Jerusalem: Literal or Symbolic?

symbolic.

Symbolic. Especially considering the verse in Revelation 11 saying "And their dead bodies will lie in the street of the great city which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified". I think it's a safe bet that we should interpret these kinds of things in light of what they represent as defined throughout scripture.

I've been reading an online book that has helped clear up a lot for me regarding types and symbols. I definitely recommend it. . .

[link to www.unleavenedbreadministries.org]

Genesis talks about the promised land in the middle east. Everything between the Nile & Euphrates.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Thanks. I'll check that link out.

Spiritual symbols and prophetic interpretations of those symbols have fascinated me for quite some time. Mainly because a spiritual symbol can have more than one meaning, and thus interpretations. The correct interpretation must be given to the Holy Spirit that inspired that word to; with the believer's help, give revelation as revealed through the spirit rather than dependence upon the mental abilities of the scholarly variety. "The natural man receives not the things that are of God for they are spiritually discerned."

A symbol can have a literal meaning, and a metaphoric meaning as well because it is "multi-dimensional" since it is spiritual. Long story short, Jerusalem is actually both. literal and symbolic. And it will depend on it's context by which it was written to determine it's ultimate worth or value.

What else could it have been at that time?

they knew not of the north american continent.

The New Jerusalem is being born now in Niagara Falls
[link to www.alphaomeganewjerusalem.com]

The Christian Church is being completely transformed and you are being given your new spiritual bodies.Check it out. Once you are born again New Jerusalem will be inside you wherever you are but you can visit the physical capitol anytime.

Symbolic.As is Israel and seed. All symbolic for God's people/church/bride, who are now the Christians. There is no more gentile or Jew.-Gal.3:28

just as New Salem is not the same as Salem...New Jerusalem is not the same as the old.

That was a good question!

background..

In The Bible, the New Jerusalem (also called the tabernacle of God, holy city, city of God, celestial city, and heavenly Jerusalem, as well as Jerusalem above and Zion), is a literal (or figurative, depending upon the writer's viewpoint) city that is a completely new dwelling for the Saints. Others may believe that it is a physical reconstruction, spiritual restoration, or divine recreation of the city of Jerusalem. Such a renewal of Jerusalem, if a reconstruction, is an important theme in Judaism, Christianity, and the Bahá'í Faith. As a prominent feature of the Book of Revelation, the New Jerusalem holds an important place in Christian eschatology and Christian theology. The New Jerusalem has also influenced Christian philosophy and Christian mysticism.

All of the earths beliefs and traditions, based upon biblical scripture and other writings in the Jewish and Christian religions, such as fundamentalist Protestantism, Orthodox Christianity, and Orthodox Judaism, expect the literal renewal of Jerusalem to some day take place at the Temple Mount in accordance with various biblical prophecies. Dispensationalists believe in a literal New Jerusalem coming down from God out of Heaven, which will be an entirely new city of incredible dimensions. Still other sects, such as, various Protestant denominations, Mormonism, and modernist branches of Christianity and reform Judaism, view the New Jerusalem as figurative, or believe that such a renewal may have already taken place, or that it will take place at some other location besides the Temple Mount.

Origins and Judaism

Garden of the Taj Mahal incorporates water, pathways, and a geometric design typical of a paradise garden.The paradise gardens of the ancient Near East are the earliest precursors to the idea of the New Jerusalem. In the Old Testament, The Book of Genesis describes the layout of the Garden of Eden as similar to that of the paradise gardens. In both schema, a walled enclosure divided by spans of water protects and delights its inhabitants. Also, the synthesis of geometric and natural arrangements in paradise gardens has an echo in the New Jerusalem. Since Judaism views the renewed Jerusalem as a kind of paradise, the Garden of Eden presents itself as the Jewish prototype for the New Jerusalem. In these ways, the Garden of Eden, as a prominent feature of the creation myths of both Judaism and Christianity, is elemental to the idea of the New Jerusalem.

The city of Jerusalem holds immense importance to Judaism. The Jewish faith has long considered Jerusalem its most holy city, the center of the Promised Land, and a symbol of the Jewish people. Indeed, the modern Jewish state of Israel holds Jerusalem as its capital, though this claim is controversial. This ancient and persistent religious significance of Jerusalem explains why Jews began to associate the renewal of Jerusalem with paradise.

The Ark of the Covenant, the Tabernacle and the Temple in Jerusalem were instrumental in the development of the idea of the New Jerusalem. The history of these places of worship tie into that of the New Jerusalem.

