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Are we being worn down? Are we being pushed?

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 702997
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08/29/2009 11:39 PM
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Re: Are we being worn down? Are we being pushed?
Us too, must divide the good from the bad = the wheat from the chaf.
......

MC
 Quoting: MagiChristmas



Hi there,

sincerely. Good luck with that act of 'dividing'. ;)


but what if, it is by the very acts, thoughts, expressions, and state of being for one that may play a determining factor, ahem, if one is a 'wheat or a chaff' right? to some extent at least?

im just saying, if like say you felt the need to punch or heck even burn another... even in your god's name..

could one 'gloss over' the evil that you do/did, expressed darkness, and to run behind your god (or more the codes and the laws) to justify what you did was entirely all right?

i just gotta know.

that would be like running up to a Christed one and proudly exclaiming how one burned another in their name.. (maybe get a little old school Rebuking)

it would be weird for sure... to some level at least. is this crazy talk?


Thank you
MagiChristmas

User ID: 748028
United States
08/29/2009 11:45 PM
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Re: Are we being worn down? Are we being pushed?
Lets not  get caught up  in the bible guys ( distraction )

I sure the OP is well aware that  some my try and take him off course  fromhis path .... Im just saying .
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 758891


The bible is an essential ingredient of the real truth. 

The chaf must howevere be seperated from the tares, per this thread:

Modern, sectarian Christians hang Bible verses like ornaments on an artificial tree constructed of man-made creeds, ignoring the passages which conflict with or contradict their doctrines. In the process, they have allowed a number of myths about the Bible to be promulgated because it serves their own ends. The following eight myths are summarized from "Here We Stand" by Joseph Fielding McConkie.

Thread: Myths About the Bible - UPDATE = Add Myth # 8 - doctors of Mythology respond?

My log of direct links is my own FAQ of what I know is true. 

I was present when the following seven segment video was filmed = watch the movie, then read the book. speedbanan

See how this guys "Library of Serial Killer" led him to QUESTION BOLDLY and ask HONEST QUESTIONS as he and his family undertook an investgative tour of the various churches, on a obsesive quest to uncover the truth. speedbanan

[link to www.youtube.com]
[link to www.youtube.com]
[link to www.youtube.com]
[link to www.youtube.com]
[link to www.youtube.com]
[link to www.youtube.com]
[link to www.youtube.com]

The FUSION of Entertainment & Enlightenment to the 7th degree. :pingu2:

A comprehensive FAQ of the restored church:
[link to www.jefflindsay.com]

This post was not added to my Log of Direct Links:  
Thread: Tips for improving the GLP experience.

MC
The deception continues to crumble.
Thread: Tips for improving the GLP experience.
Christ was mischaracterized to the point of Crucifixion.
MagiChristmas

User ID: 759336
United States
08/30/2009 12:21 AM
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Re: Are we being worn down? Are we being pushed?
Nephi's Killing of Laban: Could Satan Deceive Nephi?

Us too, must divide the good from the bad = the wheat from the chaf.
......

MC


Hi there,

sincerely. Good luck with that act of 'dividing'. ;)


but what if, it is by the very acts, thoughts, expressions, and state of being for one that may play a determining factor, ahem, if one is a 'wheat or a chaff' right? to some extent at least?

im just saying, if like say you felt the need to punch or heck even burn another... even in your god's name..

could one 'gloss over' the evil that you do/did, expressed darkness, and to run behind your god (or more the codes and the laws) to justify what you did was entirely all right?

i just gotta know.

that would be like running up to a Christed one and proudly exclaiming how one burned another in their name.. (maybe get a little old school Rebuking)

it would be weird for sure... to some level at least. is this crazy talk?


Thank you
Nephi's Killing of Laban: Could Satan Deceive Nephi?

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 702997


AC, this is from the first book of the Book of Mormon which reminds me of Glenn Becks shows of last week where he made a correction, right at the opening of his show rather than burrying it on page whatever like newspapers are apt to do.

Nephi's Killing of Laban: Could Satan Deceive Nephi?  

Criticism
Critics charge that the story of Nephi being told by God to slay Laban (found in 1Ne. 4:5-18 ) is problematic because

The angel which came to Nephi could have been a demonic "angel of light" sent to deceive him;

Nephi was listening to "a voice in his head" telling him to kill Laban; this could be psychosis or delusion.
Answer
The Book of Mormon provides abundant textual evidence which puts these issues to rest.

