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Swine flu patients in ICU tough to manage, 'just really, really sick': doctors

 
WomanInBlack
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06/18/2009 11:08 PM
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Swine flu patients in ICU tough to manage, 'just really, really sick': doctors
In a typical flu season, the Winnipeg hospitals where Dr. Anand Kumar works might see one, maybe two life-threatening cases of viral pneumonia caused by influenza.

So seeing 10, 15 and more flu patients in those same hospitals' intensive care beds in June is still a shock, suggests Kumar, a critical care specialist who works at three different hospitals in the city.

"You just don't see this many of them," Anand says of the patients, struggling to survive swine flu infections.

"You don't see rows and rows of patients on ventilators because they have respiratory failure, a viral pneumonia kind of thing. It's unusual."

At last count, Manitoba hospitals had 30 respiratory distress patients in the ICU, some confirmed swine flu cases, others for whom tests are still pending.

In most people, swine flu behaves like regular flu - it makes you feel miserable, you head to your bed and in time you recover. But in an as-yet unknown proportion of cases, the virus seems to quickly trigger severe illness.

A report compiled by the World Health Organization said between two and five per cent of confirmed cases require hospitalization. But no one yet knows how big a portion of the iceberg is above water (the confirmed cases) and how much remains submerged (cases that never come to the attention of medical authorities).

People who end up getting admitted to hospital are generally presenting with shortness of breath. And by the time they get to the ICU, swine flu patients - most much younger than your average hospitalized flu patient - are gravely ill from a viral assault on their lungs.

"They're getting very bad, bad respiratory failure," says Dr. Michael Gardam, head of infectious disease prevention and control for Ontario's public health agency.

Kumar and others describe patients whose care is challenging.

"The patients are difficult to manage. They're unusually difficult to ventilate effectively," he says, referring to the practice of putting patients who cannot breath adequately for themselves on a machine called a ventilator that takes over the job temporarily.

"They're just really, really sick. It's impressive how sick they are."

Researchers are still trying to piece together how the new H1N1 virus attacks the bodies of those who develop a severe swine flu infection, and whether the damage is all the work of the virus.

One theory is that an over-exuberant immune response turns the body's defences against itself. That has been seen in human infections with H5N1 avian influenza, but it's not yet determined if this process - sometimes called a cytokine storm - is at play with swine flu.

"We don't know right now how much is direct toxic effect of the virus versus the effect of the body's immune system," says Dr. Nathan Dean, chief of pulmonary critical care at LDS Hospital in Salt Lake City, where he's treated about 25 swine flu cases in ICU over the past month.

Ask Dean what's happening to his patients' bodies and the response is both quick and rueful: "I would love to know."

In addition to trying to keep these patients alive, clinicians like Anand and Dean are gathering data. The case studies they are writing, and which will shortly be competing for space in medical journals, will help doctors who haven't yet see severe swine flu cases know how to handle them when they do.

Likewise, autopsies that have been performed on a number of people who died of their infections will help scientists figure out what the virus does in the body, information physicians may be able to mine for clues on how to improve a severely ill person's chances of survival.

The additions to the scientific literature will be welcome.

Finding out what is going on with severely ill patients has been a struggle, says Dr. Frederick Hayden, an influenza expert at the University of Virginia who co-authored the recent WHO report.

"The information is very important in terms of understanding how to manage the more seriously ill patients," Hayden insists.

He says the emerging evidence - confirmed by Anand's and Dean's observations - is that at least a portion of the sickest of the sick are suffering from an aggressive viral pneumonia.

Seasonal flu often lays low the body's defences. In the case of some, particularly the elderly, that opens the door to what are called secondary bacterial pneumonias. When people succumb to seasonal flu, these bacterial pneumonias are often the direct cause.

But at least most bacterial pneumonias can be treated with antibiotics.

There are fewer drug options for viral pneumonia. Of the four antiviral drugs that target flu, this particular bug is resistant to two. That leaves oseltamivir and zanamivir - Tamiflu and Relenza.

