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Clear concrete proof that 'GOD' of Bible/Koran/Talmud is false.

 
ShadowFox
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Clear concrete proof that 'GOD' of Bible/Koran/Talmud is false.
All 3 are basically Abrahamic religion/faiths.


Abraham was asked by God to sacrifice one of his sons.


Muslims/Christians argue for eons over which son was the one sacrificed..


But these morons overlooked one thing.


Their God is supposed to be All-Loving, All-Mighty, All-Knowing.


If God is All-Loving, he need not asked Abraham to kill one of his sons.


If it is to test Abraham's faith, then this GOD is not All-Knowing because he cannot read what is in Abraham's mind. He is not Al-Mighty and not telepathic.


Therefore the conclusion is this 'GOD' that Christians, Jews, and Muslims worship is nothing more than mortals with high tech toys and intellect.... far advanced beyond primitive intellectuals at the time.

The Alien GOD with EGO theory is beginning to sound more and more plausible.


Man's ability to reason and love has been suppressed by brainwashing from cruel EGOistic ET Gods. This simple Abrahamic tale is enough to discredit the entire Abrahamic faith.


Where is the LOVE ?
Anonymous Coward
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09/05/2009 01:17 AM
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Re: Clear concrete proof that 'GOD' of Bible/Koran/Talmud is false.
You're right, except he isnt fake. He is all too real though I don't know if he still has the influence he did then. There are gods out there (what we have called gods in our past) that are not after blood. They truly wish to see us through our time here on earth.
ShadowFox  (OP)

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Re: Clear concrete proof that 'GOD' of Bible/Koran/Talmud is false.
If GOD is almighty he would've just let Abraham went ahead and kill his son, then he would resurrect the son instantly.
urantian
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09/05/2009 01:34 AM
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Re: Clear concrete proof that 'GOD' of Bible/Koran/Talmud is false.
phoenix journals WORD OF GOD TODAY


[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]



Some examples


[link to abundanthope.net]


A brief quote from God/Aton:


Sorry if it is too long. May you find the real one here.


IN THE BEGINNING



In the beginning God, the Father. The Father is Light, the still Light of the Spirit Whom no Man can see. The dwelling place of the Father is the Kingdom of Heaven, and it is without form and void.



In the Light is the seed of Creation, and the Light is Father of the seed. In the Light is Being, and in the seed is desire for Being. And desire in the seed is soul in the seed. The Father in Heaven knows His Idea. He knows it as ONE, the undivided ONE. In the Father Light is the seed of all-knowing. In Him is two-fold desire to unfold and refold His seed of all-knowing into imaged forms of His imagining, by dividing wholeness into parts, stillness into motion, unchanging into changing, unconditioned into conditioned, void into form, infinity into measure, eternity into time and immortality into mortality.



The Spirit of God moved to fulfill His two desires and said: "Let there be Light, and let darkness shine out of Light and Light out of darkness.” And it was so. The One Light of the Father in His Kingdom of Heaven divided the void. And behold, two father-mother lights of nightless suns shone out of the darkness of the void and day appeared in undivided oneness of everlasting day.



And the Father centered His suns as seed of His desire that forms should appear from formless Light to fulfill His desire for division of the One into many di­vided ones formed in the image of His imagining.



And mighty polar breathings of desire within the nightless suns begat earths to course sun's far heavens to divide the day and give night to day to mate the day. And lo! night was born on earths from nightless day and day was born from night. Are we together so far? Now wait a minute--I DID NOT SAY "ON EARTH". You are a smug and conceited lot on Earth, are you not?



God saw that it was pretty good that each of the two, begat from One, was born of each other, to disappear into the One, to reappear as the other. Thus the One Light of God's knowing extended to the two of His thinking, pulsed as the three of all creating things, the One centering the two, the two extended from the One; the Spirit; the Father-Mother polarity of Light; the Trinity centering the shaft of Creations' seeming fulcrum of its heartbeat, ALL ONE .



The manner of the extension of God's knowing to His thinking was as follows: The Father of the Kingdom extended His arms of still Light unto His heaven and said to one: "Sit here and look inward. Be the seed of My knowing for repeating My thinking. Refold the forms of My imagining within your stillness and give them back to Me for resurrection in the imaged forms of My imagining."



And to the other Light the centering Spirit said: "Sit here and look outward. Be the womb of My knowing for borning My thinking. Unfold my seed from the stillness of seed and give earth forms of them to heavens to manifest Me.



"Mother My thinking; and let your name be South, for South in Light means outward breathing from the seed into their heavens. Interweave your threads of light of earths and suns with threads of light from heavens into patterns of My thinking extended from My knowing to manifest My knowing."



To the North and South the Father said: "Behold in you and Me the firmament of my desiring to mirror the Light of My knowing into Father-Mother forms of My imagining."



And earths appeared below and heavens above the firmament, each being each, each mirrored from the other to become the other.



