There are No "Victims"

AC you do go on about Seth and now The Secret. Personally I have never been drawn to either Seth and even less towards The Secret.

So perhaps you can come up with an alternative theory as to my being "dehumanized" as you put it. It is not due to either of the above, I can assure you of that.

Canuck

Baby - how are YOU accountable for the assault on your person by another person? The assaulter is the one who needs to be accountable, not you as the victim. Now when I say "victim" in your case, I'm not suggesting that you're a life-long victim of this assault. If you've overcome the trauma of it, then obviously you're no longer a victim and that's great. But please don't generalize when you say "there are no victims". There are many victims of ongoing atrocities by others. When you generalize like that, you are not doing a "service" for those people. It's just not black and white, that's all.

I can see your point, however, when people have Forgotten what is beyond this world and choose to believe only in the sick dramas of this planet, do you not think that a reminder of something 'a little more' can help some people to see past it all? Past all the negativity and dissonance they wallow in? Something to help them recognise the Illusionary nature of all this crap?

Look, either you resonate with my message or you do not. I am not asking you, or anyone else, to listen to it...

Azure'

You talk of suffering as if someone were ignoring it.

There is suffering in this world and it makes me very sad to see it. I had to think twice about coming here in the first place because it is messed up here. Here I am now, and, as expected, it hasn't been a smooth ride - but hey, so long as we can Choose Joy. We have Free Will, remember?

Azure'

Dear AC, there comes a time when I, even though I have a tremendous amount of patience and love towards others, become weary of trying to discuss or present thoughts to someone like you, who does nothing but swear, denigrate and criticise for whatever self-serving reason you have, so I am throwing the damn towel in.

AC you believe what you will about me, about whatever it is that is making your life so miserable, that you feel you must hurt others to make it more bearable for yourself.

As far as you are concerned AC, I am done with responding to any posts you might make on this thread as you are incapable of understanding and feeling the most rudimentary emotions of love or kindness towards others.

You are a victim through your own design. I wish you the very best in your life, but I no longer wish to have any kind of discourse with you on this thread.

"Past all the negativity and dissonance they wallow in?"

Yes, well, we're here on this planet, encased in this low vibratory matter, and there are many peoples who are suffering and starving because of the acts of others - right here, right now, and for the rest of their lives. I don't think those people are doing any "wallowing" by their own choice, do you?

In the greater scheme of things there are no real victims. That is what you do not understand. If it is recognised Consciosuly then it makes a Difference and I can vouche for that.

Azure'

"Dear AC, there comes a time when I, even though I have a tremendous amount of patience and love towards others, become weary of trying to discuss or present thoughts to someone like you, who does nothing but swear, denigrate and criticise for whatever self-serving reason you have, so I am throwing the damn towel in.

AC you believe what you will about me, about whatever it is that is making your life so miserable, that you feel you must hurt others to make it more bearable for yourself.

As far as you are concerned AC, I am done with responding to any posts you might make on this thread as you are incapable of understanding and feeling the most rudimentary emotions of love or kindness towards others.

You are a victim through your own design. I wish you the very best in your life, but I no longer wish to have any kind of discourse with you on this thread."



And you! YOUR callous, irresponsible statements are hurting others, not the other way around. Let's get that straight, you "New Age Bully"!

Yes, fine. But you have a life to live here on earth right now, and it appears you're not here - you're "there". What are you sowing for yourself here in this life that will affect what you reap on the other side? There IS evil here and there are low levels of being there too. If you're trying to help, I think you're doing more harm than good. But, my gut tells me that you're really putting on a superiority trip because you really have no clue about compassion and empathy.

That is where Compassion and Empathy comes in. Know that there *are those* who have Contracts to relieve that suffering. Look around you and you will see many people who are doing things to help other in situations like this. There may not be enough being done but progress has been made.

Again, what I'm talking about is an Attitude. Either you decide you want an Attitude about someting or you do not. I guarantee you there are many people who think only of themselves as victims who have not thought once about the possibility that they don't need to think of themselves in this way. Perhaps if someone were to introduce this concept to them it may change their whole life around - simply because of a change in Attitude.

Souls also learn about these things, but they needn't learn it "the hard way" - that in itself is a Lesson...

