Survival Guns discussed

Please, not the BS about the sound of the action crap making every bad guy shit his pants....

Anyone entering your home means to kill you. They KNOW you are there, unless it is some kids bent on vandalizing or robbing your TV & stereo for dope money.

If a pro has entered your house, the last thing you want to do is rack the slide and give your position away. You need to slowly release that safety and then kill your intruder if you feel situation warrants.



A pocket pistol is a great defensive arm for secondary reliance. Small hideout pistols and revolvers can save your life. Maybe you should keep a stainless .38 Chief's Special with you when you shower? Sometimes you can't conceal a full size 1911, like on the jogging path.

Mostly though, we are talking about post shtf. You will wear your pistol daily and sleep with it cocked and locked on your chest. If you don't sleepwalk, you are perfectly safe.

Every gun in your house had better be cocked & locked. Nobody needs an unloaded gun when they grab for one in a hurry. If a loaded weapon arouses fear or insecurity in yourself, you don't need to own a weapon.

Always observe the safe-handling rules;
Never point barrel at anything/anyone you don't want to destroy,
Every gun is ALWAYS Loaded until you verify it is not,
Never Trust Anyone Else with your weapon or ammunition,
Always verify your weapon's condition,
Take nothing for granted,
Never point barrel at or near anyone or anything....

Probably some "rules" I forgot. How many people are killed while cleaning an "unloaded" gun? Every one is too many! Got any brains? Check the chamber. Maybe feel with your finger if the light is bad. Do not fuck around with your life or others' because you are lazy or stupid.

Buy an AR-10. Your rifles will share certain parts mainly all for the lower receiver except hammer and sear pins are common. If both rifles are A4 flat-top receivers you can swap/share socpe/optics.

You think that would be better than a M1 Grand. I like the grand due to the ease of care and the long range accuracy.

Shotguns....

Maybe long after the Aftermath, you will have a real use for a shotgun. Gonna be a longtime before you go bird hunting, or trap shooting. You sure won't take a shotgun in the field, unless it is all you have.

Pretty much the same way with the .22lr. A pellet rifle or pistol, maybe a bow to take pests in the garden or trash. Nobody will be shooting if they don't have to, not casually. Gunfire will be like smoke in the air, concerned neighbors will rally, grab their weaponry and come to your aid. You would/will do same for them. Gonna be a longtime before casual shooting resurfaces.

If I am on my property or afield, I am going to have a rifle and pistol. Maybe a magnum handgun instead of the pistol, although go to realguns.com and checkout the .45super and .460Rowland columns.

No deer of any size will survive 30rds of .223 75gr match. No bear will survive 20rds of 180gr Bronze point or Grand Slam from an AR-10. Either rifle will deliver at 500yds if you can see your target and are capable of making the shot.

Why am I going to compromise that capability with a shotgun. If I am going to be shooting small game, why aren't I snaring them anyway? Who in hell will have time for hunting? Set out 20-40 snares and each one is hunting for you.

What you better have is lots of food.
If a deer emerges from a clearing or runs past you in a pasture, you better have something to take it, or that is food lost.

You better have some good defense against wild dogs. And you better have your own inside & outside watch dogs to sound the alert whenever they feel a disturbance in the force...

I want that defensive rifle and pistol foremost.
All the rest are just gravy...

Nothing "easy" about a Garand. Great tool for its time. The best Garands were converted to M14 wannabes by Berretta, the BM59...

Lots of reasons not to go garand.
Nobody making mil-spec parts anymore, and the good parts are way up in price.
En-bloc clips are clumsy compared to magazines, hold 8 vs 20rds,
Garand can't be cleaned from rear. Last thing you want to do is wear your crown with a cleaning rod, so always use a Dewey bore guide when cleaning.
The stocks are a mess.
Long and heavy,
Can't mount a scope unless you go Scout or M1d side-mount.
Not as accurate as an M1a, or all the Service Rifle .308 shooters would be shooting Garand.


AR-10 has mil-spec parts. Knights Armament SR25 uses Armalite parts. AR-10 has integral scope base. AR-10 radial lug bolt design is better for accuracy than any other design. David Tubb won High Power at Camp Perry with an SR25. Stock requires no bedding, has no influence on acccuracy, for best accuacy you want a free-float tube.

Bolt action only beats AR design at longrange because no gas hole in the bolt gun. Some convert the AR design to manual cycle bolt and gain the accuracy back and give up no velocity loss. If have to shoot .308 IE Palma Matches, can't get the velocity needed for 1000yds from gas gun.

If you want to own a nice shooting relic, get a Garand.
If you want accuracy go Armalite AR design.

Check out the Springfield Armory Scout Squad

[link to www.springfield-armory.com]

You should probably read this. There is no, I repeat no handgun round that provides instant incapacitation, unless it's a head or spine shot. You will need to double tap even if it's a .45 just to be sure. Better safe than sorry.


Newgard, Ken, M.D.: "The Physiological Effects of Handgun Bullets: The Mechanisms of Wounding and Incapacitation." Wound Ballistics Review, 1(3): 12-17; 1992.

This article examines the physiological mechanisms of the human body to provide a medical answer to the question: How many times is it necessary to shoot an assailant before he is incapacitated?

Newgard reviews the physiological mechanisms of gunshot wound trauma incapacitation:

"The only method of reliably stopping a human with a handgun is to decrease the functioning capability of the central nervous system (CNS) and specifically, the brain and cervical spinal cord. There are two ways to accomplish this goal: 1) direct trauma to the CNS tissue resulting in tissue destruction and 2) lack of oxygen to the brain caused by bleeding and loss of blood pressure."

Newgard discusses the body's blood loss sensory and compensatory mechanisms (venous constriction, increased cardiac output and vascular fluid transfer), and the degree in which these mechanisms respond to, and compensate for, hemorrhagic shock. He reviews clinical tests of human tolerance for blood loss, which "demonstrate that adequate blood pressure can be maintained with minimal symptoms until a 20% blood deficit was reached." Newgard provides the following example:

"For an average 70 kg (155 lb.)* male the cardiac output will be 5.5 liters (~1.4 gallons) per minute. His blood volume will be 60 ml per kg (0.92 fl. oz. per lb.) or 4200 ml (~1.1 gallons). Assuming his cardiac output can double under stress (as his heart beats faster and with greater force). his aortic blood flow can reach 11 liters (~2.8 gallons) per minute. If one assumes a wound that totally severs the thoracic aorta, then it would take 4.6 seconds to lose 20% of his blood volume from one point of injury. This is the minimum time in which a person could lose 20% of his blood volume.... This analysis does not account for oxygen contained in the blood already perfusing the brain, that will keep the brain functioning for an even longer period of time.

"Most wounds will not bleed at this rate because: 1) bullets usually do not transect (completely sever) blood vessels, 2) as blood pressure falls, the bleeding slows, 3) surrounding tissue acts as a barrier to blood loss, 4) the bullet may only penetrate smaller blood vessels, 5) bullets can disrupt tissue without hitting any major blood vessels resulting in a slow ooze rather than rapid bleeding, and 6) the above mentioned compensatory mechanisms."

Newgard investigates the survival times of persons who received fatal gunshot wounds to determine if the person who was shot had enough time to shoot back. He concludes:

"Instantaneous incapacitation is not possible with non central nervous system wounds and does not always occur with central nervous system wounds. The intrinsic physiologic compensatory mechanisms of humans makes it difficult to inhibit a determined, aggressive person's activities until he has lost enough blood to cause hemorrhagic shock. The body's compensatory mechanisms designed to save a person's life after sustaining a bleeding wound, allow a person to continue to be a threat after receiving an eventually fatal wound, thus necessitating more rounds being fired in order to incapacitate or stop the assailant."

No handgun round that provides instant incapacitation...

Maybe not, but a large diameter, .429/.452 bullet, weighing over 240-350gr and moving 1000fps will suffice. Hell, the .45acp was developed to stop the drugged up Maori Philipino insurrectionists. Maybe they are little guys? Sgt York seems to have acquitted himself very nicely with a 1911.

I dunno. Who can argue with the latest expert dujour and their data? I recall reading Skeeter Skelton's article in Shooting Times where he described killing slaughter bulls at a friends meatpacking yard. The .44magnum, then the worlds most powerful, was 100%, iirc. Even the owners .30-06 with surplus AP armor-piercing, wasn't 100%.

Who the hell knows? You go with what is proven to work. Ball .45acp will "work". Will it kill a charging Cape Buffalo or 350lb derango meth freak? Probably not instantaneously, or maybe your number wasn't up yet and you are successful???

About all I am trying to do with any of my informational threads is share something I know about. No, I've never shot at anyone so no experience in the killing wild-eyed maniacs dept.


Most pistolfights take place within 7ft, that used to be an accepted maxim proven by FBI statistics. I know I want a 230gr flat point fmj bullet if the chips are down, otherwise I have Federal Hydrashok and Silvertips.

Got some 200gr fmj flatpoints by mistake from the dealer. 250 of these will do the job in my .45 Super cases.

Even cheap ball .45acp ammo is accurate. If you can land a center torso hit with a .45acp your opponent will go down. The old adage is to shoot until they are no longer a threat, IE drop their gun.

Who wants to shoot anybody?
Yet if the shithooks materialize on your backporch, you better be able to land solid blows and still have a loaded weapon. A .45acp is very able, unless you prefer a Desert Eagle in .44mag or .50AE. They work too.

At somepoint your preparations need to be turned to readiness.


With weapons this means,
Lube mechanisms and clean barrels,
Check torque values on fasteners,
Verify zeros,
Load magazines,
Organize ammunition and magazines for efficiency,
Finish handloading projects,
Know or formulate a response plan

Post #458 just previous...

Why in fuck aren't all American .45 caliber weapons standardized at .451 or maybe .452 diameter? I do know the answer, case wall. .45acp should've been based on a shortened .45Colt but rimless. .458mag is straight walled H&H Magnum case. Sure would've made life easier.,,

same reason they've recently came out with all these WSM rounds, the .308 Marlin etc...

so they can sell you the bullets I guess...

Pretty nice to have a .444 Marlin and a .44magnum, at least they take the same bullet diameter. Yet, the Marlin 1894 is just about all you need, unless you are an outback sourdough who wants that extra margin of power. Cast your own bullets have couple hundred rounds loaded for each and you are set. Nice to have a scoped .22 pistol.

Actually, this combo makes quite a bit of sense. You could load shotshell rounds for the .444 and use Speer shotcaps in the magnum pistol if you want something like a shotgun. Who really "needs" a shotgun though? A .22 will take small game and a mildly loaded .44 will kill any small animal like lightning.

Mel Tappan in Survival Guns had some inventories of weaponry that various clients/acquaintances selected in the mid 70s to serve their survival needs. Maybe we can update that concept in the next pages?

Basic Weapons Inventory, on a budget...

+++ Sorry, but you waited too long to buy if you are on a budget. The demand for defensive weapons has exploded and even used clunkers are demanding premium prices. +++

Defensive Pistol:
.45acp 1911 A1 pistol Springfield Armory, the WWII GI model is very basic but needs sights, so buy the next step up with adj or raised high visibility sights. Buy at least 2-4 spare magazines and a quality holster and double magazine carrier.

Defensive Rifle:
.223Rem AR-15 with flat-top upper receiver for scope mounting and 20" chrome lined or stainless barrel. Any rifle by Colt, Armalite, Rock River Arms, Bushmaster, Olympic Arms, Smith & Wesson, H&R, will be of high quality fit & finish. Buy at least 5 or 10 spare magazines in a mix of 20rd & 30rd sizes.


NOTE: If you go to gunbroker.com and search on 1911 and AR-15 you will see very few weapons for sale compared to several months ago. Gunbroker, gunsamerica.com, and auctionarms.com are great resources to check prices. If you search gunbroker limiting search to your state, in the modern arms category, you may find a neighbor selling what you are seeking. Great way to get a deal. Ordering guns from an out of state seller involves seller shipping to FFL holder for transfer. Easy and usually pretty cheap. See what gear is worth before you buy. Have your FFL holder lined up before you pay.


.22LR:
Ruger 10/22 rifle in basic configuration, with couple spare 10rd mags and possibly a couple of 25/30rd magazines.

If you prefer a pistol, or want both, Ruger MK II target with couple spare magazines.

Ain't that the truth!

I am about to sell an AK that I have, probably for twice what I paid for it a few years ago. I have no use for it, and would rather invest that money into more reloading components for the guns I want to keep.

What are the "Best Guns" out there?

No, not gonna talk Purdy, Boss, or Krieghoff engraved shotgun sets. Wow, though what beauties they are!

Nope, this is just a discussion about the makers of Americas best weaponry over the years. Some are imported, primarily from Finland (Sako/Tikka), and Germany (Steyr-Mannlicher, Heckler & Koch), then there are the Swiss SIGs, and other foreign assault weapon mfrs Galil, Valmet, Daewoo, and the Kalashnikov variants. Probably not going to cover some, and I will forget others...


.22 pistols: (self-loading magazine fed repeaters)
Lots of discussion at rimfirecentral.com

S&W model 41 .22lr target pistol is about the finest ever produced. Still in production with fewer options, a fine target piece. The 80s production 2206 is also highly regarded.

High Standard Victor, Supermatic, Trophy, and all various incarnations. Superb .22lr pistols no longer in production. Gone about 25yrs.

Browning, Current & recent Buckmark models are highly regarded. Prior series Challenger and Medalist were Fabrique Nationale Belgian made and simply magnificent.

Colt, ACE 1911 frame dedicated .22LR pistol, a real treasure to shoot; or get the Conversion Kit, but the ACE is the cat's meow. Superb pistols every Colt from the humble Huntsman to the Targetsman, Woodsman and Woodsman Match Target. Four or six inch barrels, superb design that all other makers could only aspire to.

Ruger Mk I, II, III(?) and .22/45. A great design for inexpensive production pistol. Ruger's first design. Simple and capable of fine accuracy when accessorized. Volquartsen comes to mind for triggers. The piece needs work, but is still about the best .22 pistol value going.


Walther, not the TP22; but the PP, PPK, PPK/S, and TPH. These are superb pocket pistols and highly accurate double action proven design. A real work of craftsmanship.

I sold a mini 14 for the same reason a few weeks ago.

In the 90s Iver Johnson was revived and sold a Chinese made copy of the Colt Woodsman. Norinco made these IIRC. Norinco also produced a very inexpensive copy of the Browning .22 autoloader in the same era. Decent, but lacking the detail work. All Brownings are made in Japan these days, unless FN Herstal has returned mfr to Belgium.

I don't read gun magazines anymore, haven't for years, so undoubtedly I am not up on all the latest info. Probably the last Gun Digest I bought was an 80s era publication.

Lots of fine target autoloaders from Europe out there.
Beretta made one in the 70s. Walther had one with a mag well forward of the trigger guard like a Broomhandle Mauser. Mauser/Interarms at one time imported a nice double action pocket pistol with .22/.32/.380 barrels. Hammerli and Sig have done some fine target pistols.

Most of the cheap pocket pistols chambered in .22lr are just junk. This includes the tiny Berettas, at least those I've seen were junk....

I have two gun safes full of weapons. When shtf, I will take my Ruger 10-22,Rem 700BDL-270, Benelli Tac-12 GA,Ruger P94-40SW, S&W686-357, Unkowen chambered in Russ 7.62X54R (because I have 2000 rounds) And an old AK-47 that still fires like shit! but I have ammo for it!
I have over XXXX (and more) rounds for these weapons, however I doubt I will be able to carry all of the rounds.
Depends on the scenario. If I have to survive in place. I have a few other surprises for thugs looking to take me out for food or whatever!

water,water,water,water

.22lr Revolvers:

Smith & Wesson are the finest double action handguns ever produced. The K and J frame variants all have superb actions and fit/finish. Probably the K-22 match, AKA the model 17 is top of the line. The .22 Combat Masterpiece w/adj sights would be among the finest field use pistols if you found one. There were some produced in Stainless a few years back. The J-frame Kit Guns are some of the finest handy pocket guns you could ever find. If you can find an S&W made 15 or 20yrs ago, or much older, it will be a Treasure. The new weapons are very nice, but who wants a 9 shot revolver?

Colt made the Diamondback for a few years in .22LR. Most often seen in .38sp, this is the smaller frame version of the Python. A superb revolver, if you like Colt triggers. I don't. There were some other match grade .22s made for the bullseye target shooters for many years. Highly esteemed guns they remain.

Colt made a big market for .22 single actions after Ruger introduced the Single Six. The Colt Frontier and Single Action Army SA Revolvers of the 60s and 70s were beautiful and accurate.

Ruger really hit the bigtime with their Single Six, Super Single Six and Bearcat SA Revolvers. Offering these with dual cylinders once the Winchester Rimfire Magnum was introduced made the WRM, now known as .22Magnum (although there were earlier rimfire Magnums in the 50s) the hit it is today.

High Standard sold a variety of nice DA revolvers and Western style Single actions. The HS revolvers were 8 or 9 shot IIRC.

Iver Johnson failed to pioneer much on their 19th century designs and lost market share after WWII.

F-me dude I live in one of the most dangerous cities in the US. I have a loaded and locked Tac by my bed, and a loaded locked handgun in my nightstand, and most of my weapons that are in my safes are loaded. I have a few other surprises loaded and ready also. Hey I ain't taking chances. I got my house shot up in a drive by. Those assholes were lucky they were driving by. Had they stopped, they would have been pushing up daisies 8 years ago!

And yes I have kids, but they are all adults now. But I have grandchildren. It is all about education. Keep your guns locked up, but also educate your kids. Guns are nothing to be ashamed of. Take your kids out to the shooting range. Teach them, show them what happens when a bullet hits flesh. Easy for me because I am also a hunter. For those of you who are not there are videos, although graphic (as they should be) will teach the results of a bullit going into and out of a body! TEACH them.

.22LR Rifles:

Autoloaders:
The Remington Nylon 66 is probably the biggest selling .22 auto rifle of all time. Durable, reliable, tough and good looking. About $39 when introduced. It was the only one of the Nylon .22s to remain in the Remington line. Bolt action, lever action, single shot, and clip/mag fed autoloader were among the models that didn't make it. The 77 mag auotoloader was reincarnated as the 10C. Nice .22 for around the ranch or in the truck or canoe.

The Remington Speedmaster is a tube fed full size rifle that is time proven, accurate and aside from the Weatherby .22 auto, probably the best all-around adult or full size .22auto rifle you can buy. Winchester also made some fine .22 autoloaders. Mostly pre-64 model 61 and 63 are considered possible the best every made.

Ruger 10/22 is the most popular autoloader, bound to have outsold the Nylon 66 by now. The 10/22 with modular receiver and easily replaced barrel is cheap to buy and loaded with accessories. Look at Brownells.com and search for 10/22. There are hundreds of custom accessories and accoutrement.

Colt sold the colteer semi auto for a few years. Well regarded.

The Browning .22 Autoloader is a superb little carbine which features takedown and buttstock tube magazine. A fine little rifle, especially suited for children or women of small stature. Remington made the model 31 under license from Browning.

Marlin has made many, many cheap .22lr autoloaders over the years. Their finest .22 is the model 39 lever action.

Armalite developed the AR-7 takedown carbine for pilots and the military for survival. The action and barrel are stored in the buttstock and the whole assembly floats in the water. Way better than a sharp stick, but the ones I've seen weren't the most accurate and had problems with the magazines. Charter Arms made these for years and adapted the action to a semi-auto pistol. I believe Henry produces the gun these days.

Undoubtedly the finest .22LR autoloader ever made was the Weatherby .22LR. Beautiful, full size rifle. Very collected these days. A Fine gun if you own one.


Probably the best choices on the current new mfr market if you want a .22 autoloader are the Ruger 10/22 and the Rem Speedmaster.

.22 Rifles,
Lever Action repeaters...

There was a single shot Ithaca with Western styling, but I believe a falling block mechanism. Not much of a gun.

The various Marlin 39 rifles and carbines, especially the takedown versions are undoubtedly the finest .22 lever actions ever made. If you don't own a Marlin 39, get one! You will really enjoy owning the best.

The Winchester 9422 and 9422M are also superb takedown .22 rifles. Very collectible and accurate. Could never see the reasoning for the .22magnum but many did.

Browning produced a lever .22 from Japan in the 70s, the BL22. Beautiful wood and bluing. A nice gun, but...

Winchester offered an updated .22lever rifle about the time the model 88 caught on big. Bound to be a nice rifle. Like the Remington Nylon 76, not a big hit.

Marlin or Winchester 9422 would be my choice. Go for the full size Marlin with pistol grip stock if you want full accuracy and velocity along w/maximum tube magazine capacity.

.22 rifles,
Bolt Action...

Not a fan of single shots. A Winchester or Remington would be hard to beat if you want a single shot.

The Winchester 52 is The highest regarded .22lr bolt action ever produced. Yet the recent Remington 541 is likely its equal or better. Technology marches on etc.

If we really want The Best in a .22lr bolt gun, look to Anschutz. Their sporting rifles and target pieces are the highest art of the rimfire gunmaker.

One of the finest all-around bolt rifles is/was the Remington 513T. This match repeater offered micrometer sights and used the typical Remington magazine of the day. Brownells still sells replacement magazines that are perfect replicas, just don't say Remington on the floorplate. Look for one of these with a grooved receiver, IE later production. If you ever want to mount a scope, it can be problematic with the older rifles' receiver.

The Remington Nylon bolt rifles are very nice. Also very collectible. Marlin, Mossberg made some fine .22 bolts before WWII.

One of the finest bolt sporters was the Browning T-Bolt, a straight pull magazine repeater. Beautiful little guns.

If I wanted a bolt rifle, I'd look for a Remington 541 or a 513T,

No survival gun is gonna be useful if you can't have it.

Remember what Barak and the Dems are likely to confiscate - what they define as 'assault rifles'. Then they're gonna come after the 'sniper rifles' and 'military rifles'. I used to talk about giving up guns and cold dead fingers, but no more. Now I think more practically - if some UNer is prying my AR-15 from my cold, dead fingers because I wouldn't give it up, who's gonna protect my family and my country?

Anything I acquire in the future is gonna be less offensive to the Ruling Party so I can hold on to it longer. I'm looking towards the Remington pump rifles - 7615 .223, which accepts M-16 mags, and 7600 in .308 or .30-06. The good ol' Amish Machine Gun should be close to the bottom of the confiscation list. If I get that bug up my ass again, I may even have to get on specially chambered in .375 Hawk/Scovill for some really specialized work.

Pump shotguns. Still lead the pack on the versatility scale. You got ten guys? Load up half of 'em with rifled barrels and scopes, the other half with smoothbores and ghost ring/post sights. Give a couple of the smoothbore guys some of the esoteric loadings (flash-bangs, dragon's breath, etc.) and you have a rather formidable force. Or, just give the guys with the smoothbores a mix of 00 buck/#4 lead/rifled slugs. Not many of the zombies would be stupid enough to continue an attack after first contact.

Lever-action rifles, especially the M-94 variety. Real good, acceptably accurate, and no mags to lose. A coupla squads o' guys with lever-acton thutty-thuttys would be a formidable force, especially if they cover for each other's reloads.

But, I wouldn't go nuts. In a bug-out situation, how many guns can you use? I figure two per person (long arm and side arm) Plus a coupla extras for failures or specialized uses. Those of you who are already at your safe zone can have the arsenals, but those of us who have tied ourselves to semi-urban areas will have to rely on what we can carry, and we'll need be careful not to piss off TPTB with the politically incorrect stuff. So, in my sitch, I'd need to come up with between 10 and 15 pieces. That's still ALOT of hardware to try to carry through checkpoints.

Centerfire Handguns

Mostly Revolvers in this section, except that the 1911 Colt commonly called the .45auto or Colt 45 is very well suited to small and even medium game. The 1911 was produced, still might be for all I know, in 9mm Luger, .38 Super, and .45acp; maybe even in .38acp which is a shorter/original version of the Super. The Desert Eagle is also a very capable Centerfire autoloader in .357mag, .44mag, and .50Action Express. The Wildey and LAR, plus the Auto Mag are other pistols of real capability.

Yet, "real capability" does not always translate. Better have spare parts, be able to get them if you are buying weapons for survivalist use. Wildey, Auto-Mag, LAR are pretty much past tense.

Another marginal handgun is the Thompson Contender. Marginal in its single shot and long ungainly design. Not to be too hard on these fine single-shots, they rather feel like some nice late 19th century dueling pistol. The 14" barrel version is about the most versatile when it comes to rifle ctg chamberings. Many of the Herrett, Waters and other wildcats that were developed for the TC Contender are eclipsed these days.

Really, aside from Defensive Pistols, we are going to address Revolvers. The best premise to go with is studying ballistics and flexibility, then choose from the piece that suits you best.

To get the best performance from any Centerfire handgun, pistol or Revolver; YOU WILL NEED TO HANDLOAD!

The .32 H&R magnum is a .308 diameter bullet in an extended .32Special case. Great for pests and small game. Not widely chambered which is a shame. Ruger chambered their Single Six, S&W chambered the Jframe 631 and maybe the LadySmith, and Taurus also offered a similar piece. If you live where small game abounds and like owning a lot of handguns, you likley already have one. Not as versatile as the .38special but a cool ctg that never really made it.

Ruger used to chamber the Blackhawk in .30 carbine, which is another .308 diameter handgun round. Colt offered the model P, model 1873 SAA in .32-20 and these are HIGHLY COLLECTIBLE/Valuable. Many in the 20s/30s favored the Winchester model 92 and a Colt Single Action in same chambering so...

Of course, the .30Herret and .30-30Win among others were chambered in the Contenders.


The .38 Special and .357 S&W Magnum are the most popular revolver ctgs ever made. The magnum being highly touted and it was the first hunter's big game weapon, although there were adherents like Elmer Keith who advocated hot loaded .44 Specials in the best quality S&W N frame handguns. The .38sp is a great small game round, but the .357 is somewhat over rated. Actually, unless you are shooting a 6" or 8-3/8" piece, you aren't really getting the velocity that generates the performance the magnum made its bones with. Al Goerg was one of the first to take Big Game with the Magnum and he used the 8" barrel to do it. A 2.5" barrel or even a 4" barrel on a .357 produces a fierce blast and flash, but not that much energy. Adequate on deer and other medium sized game, not really an all-around ctg if you live in Big Game country.

S&W model 28 is the most elegant Revolver S&W ever produced. Great weapon especially with 170 or heavier handloads. The N frame S&W will handle full power loads on a routine basis. The K and L frame weapons are less substantial. Nice carry weapons for their lightness, but no match for a full power N frame in durability. Taurus makes nice S&W copies. Colt has offered The .357 Magnum, Python, and Trooper in this chambering. Pythons are works of art in their own right. Dan Wesson Arms pioneered Massive frame Revolvers and interchangeable barrels for silhouette shooters. Highly regarded for accuracy, the Dan Wesson Arms crew also chambered their piece for Remingtons .357 Maximum which is a lengthened magnum case used by hunters or silhouette shooters to get maximum velocity for a .357 bullet.

Those guns look very promising. I have never fired one, but have lusted after the 7615 for quite awhile now.

Used to have one in '06. They're REALLY popular in PA, where semiautos for big game ain't allowed. Surprisingly accurate too. Out-of-the-box MOA isn't unusual, though you might need to try different ammo brands to find the sweet combo.

More Centerfire Handgun Discussion.

Forgot the High Standard Crusader. This was a heavy magnum produced for a couple years in the 80s. A very highly regarded handgun, it was one of High Standard's last real efforts and it was a beauty.