Come now, Chelas, sic, sic; you have been nagging and nagging that we "get on with it--and you over and over again said that you are ready already. But oops, no big bang and no coming from the seal to evolve from a fish? No apes? Just Light, and thought and wham, bam, there it is? Well, I think most carefully, little ones. For lo! knowing that I can create anything which I desire, all imaginings in seed of earths unfolded into the heavens for heaven's refolding into patterned seed of earths for earth's reborning; and behold, God's imaginings pulsed with life of His imaginings within His omnipresent Kingdom. I rather like this game, don't you? Continuing, God divided the waters from the waters: those which were under the firmament from those which were above the firmament, and each were of each, and each of the other. ("firmament" meaning the vault or arch of the sky, lest we overload you.) Now this was very good. All things were thus divided, as two halves of one which never could be one, but must forever born the other from each other to manifest the KNOWING of the ONE as the two opposed desires of His thinking. This was a really fine game.



The all-knowing was in the Light. And God sowed seed-suns of all-knowing Light unto far reaches of the firmament for borning into patterned images of His own imagining. Then the planets began to come forth in life and bring forth grass, and herb-yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind--and this, too, was good.



So too did the seas begin to bear life and great whales came forth, and every living creature that moved and had life, and fowl that might fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven-- all created for a wondrous placement for you of the most wondrous creations of all.



Then it was decreed that the earth would bring forth the living creatures after his kind, cattle, and creeping things, and beasts of the earth after his kind--and it was so. And you know what? At that point it was very good and pleasing, this tapestry of thought projected throughout the universe of infinity.



Then came a very interesting experiment in creating--of course, that was MAN. Man was created in Spirit as the direct, reflection of the thought-form of God. In the beginning God could whisper to Man and, while Man was new, he listened--but as the compression crushed upon Man and he forgot, so did he cease ' to hear the soft whispers. So, we pushed it a bit further and gave man "knowing" and allowed him, in the image of God, to have dominion over those nice fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth--for by now the planets were come to life and it was good that the orbs have caretakers and stewards.



And lo, man knew God in him and emerged from the dark of his jungle into dawn of the Light in him and turned is eyes upward toward the Mount of his ascension from sensing into knowing. And man desired his ascension into the Light. And God could see that it was good and dwelt within Man to give him the Light of all-knowing, as awakening Man desired the Light of all knowing. Did something go wrong? No, it has gone exactly as was predicted-- it is simply that some of the Creations are farther along on the path within the cycle than are others and that, too, is a process of sensing which can move into Knowing and then on into Thinking wherein Man can become One with the Creator and create that which he finds to be "good".



Ah, but it comes with responsibility, beloved little fragments-great responsibility not to botch a universe. You ones get too big for your pantaloons and begin to tear the place up in the cycle of negative destruction which is of evil-dark intent before you can find the better way within the cycle back unto goodness and responsibility and into Oneness again with Creator.



Oh, you wanted this from Little Crow so you could better understand it? What is there, precious ones, that you do not understand? You understand, alright, you just fail to desire to accept the responsibility of the recognition of Knowingness. Well, I have certainly as much time as do you--in fact because other impacts come upon your very created orb--you are running right out of "time". The sequence is nearing the connection of transition so that the spiral can move onward without breaking of the patterns. Just as a babe outgrows the cradle--so must Man get off his narrow little self-tunnel and grow. It is either grow or re-peat the grade--no shortcuts and no cheating.




[link to abundanthope.net]
Anonymous Coward
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09/05/2009 01:36 AM
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Re: Clear concrete proof that 'GOD' of Bible/Koran/Talmud is false.
Well, I guess that settles it then..

You're free to go...
ShadowFox  (OP)

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09/05/2009 01:42 AM
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Re: Clear concrete proof that 'GOD' of Bible/Koran/Talmud is false.
e-watchman

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09/05/2009 01:56 AM
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Re: Clear concrete proof that 'GOD' of Bible/Koran/Talmud is false.
There are obviously some major gaps in your theological grasp and reasoning.

For starters, God's fore-knowledge is not the issue. God may or may not chose to use his foreknowledge, just as he may or may not choose to use his power. For example, being Almighty does not mean that God uses his power at all times.

The issues centered on Abraham had to do with faith. Faith is something that has to be demonstrated by the individual. In the case of Abraham, God had already promised Abraham that the messiah would come through Isaac's linage. And even though Sara and Abraham doubted that God could give them a child in their old age Jehovah kept his promise and the barren woman became a mother.

But when the child had grown up God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son. So, on the one hand God had already made a sworn statement that the messianic seed would come through Isaac how would that be possible if Abraham obeyed God and sacrificed his son? It was a test of Abraham's faith to be sure. 2,000 years later the apostle Paul explained to the Hebrews that Abraham demonstrated faith in God's ability to resurrect the dead, and in an illustrative way Abraham received Isaac back from the dead, as Paul noted here [link to www.biblegateway.com]

Interestingly, Isaac is called Abraham's "only begotten son." In this we are reminded that Jesus is called "the only begotten Son of God." But contrary to the case of Abraham, Jehovah did not spare his precious son but sent him to earth to die a sacrificial death as the slaughtered lamb of God. It would seem then that the drama that was played out with the attempted sacrifice of Isaac was pictorial of how Jehovah would literally sacrifice his only begotten son on the figurative altar.

Because of Abraham's faith he is called the father of all those with faith, faith in the sacrificed son of God, that is.

