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>> You don't get to assume that he did.

And since I can't, I shouldn't question anything, or have any doubts - is that about right?

If you want to "question it" then do some actual research and produce a paper, notes, a letter, anything from Harrington to show that he did what you just ASSume he did with no evidence whatsoever.

I agree that no such cover-up could last "forever". That said, Neptune takes almost 165 years to orbit the sun. One is still stuck relying on measurements going back as far as Galileo. The paper did not say that all discrepancies were resolved, and still attributes many measurement deviations to "observational error". And that may be true. I don't think enough time has passed since 1992 to acquire enough new data to fully resolve the issue "once and for all". A cover-up doesn't have to hold "forever" - just "long enough".

Last Edited by ***ZetaMaX*** on 02/17/2014 04:22 PM

Read the thread I linked. You don't have to wait for a full orbit to complete.

I don't care what you think.

I don't care that you don't care - and that's not a refutation. And even if the deviations are becoming measureable - it would be an issue only for amateurs, as more and more professionals regardless of occupation increasingly learn to "go along to get along" (if they know what's good for them). And any amateur raising his hand and saying, "hey - I think we have a problem here" - is going to run smack into the "cover-up" (if one exists) or the "party line" (if it doesn't) and experience denouncement and derision like never before. "Party lines" are getting more entrenched and inflexible across the societal spectrum, whether it's science, politics, medicine or education. Even if there is no Nibiru, there is definitely a societal descent into more and more authoritarianism, which is bad for everyone except the "authorities" - and that includes "astroMoners".

That said - I hope you're right on all your points. I really don't wish to experience doomsday, and that's the TRUTH.

Ah. Yet more evidence that your claim of fence-sitting is false. If you can only articulate the argument on one side of the fence, you are, by definition, not sitting on it.

Disappointing. But not surprising. My elementary school classmate obviously had more balls than you have.

Max

If you take the timw to read the link he posted it explains why you don't have to wait that long and also will give real evidence that there won't be a planet x doomsday to worry about.

As far as there being no doomsday at all who knows?

You can't "refute" someone who doesn't listen to facts to begin with. So like I said, I don't care what you personally believe, you reached your "conclusion" in the absence of facts, you are not evaluating the situation rationally and I have no desire to force you into a rational state of mind.

More conclusions on your part in the complete absence of facts. What part of "it's not happening" do you not understand? Don't answer, I really don't even care.

More a priori assumptions on your part. Nevermind the fact that it's demonstrably not happening. Anyone with a proper telescope can check this, it's not that hard, and no one can silence amateur astronomers. There's too many of us, too many ways for us to communicate, and it's all too easy to verify/refute even if met with skepticism.

I don't believe you.

If it's too far away, then how does anyone know it's coming in from the south? If you say by telescope - where are the photos from amateur astronomers in the southern hemisphere? And if it's coming in from the south, then why are there so many videos showing what people are claiming is "Planet X" hanging out near the sun? What say you?

Provide us with photos taken by amateur astronomers in the southern hemisphere. If there are amateur astronomers in the northern hemisphere looking for it, surely there must be some in the southern hemisphere as well. If so many people are posting videos of what they believe is "Planet X", surely there must be photographic evidence from the southern hemisphere. So, put up or shut up.

Should I add this guy to your list of LIARS?

"But of course!"

And no, I'm not going to watch a 53 minute video.
YOU have the burden of proof, I.E. YOU will have to present YOUR evidence.
Vaguely waving to a woochube is just (hand)waving.

>> I'm not going to watch a 53 minute video

Actually, it's only part 1 - the whole vid is almost 2 hours.

2 full hours of lies??? (That's a LOT of lying!)

It's a Project Camelot presentation, and their work is highly regarded.

Being an honest, moral, compassionate person myself, who loves the truth and who abhors telling even "white lies", I find it difficult to accept that "no one" in this group has the same ethical compass governing their behavior.

I cannot get my head around people who LOVE lying, and get off on it. It is foreign to my nature. Which is one of the reasons I am slow to dismiss this material.

My brush is not, and has never been "broad".

Friend, you need to open your eyes to reality. People lie ALL the time. Now I'm not saying this, or any other particular video, is based on lies, (which I don't have time to waste watching) but you may be overlooking another possibility, Mr. former attorney. That is people posting these types of videos are not lying, per se, but merely repeating someone else's cleverly fabricated story because they are, very simply, extremely gullible or prone to suggestion (not an uncommon trait I must say).

Additionally, Project SCAMelot, is not highly regarded. At best it's a disinformation outlet designed to suck in those I referred to above, or at worst, clever capitalistic snake oil peddlers (again, designed to suck in those I referred to above).

And yes, thank you, I consider myself an honest, compassionate, moral person peppered with a variety of human flaws.

>> The odds of an ejected planet from another solar system coming through our inner solar system on such a trajectory is so low it's not even worth thinking about.

