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Jehovah Witness/ Deception at your Door

 
friendofGod
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03/04/2005 03:28 AM
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Jehovah Witness/ Deception at your Door
You´ve probably encountered them at your door. and you may have seen their ´Watchtower´ or ´Awake! magazines neatly displayed on counters of your local laundromat. The Jehovah Witnesses are probably the most aggressive and fastest growing cult in the world today. They may have your relatives or loved ones gripped by their darkness and lies...I am hoping by this thread that you may gain some info on how to reason with someone you care about, who has been led astray by their false teachings.
There are almost 4.5 million members in the world today and are devoting over a billion man hours a year spreading their false doctrines around the world.

This is not a thread to troll for hate, but I hope that you may gain some knowledge about what they teach, and if you have someone you care about involved with them, I hope that you might gain some knowledge on how to rescue them from the dark hold Jehovah´s have on their members.
James 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:15 AM
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I invite them in with open arms .......then as a Gnostic I gladly tell them all I know about their evil alien demi-urge Jehovah !!

The record is just under 10 minutes before they start bolting for the door
Lester  (OP)

12/08/2005 10:15 AM
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I understand this group, like catholics, to be within the definitional boundaries of "cultism".

That they believe Christ has alread Returned, and that this world is already HIS Perfected component of The Kingdom of God, simply shows the deception at work in their midst.
James 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.
friendofGod  (OP)

12/08/2005 10:15 AM
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yes when they find out that you are not easily led they will do that..they don´t allow there members to visit my house at all anymore..
The thing is a new JW recruit(about 3-4 weeks) is trained with their propoganda and out spreading their doctrines.

they don´t allow their members to study any thing else that is not interpreted by their ´watchtower group´ outside doctrines are like pornography to them
James 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:15 AM
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During their training JW are taught how to anticipate common questions and objections to what people say. Not only doctinal issues with Bible proof texts, they are also trained how to respond to common comebacks...
ie.. if someone says."I´m not interested"..I´m not interested in JW´s" .."I have my own religion"...We are already Christian´s here",.."I´m busy..."Why do you people call so often"..I already know about your work" or "we have no money"
These common comebacks will trigger a response in the JW´s
Their conditioned reprogrammed minds replace what a biblical verse says with what the watchtower says it means.
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:15 AM
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The watchtower warns new followers that friends and relatives may very well be used by Satan to try and dissuade them from remaining with the JW´s..So when a friend or relative does actually try to dissuade a new member the watchtower appears to be a true prophet. This in turn encourages the new member to be even more loyal to the watchtower society...and the friend or relative now being identified with satan, the new convert will scarcly listen to anything they have to say...this is the watchtower´s way of keeping new converts so they can be thoroughly indoctrinated into the cult.
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:15 AM
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I understand this group, like catholics, to be within the definitional boundaries of "cultism".
__________________________________
they are much more deceptive as in the fact that they have a hold on their members lives, at least a catholic can go elsewhere and receive information and truth.
leia too  (OP)

12/08/2005 10:15 AM
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i´ve never had a jehovah´s witness ring the doorbell.
James 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:15 AM
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Lester
JW´s are instructed that unquestioned obediance to Watchtower doctrine is expected of them. If they reject or question the doctrine they can be "disfellowshipped´ - or kicked out of the organization. they are to consider the watchtower as God´s prophetic voice so essentially they are questioning God´s authority, challenging the watchtower is considered an intolerable offence.
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:15 AM
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i´ve never had a jehovah´s witness ring the doorbell
__________________________
they will leia, they have the whole of North america mapped out with a strategy to reach every houshold twice a year
leia too  (OP)

12/08/2005 10:15 AM
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we´ve never gotten many trick-or-treaters either.

perhaps we come off as being dangerous.
James 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.
5150 - Bill  (OP)

12/08/2005 10:15 AM
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OP, the fastest growing religion in the world in wicca, which is the religion that worships Satan. The last number I got was an annual growth rate of 1,500%.