Another interesting side note: Before Abraham attempted to offer up Isaac there is no record that the Canaanites, among whom Abraham was residing at the time, practiced ritual child sacrifice. It would seem then that the attempted sacrifice of Isaac was met with mockery by the demons, who undoubtedly understood the deeper meaning as regards the future sacrifice of Jehovah's own son, and so to mock and devalue that sacred sacrifice the demon gods who were worshipped by the Canaanites compelled their worshippers to institute the ritual sacrifice of their own children--a demonic ritual which the sons of Abraham eventually adopted as well.

.

Last Edited by e-watchman on 09/05/2009 02:12 AM
"Jehovah is a manly person of war. Jehovah is his name." Exodus 15:3
ShadowFox  (OP)

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Re: Clear concrete proof that 'GOD' of Bible/Koran/Talmud is false.
Christard talking nonsense to defend his faith.

*LOL*
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Clear concrete proof that 'GOD' of Bible/Koran/Talmud is false.
opie's an idjit
ShadowFox  (OP)

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Re: Clear concrete proof that 'GOD' of Bible/Koran/Talmud is false.
So how many of your Abrahamic faithers are willing to kill you children to prove your loyalty to GOD ?
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Clear concrete proof that 'GOD' of Bible/Koran/Talmud is false.
i have to agree, the god of the bible is twisted, evil and childish, like the minds of the day who wrote it. the bible is a reflection of mankind at that time, and a fucked up time it must have been. so either the bible is bullshit or the god from the bible is really satan.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Clear concrete proof that 'GOD' of Bible/Koran/Talmud is false.
This version makes much more sense. I prefer spiritual things to make sense and not offend our sense of justice or logic.

Oahspe
History of Abraham

24/9.4. Now it came to pass in the early days of Abraham, he told his brothers that the light and power of God were with him; and, though others believed in Abraham, yet Lot, Abram's brother, and Lot, Abram's nephew, did not believe in Abraham, saying of him: He was born naturally, and is wise because of his own judgment.

24/9.5. God said to Abraham: Behold, it is an easy matter to commune with spirits, but to judge righteously regarding them is not so easy. For which reason you and your wife, and one hundred picked men, shall go and visit Sodom and Gomorrah in the valley of Siddim.

24/9.6. And Abraham and his people went as commanded by God, and visited the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah; and God spoke privately to Abraham, saying: I will destroy these cities, for they are like hells for evil spirits; but Lot (the elder and younger) shall escape for your sake.

24/9.7. And when they came to Sodom, behold, angels walked among the people, and the people knew they were angels, but were indifferent |777| regarding them. And there were laws made by Bera, king of Sodom, regarding the behavior between angels and men.

24/9.8. And Abraham, being pressed by the presence of God, said to his people: Behold, there are angels that love to dwell in lust, and to partake with mortals; to eat with them, to lie down with them, and to partake in all ungodly pleasures.

24/9.9. God, through his angels, rained down fire and brimstone on Sodom and Gomorrah, and they were burnt and destroyed. Lot, the elder, escaped, and went and lived in a cave.

24/9.10. Now after Abraham and his people had returned to Jireh, his camp, and it was night, God said to Abraham: Be steadfast, and show your people so that they may understand my words.

24/9.11. And while they were still praying before the altar, God withdrew from Abraham, and allowed the evil angels, who had followed them from Sodom and Gomorrah, to draw near the altar. And one of the angels clothed himself in a great light, and, adorned with sparkling gems and a crown, he appeared, so all the multitude of people could look upon him.

24/9.12. Abraham said: Who are you? And the spirit said: I am your God, ruler of heaven and earth! Abraham said: I am your servant; what may I do for you? And the spirit said: You shall take your only son, Isaac, and your hosts who were with you at Sodom and Gomorrah, and go with me where I will lead you, for I have a great work for you.

24/9.13. Abraham said: I will do whatever you put upon me to do.

24/9.14. So in the morning Abraham and his son Isaac, and the hosts who had been with Abraham to Sodom and Gomorrah, assembled together. And Abraham spoke, saying: Where to, O God?

24/9.15. The spirit answered, saying: Take sticks and a firebrand (torch) and come to the summit of the hill over there, for you shall restore the rites of burnt offerings. || Abraham told the people what God had said, so they began, and Isaac carried the bundle of willows, such as basket‑makers use, saying: This will light the large pieces; but what will you burn for an offering, O father? And Abraham said: God will provide.

24/9.16. And when they ascended to the place, Abraham gathered logs and heaped them up, and Isaac placed the willows.

24/9.17. Then the spirit spoke, saying: What shall a man love above all things in the world? And Abraham said: God. And the spirit said: For which reason you shall offer your only son, Isaac, as a burnt offering. And it shall be testimony before your people that you will obey God even to the sacrifice of your own flesh and kin.

24/9.18. Abraham said: Show me that you are God, so that I may not err; for I have been commanded not to kill.

24/9.19. And the spirit departed away from Abraham, perceiving that he knew the higher law. And Isaac was grieved at heart, for he desired to witness what a sacrifice was. And the people, seeing a ram near at hand, went and caught it, and slaughtered it, and sprinkled the blood on the sacrifice, and they lit the fire, roasted the flesh, then took it and gave it to the poor.