For optimum efficacy, they should be started within 48 hours of onset of illness. But, as it recommended for cases of H5N1 avian flu, the WHO suggests longer and perhaps higher doses of antivirals for gravely ill swine flu patients.

People who cannot breath for themselves are placed on a ventilator, which can bridge the patient to recovery. But breathing machines can pose risks as well. A portion of people go on to develop ventilator associated pneumonia.

Beyond that, treatment options are limited.

"It's basically supportive (care)," says Gardam. "You're supporting them long enough for their lungs to heal."

While most so far have survived, the swine flu death toll mounts daily. The ages of the dead are startling for influenza. Within the past several days, two healthy 40-year-old men died - in Winnipeg and in Chile. So did a 20-year-old woman in San Diego, Calif.

"The people who die in the short term die of acute severe lung injury, I think," says Dr. Allison McGeer, an influenza expert with Toronto's Mount Sinai Hospital.

"Now whether that's direct insult from flu, whether that's flu in combination with other viruses ... whether that's flu and bacteria - don't know."

[link to www.cjad.com]
We forfeit three-fourths of ourselves in order to be like other people.

Les Ruines De La Modernité-Pendaison De L'Humanité
Anonymous Coward
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06/18/2009 11:12 PM
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Re: Swine flu patients in ICU tough to manage, 'just really, really sick': doctors
OP, i have tried. only a few of us care around here. this doom is not quick enough for them.
WomanInBlack  (OP)

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06/18/2009 11:14 PM
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Re: Swine flu patients in ICU tough to manage, 'just really, really sick': doctors
OP, i have tried. only a few of us care around here. this doom is not quick enough for them.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 641110


It is a VERY big deal in Manitoba and Native areas in Canada...perhaps people don't give a damn about the Native communities, but I do. They are getting hit with this harder than any other population, which is probably why the media doesn't give a damn.
We forfeit three-fourths of ourselves in order to be like other people.

Les Ruines De La Modernité-Pendaison De L'Humanité
Anonymous Coward
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06/18/2009 11:21 PM
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Re: Swine flu patients in ICU tough to manage, 'just really, really sick': doctors
Fuck the media.


We've seen how worthless those fucks are.


The bullshit they peddle on their stupid channels day and night.


Such a crock of shit. The PEOPLE are where the reporting and news should come from.
Anonymous Coward
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06/18/2009 11:21 PM
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Re: Swine flu patients in ICU tough to manage, 'just really, really sick': doctors
OP, i have tried. only a few of us care around here. this doom is not quick enough for them.


It is a VERY big deal in Manitoba and Native areas in Canada...perhaps people don't give a damn about the Native communities, but I do. They are getting hit with this harder than any other population, which is probably why the media doesn't give a damn.
 Quoting: WomanInBlack

i know, i know. i have been watching it up there. its not good.

i tried warning, but no one gives a flying fuck around here to be honest.
Anonymous Coward
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06/18/2009 11:22 PM
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Re: Swine flu patients in ICU tough to manage, 'just really, really sick': doctors
we are at 104 deaths here in the USA.
Anonymous Coward
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06/19/2009 12:26 AM
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Re: Swine flu patients in ICU tough to manage, 'just really, really sick': doctors
bump
Anonymous Coward
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06/19/2009 12:37 AM
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Re: Swine flu patients in ICU tough to manage, 'just really, really sick': doctors
no one gives a flying fuck around here to be honest.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 641110

i do.............................. keeping watch. hf
mr...bojangles

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06/19/2009 12:38 AM
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Re: Swine flu patients in ICU tough to manage, 'just really, really sick': doctors
too bad the doctors don`t study chemtrails....

maybe they would get more clues...

oh wait...but then it means they would get fired from their hospitals for getting into taboos...

brave new world...
Beyond one's own mind there is no dazzling light to come shining in from outside to wake one up. If one recognizes one's own intrinsic State as pure from the beginning and only temporarily obscured by impurities, and if one maintains the presence of this recognition without becoming distracted, then all the impurities dissolve. This is the essence of the Path-namkhai norbu.