I doubt there will be anyone coming upon this thread who actually knows more or has more personal first hand knowledge and experience with the JW´s than me. I have a relative who stands up at annual conventions and speaks to a crowd of over 10,000 JW´s all seated inside a huge arena. He is revered upon by the other elders. I see this person at least once a week and we share a meal. This has been going on for about eleven years. He is a very good and kind hearted person who has unwittingly been taken advantage of by this corporate cult. He believes he is doing a very good thing. I am outside of his dilemma and realize that he was brainwashed as a young boy.

In the beginning he tried to persuade me into seeing what JW´s like to refer to as "The Truth". They believe "they" are in the truth. They believe that the head council of their corporate organization called the "Governing Body" is a direct channel to God. This Governing Body consist of a twelve board member of very old (90´s) men who reside together in New York´s "Watchtower & Tract Society". The "Watchtower" and "Awake" are the publications by which the governing body communicates with its flock. It also prints countless other books, phamplets, etc.. In fact the JW´s have one of the world´s largest printing capacity.

I have attended countless "meetings" (church being a word they don´t like) at many different Kingdom Halls. That´s what they call their churches, where they hold their primary meetings. They have spent years attempting to convince me that I was missing out on eternal life in paradise Earth. They believe that only 144,000 "annointed ones" will go to heaven and that the rest of humanity will spend eternity in a paradise Earth. No pain, no suffering, no want... absolute utopia. Anyone can see why this attracts people. I found it interesting, their two class system. Everyone gets to be in paradise but only the special 144,000 get into heaven. They don´t build or operate any schools or hospitals. What they do build are more Kingdom Halls and spread their truth in an almost frighteningly organized corporate manner. They also help out in many crisis situations such as flooding, world hunger, hurriances, earthquakes, etc.. They don´t make their financials available to anyone except of course, the IRS. It is almost impossible to determine their corporate net wealth, but just the RE value of the thousands of Kingdom Halls is substantial.

Their meetings are extremely boring, kind of like this posting :) They are always the same. One of the hall elders stands before the congregration and gives a one hour discourse (lecture). It is usually upon a particular subject and in fact the speaker´s talk is actually taken from a pre-approved frame or draft supplied by the organization. The next hour is spent in a call and reply session wherein the congregation studies a recent publication. At first one thinks, well... this is different. Until you´ve been to about 6 of these meetings. You begin to realize there is something very drone about it. They do open and close each meeting with a song but I wouldn´t call it uplifting music. It too is extremely boring and all the hymns are sung in the same style to the same background piano march. They couldn´t make it any more bland if they tried.

I´ve talked to a lot of witnesses and had the opportunity to ask them in a non-offensive casual manner, "so, are your parents in the truth"?

The answer is almost always yes. But they do get a lot of newbies. They finally gave up on me. No matter what kind of logic they attempted they would hear things from me like, "God doesn´t need a corporate organization as his spokesperson, God makes flowers". You´ll find a ton of stuff on the internet on how to deal with the JW´s without being abrasive. They are relentless and it is important that you become properly armed with good information if you are going to conduct an intelligent argument against their views. They are well trainned in the art of what I like to call "Bible verse jumping". They cleverly pick predetermined verses and paste them together into a logic which fits their given answer for any question. It takes a bit of time and skill to become good at using this very art against them.

The JW´s believe that only the governing body is properly enlightened and therefore able to interpret the Bible. Their Bible is their own version called "The New World Translation". This is a term you´ll hear alot around witnesses, The New World. The one which will supposedly replace this evil wicked one. Which sounds like a great idea, but so does Santa Claus. Oh, they hate all holidays and consider them to be demonic. They hate nationalism and refuse to serve in any military. They disdain the current system of world governments but will quickly call upon the government (police) if you threaten them at your door. Most JW kids have it pretty rough and are prohibited from joining in normal extracurriculars such as sports, choir, holiday festivites, scouting and anythhing else which might interfere with the busy business of being a good little witness. They also hate blood transfusions and there has been much courtroom battling about it. They have an excellent legal staff and win most of their cases in court. They claim scriptural understanding backs up every belief the organization holds. They have changed their position on many beliefs many times through the decades. The organization has made more than one end-of-the-world prediction. The last and biggest fiasco was 1975. They justify these changes in belief by saying, "The light is getting brighter".