24/9.20. And Abraham called the place Jehovih‑Jireh, and they returned to the camp; and Abraham, being moved by God, spoke before the people.
[link to oahspe.se.angelfire.com]

---------

Except for the killing of the ram, this is more satisfying to read and is the type of moral lessong that I think belongs in a holy book, which should enlighten and raise us up spiritually, not drag us down or keep us down.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Clear concrete proof that 'GOD' of Bible/Koran/Talmud is false.
moran op talking about morans

classic
Anonymous Coward
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09/05/2009 07:54 AM
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Re: Clear concrete proof that 'GOD' of Bible/Koran/Talmud is false.
Faith is higher tier reasoning than your puny binary true/false logic, OP. Thus any attempts to 'disprove' God with such low level reasoning will always fail.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Clear concrete proof that 'GOD' of Bible/Koran/Talmud is false.
Faith is higher tier reasoning than your puny binary true/false logic, OP. Thus any attempts to 'disprove' God with such low level reasoning will always fail.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 758820

It's not disproving God, it's disproving the false gods. Can't you see the falseness in their teachings?
MagiChristmas

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Re: Clear concrete proof that 'GOD' of Bible/Koran/Talmud is false.
Well, I guess that settles it then..

You're free to go...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 740600


. . .

If I've made a firm decision not to jump, the option of jumping is still available to me. But if I actually did jump, then suddenly I would lose the ability to do many other things I could do if I didn't jump. So, even though I have the freedom to jump, I choose not to do so in order to have more options available to me. But, just because I have made that decision, it doesn't do away with the option of jumping over the cliff.

In the same way, our Father in heaven is free to commit sin if He wants to. That option is always available to Him, but He knows that the moment He does, He would cease to be God. In the first place, He would lose the power of His priesthood since He would hold it in unrighteousness. And secondly, since no unclean thing can dwell in the celestial kingdom, He would also be forced to leave that heavenly realm. But the fact that our Father in heaven chooses not to sin doesn't eliminate His ability to commit sin. Therefore, He wisely chooses to do those things that will allow Him to have the greatest amount of freedom and rejects those options that will limit His choices. That is real freedom.

And the same principle applies to us. Choosing to do evil eventually limits the number of choices available to us. If we don't repent of our sins and begin making wise choices, then ultimately we will spend eternity restricted in what we can or cannot do. We will always have the ability or option to commit sin, but only those who live righteously will also have the option of inheriting eternal life. Therefore, the reason why God gives us commandments is to show us what we must do to achieve the greatest amount of freedom. Rather than them being a list of restrictions, they are, in reality, the only way to true freedom.

THE WAY TO FREEDOM
Thread: THE WAY TO FREEDOM

MC

Last Edited by X^24 on 09/05/2009 09:06 AM
The deception continues to crumble.
Thread: Tips for improving the GLP experience.
Christ was mischaracterized to the point of Crucifixion.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Clear concrete proof that 'GOD' of Bible/Koran/Talmud is false.
We will always have the ability or option to commit sin, but only those who live righteously will also have the option of inheriting eternal life.
 Quoting: MagiChristmas



Doesn't everyone get eternal life? When we die there is an afterlife for everyone. It's stilly to promise something that we already have just by having been born alive.
danhow

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Re: Clear concrete proof that 'GOD' of Bible/Koran/Talmud is false.
[link to www.bibliotecapleyades.net]

In pursuing an answer to this question and in studying the substance of the Old Testament prior to its corruption, one fact which becomes increasingly clear is that in English-language Bibles the definition ’Lord’ is used in a general context, but in earlier texts a positive distinction is drawn between ’Jehovah’ and ’the Lord’.

It has often been wondered why the biblical God of the Hebrews led them through trials and tribulations, floods and disasters, when (from time to time) he appears to have performed with a quite contrary and merciful personality. The answer is that, although now seemingly embraced as ’the One God’ by the Jewish and Christian churches, there was originally a distinct difference between the figures of Jehovah and the Lord. They were, in fact, quite separate deities. The god referred to as ’Jehovah’ was traditionally a storm god, a god of wrath and vengeance, whereas the god referred to as ’the Lord’ was a god of fertility and wisdom.

So, what was the name given to the Lord in the early writings? It was, quite simply, the prevailing Hebrew word for ’Lord’, and the word was ’Adon’. As for the apparent personal name of Jehovah, this was not used in the early days, and even the Bible tells that the God of Abraham was called ’El Shaddai’, which means ’Lofty Mountain’.

The apparent name ’Jehovah’ came from the original Hebrew stem YHWH, which meant ’I am that I am’ - said to be a statement made by God to Moses on Mount Sinai, hundreds of years after the time of Abraham. ’Jehovah’ was therefore not a name at all, and early texts refer simply to ’El Shaddai’ and to his opposing counterpart, ’Adon’.

To the Canaanites, these gods were respectively called ’El Elyon’ and ’Baal’ - which meant precisely the same things (’Lofty Mountain’ and ’Lord’).

In our modern Bibles, the definitions ’God’ and ’Lord’ are used and intermixed throughout, as if they were one and the same character, but originally they were not. One was a vengeful god (a people-hater), and the other was a social god (a people-supporter), and they each had wives, sons and daughters.

