical perspective is calling... it misses you! |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 453447 United States 06/17/2008 12:39 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 394778 United States 06/17/2008 12:40 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Supreme Court Goes to WAR with the US and how their decision will cause more Americans to be killed. How do you plan to prove or disprove that someone is guilty of planning or committing "terrorist" acts if you do not hold a trial for them????? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 327403That's the essential problem that PACNazi can't seem to wrap his little mind around. By saying "The terrorists will be given the same rights as a US citizen accused of shoplifting", you can see the problem. It assumes that they are terrorists before any sort of trial. The PACNazi needs to pick up some Kafka and read it. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 5174 United States 06/17/2008 12:42 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Supreme Court Goes to WAR with the US and how their decision will cause more Americans to be killed. IF GUYS LIKE YOO ARE SO UNHAPPY WITH THE US CONSTITUTION AND THE RIGHTS OF THE CITIZENRY TO LIVE IN A NATION OF LAWS, WHY DON'T THEY POOL ALL THEIR PROFITS FROM KBR, HALLIBURTON AND EXXON AND BUY THEIR OWN DAMN COUNTRY AND DO WHATEVER THEY WANT? IT'S CALLED HABEUS CORPUS, YOU UNGRATEFUL GOOK. LOOK IT UP. |
Sinanju User ID: 449318 United States 06/17/2008 12:42 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Supreme Court Goes to WAR with the US and how their decision will cause more Americans to be killed. The PACNazi needs to pick up some Kafka and read it." >>The rights of US citizens should be reserved for US citizens. Try them if you like.. but use their own laws or the laws of the countries they were grabbed in... then we can bury them to their necks and stone them on TV. |
PACNWguy (OP) User ID: 366950 United States 06/17/2008 12:42 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Supreme Court Goes to WAR with the US and how their decision will cause more Americans to be killed. Roberts noted that "our troops are not equipped to handle subpoenas on the battlefield". "Dont turn the bill of rights into a suicide pact." Great quotes. OBAMA - THE FASTEST FAILED PRESIDENT IN AMERICAN HISTORY "I inherated and I am Great!" |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 394778 United States 06/17/2008 12:50 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Supreme Court Goes to WAR with the US and how their decision will cause more Americans to be killed. Roberts noted that "our troops are not equipped to handle subpoenas on the battlefield". Quoting: PACNWguy"Dont turn the bill of rights into a suicide pact." Great quotes. Do you know of any of our troops handling subpoenas on the battlefield, Mr. Fascist? No. These troops did their job. They captured the enemy. The enemy has been whisked away many thousands of miles away to a camp where they've been in legal limbo for nearly 6 years. Your Bill of Rights quote is telling. You wouldn't fight to keep them sacred. Indeed, you obviously believe they are not rights at all. They're just statements that can be discarded from some worthless piece of paper, right? You sicken me. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 453511 United States 06/17/2008 12:52 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 394778 United States 06/17/2008 12:53 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Supreme Court Goes to WAR with the US and how their decision will cause more Americans to be killed. >>The rights of US citizens should be reserved for US citizens. Try them if you like.. but use their own laws or the laws of the countries they were grabbed in... then we can bury them to their necks and stone them on TV. Quoting: Sinanju 449318The US Constitution doesn't limit the government's actions only with regard to Citizens. Indeed, when the Constitution wants to limit things only to Citizens, it specifically says as much. And it says no such thing with regard to habeas corpus. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 445699 United States 06/17/2008 12:56 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Supreme Court Goes to WAR with the US and how their decision will cause more Americans to be killed. Fudge packer makes 250,000 a year and was bitching about having to pay higher taxes because of it. Hell he was bitching about the fact that he can't live off of 250,000 a year. He is a true dyed in the blue selfish, snotty, wannabe rich guy. Just to put things in perspective here as long as it doesn't affect his bottom line he could care less. He is also brainwashed and believes that Emmanuel Goldstein is over there waiting to kill us. WE know where the real terrorists have been for the last 8 years. |
LouisWinthorpeIII User ID: 384893 United States 06/17/2008 12:57 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Supreme Court Goes to WAR with the US and how their decision will cause more Americans to be killed. wow your ignorance of the constitution is staggering. Now you are telling me you wouldn’t have extended any rights for the NAZI’s your government brought over in the 1940’s? LOL give me a break. "I don't know which was scarier...the speech...or the Congress cheering it. He evoked Lincoln. Whenever a President is going to get us into serious trouble...they always use Lincoln." -2010 |