I've been thinking about this, and I gotta say, I think the odds "are worth thinking about". A planet or brown dwarf gets ejected from a system, similar to the way you described the ice-giant getting ejected. It has escaped one gravity well, into "immense space".

>> Space is absolutely immense, the space between stars is vast and our sun's gravity well is much smaller than some other solar systems.

Yea - of course, but unless an ejected planet heads out into intergalatic space, I would argue it is DESTINED to visit a neighboring system. The gravity of systems lying in front of it need only exert the slightest of tugs to gradually, slowly, turn the behemoth toward itself. Because of the vast distance involved, only a very slight pull can do the trick. Our area of the galaxy is the rim, a "backwater", remote rural region of the galaxy. Our sun does not have to compete gravitationally the way stars toward the center do. If a planet or brown dwarf is ejected and heads into space with our sun being the closet one by a significant factor, then I would argue that EVENTUALLY (yes it could take tens or hundreds-of-thousands of years) this object will get pulled into our system. It's not so much the size of the system, but who it's competing with gravitationally - and our sun doesn't have a lot of competition in this region of the galaxy. In fact, not only is "precision" of trajectory not necessary, but in fact, it's like hitting the broad side of a barn - from fifty yards out. Inevitable. Now - the gravity well argument is VERY important when debating if capture is going to occur - and a fast brown dwarf would normally not be captured by a sun this small - even if it grazed it at a distance as small as Mercury.

BUT - What if it STRUCK A PLANET on the way to it's first (and normally last) sling shot around the sun?????? (we see comets do the sling shot thing - why not something much bigger?) WHICH IS PRECISELY WHAT THE SUMERIAN TABLETS SAY IT DID!!!!! Please explain to me how that wouldn't slow it down enough to enable CAPTURE? ... with the result being Sitchen's orbit! (Now it all makes SENSE)

Also - even if a planet headed into intergalactic space, I would argue it would be destined to head towards and "eventually" reach a neighboring galaxy. (Unless the galaxies it's headed for are moving in the same direction faster than the planets escape velocity - then and only then might it remain "lost in space" ... FOREVER) But, galaxies are so huge, and such gravitational giants, that it's hard to imagine just how much speed a small planet(oid) would need to escape it completely and forever.

Last Edited by ***ZetaMaX*** on 02/18/2014 02:30 PM

And what makes you think it will come here? Given that we don't even see comets from other solar systems, despite the fact that they're far more numerous and ejected with far greater frequency, demonstrates just how vast space is. You're not getting it. No, the odds aren't worth thinking about. You're chronically paranoid if you worry about an event that incredibly unlikely, and if you're going to worry about that, then why aren't you also worried that a black hole will come out of nowhere at high relative velocity and swallow our planet? Why aren't you worried that space aliens will go all death star on our planet in the next 5 seconds? Why aren't you worried that an asteroid a hundred meters in size will strike your location out of nowhere in the next 5 seconds? Why aren't you worried that an elephant will fall out of a cargo plane at 30,000 feet and land on your head next time you go outside? Why aren't you worried that a randomly fired bullet from a mile away will fall out of the sky and strike you in the head? All of these things are just as likely to kill you, in some cases far more so, you can't do anything about any of it, and if you spend your time worrying about every bad thing that can physically happen you will accomplish nothing.

Then you don't understand how vast space is.

Wrong. Solar systems velocities relative to each other are normally measured in kms/sec. If the trajectory does not pass very near the system to start with, it won't matter.

We've been through this already. There is no massive planet sweeping through the inner solar system on an elliptical orbit. If there were we would see the perturbations in the orbits of the planets and asteroids. Doesn't matter if it formed here or was captured later by "colliding with another planet."

Last Edited by Astromut on 02/18/2014 02:42 PM

People are very imaginative, and some just loooove to tell tall tales.


Not by informed rational people.


LOL


They are ALL either lying, or dumb and gullible.


Argument from personal incredulity.

You might as well say that because you could never murder someone Ted Bundy and Charles Manson must have been hoaxes.


You were asked to present evidence that that IS what the Sumerian tablets say.

Actual Sumerologists all say that such claims are baseless fabrications, i.e. MORE LIES.

Yes please!

>> Given that we don't even see comets from other solar systems, despite the fact that they're far more numerous and ejected with far greater frequency, demonstrates just how vast space is.

These guys would disagree:

ZM is just being a lawyer, exactly as he's trained to do. He is *trained* to cherry pick the facts that support his client's case -- putting emphasis on some while dismissing or objecting to others. It isn't about finding fact, and it isn't about science. He wants 'reasonable doubt,' because that's how he gets his 'client' off scott free.