Once you become a JW you swear before God to obey the word of God as per the JW interpretation. You are expected to attend 3 to 5 meetings a week and to go door to door solicting what they call "The Good News". Your whole life (and family) becomes JW. If you do something which puts you into disfavor with the elders you can be disfellowshipped. During DF, no one is allowed to talk to you or be with you in a practice known as shunning. This includes all family, even immediate. This has lead to many ruined marriages, families and in some unfortunate situations suicide and/or killings.

I did a long exhausted study of their so-called truth. I wanted to make certain I was not overlooking something important, like eternal life. Trust me, they don´t have a channel to God and I would best describe them as fairly nice people who are extremely misguided. Again, if you´re dealing with a situation you will find tons of infomation online to assist you. There are many ex-witnesses.

Conclusion: The JW´s are a cult, and without question more of a cult than most other religions. But then I believe that all religions are a cult like device. I would equate them being just like the Mormons, but different. Both of these groups are big time control freaks. They want to control every aspect of your life.

Well if you´re still reading, my hat is off to you. You´ve heard my views, here´s the offical JW website.

[link to watchtower.org]


--Good Luck in finding whatever it is you´re searching.
James 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.
5150 - Bill  (OP)

12/08/2005 10:15 AM
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Oh, one more thing. If they keep coming around even after you´ve told them nicely you´re not interested... this works for sure:

Get a sign to place near the door which reads,
"Day sleeper - Do not Disturb".


You´ll never see them again.
James 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.
alfyn oakes  (OP)

12/08/2005 10:15 AM
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i had some around the other day

i accused them of being liars,
as they told me the world was only 6004 years old,
i said "thats impossible,you told me that at least 3 years ago as well"!.

moral:"it`s later than you think"
James 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.
EscapeAll TheseThings  (OP)

12/08/2005 10:15 AM
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well said 5150-Bill. Great post.

This is a truth that so many miss. All religions require you to follow men without question or face being kicked out for having a different understanding or opinion.

The real faith of the Bible is not focused on everyone beleiving the same. In fact it leaves most things in question and open to interpretation. The one thing it is clear on is we are to love God and keep his commandments so that we can all have a good peaceful life now and eternally in his Kingdom.

I´m amazed at how many years I attended church and did not notice that none of the righteous figures of the Bible acted like a christian, hung up on creeds, or a Jew, hung up on tradition (additions to the Bible viewed as commandments). Instead you see them all having a personal relationship with God and mostly standing out as different from those around them--even when they were surrounded by God´s chosen people Israel who all heard the voice of God at Sinai.

JW´s are just an extreme example of following men instead of God´s word. But all religions distract you from the narrow path of walking with God taught only in the pages of the Bible. They turn you off from discovering best selling book of all time which is capable of no less than predicting the future (which is how we know it did not come from the mind of man like the religions that claim to be based on it).

www.EscapeAllTheseThings.com
James 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:15 AM
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I´m trying to figure out, other than if you are a Christian who is afraid that JW´s will go to Hell, what exactly is the danger in being a JW?

So it´s a cult. People are allowed to be in cults so long as they aren´t harmed, and don´t harm others. I´ve always found their beliefs to be odd, but most if not all JWs I have ever met (my ex-mother-in-law was one) have been really nice selfless people.

I do wish they wouldn´t come to my door, though. If they would stop that crap I would have no trouble at all with the existence of JWs.