Previous revelation
Nephi did not receive the command to kill Laban in a vacuum. It was not his first experience with God. Prior to being sent back to Jerusalem for the brass plates, Nephi had experiences with God:

And it came to pass that I, Nephi, being exceedingly young, nevertheless being large in stature, and also having great desires to know of the mysteries of God, wherefore, I did cry unto the Lord; and behold he did visit me, and did soften my heart that I did believe all the words which had been spoken by my father; wherefore, I did not rebel against him like unto my brothers. And I spake unto Sam, making known unto him the things which the Lord had manifested unto me by his Holy Spirit. ( 1Ne. 2:16-17 )

Nephi began his "spiritual journey" by having his heart softened by the Lord by the Holy Ghost. This then leads to a more direct experience with the Lord:

And it came to pass that the Lord spake unto me, saying: Blessed art thou, Nephi, because of thy faith, for thou hast sought me diligently, with lowliness of heart.

And inasmuch as ye shall keep my commandments, ye shall prosper, and shall be led to a land of promise; yea, even a land which I have prepared for you; yea, a land which is choice above all other lands. And inasmuch as thy brethren shall rebel against thee, they shall be cut off from the presence of the Lord. And inasmuch as thou shalt keep my commandments, thou shalt be made a ruler and a teacher over thy brethren. ( 1Ne. 2:19-22 )

Nephi here has more than the "Holy Ghost." He has the Lord "speaking" to him, which seems to be something more direct than the Holy Ghost. Nephi has actually heard the divine voice speaking to Him.

The Angel
Nephi and his brothers twice attempt to recover the plates. In both cases, Laban attempts to murder them. (See: Nephi and Laban: Legal issues .) The brothers hide in a cave, and Laman and Lemuel begin to beat Nephi and Sam with a rod:

And it came to pass as they smote us with a rod, behold, an angel of the Lord came and stood before them, and he spake unto them, saying: Why do ye smite your younger brother with a rod? Know ye not that the Lord hath chosen him to be a ruler over you, and this because of your iniquities? Behold ye shall go up to Jerusalem again, and the Lord will deliver Laban into your hands. And after the angel had spoken unto us, he departed. ( 1Ne. 3:29-30 .)

Critics charge that this could be a devil appearing as "an angel of light" to mislead Nephi. The critics, however, overlook the contents of the angel's message: he has told Laman and Lemuel that Nephi will rule over them, which is something that God has already told Nephi privately. Since Satan does not know the mind of God ( Mos. 4:6 ), a demonic messenger would be unaware of the Lord's previous message to Nephi.

The divine messenger's words would also be accompanied by the spirit of the Lord, with which Nephi also already has experience. Thus, his spiritual witnesses form an interlocking, mutually reinforcing witness. Satan cannot counterfeit the influence of the Holy Ghost, nor can he access the mind of God to mimic the Lord's message to Nephi, unless the critics wish us to conclude that Satan can "eavesdrop" on God's conversations with others.

The Command to Kill
Nephi has been told by the angel that he is to go back to Jerusalem, and that the Lord will "deliver Laban into your hands" ( 1Ne. 2:29 ). Thus, the idea that the Lord will cause Laban's death has already been mentioned by a divine messenger, as discussed above.

Nephi finds the drunken Laban, "[a]nd it came to pass that I was constrained by the Spirit that I should kill Laban" ( 1Ne. 4:10 ). Nephi's reaction is interesting: "but I said in my heart : Never at any time have I shed the blood of man" ( 1Ne. 4:10, emphasis added).

Nephi is not speaking aloud—one cannot, therefore, conclude that the voice of "the spirit" was, in fact, an evil power giving him commands. LDS theology holds that Satan cannot know the thoughts of mortal hearts, save if mortals express those thoughts through words and actions. (D&C 6:16: Yea, I tell thee, that thou mayest know that there is none else save God that knowest thy thoughts and the intents of thy heart.)

Nephi thus replies to the voice in his mind , and gets a reply to his concern—clear evidence that it is not an evil spirit with whom he is conversing, since an evil spirit would have no access to his inner thoughts, as God or the Holy Spirit would.

A secularist critic at this point might insist that Nephi is merely listening to himself in his head—he is delusional or psychotic. This position would be a possibility, were it not for the fact that Nephi has already seen an angel , whose divine credentials are clear. And, Nephi has not seen this being alone—his three brothers have also seen, including Laman and Lemuel, who are not inclined to do more to recover the plates. Thus, Nephi can be confident that the angel is no delusion, and the angel has both reinforced what God told him earlier, and given him a command to go back and find Laban.