Why is there a legend about the descent of Christ into hell? The Teacher addressed the lower strata of the astral world, saying: �Why, by cherishing earthly thoughts, bind oneself eternally to Earth?� And many revolted in spirit and rose higher.
Thread: I shot video of the earth from my spacecraft, enjoy!
Anonymous Coward
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06/19/2009 12:45 AM
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Re: Swine flu patients in ICU tough to manage, 'just really, really sick': doctors
Wait until flu season - the cases will explode as will the death rate (when the hospitals are overwhelmed).
Anonymous Coward
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06/19/2009 12:48 AM
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Re: Swine flu patients in ICU tough to manage, 'just really, really sick': doctors
Should prolly have put the crack pipe down sooner then.
Anonymous Coward
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06/19/2009 12:49 AM
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Re: Swine flu patients in ICU tough to manage, 'just really, really sick': doctors
and we move closer to Stephen King's "The Stand" becoming reality.
Anonymous Coward
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06/19/2009 12:50 AM
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Re: Swine flu patients in ICU tough to manage, 'just really, really sick': doctors
tough to manage" because they want to get out and go home?
Anonymous Coward
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06/19/2009 12:56 AM
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Re: Swine flu patients in ICU tough to manage, 'just really, really sick': doctors
The response of the doctor is informative. They don't know what is going on with these patients. Why does this flu barely effect some people yet others go all the way to the grave? I have seen this doctor in headlights reaction before. Doctors often do not know what is going on. If the root cause is not properly identified the recommended therapy will likely not be effective. I see many more dead people.
Anonymous Coward
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06/19/2009 01:06 AM
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Re: Swine flu patients in ICU tough to manage, 'just really, really sick': doctors
garlic and echinacea equals 10 times better chances than without the herbs and their phytochemicals.
Anonymous Coward
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06/19/2009 01:07 AM
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Re: Swine flu patients in ICU tough to manage, 'just really, really sick': doctors
The response of the doctor is informative. They don't know what is going on with these patients. Why does this flu barely effect some people yet others go all the way to the grave? I have seen this doctor in headlights reaction before. Doctors often do not know what is going on. If the root cause is not properly identified the recommended therapy will likely not be effective. I see many more dead people.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 690828


Doctors do not use fevers to heal, they suppress them to kill.
mr...bojangles

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06/19/2009 01:13 AM
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Re: Swine flu patients in ICU tough to manage, 'just really, really sick': doctors
any type of physical shock (cytokine storm) can be stopped with ascorbic acid...

vitamin c...

the dose is 3 grams every hour with a glass of mineral water...

I use perrier...

but purified water will do...

remember that folks....

it is the sure bet...

vitamins are taboo in the medical establishment...

Last Edited by mr...bojangles on 06/19/2009 01:42 PM
Beyond one's own mind there is no dazzling light to come shining in from outside to wake one up. If one recognizes one's own intrinsic State as pure from the beginning and only temporarily obscured by impurities, and if one maintains the presence of this recognition without becoming distracted, then all the impurities dissolve. This is the essence of the Path-namkhai norbu.

Why is there a legend about the descent of Christ into hell? The Teacher addressed the lower strata of the astral world, saying: �Why, by cherishing earthly thoughts, bind oneself eternally to Earth?� And many revolted in spirit and rose higher.
Thread: I shot video of the earth from my spacecraft, enjoy!
MagiChristmas

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06/19/2009 01:14 AM
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Re: Swine flu patients in ICU tough to manage, 'just really, really sick': doctors
OP, i have tried. only a few of us care around here. this doom is not quick enough for them.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 641110


Tis True, Tis True,
Second Degree Doom Shall Soon Ensue. gaah
PhennommennonnModerator
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06/19/2009 01:18 AM

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:::hi5ver:::
political correctness is a doctrine.... fostered by a delusional, illogical minority...... and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media; which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
ALeopardSanctuary

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06/19/2009 01:20 AM
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Re: Swine flu patients in ICU tough to manage, 'just really, really sick': doctors
Wow. TY OP
Brother sun, intuition moon. Home at the forest.