Anyway, my point is in a secular environment, what exactly is the issue with JWs?
Unlluminati  (OP)

12/08/2005 10:15 AM
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I had some here a while back. I didn´t let them in though I walked outside with them as it was a nice day. They started their spiel about who they were and what they believed but I cut them off and told them I didn´t follow organized religions. The man in the group said I needed a church and a group of likeminded believers to support my faith. I told the guy that we were already in my church. I motioned him to look at the fields, horses and cows around us and told him this is my church why do I need your to help me appreciate the hand of God at work in all this. Well that just about did it for them, they thanked me for my time and left quick.
James 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:15 AM
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""OP, the fastest growing religion in the world in wicca, which is the religion that worships Satan. The last number I got was an annual growth rate of 1,500%.""
51-50 Bill you don´t seem to know much about Wiccian or Pagan religions. It seems your making the common error of mixing Pagans up with Satanists. They don´t believe in Satan nor are there any references to Satan or a Satan like figure in their texts. It´s an Earth based religion. Although "Wicca" itself is only a little more than 50 years old it is based on the old religion that goes back 1000´s of years before Christianity. Many of the Pagan holy days and customs were turned into Christian ones in order to convert the general population of Europe to Chistianity.
Satan is a Christian invention.
magoose  (OP)

12/08/2005 10:15 AM
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JWs is an occult.

why: simply because they are not christians.
They do not believe Jesus is God mad man. They
believe that God made Jesus, but yet before he
was born on this pitiful earth, he was St. Michael in heave. Figure that out. As a result of not
believing that Jesus is true God, true man, they
cannot and do not believe in the Blessed Trinity.

So therefore they are not christians nor can be one until they accept the truth.

Not only this JW somehow are able to draw their
victim from their families and isolate them and make them rather cold and very distant. The victims allow themselves to be "kidnapped" from their families and are very hard to get back.

I know, my brother-in-law do exactly that. The day he told me he was going to study JW and wanted to know bibical history - I told him to go a be a buddist instead and the library has thousands of books of biblical history without joining a cult. He didn´t listen.

They also are taught only "certain" verses, chapters and books are for the elite 144,000 but
don´t know which ones. So reading the first three might be for you but the next ones are for the elitists.
THEY´RE SO MESSED UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!stars
James 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:15 AM
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what does "only begotten" mean?




John 1:14 - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 1:18 - No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:18 - He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Hebrews 11:17 - By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

1 John 4:9 - In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.


Begotten (Page: 133)
Be*got"ten (?), p. p. of Beget.

[link to machaut.uchicago.edu]

Be*get" (?), v. t. [imp. Begot (?), (Archaic) Begat (); p. p. Begot, Begotten (); p. pr. & vb. n. Begetting.] [OE. bigiten, bigeten, to get, beget, AS. begitan to get; pref. be- + gitan. See Get, v. t. ]

1. To procreate, as a father or sire; to generate; -- commonly said of the father.

Yet they a beauteous offspring shall beget. Milton.
2. To get (with child.) [Obs.] Shak.

3. To produce as an effect; to cause to exist.

Love is begot by fancy. Granville.
[link to machaut.uchicago.edu]

Jesus never once claimed to be equal with God in fact He always called Him Father and said the the Father was greater than Him

John 14:28 - Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:15 AM
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OP

it is always easy to attack the things we do not understand about others, it happens all of the time

