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Holy Crap Feds Are Going To Take Over Concealed Carry Permits With New Reciprocity Law Please Read

 
Anonymous Coward
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07/21/2009 12:55 PM
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Holy Crap Feds Are Going To Take Over Concealed Carry Permits With New Reciprocity Law Please Read
Federal CCW reciprocity?

Well, that's a mouthful.

And it might even sound like a good idea.

If the Feds made every state honor the CCW licenses of every other state...

You could carry virtually everywhere, right?

Well, while we all desire the freedom to carry everywhere we go, and while
none of us likes putting up with other states that won't recognize our
permits, this amendment is simply not what it appears to be.
Hear me out. I know some of our supporters like this idea, and I can
understand that. But there's more going on here than you may realize.

First of all, once you let federal bureaucrats control CCW permits for all
50 states, the same bureaucrats will control the content of those permits.


Understand this: Once you've handed the reins over to Washington to
federalize CCWs nationwide, the gun grabbers would only need to amend this
one piece of code to strip the whole nation of its gun rights -- because
that code determines the CCW rules of all 50 states.


And what's the easiest place to start with such a broadly-written bill like
this? Legislate by the least common denominator: Do you want to see New
York-style CCW in your home state?

And those of you with New England-style rules who enjoy carrying in schools,
restaurants, and bars: Do you want those liberties to disappear?

While it may not happen THIS YEAR, it will be a constant threat and a real
danger every year.

In truth, this is exactly the opposite of what Montana did with its
groundbreaking “Montana Made” legislation. Instead of telling the feds to
get out of the firearm regulation business, national reciprocity invites
them in. That’s not a good thing.

Second, if this bill passes, the feds will have a complete list of CCW
holders for all 50 states. How else would they make the states enforce CCWs
nationwide? Do you want the ATF to have a list of every CCW holder in
America? I know I don't.

This amendment is a question of power and regulation -- and of stripping
rights from states and giving them to the feds.

Finally, there is the problem that insider lobbyists want to attach this
amendment to a bill at the top of the homosexual lobby's priority list --
H.R. 1913, the so-called Hate Crimes bill that some critics believe will
empower federal agents to regulate speech deemed to be "violent."

H.R. 1913 criminalizes speech and makes your personal beliefs a federal
matter. I doubt it would pass without a good dose of political chicanery.

And that's why gay rights groups are trying to buy off some pro-gun elected
officials (many of whom publicly oppose H.R. 1913) with this clever
amendment nonsense in a crooked ploy to pass a bad bill that wouldn't go
anywhere without their support.

Here's how it works:

Those who want to control private speech have prostituted insider gun
lobbyists to divide opposition to H.R. 1913 by hoodwinking gun owners into
jumping on board.

Now those who would ordinarily want to protect free speech and keep the
federal government from regulating thought are being pressured to support an
ostensibly "pro-gun" bill...that's not pro-gun at all.

And worse, those who are pushing this amendment have successfully hidden its
true nature from so many pro-gun voters who are telling their Senators to
vote for it.

Suffice to say: Unlike the NRA, we are extremely hesitant to jump in bed and
cuddle with gay rights groups and institutional gun lobbyists to pass a bill
that -- no matter how attractive it looks on the outside -- poses so much
danger to gun owners.

Wayne LaPierre's lackeys may think this is a cute move, but we're not
falling for this sirens' call. This is all just a trick to make us choose
between free speech and guns -- and yet the consolation prize they offer
promises only tyranny.

Read Luke's blog here to read more about this controversial move, and don't
be afraid to join the conversation by leaving a comment.

In liberty,
Dudley Brown
Executive Director
National Association for Gun Rights
ShadowDancer

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07/21/2009 12:59 PM
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Re: Holy Crap Feds Are Going To Take Over Concealed Carry Permits With New Reciprocity Law Please Read
TRUTH bump


Seconded, I move to observe the content of said bill...


