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Evolution vs creation ID question

 
Anonymous Coward
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01/14/2009 07:03 PM
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Evolution vs creation ID question
For those who believe in intellegent design and creationism.

Does it not bother you that the current pope and the two before him have gone on record stating that evolution is entirely consistant with gods work and that the evidence for it is so overwhelming that they also say that talk of creationism or intellegent design is plainly wrong.

Most christians are catholic and therefore most accept evolution. Its only in america that ID or creationism is even mentioned. It is never even discussed in europe except in reference to the religious right of america.

Or are they part of a conspiracy???
Anonymous Coward
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01/14/2009 07:04 PM
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Re: Evolution vs creation ID question
only catholics worry about what the Pope says
Anonymous Coward
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01/14/2009 07:05 PM
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Re: Evolution vs creation ID question
Only idiots worry about what religion says.
Anonymous Coward
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01/14/2009 07:07 PM
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Re: Evolution vs creation ID question
Simple, the universe was CREATED to EVOLVE.
Anonymous Coward
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01/14/2009 07:10 PM
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Re: Evolution vs creation ID question
if they say it's wrong to talk about it
why did you bring it up?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/14/2009 07:12 PM
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Re: Evolution vs creation ID question
if they say it's wrong to talk about it
why did you bring it up?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 592399


not wrong to talk about it, just as sensible as talking about it as nibiru (ie not true). Plus I am not catholic.
Jdd

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01/14/2009 07:12 PM
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Re: Evolution vs creation ID question
First you have to differentiate between the ID school and the fundamentalist Christian creationist movement. There are dramatic philosophical differences between the two, in some cases.

90% of the worlds 900 million Hindus believe in One God (not millions of gods, as many westerners mistakenly say). They certainly believe in Intelligent Design.

They do not, however, believe in Adam and Eve and the Garden, or that the entire material creation was put together 6,000 years ago, and it's the only one of its kind.

In the realm of the Evolution vs. Creationism debate, you mostly have the fundamentalist Christians on the Creationism side, and the science advocates on the Evolution side.

If you study the court case transcripts and many academic articles, you'll find that the Creationists have been borrowing arguments against Darwinist evolution from the non-Christian ID folks -- the Hindus -- because our arguments are extremely well developed, both philosophically and scientifically. The Christians take advantage of them, but leave out the 'sticky parts' they can't deal with.

Also important to note that even the ID believing Eastern regligions folks acknowledge that a certain degree of evolutionary theory is correct. They just explain it in the context of karma, which rounds it out to a proper understanding.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 593098
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01/14/2009 07:14 PM
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Re: Evolution vs creation ID question
I was just wondering how the creationist justify there views when they contradict the highest earthly christian authority, as well as all logical reasoning.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 592953
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01/14/2009 07:22 PM
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Re: Evolution vs creation ID question
The roman empire IS NOT christian.

Factor in marxism in eu.

The roman empire uses marxism as a counter-reformation against bible believing protestantism. Marxism in their mandatory schools and controlled media uses evolution for this counter-reformation.

Still the current pope in fact said he did not believe in evolution.

BERLIN — Benedict XVI, in his first extended reflections on evolution published as pope, says that Darwin's theory cannot be finally proven and that science has unnecessarily narrowed humanity's view of creation.
[link to www.usatoday.com]

Since then his opinion is fully in the theistic evolution camp.

Theistic evolution is impossible. Either creation happened as it says in the bible or there is no biblical God who came to earth as Jesus.
Anonymous Coward
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01/14/2009 07:29 PM
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Re: Evolution vs creation ID question
Hindus are just eastern Catholics. They have the same beliefs, the objects and icons have just been renamed, as with Islam. It is all Mythraism. Christianity on the other hand is something completely different.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 592953
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01/14/2009 07:31 PM
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Re: Evolution vs creation ID question
[link to www.youtube.com]
[link to www.youtube.com]
[link to www.youtube.com]
[link to www.youtube.com]
[link to www.youtube.com]
[link to www.youtube.com]
[link to www.youtube.com]
[link to www.youtube.com]
[link to www.youtube.com]
[link to www.youtube.com]
[link to www.youtube.com]
[link to www.youtube.com]

A fascinating comparison of ancient religious symbolism. History of the religion of the Roman Empire from Babylon to present.
Anonymous Coward
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01/14/2009 07:31 PM
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Re: Evolution vs creation ID question
Hindus are just eastern Catholics. They have the same beliefs, the objects and icons have just been renamed, as with Islam. It is all Mythraism. Christianity on the other hand is something completely different.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 592953



You care to explain , Hindus have millions of demigods where does this tie in to the catholic faith ?
Anonymous Coward
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01/14/2009 07:32 PM
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Re: Evolution vs creation ID question
The roman empire IS NOT christian.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 592953


Didn't the Romans feed Christians to the lions?
Anonymous Coward
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01/14/2009 07:33 PM
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Re: Evolution vs creation ID question
if they say it's wrong to talk about it
why did you bring it up?


not wrong to talk about it, just as sensible as talking about it as nibiru (ie not true). Plus I am not catholic.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 593098

and most christians are not catholics
Anonymous Coward
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01/14/2009 07:34 PM
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Re: Evolution vs creation ID question
I was just wondering how the creationist justify there views when they contradict the highest earthly christian authority, as well as all logical reasoning.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 593098

we aren't catholics
so, we don't view the Pope as the highest authority of anything
if the catholics do that, that is their business
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 592953
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01/14/2009 07:34 PM
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Re: Evolution vs creation ID question
Hindus are just eastern Catholics. They have the same beliefs, the objects and icons have just been renamed, as with Islam. It is all Mythraism. Christianity on the other hand is something completely different.