no one group has all of the answers, at least JW´s put their whole heart into what they believe to be pleasing to God, how many can say this
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:15 AM
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Let´s see, there are over 6 million now and growing. They don´t participate in Pagan holidays nor teach anything else Pagan( the Trinity for example), they don´t have a clergy class(many men or elders like in Jesus´ day run each congregation which has no more than 150 people, if they get more they split and share or build another hall) and no one gets paid for what they do(you get free you give free)no passing plates in their meetings(no one has a right to know what you give except God Himself), they also split up and meet in private homes each week as in Jesus´ day(they really don´t need their halls to keep themselves together) they stay out of politics and war like Jesus did, they will go to jail before participating in war and Hitler hated them for this and put them in concentration camps(all they had to do was sign a letter denouncing their religion and they were free, only a few did this and later came back to the camps), they preach like Jesus commanded his disciples to do and are aware they will be hated because even Jesus said if he was hated his followers will be hated, and yeah their meetings may be boring to some use to charismatic churches or churches filled with elaborate ceremonies, but the halls are really schools for them and they go to learn and worship like first century Christians did(it is not suppose to be a social club or something you do that just gives you a warm fuzzy feeling). And the witnesses come from all walks of life and most know more about other religions than the people that practice them, and they only follow the Bible which of course is a translation but all are if they are not in the original language.

here is the official website

[link to watchtower.org]


this is who they are

[link to watchtower.org]


and here is more about them

[link to watchtower.org]
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:15 AM
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I have always heard that the Jehova´s Witness Founder was a York Rite Mason. Like the Mormons, the JW are supposedly founded by masons.

The only thing I can say about JW is watch out. Sometimes the JW´s that visit are using it as a cover for multi-stalking activities. For more on multi-stalking:

[link to www.multistalkervictims.org]
[link to www.gangstalking.ca]
[link to www.raven1.net]
[link to www.stopcovertwar.com]
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:15 AM
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I have always heard that the Jehova´s Witness Founder was a York Rite Mason. Like the Mormons, the JW are supposedly founded by masons.






This is true of many men back then and many founders of certain Christian religions. But you will find no masonic trappings in their religion at all. There is nothing secretive or ceremonial. Everything is open to the public and run like the first century congregations. It is ALL BIBLE based.
cdwarior  (OP)

12/08/2005 10:15 AM
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We were going to add a second story to our house. The township supervisor told us the building inspector would be over at 5:30 to look at the structure. He was a very busy man so make it short and to the point. 5:30 rolls around and there is a knock at the door. There is a guy and little boy, both in suits and the guy has a clipboard. I say, "I´ve been waiting for you, come in." I take him through the house, basement to attic, point out the load bearing walls, where the contractor will put up supports, the ductwork paths, the auxilliary power panel etc. The guy takes, notes, nods and seems very impressed. I ask him when can I get my permit and begin as my wife is 7 mos pregnant and I want to get the show on the road. The guy says "I don´t think you understand." and hands me one of his cards and he a JW. I say "Get out of here, I´m waiting for someone." and toss them out. I guess he thought he caught a live one...
James 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:15 AM
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Fair enough.

By the way, what I pointed out about the multi-stalking isn´t necessarily done by real JW´s but impersonators.
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:15 AM
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f
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:15 AM
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The guy says "I don´t think you understand." and hands me one of his cards and he a JW. I say "Get out of here, I´m waiting for someone." and toss them out.





So the JW was pleasant even though you confused the guy by INVITING him in. Then you were mean to him and tossed him out as you say when it wasn´t even his fault he was invited inside Looks like you need to make sure who you ask into your home and when *you* make a mistake it would be nice if you were apologetic about it. You know you don´t have to be rude. The man wasn´t according to what you wrote. That is what is really wrong with this world. People can´t even be nice to each other anymore. What you wrote says more about you and you being rude then the JW´s who just come to your house to talk about Jesus and his Father and hope. They didn´t push themselves into your house. You invited them.
GoldSolace  (OP)

12/08/2005 10:15 AM
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I admit they can be annoying...

But that doesn´t mean their beliefs should be shunned.
James 2:23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God.
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:15 AM
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Anyone can be annoying but we all need to show love among ourselves. And patience. There is nothing to be gained by being rude or mean. We have enough of that in this world.
Anonymous Coward
12/08/2005 10:15 AM
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they met with me once a week for about a year. we (well at least i) had fun refuting their non-biblical dogmas. they don´t come around anymore. nice folks, slaves to the J-dub org. sheep





GLP