loosecannon User ID: 453513 United States 06/17/2008 12:58 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Supreme Court Goes to WAR with the US and how their decision will cause more Americans to be killed. your article was hugely intellectually dishonest. It failed to mention that the state of "war" we presently assume is one intended to be perpetual. It also failed to account for the fact that it actually is long established precedent to afford habeas corpus to people within the jurisdiction of US territories. It also failed to mention that the detaineees are being denied POW status which is requisite US law. It also failed to mention that article 9 expressly forbids congress to legislate denial of habeas corpus except in cases of invasion or rebellion. |
Sinanju User ID: 449318 United States 06/17/2008 01:07 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Supreme Court Goes to WAR with the US and how their decision will cause more Americans to be killed. "The US Constitution doesn't limit the government's actions only with regard to Citizens. Indeed, when the Constitution wants to limit things only to Citizens, it specifically says as much. And it says no such thing with regard to habeas corpus." >>The tenth amendment is ignored daily. But when it comes to the 'rights' of scumbag foreign nationals... you guys LOVE to trot out Habeas Corpus. Ain't that funny! You want to argue for enforcing the constitution and bill of rights.. start with the tenth and we can work from there. But then, you couldn't advocate killing unborn children... oh, the dilemma you must face! |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 453511 United States 06/17/2008 01:07 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Supreme Court Goes to WAR with the US and how their decision will cause more Americans to be killed. This is why Bush thought he had power to erase(suspend) Habeas corpus... Kinda like Packy wished that there was no god damned piece of paper to follow, just like they all wish. It also failed to mention that article 9 expressly forbids congress to legislate denial of habeas corpus except in cases of invasion or rebellion. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 453482 Canada 06/17/2008 01:10 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 453511 United States 06/17/2008 01:13 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Supreme Court Goes to WAR with the US and how their decision will cause more Americans to be killed. The price of freedom is heavy Pack. we are going to pay for our freedom through death of part of ourselves. There is no getting away from it. That has been going on since the time of the founding of this country, so what is the great concern NOW??? Freedom costs lives! |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 394778 United States 06/17/2008 01:19 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Supreme Court Goes to WAR with the US and how their decision will cause more Americans to be killed. You want to argue for enforcing the constitution and bill of rights.. start with the tenth and we can work from there. But then, you couldn't advocate killing unborn children... oh, the dilemma you must face! Quoting: Sinanju 449318I don't advocate killing unborn children. I am 100% anti-abortion, even in cases of rape and incest -- as I can't see the logic in killing a child for the crimes of its father. So stick that in your pipe and smoke it. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 447146 United States 06/17/2008 01:22 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 453482 Canada 06/17/2008 01:22 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 453482 Canada 06/17/2008 01:23 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 413355 United States 06/17/2008 01:25 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 453511 United States 06/17/2008 01:28 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Supreme Court Goes to WAR with the US and how their decision will cause more Americans to be killed. Truth is that Packy would find out rather quickly why we do have or want a dictator in this country, something he roots on a daily basis. is that the SAME JOHN YOO who says the president CAN TORTURE CHILDREN if he feels the need? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 453482Yep, that's the same piece of scum. thought so thanks |
Sinanju User ID: 449318 United States 06/17/2008 01:29 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Supreme Court Goes to WAR with the US and how their decision will cause more Americans to be killed. "I don't advocate killing unborn children. I am 100% anti-abortion, even in cases of rape and incest -- as I can't see the logic in killing a child for the crimes of its father. So stick that in your pipe and smoke it." >>So, I take it that you are an advocate for the tenth amendment? Even in the cases of southern segregation? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 453482 Canada 06/17/2008 01:31 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: The Supreme Court Goes to WAR with the US and how their decision will cause more Americans to be killed. "I don't advocate killing unborn children. I am 100% anti-abortion, even in cases of rape and incest -- as I can't see the logic in killing a child for the crimes of its father. Quoting: Sinanju 449318So stick that in your pipe and smoke it." >>So, I take it that you are an advocate for the tenth amendment? Even in the cases of southern segregation? I take it that you are an advocate of crushing the testicles of a small cildZ? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 453482 Canada 06/17/2008 01:32 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |