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MORGAN STANLEY: The risk of a Great Depression-style global debt-deflation cycle is 1 in 3

 
Anonymous Coward
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07/29/2008 03:58 AM
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MORGAN STANLEY: The risk of a Great Depression-style global debt-deflation cycle is 1 in 3
Downturn may be 'the big one'
Chris Zappone
July 29, 2008 - 12:26PM

[link to business.smh.com.au]

The risk of a Great Depression-style global debt-deflation cycle is one in three, according to an investment bank economist.

Beyond an anticipated cyclical slowdown in the next six months, Morgan Stanley economist Gerard Minack has raised the possibility of a substantial structural risk caused by lower asset pricing, high household debt levels, and a cash shortage.

"I think that for many Anglo economies the risk of a pronounced deleveraging-deflation cycle is higher now than it has been since the Great Depression," Mr Minack said in a note to clients.

"What makes this cycle different - and elevates the risk of a major unravelling - is the extremes that those trends have now reached."

In the United States, where the implosion of subprime debt values has affected other debt and asset markets, a number of economic gauges have risen to levels not seen since the time of the Great Depression, Mr Minack said.

Total US debt compared to the gross domestic product has surpassed levels seen in the mid-1930s. US household gearing is at an all-time high, as were US house prices before their fall in the wake of the subprime crisis.

Because of the tight links between the world's financial markets, a prolonged slump in the US could weigh down the global economy.

"The time is coming when we will all have to take a view on whether this cycle downturn is 'the big one'," Mr Minack wrote.

"That is, whether the virtuous forces that sustained the Anglo world's inter-linked boom in debt, leverage, and asset prices are turning vicious, leading to sustained debt reduction, asset price weakness, and, as a by-product, sharply lower rates and inflation."

Falls in home prices, employment levels and consumer spending give some suggestion about the magnitude of a possible slowdown in the months ahead, Mr Minack wrote.

He's not alone in his views that the slowdown we're seeing may not be of a cyclical, garden variety.

The International Monetary Fund released a report overnight warning that global markets remain fragile and face systemic stress one year after the subprime market crisis first emerged in the US.

The financial organisation noted there is no bottom in sight for the falls of the US housing market.

Looking ahead, the IMF expects global growth to stall, declining from 5% in 2007 to 4.1% in 2008 and 3.9% in 2009 amid an environment of "negative interaction between banking system adjustment and the real economy."

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sillygalah
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07/29/2008 04:58 AM
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Re: MORGAN STANLEY: The risk of a Great Depression-style global debt-deflation cycle is 1 in 3
Op - you know things are ominous with posts like this get to the bottom of GLP main page without a reply. I guess (much like the article written about NAB in the Business Spectator which was posted on this site in the past couple of days) that the considered opinion is 'it's only from Australia' - so it won't have any effect.

Thanks for the thread OP and a bg 'BUMP' to you
tosspot

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07/29/2008 06:08 AM
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Re: MORGAN STANLEY: The risk of a Great Depression-style global debt-deflation cycle is 1 in 3
bump
sillygalah
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07/29/2008 06:28 AM
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Re: MORGAN STANLEY: The risk of a Great Depression-style global debt-deflation cycle is 1 in 3
Yes indeed - this thread should be pinned; just as important as the ones upstairs. Gerard knows what he is talking about; he has been writing about financial markets for many years.

It's a little OT, however on the same subject; may I direct you to nakedcapitalism; go have a look, it's worth a read. It appears that National Australia Bank's surprise loss provision announcement of last Friday and Merril's unscheduled writedown announced today are linked. BTW I thought is was odd that the Merrill Lynch writedown was reported over the ASX (Australian Stock Exchange) broadcast system this morning.

Something is definitely happening in the 'State of Denmark'.

P.S. there is also a thread on freepers about another report that nakedcapitalism has written, however I can't find it on the site just now. It was there an hour ago. I have included a link to the thread - "has deleveraging even begun?"

[link to www.freerepublic.com]
Anonymous Coward
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07/29/2008 07:16 AM
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Re: MORGAN STANLEY: The risk of a Great Depression-style global debt-deflation cycle is 1 in 3
Seems like lots of news coming out of Australia these last few days is painting a fairly grim ahead.