Sure every post I have mentions goat blood...How do you think we get plasma tv's?

Organic needs are being assaulted. I'm not amused by this & encourage all to grow heirloom seed for themselves.

The garden gives greatest power.
Diabetes curing food list [Forget the FDA - Think for yourself]:
Thread: Every item recently recalled by FDA for salmonella has diabetic healing also prostate Big Pharma rids their competition
Anonymous Coward
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06/19/2009 01:24 AM
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Fear LOVERS! Eat some plants don't shit your pants!
Anonymous Coward
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06/19/2009 01:29 AM
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There's that good socialized medicine again! tounge
Anonymous Coward
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06/19/2009 01:34 AM
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Re: Swine flu patients in ICU tough to manage, 'just really, really sick': doctors
I just received two packages in from Manitoba today. I really hope this thing does like to hitch rides.
Anonymous Coward
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06/19/2009 01:35 AM
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Re: Swine flu patients in ICU tough to manage, 'just really, really sick': doctors
I just received two packages in from Manitoba today. I really hope this thing does like to hitch rides.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 706151

Doesn't like to hitch rides rather.
Anonymous Coward
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06/19/2009 01:37 AM
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Re: Swine flu patients in ICU tough to manage, 'just really, really sick': doctors
I suspect that smoking coats the lungs enough to protect smokers and that this is the reason cigarettes have gone up in price every month. Joe Vialls wrote something similar about lung cancer, which he said was caused solely by radioactive fallout.
I am a smoker, and I was ill with this flu a week ago for a day and a half.
I am quite sure that chemtrails are the cause. I have been sprayed by chemtrails since 2004. I was the first to be sprayed and the first to notice, because they began as gigantic X marks over the various places I lived. Plus, I am a highly aware, watch-listed woman.
When they began spraying the town where I settled in 2005, everyone became ill. The hospital was full. I was so congested that I could not hear for a month. That was the first time in my life that I had ever been congested. Many of the townspeople knew I was on a watch list and made my life so miserable that I moved away for over two years. When I returned in 2005 after a hurricane had destroyed the town, no one blamed me for the illnesses, because no one believed in chemtrails, not even when I pointed them out and told them what they were.
I hold every health care professional in the U.S. responsible. They see the illnesses and deaths, and they do NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!
meras
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06/19/2009 01:46 AM
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Re: Swine flu patients in ICU tough to manage, 'just really, really sick': doctors
[link to www.globalsecurity.org]

One researcher suggested that many of the apparently healthy young adults who died in 1918 were in fact infected with tuberculosis, explaining the unusually high mortality rates among young adults. Tuberculosis death rates plummeted after 1918, which can be explained by the fact that many TB sufferers died of the flu and therefore were not around to die later, nor to pass the TB bacillus to others. Just after 1918, TB death rates experience their steepest decline of the century, and this decline is much more pronounced for males than for females.

[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]


It could be that people with the worst outcomes have undetected tuberculosis.

As for why some communities are more susceptible that others it could be due to the fact that the cystic fibrosis trait more prevalent in Europeans gives protection against tuberculosis.

[link to www.newscientist.com]
Anonymous Coward
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06/19/2009 01:51 AM
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Re: Swine flu patients in ICU tough to manage, 'just really, really sick': doctors
Fuck the media.


We've seen how worthless those fucks are.


The bullshit they peddle on their stupid channels day and night.


Such a crock of shit. The PEOPLE are where the reporting and news should come from.
 Quoting: Mister Obvious



The doctor from WHO (World Health Organization) that is in charge of this swine flu epidemic is none other than a


Dr. Fuk - u - DA

Dr. Fukuda, look it up. I find that in itself as revealing as Madoff in relation to the billion dollar swindle in finance. WAKE UP PEOPLE,
Anonymous Coward
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06/19/2009 02:06 AM
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I will look up Fukada, but for now I want to know how far are we expected to go with informing the public? Doctors don't give a rat's ass. Pilots, media personnel, politicians are covering everything up. So, really, why should we try to inform an already uneducable population?
S. * M.
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06/19/2009 02:15 AM
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So sad. So very very sad.