Better learn folks if you want to change it....they are constant in their attacks on liberty-

bump

hf

bait and switch-double speak and subterfuge



dynamite


hiding
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Anonymous Coward (OP)
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07/21/2009 01:01 PM
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Re: Holy Crap Feds Are Going To Take Over Concealed Carry Permits With New Reciprocity Law Please Read
When I first heard of this yesterday I thought it was a good thing too. I never thought about them taking over the permits and creating a datababse.
Anonymous Coward
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07/21/2009 01:02 PM
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Re: Holy Crap Feds Are Going To Take Over Concealed Carry Permits With New Reciprocity Law Please Read
Cite your source.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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07/21/2009 01:08 PM
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Re: Holy Crap Feds Are Going To Take Over Concealed Carry Permits With New Reciprocity Law Please Read
It was an email from the virginia gun owners coalition. I'm at work and can't view their site right now. All I can post is the email. They are a reputable group and what they say would appear true.

www.vgoc.org
Enlilson

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07/21/2009 01:12 PM
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Re: Holy Crap Feds Are Going To Take Over Concealed Carry Permits With New Reciprocity Law Please Read
Printz v. U.S. (521 U.S. 898) the U.S. Supreme Court struck Brady down. Associate Justice Antonin Scalia wrote the ruling for the Court, in which he explained our system of government at length. The justly revered system of checks and balances is the key:

“. . . The great innovation of this design was that ‘our citizens would have two political capacities, one state and one federal, each protected from incursion by the other’” – “a legal system unprecedented in form and design, establishing two orders of government, each with its own direct relationship, its own privity, its own set of mutual rights and obligations to the people who sustain it and are governed by it.” (P. 920)
It doesn't matter who I m it's who U R so ChoOse
mfgl

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07/21/2009 01:15 PM
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Re: Holy Crap Feds Are Going To Take Over Concealed Carry Permits With New Reciprocity Law Please Read
The feds already have a database. Permit holders are not protected in any way. When you apply for your permit you have to get the same background check thru the fbi that you get when you purchase a handgun. If you think those records arent shared your high. Also this is barely an issue. Most states that allow ccw are already in a reciprocity agreement with every other state that allows it.
Evil Twin

07/21/2009 01:15 PM
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Re: Holy Crap Feds Are Going To Take Over Concealed Carry Permits With New Reciprocity Law Please Read
Never trust the feds.
Cranky

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07/21/2009 01:19 PM
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Re: Holy Crap Feds Are Going To Take Over Concealed Carry Permits With New Reciprocity Law Please Read
There is already a Federal Law that makes it our responsibility and right to own and carry weapons called the 2nd Amendment!

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

This LAW was ratified to PROHIBIT the GOVERNMENT from in any way infringing on the RIGHT OF THE PEEEEPOLE!
Enlilson

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07/21/2009 01:23 PM
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Re: Holy Crap Feds Are Going To Take Over Concealed Carry Permits With New Reciprocity Law Please Read
There was a recent ruling in California that reaffirmed the role of the Sheriff with regards to concealed weapons permit.

The feds could make a law it just has to be able to with stand a court challenge.
It doesn't matter who I m it's who U R so ChoOse
Evil Twin

07/21/2009 01:25 PM
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Re: Holy Crap Feds Are Going To Take Over Concealed Carry Permits With New Reciprocity Law Please Read
There is already a Federal Law that makes it our responsibility and right to own and carry weapons called the 2nd Amendment!

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

This LAW was ratified to PROHIBIT the GOVERNMENT from in any way infringing on the RIGHT OF THE PEEEEPOLE!
 Quoting: Cranky



[link to www.youtube.com]
Anonymous Coward
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07/21/2009 01:42 PM
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Re: Holy Crap Feds Are Going To Take Over Concealed Carry Permits With New Reciprocity Law Please Read
Nothing that comes from Washington DC should be trusted. The whole country would be a lot better off if we could do away with 90% of the federal government and return state and local governments rule back to the several states and local municipalites. My right to keep and bare arms is not just something the federal government benevolently allows me and neither should the carry permit I purchase from my state and local officials.
Anonymous Coward
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07/21/2009 01:45 PM
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Re: Holy Crap Feds Are Going To Take Over Concealed Carry Permits With New Reciprocity Law Please Read
This wouldn't be the first time the NRA had went along with a bill that wasn't in the best interests of gun owners. Sometimes with all the crap they try to jam through I just get fatigued from writing and calling about all this stuff. It's like a never ending tsunami of liberty denying legislation.
Anonymous Coward
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07/21/2009 01:58 PM
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Re: Holy Crap Feds Are Going To Take Over Concealed Carry Permits With New Reciprocity Law Please Read
The feds already have a database. Permit holders are not protected in any way. When you apply for your permit you have to get the same background check thru the fbi that you get when you purchase a handgun. If you think those records arent shared your high. Also this is barely an issue. Most states that allow ccw are already in a reciprocity agreement with every other state that allows it.
 Quoting: mfgl


While it's true that anyone who has ever bought a brand new gun has been put in a database (illegally). It is not true that Most states are in reciprocity agreements with other states. In fact most states will only have such agreements with a handful of states 1-5 typically.