After Nephi's initial mental refusal to kill Laban, the Spirit speaks to him twice more, and provides Nephi's mind with thoughts and reasons to obey the Lord:

"Behold the Lord hath delivered him into thy hands." ( 1Ne. 4:11 - the Spirit says the same thing that the angel told Nephi would happen.

"I also knew that he had sought to take away mine own life; yea, and he would not hearken unto the commandments of the Lord; and he also had taken away our property." ( 1Ne. 4:11 ).

"And it came to pass that the Spirit said unto me again: Slay him, for the Lord hath delivered him into thy hands' Behold the Lord slayeth the wicked to bring forth his righteous purposes. It is better that one man should perish than that a nation should dwindle and perish in unbelief" ( 1Ne. 4:12-13 ).
The Spirit again repeats the angel's message, and Nephi then realizes that this commandment ties into something which the Lord told him earlier:

I remembered the words of the Lord which he spake unto me in the wilderness, saying that: Inasmuch as thy seed shall keep my commandments, they shall prosper in the land of promise. Yea, and I also thought that they could not keep the commandments of the Lord according to the law of Moses, save they should have the law. And I also knew that the law was engraven upon the plates of brass ( 1Ne. 4:14-16 ).

Conclusion
Nephi has experience with both the voice of the Spirit and the voice of the Lord prior to being sent to Jerusalem .
The angel's credentials are established by his telling Laman and Lemuel something which God had previously only told Nephi.

The fact that the Nephi is having his "discussion" with the spirit while standing over Laban is clear evidence that he is not discoursing with a demonic power, since such powers have no access to inner mental states.

The "inner discussion" is also unlikely to merely be a delusion, since

(a) Nephi is being told to do something he does not want to do;

(b) He gets the same message repeatedly, with further information. 

(c) The further information invokes what God has told him previously by both the Holy Ghost and the voice of the Lord;

(d) The angel, visible to Nephi and his brothers provides another witness, since he commanded Nephi to go back to the city and promised/warned than Laban would be delivered into Nephi's hands.

Any witness alone might be questionable—but, the interlocking witnesses available to Nephi give him ample reason for confidence. No other explanation matches all the data, except that the angel and the voice of the Spirit both spoke from a divine source.   D&C 6:16 : Yea, I tell thee, that thou mayest know that there is none else save God that knowest thy thoughts and the intents of thy heart.

For more information the following articles address this and related issues.

[link to en.fairmormon.org]

[link to en.fairmormon.org]

Article with Active links:
[link to www.meridianmagazine.com]

Next = Do Christian Soldiers go to Hell?

This post WAS added to my Log of Direct Links:  
Thread: Tips for improving the GLP experience.

Last Edited by X^24 on 08/30/2009 12:22 AM
The deception continues to crumble.
Thread: Tips for improving the GLP experience.
Christ was mischaracterized to the point of Crucifixion.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 702997
United States
08/30/2009 12:34 AM
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Re: Are we being worn down? Are we being pushed?
Nephi's Killing of Laban: Could Satan Deceive Nephi?



AC, this is from the first book of the Book of Mormon which reminds me of Glenn Becks shows of last week where he made a correction, right at the opening of his show rather than burrying it on page whatever like newspapers are apt to do.

Nephi's Killing of Laban: Could Satan Deceive Nephi?  

Criticism
Critics charge that the story of Nephi being told by God to slay Laban (found in 1Ne. 4:5-18 ) is problematic because
..

 Quoting: MagiChristmas



Hi there,

that was along form of response now wasn't it? i got home from work and must retire for more tomorrow...

perhaps i may have a chance to read this tomorrow from work as well. ;)

so... mormons, do i need to be a Mormon to understand all that tomorrow? ;)

but thank you for sharing. good night.

also, when you are out doing your dividing thing for god, and not being decieved and all, just please do onto others as you would have them do unto you at least. ;)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 702997
United States
08/30/2009 12:41 AM
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Re: Are we being worn down? Are we being pushed?
Hey OP..

The HOKEY POKEY IS WHAT ITS ALL ABOUT!!!

Sing along...



We put obama in,
And kick common sense out,
He makes all kinds of promises
And the sheeple clap and shout,
We do the hokey pokey
as we wear your will right down
And THATS what it's all about.