You care to explain , Hindus have millions of demigods where does this tie in to the catholic faith ?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 592800


It was new to me too. That video series details the similarities. I didn't take very good notes, but it was striking. Obviously Hindu predates Catholicism. It all connects to Babylon and Mythraism.
Anonymous Coward
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01/14/2009 07:35 PM
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Re: Evolution vs creation ID question
Hindus are just eastern Catholics. They have the same beliefs, the objects and icons have just been renamed, as with Islam. It is all Mythraism. Christianity on the other hand is something completely different.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 592953

christianity is nothing
because it means nothing
people of many contradicting beliefs call themselves "christians"
george_glass

User ID: 520349
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01/14/2009 07:35 PM
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Re: Evolution vs creation ID question
Only idiots worry about what religion says.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 592936

Only idiots worry about what religion says.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 592936

Only idiots worry about what religion says.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 592936

Only idiots worry about what religion says.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 592936

Only idiots worry about what religion says.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 592936

Only idiots worry about what religion says.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 592936

Only idiots worry about what religion says.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 592936

Only idiots worry about what religion says.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 592936

Only idiots worry about what religion says.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 592936

Only idiots worry about what religion says.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 592936

Man created gods in HIS image.
Anonymous Coward
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01/14/2009 07:36 PM
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Re: Evolution vs creation ID question
The roman empire IS NOT christian.



Didn't the Romans feed Christians to the lions?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 405098

The Roman Empire morphed into the Roman Catholic Church when the Emperor Constantine forced pagans to convert to Roman Catholicism
Anonymous Coward
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01/14/2009 07:37 PM
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Re: Evolution vs creation ID question
Hindus are just eastern Catholics. They have the same beliefs, the objects and icons have just been renamed, as with Islam. It is all Mythraism. Christianity on the other hand is something completely different.



You care to explain , Hindus have millions of demigods where does this tie in to the catholic faith ?


It was new to me too. That video series details the similarities. I didn't take very good notes, but it was striking. Obviously Hindu predates Catholicism. It all connects to Babylon and Mythraism.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 592953

catholics venerate saints
which would correlate with the many gods of hinduism
the New Testament does not support this view
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 592953
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01/14/2009 07:38 PM
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Re: Evolution vs creation ID question
The roman empire IS NOT christian.



Didn't the Romans feed Christians to the lions?

The Roman Empire morphed into the Roman Catholic Church when the Emperor Constantine forced pagans to convert to Roman Catholicism
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 592399


I think he forced the christians to become pagans. lol
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 403381
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01/14/2009 07:40 PM
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Re: Evolution vs creation ID question
I was just wondering how the creationist justify there views when they contradict the highest earthly christian authority, as well as all logical reasoning.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 593098

Firstly have you ever seen anything that was not created including in a lab?.Secondly you have twisted the words of the pope not even putting a link.thirdly.. do not assume the pope is everybody's leader.Forthly my grammer suks.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 592800
United Kingdom
01/14/2009 07:43 PM
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Re: Evolution vs creation ID question
Hindus are just eastern Catholics. They have the same beliefs, the objects and icons have just been renamed, as with Islam. It is all Mythraism. Christianity on the other hand is something completely different.



You care to explain , Hindus have millions of demigods where does this tie in to the catholic faith ?


It was new to me too. That video series details the similarities. I didn't take very good notes, but it was striking. Obviously Hindu predates Catholicism. It all connects to Babylon and Mythraism.

catholics venerate saints
which would correlate with the many gods of hinduism
the New Testament does not support this view
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 592399



Thats different, hindus venerate saints, demigods are different, demigods are like a heavenly government each one has a particular role within the material creation, and are worshipped accordingly.
george_glass

User ID: 520349
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01/14/2009 07:44 PM
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Re: Evolution vs creation ID question
I was just wondering how the creationist justify there views when they contradict the highest earthly christian authority, as well as all logical reasoning.

Firstly have you ever seen anything that was not created including in a lab?.Secondly you have twisted the words of the pope not even putting a link.thirdly.. do not assume the pope is everybody's leader.Forthly my grammer suks.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 403381

"fifthly" use fucking google moron.

[link to www.livescience.com]

September 16th, 2008
Author Robert Roy Britt
» Vatican: Evolution is Fine

When people argue about evolution vs. creationism (or the disingenuous alternative to creationism called “intelligent design”) it often comes off as a debate between science and religion.