Azure'

The reality is that this "reality" is illusiory, it is not real, it is a nano-second in eternity, can you grasp that concept? You, me, the guy next door, your mother, your father every single soul on this planet, are immortal! Can you believe this? We never die, we cannot be harmed, when we leave this world, we return HOME, from whence we came. Do you believe in a God, a Creator, a Superior Entity of any sort? We came from somewhere, we were created by something or someone, is this incomprehensible to you? If so then ... I guess I'm wasting my breath.

So best regards to you AC, and you too believe what you will.. whatever makes you happy and comforts you on your journey. Just allow those of us who are on our own paths the courtesy of holding and sharing our own beliefs with each other and those who are interested in what we have to say. Thank you.

See how dark and evil this person canuck is? how cruel and malicious. this person is of satan, so to speak. just look how dark and evil/

Would you rather that the ways of the Spirit world not be brought here? Perhaps that is it.


I am not here to "score points". I am here because I, like many others, have a Contract we agreed to, and that Contract involves Healing the "evil" (as you put it.)


Fine, play "shoot the messenger" if you like. It's a really, really stale game these days, you know?

Azure'

Dear Azure', it has occurred to me that I have been learning on this thread, what it is that I incarnated on this planet for. Patience... but for tonight I'm packing it in, there are just some people that can't be reasoned with, no matter how kindly or lovingly it is done, no matter how much time is spent trying.

I wish you my dear, a wonderful, happy, healthy, prosperous New Year, and I have been blessed to have had the opportunity to meet you on this thread. I look forward to future opportunities to exchange ideas with you.

Blessings, love and light to you.

Canuck

Life on earth is not an illusion. Life on earth is the "borning" of individual consciousness, and when we die (our bodies), our spirit either rises into higher planes of vibration, or lower, "hellish" planes, dependent upon how we lived our life on earth. It's not all light and fluff for everyone. There is good and evil, and there are innocents and tyrants. And they will find their rightful place in the next phase of existence in the spirit world.

Oh come on, get real.

Those who believe they have figured it all out have, in actuality, halted their spiritual growth by closing their minds.

Dear Canuck, Beloved, it has been my honour to have shared this thread with someone like you.

I too am packing it in for the night.

There are indeed those whose purpose is to Oppose messages that have the potential to Uplift. Waste no more time with them when it becomes clear what their motives are. They constantly expose themsevles to the onlookers. You have shown wonderful Patience, Spiritual Maturity and Strength and I look forward very much to seeing you in the future.

Wishing you a year full of Balance, Fulfilment and Harmony.

In Unity Consciousness. Much Love, Light and Blessings to you,
Azure'

Sunday, April 29, 2007

I Believe in Victims; I Believe in Accidents

No victims, no accidents. That is what I heard over and again while attending a New Age fair in Atlanta, GA this weekend. The topic was the murders at Virginia Tech. The victims—oh, sorry, the volunteers—who died during Mr. Cho’s rampage had agreed to die (just as Cho had agreed to play the murderer) before they were even born in order to make some greater point that God needed made. And what is true of Virginia Tech is also true of deaths in Iraq, Afghanistan, and throughout the world. No victims, no accidents.

I believe in victims. A victim is a person who suffers from something over which she or he has no control, and for which she or he has no responsibility. Saying “I don’t believe in victims” is really saying, “You are responsible for whatever happens to you, and I don’t have to feel bad for or lend a hand to help you or anyone.”

I believe in accidents. Accidents are events that happen without intent. Note I didn’t say ‘without cause.” Everything has a cause. I knocked the class of orange juice off my writing table by accident. I didn’t intend to do it, but there were a number of causal factors in my doing it. I placed the glass too close to the table’s edge. I leaned too far across the table to grab a reference book. My elbow swung out and pushed the glass so far over the edge that gravity pulled it earthward. Lots of causes, no intent. An accident.

Intent, or rather the lack of it, is central to both victims and accidents. To say “no victims, no accidents” is to say everything that happens does so by intent. Everyone gets what they intend to get, good or bad, and there is no reason to be upset one way or the other.

One reason we believe in “no victims, no accidents” is that we, like Einstein, can’t stomach the idea that God plays dice with the universe. We don’t like chance; we want an ordered universe. But chance is not opposed to order. Toss a pair of dice one hundred times and you will get more sevens and elevens than twos and twelves. Guaranteed. What you cannot guarantee is what number will come up on any given roll of the dice.