The old writings tell us that throughout the patriarchal era the Israelites endeavored to support Adon, the Lord, but at every turn El Shaddai (the storm god, Jehovah) retaliated with floods, tempests, famines and destruction. Even at the very last (around 600 BC), the Bible explains that Jerusalem was overthrown at Jehovah’s bidding and tens of thousands of Jews were taken into Babylonian captivity simply because their King (a descendant of King David) had erected altars in veneration of Baal, the Adon.

It was during the course of this captivity that the Israelites weakened and finally conceded. They decided to succumb to the ’God of Wrath’, and developed a new religion out of sheer fear of his retribution. It was at this time that the name of Jehovah first appeared - and this was only 500 years before the time of Jesus.

Subsequently, the Christian Church took Jehovah on board as well, calling him simply ’God’ - and all the hitherto social concepts of the Adon were totally discarded. The two religions were henceforth both faiths of fear. Even today, their followers are classified as ’God-fearing’.

So, where does that leave us? It leaves us knowing that within an overall pantheon of gods and goddesses (many of whom are actually named in the Bible), there were two predominant and opposing gods. In different cultures they have been known as ’El Elyon’ and ’Baal’; ’El Shaddai’ and ’Adon’; ’Arhiman’ and ’Mazda’; ’Jehovah’ and ’Lord’; ’God’ and ’Father’. But these styles are all titular; they are not personal names.

So who precisely were they? To find the answer we have to look no further than where these gods were actually operative, and the old Canaanite texts (discovered in Syria in the 1920s) tell us that their courts were in the Tigris-Euphrates valley in Mesopotamia, in the Sumerian Eden delta of the Persian Gulf.

But what did the ancient Sumerians call these two gods? What were their personal names? We can trace the Sumerian written records back to about 3700 BC, and they tell us that the gods in question were brothers. In Sumer, the storm god who eventually became known as Jehovah was called ’Enlil’ or ’Ilu-kur-gal’ (meaning ’Ruler of the Mountain’), and his brother, who became Adon, the Lord, was called ’Enki’. This name is really important to our story because ’Enki’ means ’Archetype’.
wing-ed

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09/05/2009 09:23 AM
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Re: Clear concrete proof that 'GOD' of Bible/Koran/Talmud is false.
Praise the holy Of Holy :: God allowed Lucifer and his followers to to kill his son to save you from your conventioneer !! Lucifer's tares won't understand this until the harvest !! Praise The Lamb:: Amen
Holy, holy,holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.Praise the one who gives you peace beyond all understanding Yes that scripture still sounds good !
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Clear concrete proof that 'GOD' of Bible/Koran/Talmud is false.
Your expectations of what God is or should be are only a product of your own delusions. The real game is much wider than you seem to suppose. Please widen and deepen your field of view. Thank you.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Clear concrete proof that 'GOD' of Bible/Koran/Talmud is false.
Thread: List of common fallacies - A guide for "those" discussions!

point #25



you fail
The Professor
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09/05/2009 09:34 AM
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Re: Clear concrete proof that 'GOD' of Bible/Koran/Talmud is false.
All 3 are basically Abrahamic religion/faiths.


Abraham was asked by God to sacrifice one of his sons.


Muslims/Christians argue for eons over which son was the one sacrificed..


But these morons overlooked one thing.


Their God is supposed to be All-Loving, All-Mighty, All-Knowing.


If God is All-Loving, he need not asked Abraham to kill one of his sons.


If it is to test Abraham's faith, then this GOD is not All-Knowing because he cannot read what is in Abraham's mind. He is not Al-Mighty and not telepathic.


Therefore the conclusion is this 'GOD' that Christians, Jews, and Muslims worship is nothing more than mortals with high tech toys and intellect.... far advanced beyond primitive intellectuals at the time.

The Alien GOD with EGO theory is beginning to sound more and more plausible.


Man's ability to reason and love has been suppressed by brainwashing from cruel EGOistic ET Gods. This simple Abrahamic tale is enough to discredit the entire Abrahamic faith.


Where is the LOVE ?
 Quoting: ShadowFox


Good post, but I must offer one small correction. God did not ask Abraham to sacrifice “one of his sons” as you claim. According to Bible-quoting Christians, God asked Abraham to sacrifices his “only” son, Isaac. Actually, Christians make the very same mistake that the Old Testament God made; they thought Isaac had but one son at the time, but he had two, both Isaac and Ishmael. Here is what the Bible says:

“And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am. Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of” (Genesis 22:1-2, KJV).

For some reason or other Paul also thought that Isaac only had one son when he was tested by God on the mountain. Here are Paul's exact words:

“By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called” (Hebrews 11:17-18).

Now everyone who has read the bible knows that Isaac was not Abraham's only begotten son. Ismael, whose mother was Hagar, was Abraham's first-born son (Genesis 16:1-11). Now I have heard all kinds of ignorant defenses of this blatant Biblical contradiction. Over the years, my Christian friends have offered a multitude of explanations in an attempt to reconcile this apparent contradiction. Some have said that Ishmael was not considered to be Abraham's son because Abraham and Hagar were never married, to which I respond, say what? If he “went in unto her” and impregnated her, he's the daddy and it matters not whether he was married to the fair lady Hagar. Besides, the Bible says Abraham and Hagar were in fact married: “And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife” (Genesis 16:3).

