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Obama's orders leave framework of torture, indefinite detention intact

 
Anonymous Coward
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01/28/2009 01:16 AM
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Obama's orders leave framework of torture, indefinite detention intact
By Tom Eley
23 January 2009

On Thursday, President Barack Obama issued executive orders mandating the closure of the Guantánamo Bay prison camp in a year’s time, requiring that Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and military personnel follow the Army Field Manual’s prohibitions on torture, and closing secret CIA prisons overseas.

While the media is portraying these orders as a repudiation of the detention and interrogation policies of the Bush administration, they actually change little. They essentially represent a public relations effort to refurbish the image of the United States abroad after years of torture and extralegal detentions and shield high-ranking American officials from potential criminal prosecution.

In cowardly fashion, Obama staged his signing of the orders in a manner aimed at placating the political right and defenders of Guantánamo and torture and underscoring his intention to continue the Bush administration’s “war on terror.” He was flanked by 16 retired generals and admirals who have pushed for the closure of the prison camp in Cuba on the grounds that it impedes the prosecution of the global “war” and reiterated in his own remarks his determination to continue the basic political framework of the Bush administration’s foreign policy.

The continuation of the ideological pretext for wars of aggression and attacks on democratic rights ensures that the police state infrastructure erected under the Bush administration will remain intact. This is further reinforced by Obama’s assurances that his administration will not investigate or prosecute those officials—including Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Alberto Gonzales and others—who were responsible for the policies of torture and illegal detention.

The orders signed by Obama do not undo the Bush administration’s attacks on constitutional and international law. They do not challenge the supposed right of the president to unilaterally imprison any individual, without trial and without charges, by declaring him to be an “enemy combatant.” Nor do they end the procedure known as “extraordinary rendition,” by which the United States during the Bush years kidnapped alleged terrorists and shipped them to foreign countries or secret CIA prisons outside the US, where they were subjected to torture.

They do not affect the hundreds of prisoners—600 at the Bagram prison camp in Afghanistan alone—incarcerated beyond the barbed wire of Guantánamo. If and when Guantánamo is closed, the US government will simply ship alleged terrorists caught up its international dragnet to other American-run prison camps.

On the question of so-called “harsh interrogation techniques,” i.e., torture, Obama’s orders leave room for their continuation. White House Counsel Gregory Craig told reporters the administration was prepared to take into account demands from the CIA that such methods be allowed. Obama announced the creation of a task force that will consider new interrogation methods beyond those sanctioned by the Army Field Manual, which now accepts 19 forms of interrogation, as well as the practice of extraordinary rendition.

Retired Admiral Dennis Blair, Obama’s nominee for director of national intelligence, told a Senate confirmation hearing that the Army Field Manual would itself be changed, potentially allowing new forms of harsh interrogation, but that such changes would be kept secret.

Obama also announced a second task force that is to consider the fate of the 245 detainees remaining at Guantánamo. Earlier this week he suspended the military commission procedures at the prison camp, but has not abolished the military commissions themselves.

The new administration has ruled out the only constitutional remedy for those who have been held under barbaric conditions, without due process, for years—either releasing them or giving them a speedy trial in a civilian court, with all of the accompanying legal protections and guarantees. There has been a great deal of speculation that the administration may support the establishment of a special National Security Court within the civilian court system to try Guantánamo prisoners and other alleged terrorists. This would represent yet another attack on civil liberties, setting up a drumhead court system to railroad those charged with terrorism—something that could in future be used to repress political opposition.

According to NBC Nightly News on Thursday, the administration is considering keeping some 20 Guantánamo detainees, including the five alleged 9/11 conspirators currently facing military commission trials, imprisoned indefinitely without charges in a military brig within the US.

Commentators have noted that the Obama administration wants to prevent noncitizens detained as terrorists from being able to exercise habeas corpus rights.

Two separate measures taken Tuesday and Thursday by Obama point to a further major consideration behind his moves to close Guantánamo and finesse the issue of torture. On Thursday the administration requested a stay in the habeas corpus appeal to the Supreme Court by the only alleged enemy combatant now held on US soil—Ali al-Marri, of Qatar, whom Obama has called “dangerous.” Al-Marri’s lawyers are challenging the right of the president to arrest and jail individuals by declaring them enemy combatants, and it was expected that the Supreme Court’s hearing of the appeal would force Obama to reveal his position on the issue.

This followed Tuesday’s request for a stay from the Federal District Court in Washington in similar appeals that could affect the cases of more than 200 Guantánamo prisoners.

