Disinformation Agents Tactics in Online Forums: ideas, input, experiences and how to defeat them. Please share to help us all find the truth. | |
joejoe (OP) J to the 3rd User ID: 693047 Switzerland 06/02/2009 03:02 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Duncan Kunz User ID: 328931 United States 06/02/2009 03:06 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Disinformation Agents Tactics in Online Forums: ideas, input, experiences and how to defeat them. Please share to help us all find the truth. Seems to me that you're equating "disinformation" as someone who doesn't share your ideas or beliefs. It doesn't matter whether he calls you an idiot, or uses carefully-reasoned mathematics to support his position; if he disagrees with you, it's "disinformation". Is that it? Where's the EVIDENCE, Jim? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 605143 United States 06/02/2009 03:08 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Disinformation Agents Tactics in Online Forums: ideas, input, experiences and how to defeat them. Please share to help us all find the truth. I'm an information agent so I use all those tactics also. Frankly, you must spend your life researching everything you can so you can be selective as to what is the truth. Or you can pay for your information. This method is usually called "buy my book". |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 515900 Netherlands 06/02/2009 03:08 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 693277 United States 06/02/2009 03:12 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Disinformation Agents Tactics in Online Forums: ideas, input, experiences and how to defeat them. Please share to help us all find the truth. Seems to me that you're equating "disinformation" as someone who doesn't share your ideas or beliefs. Quoting: Duncan KunzIt doesn't matter whether he calls you an idiot, or uses carefully-reasoned mathematics to support his position; if he disagrees with you, it's "disinformation". Is that it? It's about you and you showed up within minutes to prove it. You're fired for being too obvious. |
joejoe (OP) J to the 3rd User ID: 693047 Switzerland 06/02/2009 03:15 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Disinformation Agents Tactics in Online Forums: ideas, input, experiences and how to defeat them. Please share to help us all find the truth. Seems to me that you're equating "disinformation" as someone who doesn't share your ideas or beliefs. Quoting: Duncan KunzIt doesn't matter whether he calls you an idiot, or uses carefully-reasoned mathematics to support his position; if he disagrees with you, it's "disinformation". Is that it? no, not in the slightest. Can we admit that disinformation agents exist? Or have I already lost you there? . . No clotshot, NEVER! . Mad as hell! . |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 373696 United States 06/02/2009 03:20 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Disinformation Agents Tactics in Online Forums: ideas, input, experiences and how to defeat them. Please share to help us all find the truth. Seems to me that you're equating "disinformation" as someone who doesn't share your ideas or beliefs. Quoting: joejoeIt doesn't matter whether he calls you an idiot, or uses carefully-reasoned mathematics to support his position; if he disagrees with you, it's "disinformation". Is that it? no, not in the slightest. Can we admit that disinformation agents exist? Or have I already lost you there? I've never seen evidence that they exist, just people disagreeing, sometimes with good reasons, sometimes not. Do you have evidence other than what's in your original post? |
Sleepless User ID: 692987 United Kingdom 06/02/2009 03:23 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Disinformation Agents Tactics in Online Forums: ideas, input, experiences and how to defeat them. Please share to help us all find the truth. this kind of thing needs to be pinned here forever . I had to remove my Signature As it seems to have confused some people....It Don't take much for that round here .. |
9teen.47™ User ID: 693270 United Kingdom 06/02/2009 03:24 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Disinformation Agents Tactics in Online Forums: ideas, input, experiences and how to defeat them. Please share to help us all find the truth. joejoe, I don't worry about it. When Duncan Kunz and his tag team come onto one of my Chemtrail or other threads I use them. People love a good fight and I give it to em. Zec 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it. Psa 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, [and] all the nations that forget God. Jer 6:2 I have likened the daughter of Zion to a comely and delicate [woman]. STOCK UP NOW. You should have at least 6 months worth of basics for every member of your household. Stay away from crowds when trouble starts, do not forget water storage, tobacco is worth more than gold or silver, and be kind to hungry children. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 690611 United States 06/02/2009 03:24 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Disinformation Agents Tactics in Online Forums: ideas, input, experiences and how to defeat them. Please share to help us all find the truth. Seems to me that you're equating "disinformation" as someone who doesn't share your ideas or beliefs. Quoting: Duncan KunzIt doesn't matter whether he calls you an idiot, or uses carefully-reasoned mathematics to support his position; if he disagrees with you, it's "disinformation". Is that it? If it smells like shit, and looks like shit.... then it's probably..... |