Some Christians have even told me that Ismael must have died prior to the time Abraham was tested; however, the Bible shows that both Isaac and Ishmael buried their father.
“Then Abraham gave up the ghost, and died in a good old age, an old man, and full of years; and was gathered to his people. And his sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah, in the field of Ephron the son of Zohar the Hittite, which is before Mamre” (Genesis 25:8-9).

Another argument Christians use is that Ishmael was sent away from the house of Abraham and thus was not counted as his son. But this argument is senseless since the status of “begotten son” is never negated be any distance, however far, between father and son. Besides, there is not one single word in the scripture which indicates that either Paul or God himself was speaking only of children in Abraham's household. If that was their intent, they certainly know how to verbalize that intent, but they did not.

And some Christians maintain that Ishmael was ignored because God's promise to Abraham was to be fulfilled through the lineage of Isaac, not the descendants of Ishmael, and that God specifically said to Abraham, “In Isaac shall thy seed be called” (Genesis 21:12). However all this is irrelevant since it has noting to do with how many sons Isaac fathered. Regardless of Isaac's special mission, Ishmael is nonetheless Abraham's son.

The words “only begotten son” accurately describe a situation wherein a man has but one living son; however no intelligent person would say he has only one begotten son if he had fathered two children, both of whom are living, regardless of where they might live, when the father last had contact with the child, or any other attendant circumstances.

If I had an adult son who lived with me in my home for many years, and another son whom I had not seen since his childhood long ago, and I know not whether he was dead or alive, and you asked me how many sons I have, how would you expect me to answer you? I certainly would not tell you that I have only one begotten son, that's for sure. I would say instead something to the effect of, “I have two sons, but I lost contact with the oldest one years ago.”

The words “his only begotten son” are unambiguous. Each word means exactly what it says and no more: “his,” showing possession; “only,” meaning there are no others; “begotten,” meaning from his loins as opposed to being adopted; and “son.” meaning male child. There are reasons why we have dictionaries and why each word is assigned specific meanings. If words do not mean what they say, we cannot communicate. When Paul described Isaac as Abraham's only begotten son, it is clear that Paul thought Abraham had fathered but one child and had no others. Paul was wrong. So was the author of Genesis.

When some people discuss the Bible, they abandon every concept of logic, reasonableness and common sense; they pervert, profane and prostitute the English language; and they unwittingly blaspheme their almighty God by asserting their own intellectual superiority over His as they defend Him, and explain Him; and they do all this rather then concede the obvious: that the book called the Bible is not the complete, inspired and inerrant word of God They fail to see the fallacy of it all: that the words of a truly omniscient being need no explaining. When God writes a book there will be but one interpretation, and even a child of ten years will understand it completely upon the first reading.

OK, that's it for today. It's time for all those self-proclaimed divine spokespersons to come forward and explain what their omniscient God meant to say, but didn't quite know how.

Again, good post. Sorry for being so wordy.
MagiChristmas

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09/05/2009 09:42 AM
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Re: Clear concrete proof that 'GOD' of Bible/Koran/Talmud is false.
The Definition of Eternal Life:

We will always have the ability or option to commit sin, but only those who live righteously will also have the option of inheriting eternal life. -MC

Doesn't everyone get eternal life? When we die there is an afterlife for everyone. It's stilly to promise something that we already have just by having been born alive.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 646448


My understanding was such that I at first agreed with your assertion.

Eternal life is the phrase used in scripture to define the quality of life that our Eternal Father lives. The Lord declared, "This is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man" (Moses 1:39).

Immortality is to live forever as a resurrected being. Through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, everyone will receive this gift.

Eternal life, or exaltation, is to live in God's presence and to continue as families (see D&C 131:1–4). Like immortality, this gift is made possible through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. However, to inherit eternal life requires our "obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel" (Articles of Faith 1:3). - [link to www.lds.org]

Thanks for shedding light on the situation. hf

This post WAS added to my log of direct links.
Thread: Tips for improving the GLP experience.

MC

Last Edited by X^24 on 09/05/2009 09:43 AM
The deception continues to crumble.
Thread: Tips for improving the GLP experience.
Christ was mischaracterized to the point of Crucifixion.
Anonymous Coward
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09/05/2009 09:47 AM
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Re: Clear concrete proof that 'GOD' of Bible/Koran/Talmud is false.
Good post, but I must offer one small correction. God did not ask Abraham to sacrifice “one of his sons” as you claim. According to Bible-quoting Christians, God asked Abraham to sacrifices his “only” son, Isaac. Actually, Christians make the very same mistake that the Old Testament God made; they thought Isaac had but one son at the time, but he had two, both Isaac and Ishmael. Here is what the Bible says:

“And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham, and said unto him, Abraham: and he said, Behold, here I am. Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of” (Genesis 22:1-2, KJV).

For some reason or other Paul also thought that Isaac only had one son when he was tested by God on the mountain. Here are Paul's exact words:

“By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called” (Hebrews 11:17-18).