Australians also read yesterday that Starbuck will be closing 61 of their 85 stores across Australia. Not good.

NAB writing off 90% of their US Mortgage exposure.

Scary stuff.
Anonymous Coward
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07/29/2008 07:32 AM
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Re: MORGAN STANLEY: The risk of a Great Depression-style global debt-deflation cycle is 1 in 3
1 in 3

That's only a 33.3% chance.

Is there a 66.6% chance of something less severe.
Anonymous Coward
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07/29/2008 08:56 AM
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Re: MORGAN STANLEY: The risk of a Great Depression-style global debt-deflation cycle is 1 in 3
bump
Anonymous Coward
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07/29/2008 09:00 AM
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Re: MORGAN STANLEY: The risk of a Great Depression-style global debt-deflation cycle is 1 in 3
So we have a much better chance of no depression happening.
anz
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07/29/2008 10:50 AM
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Re: MORGAN STANLEY: The risk of a Great Depression-style global debt-deflation cycle is 1 in 3
Seems like lots of news coming out of Australia these last few days is painting a fairly grim ahead.

Australians also read yesterday that Starbuck will be closing 61 of their 85 stores across Australia. Not good.

NAB writing off 90% of their US Mortgage exposure.

Scary stuff.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 475285


And ANZ also followed suite and wrote off 90% of their US mortgage exposure... so Aussie banks are busy marking to the real market... wait until the US has to follow suite.

As for Starbucks, it arrogantly assumed the American 'burnt' taste would go down well, down under; live and learn schmucks!

Gloria Jeans, the aussie coffee chain, had a better product all round and nice staff as well.

Go into Gloria Jeans and ask for a Cappacino. They say $3.50, and assume you want regular size with standard milk, and you hand over the cash. Easy.

Go into Starbucks and ask for a Cappacino. They say:

"Will that be the mega grand ?"
"No just the regular"
"We dont do regular we do standard large"
"Ok I'll have the 'standard large'"
"Do you want skimmed milk ?"
"No thanks"
"Have you tried our flavoured syrups ?"
"No thanks"
"We're doing an offer on a piece of cake and coffee for $10.00 ?"
"Yes please I'll have 50 pieces of cake and 50 coffees"
"What ?"
"Exactly." - and I walk out - who can be bothered with all that upselling shite - does that really work on you Americans.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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07/29/2008 11:53 AM
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Re: MORGAN STANLEY: The risk of a Great Depression-style global debt-deflation cycle is 1 in 3
1 in 3

That's only a 33.3% chance.

Is there a 66.6% chance of something less severe.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 372177


Let's say you have a 1 in 3 chance of having cancer, how would you feel?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 473298
United Kingdom
07/29/2008 11:56 AM
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Re: MORGAN STANLEY: The risk of a Great Depression-style global debt-deflation cycle is 1 in 3
Seems like lots of news coming out of Australia these last few days is painting a fairly grim ahead.

Australians also read yesterday that Starbuck will be closing 61 of their 85 stores across Australia. Not good.

NAB writing off 90% of their US Mortgage exposure.

Scary stuff.


And ANZ also followed suite and wrote off 90% of their US mortgage exposure... so Aussie banks are busy marking to the real market... wait until the US has to follow suite.

As for Starbucks, it arrogantly assumed the American 'burnt' taste would go down well, down under; live and learn schmucks!

Gloria Jeans, the aussie coffee chain, had a better product all round and nice staff as well.

Go into Gloria Jeans and ask for a Cappacino. They say $3.50, and assume you want regular size with standard milk, and you hand over the cash. Easy.

Go into Starbucks and ask for a Cappacino. They say:

"Will that be the mega grand ?"
"No just the regular"
"We dont do regular we do standard large"
"Ok I'll have the 'standard large'"
"Do you want skimmed milk ?"
"No thanks"
"Have you tried our flavoured syrups ?"
"No thanks"
"We're doing an offer on a piece of cake and coffee for $10.00 ?"
"Yes please I'll have 50 pieces of cake and 50 coffees"
"What ?"
"Exactly." - and I walk out - who can be bothered with all that upselling shite - does that really work on you Americans.
 Quoting: anz 71715


When I lived in craphole America at highschool I worked in a movie theatre. If you didnt upsell your boss shouted at you.





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