More reciprocity is needed, but not this. Not Federal control.
Anonymous Coward
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07/21/2009 01:59 PM
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Re: Holy Crap Feds Are Going To Take Over Concealed Carry Permits With New Reciprocity Law Please Read
Is that going to stop criminals that steal guns and use them, no?

But they dont' care do they? WE ARE THE CRIMINALS, to them, because they are treasonous Nazis.
Anonymous Coward
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07/21/2009 02:04 PM
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Re: Holy Crap Feds Are Going To Take Over Concealed Carry Permits With New Reciprocity Law Please Read
Good ..

Cause people who believed you had to register your property with the federal government are extremely dangerous ..

I bet ya if you could convince these people to vote, they'd prolly sign up for a new government witohut even knowing it.


oh wait .... did I say that ....?
Anonymous Coward
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07/21/2009 02:06 PM
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Re: Holy Crap Feds Are Going To Take Over Concealed Carry Permits With New Reciprocity Law Please Read
There was a recent ruling in California that reaffirmed the role of the Sheriff with regards to concealed weapons permit.

The feds could make a law it just has to be able to with stand a court challenge.
 Quoting: Enlilson


Feds can't make law ...

They can only convince you that the rules that apply to only them ... apply to you ...
Anonymous Coward
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07/21/2009 02:08 PM
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Re: Holy Crap Feds Are Going To Take Over Concealed Carry Permits With New Reciprocity Law Please Read
Don't conceal it then.
[link to opencarry.org]
Anonymous Coward
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07/21/2009 02:16 PM
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Re: Holy Crap Feds Are Going To Take Over Concealed Carry Permits With New Reciprocity Law Please Read
All this will do is take the guns away from honest folks. Then, for protection, everyone will get unregistered weapons- if it passes, which it won't. Obama and them are powerful, but not omnipotent. There are enough hunters and sports shooters who won't give up their guns- and hunters need hand guns just like they need rifles (to kill the animal if the first shot doesn't do the whole job).
Anonymous Coward
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07/21/2009 03:36 PM
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Re: Holy Crap Feds Are Going To Take Over Concealed Carry Permits With New Reciprocity Law Please Read
All this will do is take the guns away from honest folks. Then, for protection, everyone will get unregistered weapons- if it passes, which it won't. Obama and them are powerful, but not omnipotent. There are enough hunters and sports shooters who won't give up their guns- and hunters need hand guns just like they need rifles (to kill the animal if the first shot doesn't do the whole job).
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 693241


Sometimes I wonder ...
JohnnyCarcinogen

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07/22/2009 10:30 AM
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Re: Holy Crap Feds Are Going To Take Over Concealed Carry Permits With New Reciprocity Law Please Read
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are referring to the Thune amendment that does not have anything to do with the hate crime bill. It doesn't even seem to increase federal involvement unless I overlooked something.

Below is the breakdown
(Warning.. PDF file)
[link to www.ooida.com]
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
Anonymous Coward
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07/22/2009 10:47 AM
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Re: Holy Crap Feds Are Going To Take Over Concealed Carry Permits With New Reciprocity Law Please Read
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are referring to the Thune amendment that does not have anything to do with the hate crime bill. It doesn't even seem to increase federal involvement unless I overlooked something.

Below is the breakdown
(Warning.. PDF file)
[link to www.ooida.com]
 Quoting: JohnnyCarcinogen


I think what some groups are saying is that if they pass this you will have some kind of federal oversite. Probably a database and how would they do it? Would you have Vermont's law apply to everybody or California. Once this goes to the Feds and not the state it could open up a can of worms. I think that is the point the group is trying to make although the language of the bill is vague and doesn't really state how they would put this in place. Another vaguely worded law imagine that.





GLP