This is the case with some conservative Protestants in the United States. However, the Catholic Church has made it clear that it has no problem with evolution.

Archbishop Gianfranco Ravasi, the Vatican’s culture minister, said today that the theory of evolution is compatible with the Bible. The Vatican discourages literal interpretations of the Bible, including the literal interpretation of creationism that is at odds with the very solid scientific theory of evolution.

School districts in many U.S. states have wrestled with whether or not to teach intelligent design, which has no basis in science whatsoever, as an alternative to evolution in science classes. Scientists argue that you have to teach science in a science class, and keep religion (and fantasy ideas, like intelligent design) out of science class. The debate crept into national politics recently with reports that vice-presidential candidate Sarah Palin might be a creationist. Meanwhile, a recent Pew survey found that for the first time in more than a decade, a majority of Americans think religious organizations should stay out of politics.

Ravasi said it this way: Creationism belongs to the “strictly theological sphere” and could not be used “ideologically in science.” According to Reuters, however, no apologies are forthcoming for Charles Darwin.

(Worth noting here that the Vatican’s chief astronomer said earlier this year that believing in aliens does not contradict faith in God.)
Man created gods in HIS image.
Anonymous Coward
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01/14/2009 07:46 PM
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Re: Evolution vs creation ID question
For those who believe in intellegent design and creationism.

Does it not bother you that the current pope and the two before him have gone on record stating that evolution is entirely consistant with gods work and that the evidence for it is so overwhelming that they also say that talk of creationism or intellegent design is plainly wrong.

Most christians are catholic and therefore most accept evolution. Its only in america that ID or creationism is even mentioned. It is never even discussed in europe except in reference to the religious right of america.

Or are they part of a conspiracy???
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 593098



No, it doesn't bother me and yes, I think the catholic leadership is part of the conspiracy. No hard feelings for the catholic followers though, they are simply misled.
Anonymous Coward
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01/14/2009 07:47 PM
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Re: Evolution vs creation ID question
Did you or the Pope even read Genesis ? GOD commanded the land to produce plants.It does Not say anywhere GOD created ants himself.The land did so it is possible some sort of evolution occured .None of that dinosaur become a chicken "theory"Because evolution is not a science its just a theory.
george_glass

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01/14/2009 07:51 PM
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Re: Evolution vs creation ID question
Did you or the Pope even read Genesis ? GOD commanded the land to produce plants.It does Not say anywhere GOD created ants himself.The land did so it is possible some sort of evolution occured .None of that dinosaur become a chicken "theory"Because evolution is not a science its just a theory.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 403381

"Archbishop Gianfranco Ravasi, the Vatican’s culture minister, said today that the theory of evolution is compatible with the Bible. The Vatican discourages literal interpretations of the Bible, including the literal interpretation of creationism that is at odds with the very solid scientific theory of evolution."







have you ever read anything other than the bible?
Man created gods in HIS image.
Anonymous Coward
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01/14/2009 07:51 PM
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Re: Evolution vs creation ID question
christianity is nothing
because it means nothing
people of many contradicting beliefs call themselves "christians"
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 592399


Yes they do, but if they have other gods then they are not christian. The first commandment of God is to have no other gods.

"Christianity is nothing" is like saying science and history are nothing. One day you will be a nothing.
Anonymous Coward
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01/14/2009 07:52 PM
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Re: Evolution vs creation ID question
Evolution is fantasy masquerading as science that any intelligent high schooler could completely demolish within a few minutes of the application of basic logic. It is so utterly and completely flawed at its very core that if can only be viewed as a pseudo-scientific variant of a religious self aggrandizing doctrine like "indulgences" all dressed up with no where to go except for pompous overeducated fools to pump into the minds of gulllible students for the simple reason that it makes them feel more powerful than God. Its the "wack" of our present age. A flat earth theory that has become so widely accepted that its become a political power base for an army of uselful diots within the academic world kellbent on obtaining sick pleasure in a medieval inquisition of perceived creationist heretics. Evolution has a place in the Weekly Wolrd News but not in science texts.
Anonymous Coward
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01/14/2009 07:58 PM
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Re: Evolution vs creation ID question
I was just wondering how the creationist justify there views when they contradict the highest earthly christian authority, as well as all logical reasoning.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 593098



The pope certainly isn't considered to be "the highest earthly christian authority" to a bible believer.

I'd call him the most visible bible perverter.

Don't mean to sound so harsh, but that is the truth.

Why was America formed? It was formed by bible believers who wanted to get away from all that.

That is why America to this day has the largest concentration of bible literalists in the world.
Anonymous Coward
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01/14/2009 08:07 PM
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Re: Evolution vs creation ID question
The roman empire IS NOT christian.



Didn't the Romans feed Christians to the lions?

The Roman Empire morphed into the Roman Catholic Church when the Emperor Constantine forced pagans to convert to Roman Catholicism


I think he forced the christians to become pagans. lol
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 592953

it's called syncretism
when different "faiths" merge