The concept of the New Jerusalem has its most immediate origins in Judaism with the destruction of Solomon's Temple and the Babylonian captivity, events that spurred the ancient Jewish hope for a restoration of Jerusalem. When Nebuchadnezzar II of Babylon sacked Jerusalem, laid waste the Temple, and took the Jews into captivity in 586 BC, the Jewish prophet Ezekiel foretold of the restoration of Jerusalem to his people. The Jews held Ezekiel's promise of the restoration of Jerusalem close to their hearts during the captivity and afterwards. In the course of history, various other prophets came forth with messages of Jerusalem's renewal. There has long been a belief in Judaism that the Messiah will enter through the Golden Gate, renew Jerusalem and Israel, and save the Jewish people. Zion is related to the New Jerusalem.

Certain elements of modern religious Zionism, especially Christian Zionism, harken back to this ancient Jewish yearning for a restoration of Jerusalem. The idea of The Third Temple has much in common with the concept of the New Jerusalem.


Christianity
Christianity portal
As Christianity originated as a sect of Judaism, the history of Jewish places of worship and the currents of thought in ancient Judaism described above served in part as the basis for the development of the Christian conception of the New Jerusalem. In addition to Judaism's reverence for the city, Christians have always placed religious significance on Jerusalem as the site of The Crucifixion and other events central to the Christian faith. In particular, the destruction of the Second Temple that took place in the year 70, a few decades after Christianity began its split from Judaism, was seminal to the nascent Christian apocalypticism of that time. During the Olivet discourse of the Gospels, Jesus foretells of the destruction of Herod's Temple, and promises that it will precede the return of the Son of Man, the Second Coming. This prophecy of the renewal of Jerusalem by the messiah echoes those of the Jewish prophets. John of Patmos' vision of the New Jerusalem in the Book of Revelation draws on the Olivet discourse and all the historical precursors mentioned above.

Based on the Book of Revelation, premillennialism holds that, following the end times and the second creation of heaven and earth, the New Jerusalem will be the earthly location where all true believers will spend eternity with God. The New Jerusalem is not limited to eschatology, however. Many Christians view the New Jerusalem as a current reality. Christians view the New Jerusalem as the consummation of the Body of Christ, the Church. According to this view, Christians already take part in membership of both the heavenly Jerusalem and the earthly Church in a kind of "dual citizenship."[1] In this way, the New Jerusalem represents to Christians the final and everlasting reconciliation of God and His chosen people, "the end of the Christian pilgrimage."[1] As such, the New Jerusalem is a conception of heaven.


The Book of Revelation

Folio 55r of the Bamberg Apocalypse depicts the angel showing John the New Jerusalem, with the Lamb of God at its center.The term New Jerusalem occurs twice in the New Testament, in verses 3:12 and 21:2 of the Book of Revelation. The new in the New Jerusalem comes from the Greek word kainos, which has a meaning different from neos, the other Greek word usually translated into English as new. Neos refers to something newly created, whereas kainos means something renewed or refreshed. A large portion of the final two chapters of the Christian Bible deals with John of Patmos' vision of the New Jerusalem. He describes the New Jerusalem as "'the bride, the wife of the Lamb'".

After John witnesses the new heaven and a new earth "that no longer has any sea", an angel takes him "in the Spirit" to a vantage point on "a great and high mountain" to see the New Jerusalem's descent. The enormous city comes out of heaven from God, down to the new earth. John follows his narration of the city's descent with an elaborate description. This description of the New Jerusalem retains many features of the Garden of Eden and the paradise garden, such as rivers, a square shape, a wall, and the Tree of Life.


Description
According to John, the New Jerusalem is "pure gold, like clear glass" and its "brilliance [is] like a very costly stone, as a stone of crystal-clear jasper." The street of the city is also made of "pure gold, like transparent glass". Biblical writers often used gold as a symbol for eternity, as it does not rust, and kingship, as it is very valuable. The base of the city is laid out in a square and surrounded by a wall made of jasper. John writes that the wall is 144 cubits, but is unclear if he means tall, thick, or wide. 144 cubits are about equal to 65 meters, or 72 yards. It is important to note that 12 is the square root of 144. The number 12 was very important to early Jews and Christians, representing the 12 tribes of Israel, and the number of months in a year. The four sides of the city represented the four cardinal directions (North, South, East, and West.) In this way, New Jerusalem was thought of as an inclusive place, with gates accepting all of the 12 tribes of Israel from all corners of the earth.