Believing in order need not harden one’s heart to victims or close one’s mind to accident.
There are victims and we should feel deep sadness at their suffering. There are accidents and we should learn to live without certainty. Feeling sad and navigating anxiety open both heart and mind, and keep us humble. Living with reality is accepting what is, not excusing what is.

So many people I met this weekend wanted to be numb. They mistook this numbness for equanimity, even peace, even joy. They wore it like a badge of honor, a PHD in spiritual attainment. There is no suffering, there is no injustice, there is no horror. Everyone is simply playing out her or his agreed-to roles.

I couldn’t help noticing that everyone who told me this also told me that he or she had attained or was about to attain the American Dream of health, wealth, and happiness. It was clear to me that worrying about or feeling real sadness over the fate of others less fortunate then themselves was just going to muddy the waters of success, and they would have none of that. I can’t decide which is worse: a religion that robs us of mind or a spirituality that robs us of heart. Luckily in America we get to have both.
Posted by Rabbi Rami at 10:56 AM

Rabbi,
I really enjoyed that. Thank you. It's wonderful to have someone speak against the new agers nonsensical contradictory belief system that is based on self-deceit in an intelligent and peaceful manner. God bless you.

I'm glad you two have had a moment together but I believe you have underestimated the OP. I won't put words into her mouth as I'm sure she can make her own remarks. It is easy to misjudge and misinterpret and hence to judge or to qualify / label someone as "New Age" etc. She would be the first to have abundant compassion for anyone who suffers and would respond without hesitation to a person in need. That is the only human thing to do. But in the strictest sense, there are no pure victims. The soul is always aware of what it to transpire. Consciously we may be unaware and would never invite disaster into out lives, but it all serves a purpose in some way, whether for the individual soul or as a wake-up call to other souls. There is no pure randomness. There is action and the ramifications of action. The ramifications may not emerge for lifetimes and may require dire situations to rebalance - but in the end - death is but an illusion - for we are eternal creatures who live on. I could go on, but if you are entrenched, then I would be wasting both our time.

Shalom

OP-pressor

Very true. I think the way to mitigate the 'victim' mentality is to function from the heart. If acknowledged, the heart generates frequencies MUCH STRONGER than the brain frequencies which usually override it; young children generally function from their hearts until they 'learn' that is not 'how the world works' and buy into our brain-based behaviors.

While I do also agree with the concept of 'new age bullying', functioning from a compassionate heart center rather than an analytical brain center does provide protection in many situations. The field the heart is capable of generating is potentially very powerful. This IS an emotion-based field !

The backslapping shillathon between the two guys that call themselves azure and canuck never ends.

I will put the essence of what Victim Consciousness means in THREE WORDS: *To Taking Offence* This is what makes the Difference in how the Situation at hand- and/or past situation impacts on Every-Thing.

To Take Offence is where the discord begins.


An example of how Victim Consciosuness (which is, in spiritual terms, a *distortion*) outwardly-affects things in a negative way:

Persons Takes Offence --> Feels "Victimised" --> Others see the person as "a Victim" --> "Justice" is sought (aka Revenge) by the individual or 'obervers' --> Someone becomes the recipient of this revenge (is "victimised" in the process) --> New "Victim" is created --> *Cycle REPEATS*


Now do you see the BENFIT *of not* playing the Victim Game/Blame Game???

It takes only one participants in the Chain *to break the cycle*!

Now what is it that *YOU Choose*???

-To perpetuate the Cycle or to *break* it?-

Azure'

when they are at the top(of the food chain), they do not realize there is a bottom. i cannot hold this against them, they are ignorant and naive. i and my people are at the bottom of the world pyramid. it is harsh, but i would not have it any other way, it is better to be trod upon than be the trodder. my Hero is coming about 1/4, and He will make this thing known.

Aaaah. The pedophile shill creeps are back. Azure why don't you and canuck go into the back office and masturbate each others penis'? Oh I forgot. The director and a noob are already using it. My bad.

Don't worry, I love you too.

Sorry. What you call love most of the rest of us call rape.

No need to apologise for your words.