noKnothing~ User ID: 631297 United States 06/02/2009 03:26 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 686649 United States 06/02/2009 03:26 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
joejoe (OP) J to the 3rd User ID: 693047 Switzerland 06/02/2009 03:26 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Disinformation Agents Tactics in Online Forums: ideas, input, experiences and how to defeat them. Please share to help us all find the truth. Seems to me that you're equating "disinformation" as someone who doesn't share your ideas or beliefs. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 373696It doesn't matter whether he calls you an idiot, or uses carefully-reasoned mathematics to support his position; if he disagrees with you, it's "disinformation". Is that it? no, not in the slightest. Can we admit that disinformation agents exist? Or have I already lost you there? I've never seen evidence that they exist, just people disagreeing, sometimes with good reasons, sometimes not. Do you have evidence other than what's in your original post? I have extensively try to document my experience in the post. As far as additional information, no, but how about this. go to a main stream forum, post a thread about 911 truth that you can well source with links. For instance, take this post as an example: "9/11 Panel Suspected Deception by Pentagon" There seem to be holes in the official 9/11 story since the The 911 commission said themselves that they were deceived by the pentagon:" [link to www.washingtonpost.com] And then, when posters come back with ad hominem and straw man attacks, you will see what I mean. . . No clotshot, NEVER! . Mad as hell! . |
AnTiSoShAL User ID: 420394 United States 06/02/2009 03:27 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Disinformation Agents Tactics in Online Forums: ideas, input, experiences and how to defeat them. Please share to help us all find the truth. Seems to me that you're equating "disinformation" as someone who doesn't share your ideas or beliefs. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 693277It doesn't matter whether he calls you an idiot, or uses carefully-reasoned mathematics to support his position; if he disagrees with you, it's "disinformation". Is that it? It's about you and you showed up within minutes to prove it. You're fired for being too obvious. I would have to agree with Menow. You aren't discussing the idea of a disinformation agent as much as you are simply trying to create a current of belief in your ideas by turning those who disagree with you into the enemy. MOST of the disinformation on here, and that is MOST of the information here in general, is just created for the lulz of those lurking and or participating. It just entertains them to lead gullible people to leaps of faith and credulity with little or no logic. The reality is the conspiracy fringe is so fractured and self destructive that no one really needs to methodically and systematically attack it anymore. The internet has made that Passe. When conspiracies were about actual face to face meetings and public protest, disinformation was extremely powerful and common. Protests and word of mouth were powerful, and when they got on TV, things changed and people got scared. With the advent of the internet, even the craziest loner in his remote basement has the same vocal power as you and I. The end result is competing realities. mythologies and personalities prevent almost ANY single idea from catching on to any dangerous amount. Even ideas that are similar become battle grounds as each faction claims to know "the truth". The general public views the conspiracy crowd as freakish outcasts. You all destroy yourselves trying so hard to be the one with the truth. The only real dis-info going on in places like this is the occasional poking and prodding to keep the community riled up like competing ant colonies. A couple of carefully crafted leaks that contradict each other but seem credible, and once more the factions call each other names and look like complete loons to the rest of the world. If we ever got together and coherently demanded actual science and evidence and disclosure on UFO's, Bank Fraud and a whole world of real issues, we might make some progress. As long as tomorrow there are 5 new woowoos claiming to be visited by aliens claiming to all have contradicting incontestable truths about insanity like Niburu, Chemtrails and the sun and moon randomly moving around that only they can see, then nothing will happen. As long as people keep buying into cults of personality and need and let them overpower basic science and common sense in exchange for a sense of belonging, then you are all your own dis-information agents. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 20912 United States 06/02/2009 03:28 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Disinformation Agents Tactics in Online Forums: ideas, input, experiences and how to defeat them. Please share to help us all find the truth. They are paid to infiltrate message boards and groups at administrative levels. And cause disturbances and problems. Such as banning mass amounts of people from the discussion and censoring what they say. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 548017 United States 06/02/2009 03:29 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Disinformation Agents Tactics in Online Forums: ideas, input, experiences and how to defeat them. Please share to help us all find the truth. 2. The disinfo. agents often seem to be experts in the field they are debating, . Quoting: Anonymous Coward 693047Maybe you're just trying to argue with people who are better informed than you. |
joejoe (OP) J to the 3rd User ID: 693047 Switzerland 06/02/2009 03:32 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Disinformation Agents Tactics in Online Forums: ideas, input, experiences and how to defeat them. Please share to help us all find the truth. 2. The disinfo. agents often seem to be experts in the field they are debating, . Quoting: Anonymous Coward 548017Maybe you're just trying to argue with people who are better informed than you. i was quite well informed about the information I was discussing, and using documented main stream sources, peer reviewed scientific papers, and logical arguments. It's a bit sad that even on a conspiracy website like GLP, that I have to try to prove that the possibility that disinfo. agents actually exist, no? . . No clotshot, NEVER! . Mad as hell! . |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 548017 United States 06/02/2009 03:35 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Disinformation Agents Tactics in Online Forums: ideas, input, experiences and how to defeat them. Please share to help us all find the truth. As long as tomorrow there are 5 new woowoos claiming to be visited by aliens claiming to all have contradicting incontestable truths about insanity like Niburu, Chemtrails and the sun and moon randomly moving around that only they can see, then nothing will happen. Quoting: AnTiSoShAL 420394Exactly. And if you think it through, the only "disinformation" conspiracy theory that makes any sense for a site like this would be people intentionally shilling implausible theories for the purpose of creating the effects you're describing. I"m not saying that's actually happening, but it makes more sense than the other constant allegations. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 420394 United States 06/02/2009 03:37 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Disinformation Agents Tactics in Online Forums: ideas, input, experiences and how to defeat them. Please share to help us all find the truth. 2. The disinfo. agents often seem to be experts in the field they are debating, . Quoting: Anonymous Coward 548017Maybe you're just trying to argue with people who are better informed than you. Touche. The standard conspiracy delusion is that ANYONE who could know more about something than me and disagrees with my cause MUST be an agent sent to obstruct me. The logical fallacy being that no one can know more than me, lest my faith in myself be called in question, and it is always easier to question the veracity of others than ones self. Maybe you're just too gullible and have traded discerning reason for the comforting delusion that you are special and empowered with secrets that make you a member of the elite few. Once there, its a long road back down to reality, and its way easier just to stay and lash out at anything that contradicts you. There isn't a downside really, as long as you keep true faith. That's how religions work. Once you've committed to faith, its never easier to admit fault then it is to remain faithful to a lie. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 692676 United States 06/02/2009 03:38 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Disinformation Agents Tactics in Online Forums: ideas, input, experiences and how to defeat them. Please share to help us all find the truth. Seems to me that you're equating "disinformation" as someone who doesn't share your ideas or beliefs. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 693277It doesn't matter whether he calls you an idiot, or uses carefully-reasoned mathematics to support his position; if he disagrees with you, it's "disinformation". Is that it? It's about you and you showed up within minutes to prove it. You're fired for being too obvious. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 19003 Australia 06/02/2009 03:39 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Duncan Kunz User ID: 328931 United States 06/02/2009 03:39 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Disinformation Agents Tactics in Online Forums: ideas, input, experiences and how to defeat them. Please share to help us all find the truth. Seems to me that you're equating "disinformation" as someone who doesn't share your ideas or beliefs. Quoting: joejoeIt doesn't matter whether he calls you an idiot, or uses carefully-reasoned mathematics to support his position; if he disagrees with you, it's "disinformation". Is that it? no, not in the slightest. Can we admit that disinformation agents exist? Or have I already lost you there? Not at all. Certainly there are people who want us to believe that their versions of the way things work are the "truth", and they will misintertpret (or even invent) data, ignore any data which shows them wrong, ignore your posts and disappear from the thread (this is specially noticeable if the person you're discussing thigs with is an A/C), insult you and get into other ad hominem attacks, and so on. However, I would question your term "agents"; I do not think that GLP is important enough for any group to mouont a campaign to dispute someone's weltanachauung, although you certainly have both Debunkers and True Believers who will keep an eye out for "hot-button" posts and jump on them Where's the EVIDENCE, Jim? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 548017 United States 06/02/2009 03:41 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Disinformation Agents Tactics in Online Forums: ideas, input, experiences and how to defeat them. Please share to help us all find the truth. 2. The disinfo. agents often seem to be experts in the field they are debating, . Quoting: joejoeMaybe you're just trying to argue with people who are better informed than you. i was quite well informed about the information I was discussing, and using documented main stream sources, peer reviewed scientific papers, and logical arguments. It's a bit sad that even on a conspiracy website like GLP, that I have to try to prove that the possibility that disinfo. agents actually exist, no? But the fact that someon is an expert in the field they are debating is no proof of anything. There are plenty of people online who are experts on all sides of most issues and who will obsessively debate for long periods of time. It's been that way for the 16 years I've been online. People keep bringing up the notion that the quick appearance of "debunkers" on a thread proves they are paid shills. What about the people who are constantly posting these threads and appearing on them with opposing opinions? Does that prove they're being paid by someone? |
joejoe (OP) J to the 3rd User ID: 693047 Switzerland 06/02/2009 03:41 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Disinformation Agents Tactics in Online Forums: ideas, input, experiences and how to defeat them. Please share to help us all find the truth. Seems to me that you're equating "disinformation" as someone who doesn't share your ideas or beliefs. Quoting: Duncan KunzIt doesn't matter whether he calls you an idiot, or uses carefully-reasoned mathematics to support his position; if he disagrees with you, it's "disinformation". Is that it? no, not in the slightest. Can we admit that disinformation agents exist? Or have I already lost you there? Not at all. Certainly there are people who want us to believe that their versions of the way things work are the "truth", and they will misintertpret (or even invent) data, ignore any data which shows them wrong, ignore your posts and disappear from the thread (this is specially noticeable if the person you're discussing thigs with is an A/C), insult you and get into other ad hominem attacks, and so on. However, I would question your term "agents"; I do not think that GLP is important enough for any group to mouont a campaign to dispute someone's weltanachauung, although you certainly have both Debunkers and True Believers who will keep an eye out for "hot-button" posts and jump on them i am not talking about here on GLP. If you look at my post, i said it was a large, main stream, social networking site. . . No clotshot, NEVER! . Mad as hell! . |
AnTiSoShAL User ID: 420394 United States 06/02/2009 03:43 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Disinformation Agents Tactics in Online Forums: ideas, input, experiences and how to defeat them. Please share to help us all find the truth. Exactly. And if you think it through, the only "disinformation" conspiracy theory that makes any sense for a site like this would be people intentionally shilling implausible theories for the purpose of creating the effects you're describing. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 548017I"m not saying that's actually happening, but it makes more sense than the other constant allegations. This, my friend, DOES happen to a substantial degree. I personally know a loose knit association of folks who methodically and consistently flood GLP, Youtube and place unmentionable with deliberately made up content. You might have heard of some of their other work against a more popular and mainstream "chuch" that shouldnt be mentioned by name. Its not an act of an official organization, but the general agreement is that keeping people gullible enough to believe things below a certain threshold keeps them chasing their tales and keeps them from accumulating in cults and in ways that would be detrimental to the rest of the world. Think about the doomsday cult that gassed Japanese subways. A cult of easily influenced people is a powerful thing. Humanity is learning to fight that power intelligently, and indirectly.... |