Thus, the immediate effect of the new administration’s moves is to halt civilian trials that could prove immensely damaging to the government by revealing systematic torture of the detainees and could potentially entangle high government officials.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/28/2009 01:32 AM
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Re: Obama's orders leave framework of torture, indefinite detention intact
Well, I guess you don't get it..........
entropy

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01/28/2009 01:34 AM
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Re: Obama's orders leave framework of torture, indefinite detention intact
I get it now post the link,...
my re-imaging(cover)
of "Piggies" (The Beatles)
and "Lights in the Sky" (Nine Inch Nails)
is available to listen to now. Won't cost you a dime. Click below to hear it.


[link to www.myspace.com]

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aSBhbSB5b3VyIHNhdmlvcg0KaSBhbSBjb3JydXB0aW9uDQppIGFtIHRoZSB​hbmdlbA0Kb2YgeW91ciBkZXN0cnVjdGlvbg0KaSBhbSBwZXJ2ZXJzaW9uDQpz​ZWNyZXQgZGVzaXJlDQppIGFtIHlvdXIgZnV0dXJlDQpzd2FsbG93ZWQgdXAga​W4gZmlyZQ==
Anonymous Coward
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01/28/2009 01:37 AM
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Re: Obama's orders leave framework of torture, indefinite detention intact
yeah a link would be really helpful
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/28/2009 01:39 AM
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Re: Obama's orders leave framework of torture, indefinite detention intact
[link to www.wsws.org]
Anonymous Coward
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01/28/2009 01:48 AM
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Re: Obama's orders leave framework of torture, indefinite detention intact
I thought the secret prisons were to be closed.

this story disputes that.

which is it?
entropy

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01/28/2009 01:49 AM
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Re: Obama's orders leave framework of torture, indefinite detention intact
bsflag
my re-imaging(cover)
of "Piggies" (The Beatles)
and "Lights in the Sky" (Nine Inch Nails)
is available to listen to now. Won't cost you a dime. Click below to hear it.


[link to www.myspace.com]

Over 1 Million plays, Most popular NIN Remix / Re imaging artist on myspace. I keep it separate:

[link to www.myspace.com]

archive:
[link to www.vampirefreaks.com]

Thanks.
[link to www.facebook.com]

aSBhbSB5b3VyIHNhdmlvcg0KaSBhbSBjb3JydXB0aW9uDQppIGFtIHRoZSB​hbmdlbA0Kb2YgeW91ciBkZXN0cnVjdGlvbg0KaSBhbSBwZXJ2ZXJzaW9uDQpz​ZWNyZXQgZGVzaXJlDQppIGFtIHlvdXIgZnV0dXJlDQpzd2FsbG93ZWQgdXAga​W4gZmlyZQ==
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/28/2009 01:51 AM
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Re: Obama's orders leave framework of torture, indefinite detention intact
bsflag
 Quoting: entropy

antibs
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 512968
United States
01/28/2009 01:57 AM
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Re: Obama's orders leave framework of torture, indefinite detention intact
bsflag

antibs
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 564739


The OP is posting a BS flag?
entropy

User ID: 572040
United States
01/28/2009 01:59 AM
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Re: Obama's orders leave framework of torture, indefinite detention intact
bsflag

antibs


The OP is posting a BS flag?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 512968

No but might as well be. Do some research on the link and who operates the site at whois.
my re-imaging(cover)
of "Piggies" (The Beatles)
and "Lights in the Sky" (Nine Inch Nails)
is available to listen to now. Won't cost you a dime. Click below to hear it.


[link to www.myspace.com]

Over 1 Million plays, Most popular NIN Remix / Re imaging artist on myspace. I keep it separate:

[link to www.myspace.com]

archive:
[link to www.vampirefreaks.com]

Thanks.
[link to www.facebook.com]

aSBhbSB5b3VyIHNhdmlvcg0KaSBhbSBjb3JydXB0aW9uDQppIGFtIHRoZSB​hbmdlbA0Kb2YgeW91ciBkZXN0cnVjdGlvbg0KaSBhbSBwZXJ2ZXJzaW9uDQpz​ZWNyZXQgZGVzaXJlDQppIGFtIHlvdXIgZnV0dXJlDQpzd2FsbG93ZWQgdXAga​W4gZmlyZQ==
Anonymous Coward
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01/28/2009 02:01 AM
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Re: Obama's orders leave framework of torture, indefinite detention intact
yeah that site is BS

I was hoping for a reputable site for some dirt on Obama.