OHHHH hokey hokey pokey
They sing and dance and think its all a jokey
as your future..it all goes up in smokey
And THATS what its all about!

We let the yes men in
and kick the opposers out
We ram through the legislation
Thats designed to wipe you out
Rakin in a fortune
while the sheople scream and shout
and THATS what its all about

OHHHH hokey hokey pokey
We drink champagne while all the people go brokey
givem flouride they'l think its okey dokey
And THATS what its all about!

We let the communists in
and kick the constitution out
Its just a goddamned peice of paper
Or so we treat it now
well fuck up the economy..and pour another round
And THATS what its all about.

OHHH hokey hokey pokey
We'll rule the world and send the people brokey
as your hope all goes up in smokey
and THATS what its all about.


we put the squalene in
and take the doom trains out
set up the concentration camps
and send the soldiers out
to round up all the dissenters
and those who raised a shout
and THATS what its all about

OHHHH hokey hokey pokey
now they know that its not a jokey
but its too late cause now they are just smokey
thats what the camps are all about
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 759194



Hi there,

if i may ask, did you run across this song or did you write this?

reason i ask is that it seems familiar to me, like i heard it before somewhere... but after reading the lyrics... get a sense of cosmic-ironic-satire to some level.

did you see a lovely lady with glasses sing this on youtube somewhere?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 752997
Canada
08/30/2009 01:01 AM
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Re: Are we being worn down? Are we being pushed?
BE THE CHANGE YOU WANT TO SEE!

Be kinder than necessary. Keep your head when all about you are losing theirs. Be a leader. Model respectfulness, intelligent thought, calm dignity, courage, hope, faith, equality

and get a bumper sticker for your car blwkss

NO MORE WAR
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 759307
United States
08/30/2009 11:00 AM
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Re: Are we being worn down? Are we being pushed?
Simple formula


first - you divided them

Second - you feed and water them - with brain altering
chemicals so they
notice/ask zero

Third - you entertain them - with mind dumbing trivia


When ready, you reap what you sow! This is Now!


Why?

Because they, the overlords of this planet are hard wire programmed to do their job of keeping you from discovering anything of use to you but more importantly anything that gets you near to their real world.
 Quoting: CP 759155



Their realm is no more 'real' than this one. They are a hive mind mentality, which is their great strength but also their fatal weakness. Their queen is ancient and insane and has no successor. When she finally dies, the frequency which codes for their realm, which is broadcast by her, will die as well. All we need to do is focus on a reality which is no longer entrained to that frequency. This requires both imagination and discernment as that frequency has been so powerful for so very very long . . .
MagiChristmas

User ID: 554973
United States
08/30/2009 02:50 PM
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Re: Are we being worn down? Are we being pushed?
The chaff must however be seperated from the tares. 

Lets not  get caught up  in the bible guys (distraction)

I sure the OP is well aware that  some my try and take him off course  from his path .... Im just saying .
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 758891


The bible is an essential ingredient of the real truth. 

The chaff must however be seperated from the tares, per this thread:

Modern, sectarian Christians hang Bible verses like ornaments on an artificial tree constructed of man-made creeds, ignoring the passages which conflict with or contradict their doctrines. In the process, they have allowed a number of myths about the Bible to be promulgated because it serves their own ends. The following eight myths are summarized from "Here We Stand" by Joseph Fielding McConkie.

Thread: Myths About the Bible - UPDATE = Add Myth # 8 - doctors of Mythology respond?

My log of direct links is my own FAQ of what I know is true. 

I was present when the following seven segment video was filmed = watch the movie, then read the book. speedbanan

See how this guys "Library of Serial Killer" led him to QUESTION BOLDLY and ask HONEST QUESTIONS as he and his family undertook an investgative tour of the various churches, on a obsesive quest to uncover the truth. speedbanan

[link to www.youtube.com]
[link to www.youtube.com]
[link to www.youtube.com]
[link to www.youtube.com]
[link to www.youtube.com]
[link to www.youtube.com]
[link to www.youtube.com]

The FUSION of Entertainment & Enlightenment to the 7th degree. :pingu2:

A comprehensive FAQ of the restored church:
[link to www.jefflindsay.com]

This post WAS added to my Log of Direct Links:  
Thread: Tips for improving the GLP experience.

MC

Last Edited by X^24 on 08/30/2009 02:53 PM
The deception continues to crumble.
Thread: Tips for improving the GLP experience.
Christ was mischaracterized to the point of Crucifixion.





GLP