joejoe (OP) J to the 3rd User ID: 693047 Switzerland 06/02/2009 03:44 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Disinformation Agents Tactics in Online Forums: ideas, input, experiences and how to defeat them. Please share to help us all find the truth. 2. The disinfo. agents often seem to be experts in the field they are debating, . Quoting: Anonymous Coward 548017Maybe you're just trying to argue with people who are better informed than you. i was quite well informed about the information I was discussing, and using documented main stream sources, peer reviewed scientific papers, and logical arguments. It's a bit sad that even on a conspiracy website like GLP, that I have to try to prove that the possibility that disinfo. agents actually exist, no? But the fact that someon is an expert in the field they are debating is no proof of anything. There are plenty of people online who are experts on all sides of most issues and who will obsessively debate for long periods of time. It's been that way for the 16 years I've been online. People keep bringing up the notion that the quick appearance of "debunkers" on a thread proves they are paid shills. What about the people who are constantly posting these threads and appearing on them with opposing opinions? Does that prove they're being paid by someone? i am talking about the same people continually attacking a post with counter sources and links (at times with in depth threads) within in a minutes or less. sometimes i really wonder why i bother and waste my time here with things like this... . . No clotshot, NEVER! . Mad as hell! . |
Guns n' God User ID: 536602 United States 06/02/2009 03:46 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Duncan Kunz User ID: 328931 United States 06/02/2009 03:50 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Disinformation Agents Tactics in Online Forums: ideas, input, experiences and how to defeat them. Please share to help us all find the truth. i am not talking about here on GLP. If you look at my post, i said it was a large, main stream, social networking site. Quoting: joejoeIf that were the case, and if by social networking site, you mean internet sites, I couldn't answer, because I usually don't go there. But if you mean mainstream sites such as newspaper/television/radio or electioneering, then certainly you are correct. For example, Big Labor, Big Education, big Pharma, Big Government, Big Pig, and Big anything wants and needs their views to become accepted, because that it a sure way to power and influence. And although these "disinfo agents" prefer to think of themselves as "lobbyists" and their function as "educating", they wiull say and do whatever to get their views acrosss, and lying comes as easy for them as it does to a politician. But to be honest, it's kind of irrelevant to me. Maybe it's becasue I'm an engineer, but I believe that if you come up with logic backed with logic, demonstrable facts and clear math to bacak your stuff up, you can always beat the "disinformation agents". Where's the EVIDENCE, Jim? |
joejoe (OP) J to the 3rd User ID: 693047 Switzerland 06/02/2009 03:50 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Disinformation Agents Tactics in Online Forums: ideas, input, experiences and how to defeat them. Please share to help us all find the truth. No such thing as disinfo agents, you nut. Quoting: Guns n' Godthanks gods n' guns, for your text book example of an ad hominem attack. I will use this to edamacate some of the people here willing to learn. Notice GLPers, he has resorted to calling me a nut, without offering any logical arguments, facts or sources to come to this opinion. An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the source making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim. The process of proving or disproving the claim is thereby subverted, and the argumentum ad hominem works to change the subject. Here, he has attempted to change the subject to my sanity, or lack of sanity. . . No clotshot, NEVER! . Mad as hell! . |
Duncan Kunz User ID: 328931 United States 06/02/2009 03:52 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Re: Disinformation Agents Tactics in Online Forums: ideas, input, experiences and how to defeat them. Please share to help us all find the truth. sometimes i really wonder why i bother and waste my time here with things like this... Quoting: joejoeProbably because -- like me -- you feel as strongly about your views as the "disinfo agent" does about his. Where's the EVIDENCE, Jim? |