Also according to John, there is no temple building in the New Jerusalem, as the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the city's temple, since they are worshipped everywhere. Revelation 22 goes on to describe a river of the water of life that flows down the middle of the great street of the city from the throne of God. The tree of life grows in the middle of this street and on either side, or in the middle of the street and on either side of the river. Each tree bears twelve fruits, or kinds of fruits, and yields its fruit every month. According to John, "The leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations." This inclusion of the tree of life in the New Jerusalem harkens back to the Garden of Eden. The fruit the tree bears may be the fruit of life.

John states that the New Jerusalem will be free of sin. According to the Seer, the servants of God will have theosis, and "His name will be on their foreheads." Night will no longer fall, and the inhabitants of the city will "have need no lamp nor light of the sun, for the Lord God gives them light." John ends his account of the New Jerusalem by stressing its eternal nature: "And they shall reign forever and ever."

Gates
There are twelve gates in the wall oriented to the compass with three each on the east, north, south, and west sides. There is an angel at each gate, or gatehouse. These gates are each made of a single pearl, giving them the name of the "pearly gates". The names of the twelve tribes of Israel are written on these gates. This list either alludes to the traditional division of the Twelve Tribes as written on the vestments of the Kohen Gadol, or the other division based on the partition of land. The gates are arranged in the same way as the tribes were in the encampment of the forty years' wandering, though the Seer lists the gates in an order different from that of the Old Testament's description of the encampment. The layout of the gates likely remains parallel to that of the tribes, given the description of precious stones that follows.

etc...

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Physical Jerusalem.

For real. The New Jerusalem is being built right now. Your free gift. Right on time too. 2000 years since Jesus.
[link to www.alphaomeganewjerusalem.com]

If it's literal Jerusalem, then does that mean it's also literal Babylon (in Iraq) when it talks about Babylon in the end times? I'm confused now b/c I really respect your opinion in other threads, but I'm not sure I agree with you on this one. Of course, like I said in the beginning, I could be wrong. It wouldn't be the first time...

symbolic Jerusalem somewhere else?
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rosslyn chapel

[link to davincicodetours.co.nz]

what about the word "Israel" ???

If the literal sense makes sense, then we need to leave it at that. Jerusalem means just that.

Now the question you can ask is where is the original Jerusalem and is it the same place labeled this today? This requires research to test if the current day Jerusalem is really the one in the Bible.

Some believe Jerusalem to have been Constantinople. The Mormons believe it is in the US, around Detroit I think (have to check).

I would think because of all the contention for this land, that where it is today truly is the Holy Land. If you put all the land on earth back together like a puzzle, it is near where the center would be. But that doesn't prove anything of course.

When we can't know something for certain, all we can do is pile the evidence and lean towards the biggest and most convincing pile. But in the end those who seek the truth honestly and the most passionately will be closest to it. Loving and seeking truth in my opinion is never a bad thing. It shows depth of character.

I think "Israel" refers to the 10 tribes, of which Ephraim is the head, and "Judah" refers to the Jews. God said he would join these two "sticks" together eventually. It hasn't happened yet. Ezekiel 37:16-17 says:

16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.

Ah... yes... the truth! You're right, seeking the truth is never a bad thing. I drive myself bonkers at times trying to find it. Which is what I'm trying to do here in this thread.

I like the point you make about all of the contention for the land hints at it truly being the literal Jerusalem, because I know that anything that God has put his name on, the enemy will try to usurp it.

One Stick I believe is Zeus and Yahweh coming back together.

What is interesting is the Bible says Jerusalem is between the two great seas. The current Jerusalem isn't clearly between two great seas, although there are two seas on both sides, but it's not right in the middle. But Constanstinople clearly is. And of course Constantine might of liked naming God's city after him. But only God knows for sure.

when i was a kid i had a dream ..there was a girl with punkrock hair and tattered cloths in a corner of a room..she was sitting there on the ground with her hands on her knees crying..I felt her sorrow was sooo deep..it was so much so that anyone feeling this kind of sorrow cant stand up ..

and on the other side of the room i felt a bigger sorrow a very intense deep beyond anything i ever felt..its as though all the sorrow in the world combined into it..it was reaching out trying to call out to the girl in the corner...the girl in the corner felt like she was abandoned ...but the thing about it was that the two were calling out for one another..but for some reason the girl couldn't hear it..
the voice i kept hearing calling the girl 'Israel' 'Israel'..

it was a very intense feeling seeing these two..I couldn't stand, i fell out and just layed there the overwhelmed by the emotion and the sorrow that the one had calling out to Israel,

it felt like it got so bad that i wanted to bridge the gap and get them together somehow..

to this day its has made an impression on me..