ZM doesn't seem to understand how the rules of science work, hence the tag line he employs. He can't even adopt the other side of the argument, because to do so would violate his training -- as he wants *anything* but a level playing field, and wants to keep the conversation going regardless of repeatedly being proven wrong. The Debunkers must have set goalposts, but not ZM. Objection, your honor.

Go to the early arguments of ZM on this very thread, back in 2009. None of them have changed a whit. The fact that he's had to retreat from Nancy at all shows how truly awful her claims and predictions have been.

When argued into a corner, he will distract by changing the subject without admitting he's wrong, exactly as he just did. That's what he is supposed to do. That's what he's trained to do. Facts are merely a means to an end, and twisting them to fit a conclusion, or cherry picking any irrelevancy or distraction is merely a means to 'win.'

Sorry, I'm much more into understanding reality, as it is. Science is about burning away irrelevancies. ZM's all about adding them.

Dr. Astro says comets are ejected more than planets. Yet, "science" pretty much acknowledges that they don't know shit-from-shinola [link to www.phrases.org.uk] when it comes to comets:

"Everytime we look, we find our textbooks were wrong." Ed Weiler, NASA Science Mission - The Electric Comet at 1:28

Comets are nothing more than the leftover "shrapnel" from the destruction of Tiamat as discussed in the Sumerian tablets. As such, you couldn't expect to find many them existing - much less being ejected - from other systems unless they also had a high speed collision between planets or moons of significant size, like OUR solar system experienced in the not too distant past (hundreds-of-thousands of years - not even millions, much less billions). Also, because of the small size, most of this planetary detritus would not have the velocity necessary to escape the suns gravity. The asteroid belt is composed of planetary remnants that were either too large, or ejected too slowly to become comets.

Last Edited by ***ZetaMaX*** on 02/19/2014 01:37 PM

Those guys are not astronomers. Show me one, just one, comet that is extremely hyperbolic, with eccentricity greater than 1.5.

Thanks for proving 7444's point. You just cherry picked a quote. We know comets are ejected from solar systems, we know they're far more numerous than planets, these facts are not up for debate.

Of course they're more numerous (in our solar system, which is the only one we can truly see) - when the collision occurred, it is likely that millions of comets where created - with most since having been destroyed just like ISON and Elenin, or Shoemaker Levy. Another couple hundred thousand years, and I dare say you'll hard pressed to find any still around! (unless another visit of PX ends up with more smashed planets or moons)

Last Edited by ***ZetaMaX*** on 02/19/2014 03:44 PM

Cart before the horse.

Oort cloud = trillions of comets.

Ban Melfy.

Not at all. You must not have reviewed the findings of the Stardust Mission.

The old paradigm ... "failed outright once the scientists had real comet dust in their laboratories. The grains were simply too large and the minerological and chemical compositions far too complex."

"The comet samples collected by Stardust contain abundant crystalline minerals and in most cases it is clear that they did not form by the predicted mild heating of intersellar dust." Donald Brownlee, Principal Investigator, Stardust Mission

"The raw comet material (of comet) Wild 2 contained Iron and Sulfer minerals that can only be formed in the presence of liquid water. LIQUID WATER - not in the near perfect vacuum of deep space, and not in a deep freeze."

"Liquid water requires atmospheric or other pressure. It cannot exist in the vacuum of interstellar space."

"The sulfide minerals formed between 50 and 200 degrees Celsius (122 and 392 degrees Fahrenheit), much warmer than the sub-zero temperatures predicted for the interior of a comet." Dante Lauretta, Principal Investigator, Wild 2 University of Arizona team

"The discovery shatters the existing paradigm of comets as 'dirty snowballs,' whose icy bulk never gets warm enough to melt." Cecile LeBlanc, EarthSky.org

"... also occurring in the comet dust was the mineral olivine whose molecular structure rapidly breaks down in the very presence of water. It's a common igneous form, and an abundant by-product of volcanism."

"Cubanite - formed in liquid water. Cannot exist above 210 degrees Celsius."

"Pyrrhorite/Sphalerite - requiring extremely high temperatures."

"Only trivial amounts of cosmic dust."

"Complete absence of water, despite minerals that require it."

"To this seemingly contradictory picture, we must add extreme selective heating. Selective heating because much of the compositional material could not survive the super-heating that created all the forsterite and other crystalline minerals."

"The Wild 2 discoveries have forced upon comet science one inescapable fact: In our own cosmic neighborhood, the diverse mineral content of Wild 2 is typical ONLY of planets in the Habitable Zone of a fully developed sun."

ALL QUOTES TAKEN DIRECTLY FROM "The Electric Comet" starting at 12:50

What say you Doctor???



Last Edited by ***ZetaMaX*** on 02/19/2014 05:05 PM

Yes, you've made quite a ridiculous claim as to the origin of comets, it's up to you to prove it. Your logic is circular.

By the way, "electric comets" debunked:
[link to www.nature.com]
No magnetic field at all around the comet nucleus.