The .38-40Win was originally an option for the 1873Win rifle. With Cowboy Action shooting, and the popularity of .40 caliber autos, it has made a comeback. Not too remarkable, but it will throw a .40cal 180 or 200gr bullet at decent velocity and that is about all it takes to kill game or for self-defense. Also chambered in the 1892 Winchester and Colt Single Action, second in popularity only to the .44-40 in Winchester/Colt combo pairings. Ruger offers their Vaquero and maybe the Blackhawk. Nostalgia aside, not really worth the effort.

Same with the .41 S&W Magnum, great if you own one. Maybe you have an S&W model 57 a really nice N frame or a 657? Taurus also makes a .41 and Ruger has chambered the Blackhawk, but aside from a much bigger step up from the .357mag, the .40s can't do anything the .44s can't do much better.


The .44 Remington Magnum is a superb all-around handgun and carbine ctg. Handloaded it can do it all. Colt, S&W, Ruger, Taurus, Desert Eagle all chamber fine handguns for this ctg.

Unless you live in South Central Alaska, particularly on Kodiak Island, you don't really "need" anything larger. The .44 will do it all, especially if you handload or buy specialty ammunition. Not much low powered mild ammo out there, that is really where handloading shines for this round. You just don't need to whack a bunny or a white tail deer with all that power. Very damn difficult to control with full-power loads. Yet with a 240gr cast bullet (or jacketed), the mag can be milder than a .38 Special. A big heavy bullet that punches a full diameter hole will take game or bad guys. If the .45acp will take bad guys all day long at 900fps w/roundnose ball ammo, the .44 will truly bowl them over with the same velocity but a flat nosed bullet. Go as hot as you can manage, the .44mag will deliver.


Yet, there are many larger ctgs out there these days...
more later.

Sorry,

I cannot see America coming out of this manufactured financial destruction.

There are too many who have blood from those who settled here, fought the Indians and British, and fought for State's Rights in The Southern Cause.

There is no money or supply to preserve America. Obama is not Lincoln. Had the Yankee bankers been broke before Ft Sumter, they could not have abrogated The Constitution. America is broken. TPTB will not come for your guns. As the population of the world is intentionally decimated and reduced by 95%, having the fittest survive will serve Their intent.

Buy the best tools for the job your see coming.
If you want a non-semi look at what the competitive shooters do in England. There, they leave off the gas hole and system from the AR and install a bolt handle and slot the receiver where the forward assist is/would be. There are upper receivers w/o a forward assist. See Brownells, DPMS makes it IIRC.

The Nation has no wealth. Maybe they will Nationalize all pensions and qualified plan monies on monday?

You had better have all you can get and then keep the best...

Large Centerfire Handguns...

.45Colt/.454Casull/.460S&W
Probably the most useful of all the large Magnum ctgs.
Ruger Super Redhawk in .454Casull is exceptional. S&W 25/625 in .45Colt is almost equivalent to .44 Rem magnum. All 3 ctgs share the same design and Casull can fire .45 Colt, .460 can fire Casull. Very powerful. Super Redhawk has built-in scope base. There is a stainless lever rifle in Casull if you want a combo set.

.45-70, .480 Ruger, .475 Linebaugh etc
With exception of the Ruger ctg, these are all either single shot, or done in very long framed revolvers. If you want to say you killed something big with a handgun, I guess you want a Linebaugh or .45-70. The Ruger was the first bigger than .45cal ctg marketed commercially, not much of a performer when compared to the Casull. The .48 cals are eclipsed by the .500 S&W. If you want big, bigger, biggest; the buck stops with the .500 S&W.

.500 S&W, .50 Action Express
The AE is a comparatively short cased ctg to fit in the magazine well of the Desert Eagle. Think .44mag on steroids. The .500S&W is a very strong powerhouse in a hugely powerful revolver. 4" barrel for bear defense I guess. 8" barrel for carbine performance on the hunt. Better have a muzzle brake/compensator and great hearing protection if you ever have to shoot one of these guys.