But the world socialist web site ?

come on!

GTFOOH
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 564739
United States
01/28/2009 02:04 AM
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Re: Obama's orders leave framework of torture, indefinite detention intact
yeah that site is BS

I was hoping for a reputable site for some dirt on Obama.

But the world socialist web site ?

come on!

GTFOOH
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 602252

Yeah I laughed at that too. What is the big O up to though?
entropy

User ID: 572040
United States
01/28/2009 02:06 AM
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Re: Obama's orders leave framework of torture, indefinite detention intact
yeah that site is BS

I was hoping for a reputable site for some dirt on Obama.

But the world socialist web site ?

come on!

GTFOOH
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 602252

:depres2:
my re-imaging(cover)
of "Piggies" (The Beatles)
and "Lights in the Sky" (Nine Inch Nails)
is available to listen to now. Won't cost you a dime. Click below to hear it.


[link to www.myspace.com]

Over 1 Million plays, Most popular NIN Remix / Re imaging artist on myspace. I keep it separate:

[link to www.myspace.com]

archive:
[link to www.vampirefreaks.com]

Thanks.
[link to www.facebook.com]

aSBhbSB5b3VyIHNhdmlvcg0KaSBhbSBjb3JydXB0aW9uDQppIGFtIHRoZSB​hbmdlbA0Kb2YgeW91ciBkZXN0cnVjdGlvbg0KaSBhbSBwZXJ2ZXJzaW9uDQpz​ZWNyZXQgZGVzaXJlDQppIGFtIHlvdXIgZnV0dXJlDQpzd2FsbG93ZWQgdXAga​W4gZmlyZQ==
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 602252
United States
01/28/2009 02:11 AM
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Re: Obama's orders leave framework of torture, indefinite detention intact
yeah that site is BS

I was hoping for a reputable site for some dirt on Obama.

But the world socialist web site ?

come on!

GTFOOH

Yeah I laughed at that too. What is the big O up to though?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 564739



It's just political grandstanding.

I have no doubt that if a serious situation arose that BHO would no doubt use torture to extract intel from the enemy.
Bluebird

User ID: 270054
United States
01/28/2009 02:12 AM
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Re: Obama's orders leave framework of torture, indefinite detention intact
[link to www.newsweek.com]

A Loophole In the Rules

Publicly at least, President Obama has made a clean break with his predecessor's controversial counterterrorism policies, but in private the new administration is leaving itself some wiggle room. A day before Obama signed executive orders closing Guantánamo Bay and banning torture, the White House's top lawyer privately indicated to Congress that the new president reserved the right to ignore his own (and any other president's) executive orders. In a closed-door appearance before the Senate intelligence committee, White House counsel Gregory Craig was asked whether the president was required by law to follow executive orders. According to people familiar with his remarks, who asked for anonymity when discussing a private meeting, Craig answered that the administration did not believe he was. The implication: in a national-security crisis, Obama could deviate from his own rules. A White House official said that Craig's remarks were being "mischaracterized."

Some Capitol Hill sources and intel officials said Craig's private remarks constituted a big loophole in new guidelines, one that would allow Obama to behave much like President Bush. "I don't think there's a really big change, sub rosa," said one veteran undercover spy. Intel sources cautioned that Craig's declaration does not mean Obama plans to issue secret orders that would contradict his public anti-torture stance. (During his confirmation hearing, Dennis Blair, Obama's new intel czar, said emphatically that there would be no torture "on my watch.") What it probably means in practice, the spy said, is that Obama could, in a dire emergency, issue a secret presidential "finding" instructing the CIA or another agency to overstep boundaries of public policy. But given the obloquy they have endured for following Bush's orders on interrogations and detentions, said another intel insider, CIA officials might resist any attempts by Obama to issue classified operational orders that contradict his official policies. "They don't want to be asked to do something in secret which has been publicly declared taboo," the insider said.


---------


It doesn't matter what the source is, the Obama fanatics won't believe it no matter the source.

Is Newsweek good enough for you?

No, nothing would be because you prefer to believe whatever you like about Obama and ignore the truth.


He clearly left open the right to specifically order torture should HE deem it the correct method of interrogation.

But go back to sleep. . . .he is the Messiah.


.
One of the most important aspects of conspiracy theories is being able to discern when there isn't one.

Oh yeah, like you'd understand anyway.