Now everyone who has read the bible knows that Isaac was not Abraham's only begotten son. Ismael, whose mother was Hagar, was Abraham's first-born son (Genesis 16:1-11). Now I have heard all kinds of ignorant defenses of this blatant Biblical contradiction. Over the years, my Christian friends have offered a multitude of explanations in an attempt to reconcile this apparent contradiction. Some have said that Ishmael was not considered to be Abraham's son because Abraham and Hagar were never married, to which I respond, say what? If he “went in unto her” and impregnated her, he's the daddy and it matters not whether he was married to the fair lady Hagar. Besides, the Bible says Abraham and Hagar were in fact married: “And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife” (Genesis 16:3).

 Quoting: The Professor 660063

This version in Oahspe says the records were recorded incorrectly that Abraham slept with Hagar and had a son Ishmael.
---------------

24/11.5. Now it came to pass that Hagar, Sarai's maid, had a son, and named him Ishmael; and Sarai, jealous of Hagar, abused her during pregnancy. And the Lord spoke to Abraham, saying: Because of the hatred between your women, Hagar's son will be like a wild man; his hand shall be against every man, and every man shall be against him.

24/11.6. Abraham said: How did this come about, O God? And God said: I told you that you would be a father of many peoples, and you told Sarai, your wife. Now Sarai has become vain in her desires for offspring, and, in her eagerness, she opened the door of your house to satan, and so this matter is upon you.

24/11.7. Go, therefore, my son, and reconcile your women. And Abraham told Sarai what God had said. And Sarai inquired of Abraham, saying: Before God, tell me, is Ishmael your son? And God shall judge between us.
Abraham said:

24/11.8. Teach me, O God, to answer Sarai, so I may reconcile them. And God said: Behold, your Creator is the Father of all the living.

24/11.9. And when Abraham told Sarai God's words, she cried in sorrow and repentance, saying: You are wise, O God! For what matter is it to me, since I know that Ishmael is your son, and Hagar is your daughter?

24/11.10. And Sarai went to Hagar and said: O my sister, I have sinned before the Lord, my God. I saw your son, and knew God gave him, but I turned against my own soul, and did not love your treasure.

24/11.11. Hagar said: Did your God say that Abraham was father to my child? And Sarai said: No, O Hagar. Hagar said: Neither did I say your husband was Ishmael's father.

24/11.12. So they were reconciled, and by right of the beginning of Abraham's nations, Ishmael was Abraham's son before God, but not in the flesh.

24/11.13. Sarai had a son, and he was called Isaac, because he was born to Sarai after she had passed the time of childbearing.

[link to oahspe.se.angelfire.com]
Anonymous Coward
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09/05/2009 09:57 AM
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Re: Clear concrete proof that 'GOD' of Bible/Koran/Talmud is false.
Christard talking nonsense to defend his faith.

*LOL*
 Quoting: ShadowFox

Stop insulting people.
danhow

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09/05/2009 10:00 AM
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Re: Clear concrete proof that 'GOD' of Bible/Koran/Talmud is false.
The Definition of Eternal Life:




Doesn't everyone get eternal life? When we die there is an afterlife for everyone. It's stilly to promise something that we already have just by having been born alive.

.

Eternal life is the phrase used in scripture to define the quality of life that our Eternal Father lives. The Lord declared, "This is my work and my glory—to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man" (Moses 1:39).

Immortality is to live forever as a resurrected being. Through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, everyone will receive this gift.

Eternal life, or exaltation, is to live in God's presence and to continue as families (see D&C 131:1–4). Like immortality, this gift is made possible through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. However, to inherit eternal life requires our "obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel" (Articles of Faith 1:3). - [link to www.lds.org]

Thanks for shedding light on the situation. hf

This post WAS added to my log of direct links.
Thread: Tips for improving the GLP experience.

MC
 Quoting: MagiChristmas


Understanding the Concept of Salvation
Many Believe Jesus was the Only Christed One


This Awareness indicates that the one difficulty or problem that occurs in regard to the fundamentalist approach to the salvation principle, is that they see this as coming from a particular person, in the person of Jesus, and do not recognize that it can also come from others who channel the Christ Light. They do not understand that the "Word which was in the beginning, and was God, and was with God, and that all things that were created were from the Word of God"--they do not understand that this Word is the Christ Consciousness, and that the Christ Consciousness is the Universal vibration or consciousness that is Universal Mind, and that is everywhere present, and they instead personify this as the entity Jesus the Christed one, and that there were others that were also Christed, or Christened, by this Divine Light, and that these entities in becoming one with the Divine Light, have the ability to channel and pass on this Light to others, and can become master teachers.

This Awareness indicates that when they do not recognize or understand that it is not the man Jesus, but the Christ that worked through Jesus, which created the salvation, and when they demand that everyone must follow and worship the man Jesus, rather that the Christ Light, they are missing the mark and narrowing the truth into that which is incomprehensible to many and erroneous in fact, and which cast aside the entire religions and the experience of salvation that others in other philosophies or religions may have, as they experience God attunement, or God Consciousness.

Too Narrow a Perception is the Error of the Fundamentalists

This Awareness indicates that the error of the fundamentalists is that they are too narrow in their perception and are taking a view much like that of a salesman who sees only one headache remedy in the world, and does not consider or recognize that other headache remedies might exist.

The Time Has Now Come When "Jesus" Must be Understood!