"I like the point you make about all of the contention for the land hints at it truly being the literal Jerusalem, because I know that anything that God has put his name on, the enemy will try to usurp it."

Yes defintetely makes you think. Check out my above post too about Constanstinople. That is the other city I've researched.

I was going to put up a site OneStick a little while back. Maybe I'll get this up afterall.

11:11 seems to fit the one stick concept too.

The mystery I believe of the Jealousy of Ephraim is that the leaders both come from BETHLEHEM Ephrata and are the same person. This is where Ephraim originates but also Judah. So what I believe may be the case is that both are the same person. They were enemies, but are in fact one person! They are Zeus and Yahweh.

Wow! Pretty interesting and powerful dream, to say the least!

Zeus and Yahweh? Now I'm completely confused. Please elaborate.

I believe God in his highest form creates instances of himself into both the male and the female sides. The female is represented as his Shekinah Glory. The male and the female then have a dispute much like a modern day divorce only then to reconcile and come back together as one. The jealousy is that God favors Judah and not Ephraim. Thus Ephraim is jealous of Judah and the jewish people.

But the truth is that the leader of Ephraim and the leader of Judah are in fact the same, Yahweh and Zeus. So it's kind of like God against God. Zeus felt Yahweh was too tough on people in the OT, so she came to preach more of the feminine side of God, his love and mercy.

You see justice is right, but mercy and love are also. The issue is finding the balance between the two. The OT represented strict justice. The NT more pacifism and grace. So the truth is in the proper balance of the two. And these two coming back together represents the proper balance of things.

Something like that at least.

A lot of it depends on how it is used, plus how the "Spirit of Truth" leads in both it's interpretation and it's spiritual application. Since all the Old Testament verses dealing with Babylon act's as a further explanation as to the genuine character of "Mystery Babylon the Great", then Babylon is talking about the Spiritual Babylon, the Occult world empire that has deceived the nations with the cup of her witchcrafts; and not the literal Nation of Babylon. So Jerusalem? What is the context of it's use, it can be literal or spiritual...or even both at the same time since spiritual symbols are multi-dimensional.

Hi Michelle,

I learned one of the meanings of Jerusalem is "City of Peace", it refers to the non-physical heart, to the center of consciousness, to inner-peace. All humans have it.

Your above video says it's no longer available. Would you mind trying to repost that?

I've never heard of the Zeus/Yahweh comparison. I have to admit "Zeus" sounds a bit weird to me, but I'll research and pray about it. The feminine aspect of Jesus does make sense to me, though, in light of the fact that we have to be "born again" through Jesus to reach the Father.

On the two-stick subject, have you noticed in the story of Joshua and Caleb conquering the promised land that Joshua was from the tribe of Ephraim and Caleb was from the tribe of Judah? I'd never noticed that before. Your onestick website sounds like a good idea. So many Christians have no idea about that prophecy of the two sticks coming together. I told my parents, who have been in church all their life, and they had no earthly idea what I was talking about.

I'm praying about the Jerusalem location. My leanings are that it's been moved from its present location, but I'll have to pray for God to reveal the truth to me.

Jerusalem, ive only learned recently, is a new physical city in the second heaven that is there now because all the evil beings have been cleared out and destroyed.

right now God is waking up people and getting the word out to them that the war is over. and He is doing many other things right now, that i wont mention on this thread

the questions u want to ask are:

1. where is zion on earth - zion being the first physical location to get the first dominion of the Kingdom, which is given to the Daughter of Zion

2. was the jerusalem city on earth over there in the middle east in palestine, was that location on the earth's geography, the actual real place where it was historically, or have we been deceived, and the maps/names changed?


ask God these questions
love,
me114

well.... if the physical jerusalem, the historical one, is actually located somewhere else on earth than where we, NOW, believe it is... THEN, the city of babylon would BE that jerusalem city that we believe is jerusalem now.

me114

you have asked the right question

in the last few years, I have thought of Israel to be the dead in Christ, and Judah to be those who are alive on earth, in Christ, who hold the sceptre, and that the ezekiel prophecy refers to joining those two groups


love
me114