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?. . .J. Handy
Anonymous Coward
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United States
01/28/2009 03:08 AM
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Re: Obama's orders leave framework of torture, indefinite detention intact
Change = Window Dressing

Obama also told Citigroup to "fix it", regarding the 50 million dollar jet they were buying with taxpayer bailout money. What Obama and the press neglected to say is that the bailout legislation, which Obama voted for, gives ZERO oversight to the gov't, and all rights to the banksters. I'm sure Obama just told them not be so flashy about the jet and just to quietly deposit the funds into their personal, offshore, accounts.
entropy

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01/28/2009 03:17 AM
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Re: Obama's orders leave framework of torture, indefinite detention intact
You haters look up the separation of powers and powers of lobbyists in America and get back to me. I got some things to throw down my throat.
my re-imaging(cover)
of "Piggies" (The Beatles)
and "Lights in the Sky" (Nine Inch Nails)
is available to listen to now. Won't cost you a dime. Click below to hear it.


[link to www.myspace.com]

Over 1 Million plays, Most popular NIN Remix / Re imaging artist on myspace. I keep it separate:

[link to www.myspace.com]

archive:
[link to www.vampirefreaks.com]

Thanks.
[link to www.facebook.com]

aSBhbSB5b3VyIHNhdmlvcg0KaSBhbSBjb3JydXB0aW9uDQppIGFtIHRoZSB​hbmdlbA0Kb2YgeW91ciBkZXN0cnVjdGlvbg0KaSBhbSBwZXJ2ZXJzaW9uDQpz​ZWNyZXQgZGVzaXJlDQppIGFtIHlvdXIgZnV0dXJlDQpzd2FsbG93ZWQgdXAga​W4gZmlyZQ==
Anonymous Coward
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Netherlands
01/28/2009 03:34 AM
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Re: Obama's orders leave framework of torture, indefinite detention intact
bump
Anonymous Coward
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Netherlands
01/28/2009 04:05 AM
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Re: Obama's orders leave framework of torture, indefinite detention intact
bump bump bump
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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United States
01/28/2009 11:26 PM
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Re: Obama's orders leave framework of torture, indefinite detention intact
You haters look up the separation of powers and powers of lobbyists in America and get back to me. I got some things to throw down my throat.
 Quoting: entropy

OK, lol
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 600855
United States
01/29/2009 11:47 AM
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Re: Obama's orders leave framework of torture, indefinite detention intact
[link to www.newsweek.com]

A Loophole In the Rules

Publicly at least, President Obama has made a clean break with his predecessor's controversial counterterrorism policies, but in private the new administration is leaving itself some wiggle room. A day before Obama signed executive orders closing Guantánamo Bay and banning torture, the White House's top lawyer privately indicated to Congress that the new president reserved the right to ignore his own (and any other president's) executive orders. In a closed-door appearance before the Senate intelligence committee, White House counsel Gregory Craig was asked whether the president was required by law to follow executive orders. According to people familiar with his remarks, who asked for anonymity when discussing a private meeting, Craig answered that the administration did not believe he was. The implication: in a national-security crisis, Obama could deviate from his own rules. A White House official said that Craig's remarks were being "mischaracterized."

Some Capitol Hill sources and intel officials said Craig's private remarks constituted a big loophole in new guidelines, one that would allow Obama to behave much like President Bush. "I don't think there's a really big change, sub rosa," said one veteran undercover spy. Intel sources cautioned that Craig's declaration does not mean Obama plans to issue secret orders that would contradict his public anti-torture stance. (During his confirmation hearing, Dennis Blair, Obama's new intel czar, said emphatically that there would be no torture "on my watch.") What it probably means in practice, the spy said, is that Obama could, in a dire emergency, issue a secret presidential "finding" instructing the CIA or another agency to overstep boundaries of public policy. But given the obloquy they have endured for following Bush's orders on interrogations and detentions, said another intel insider, CIA officials might resist any attempts by Obama to issue classified operational orders that contradict his official policies. "They don't want to be asked to do something in secret which has been publicly declared taboo," the insider said.


---------


It doesn't matter what the source is, the Obama fanatics won't believe it no matter the source.

Is Newsweek good enough for you?

No, nothing would be because you prefer to believe whatever you like about Obama and ignore the truth.


He clearly left open the right to specifically order torture should HE deem it the correct method of interrogation.

But go back to sleep. . . .he is the Messiah.


.
 Quoting: Bluebird

You are so right.





GLP