*



---V---
The Jurist

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06/19/2009 02:16 AM
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Nice... Congrats on the pin, hun hf
`
(Be) Divide(ed) and (be) Conquer(ed)...

Don’t listen to what they say, watch what they do.

~There is Tranquility in Ignorance, but Servitude is its Partner. —me
~What luck for Rulers that Men do not Think. —Adolf Hitler

:damned: Doom is optional. There is good news abounds.
Anonymous Coward
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06/19/2009 02:26 AM
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Re: Swine flu patients in ICU tough to manage, 'just really, really sick': doctors
They need a cover. The money is where the story is, but they need everyone's attention elsewhere. Read this link, they need everyones attention diverted, swine flu, Korea, hell anything, something but keep the people occupied otherwise they cannot maintain the cover to complete the MONEY game. People better wake up to what is happening, your FEAR is going to bury you. KEEP YOUR EYE ON THE MONEY TRAIL.



Thread: Why isn't MSM Covering This? US BONDS $ 134.5 Billion Are Seized in Italy

06/08/2009 15:18
ASIA – ITALY [link to www.asianews.it]

US government securities seized from Japanese nationals, not clear whether real or fake Bonds worth US$ 134.5 billion are seized. This is the largest financial smuggling case in history. But are they real? Concern over ‘funny money’ or counterfeit securities is spreading in Asia. The international press is silent.

Milan (AsiaNews) – Italy’s financial police (Guardia italiana di Finanza) has seized US bonds worth US 134.5 billion from two Japanese nationals at Chiasso (40 km from Milan) on the border between Italy and Switzerland. They include 249 US Federal Reserve bonds worth US$ 500 million each, plus ten Kennedy bonds and other US government securities worth a billion dollar each.

Italian authorities have not yet determined whether they are real or fake, but if they are real the attempt to take them into Switzerland would be the largest financial smuggling operation in history; if they are fake, the matter would be even more mind-boggling because the quality of the counterfeit work is such that the fake bonds are undistinguishable from the real ones.

What caught the policemen’s attention were the billion dollar securities. Such a large denomination is not available in regular financial and banking markets. Only states handle such amounts of money.

The question now is who could or would counterfeit or smuggle these non-negotiable bonds.

In order to stop money laundering Italian law sets a ceiling of 10,000 euros per person for importing or exporting money without declaring it. The penalty for violating the law is 40 per cent of the money seized.

If the certificates were real, for Italy it would be like hitting the jackpot. The fine alone would amount to US$ 38 billion, five times the estimated cost of rebuilding quake-devastated Abruzzi region. It would help Italy’s eliminate its public deficit.

If the certificates are fakes the two Japanese nationals could get a very lengthy jail sentence for fraud.

As soon as the seizure was made the US Embassy in Rome was informed. Italian and US secret services were called in to assist the Italian financial police.

Some important international financial newspapers had already reported on the existence of ‘funny money’ circulating on parallel, i.e. unofficial, financial markets.

For AsiaNews a few points need considering:

1. When it comes to Italy the world press has tended to focus on Italian Prime Minister Berlusconi’s personal problems rather than on stories like the bonds smuggling affair which has been front page on Italian newspapers.

2. The fear of counterfeit bonds and securities has spread across Asia with the result that real securities are also considered with suspicion.

3. During the Second World War several countries at war printed and put in circulation perfectly counterfeit enemy money. It is also historically established that some central banks, like the Bank of Italy 65 years ago, issued the same securities twice (identical registered number and code). This way they could print more money with legal tender than they officially declared. The main difference though is that 65 years ago the world was involved in a bloody war, which is not the case today.

:DaJ2cents: Whether real or forged it is clearly a problem...it sux to be us. To compare, the FEDERAL RESERVE only has $45 Billion in capital reserves.
 Quoting: DaJavoo





GLP