This Awareness indicates that the time has come when Christians around the world begin to focus on Christ for what it is, as the Christ Light, the Universal Vibration, the Universal Consciousness, the Word of God, that vibration that exists everywhere throughout the universe as the mind, the frequency of Universal Consciousness, and realize that Jesus was one who was Christed, that there were others who were Christed, or christened with this Divine Light. For when entities fully understand this then indeed the Rapture, the coming again of the Christ Light the Second Coming will occur, one with the Divine Light of Christ. This Awareness indicates that it is possible for entities to surrender themselves to the name of Jesus, and seeing this entity as the Christ, to be Christed or Christened, to have this experience of the salivation.

Divine Light is Available to ALL Religions

This Awareness wishes entities to understand it is not an exclusive right of fundamentalists. It is not only for those who go to the Baptist church, or to other Protestant churches. It is something that is available to all entities, in all religions, whether eastern or western. It is available to the Hindu, to the Moslem, to the Jew, to the Christian, to all types of Christians, to the Catholic. It is available to the American Indians, in their quest of the Great Spirit. It is available to all entities who are open to receive union with the Divine Light of Buddha, to the Divine Light of any teacher who represents, by any name, that Universal Vibration, that frequency, which is highest and unpolarized in its essence and expression. For that indeed is the Word of God. It is the Universal Mind. It is Cosmic Consciousness. It is Divinity Itself.

This Awareness indicates that understanding this, it is not the right of any group to condemn others for having different names, different languages, to describe the same essence. For those of other cultures, for those of other religions, for those of other realms, who also relate to, depend on and merge with the Divine Light, these entities, too, must respect as having their own and equal place in the worship of God. And to condemn them because they do not use the same words, or carry the same story is an affront to consciousness, and demeans those who thus condemn.

[link to home.iae.nl]
Anonymous Coward
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09/05/2009 10:01 AM
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Re: Clear concrete proof that 'GOD' of Bible/Koran/Talmud is false.
All 3 are basically Abrahamic religion/faiths.

Abraham was asked by God to sacrifice one of his sons.

Muslims/Christians argue for eons over which son was the one sacrificed..

But these morons overlooked one thing.

Their God is supposed to be All-Loving, All-Mighty, All-Knowing.

If God is All-Loving, he need not asked Abraham to kill one of his sons.

If it is to test Abraham's faith, then this GOD is not All-Knowing because he cannot read what is in Abraham's mind. He is not Al-Mighty and not telepathic.

Therefore the conclusion is this 'GOD' that Christians, Jews, and Muslims worship is nothing more than mortals with high tech toys and intellect.... far advanced beyond primitive intellectuals at the time.

The Alien GOD with EGO theory is beginning to sound more and more plausible.


Man's ability to reason and love has been suppressed by brainwashing from cruel EGOistic ET Gods. This simple Abrahamic tale is enough to discredit the entire Abrahamic faith.


Where is the LOVE ?
 Quoting: ShadowFox


In the Quran.

Reread the story.

Abraham had a dream, Allah did not tell him to do anything. Allah stopped Abraham from killing his son.

"And when he attained to working with him, he said: O my son! surely I have seen in a dream that I should sacrifice you; consider then what you see. He said: O my father! do what you are commanded; if Allah please, you will find me of the patient ones.
So when they both submitted and he threw him down upon his forehead,
And We called out to him saying: O Ibrahim!
You have indeed shown the truth of the vision; surely thus do We reward the doers of good:
Most surely this is a manifest trial.
And We ransomed him with a Feat sacrifice.
And We perpetuated (praise) to him among the later generations.
Peace be on Ibrahim. " Surah 37:103-109

Nowhere does it say Allah commanded Abraham to sacrifice his son. Peace be unto all Allah's Prophets.

This is clear proof our Creator does not like human sacrifice.

Peace.
Anonymous Coward
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09/05/2009 10:02 AM
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Re: Clear concrete proof that 'GOD' of Bible/Koran/Talmud is false.
opie's an idjit
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 419649


Why? Because he/she dares to think for him/herself? Me thinks you're the idjit.
ShadowFox  (OP)

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09/05/2009 10:04 AM
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Re: Clear concrete proof that 'GOD' of Bible/Koran/Talmud is false.
why do christards keep preaching and not rebutt what i posted ? Feeling the pinch from exposing their false gods?
Anonymous Coward
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09/05/2009 10:04 AM
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Re: Clear concrete proof that 'GOD' of Bible/Koran/Talmud is false.
Praise the holy Of Holy :: God allowed Lucifer and his followers to to kill his son to save you from your conventioneer !! Lucifer's tares won't understand this until the harvest !! Praise The Lamb:: Amen
 Quoting: wing-ed


The "harvest?" Oh,yah, I forgot. Yummy, yummy, Christians taste soooooooo good!
Anonymous Coward
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09/05/2009 10:08 AM
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Re: Clear concrete proof that 'GOD' of Bible/Koran/Talmud is false.
why do christards keep preaching and not rebutt what i posted ? Feeling the pinch from exposing their false gods?
 Quoting: ShadowFox


Do some research on the consequences of being "brainwashed." I think then you'll better understand why they have a one-tracked mind. It's very, very difficult to break the spell of being brainwashed. I know, because I too was once one of those "christards."





GLP