Clear concrete proof that 'GOD' of Bible/Koran/Talmud is false.

I think what's worrying is the Muslims hold/swear by the same reasoning of Abraham's sacrifice.


We've got a lot of dangerous brainwashed Abrahamic faithers in this world and I won't be surprised they would fuck it up for everyone eventually.

You are simply replacing one preposterous notion with another aren`t you?

I repeat: When the fuck did GLP turn into a Christard board? WTF is with all this bullshit? Look at the Christards trying to defend their utterly bogus "religion"

op some of us Christians dont believe for one moment that the god of the torah and old testament is the same God of Love of Jesus and the New Testament.

Does insulting people make you seem more intelligent?

There is no debate with someone who merely insults.

ignore these threads

Last Edited by Ponzi on 09/05/2009 12:50 PM

This has got to be the worst argument against religion I have seen this year.


Btw, Where is it where Abraham kills someone? Scripture and verse please. Oh yeah, there isn't one.

Prolly because you are a spiritual retard, unable to comprehend the truth. That and because your argument is so weak and pathetic, that it really exposes your ignorance of scripture and the ability to discern between good and evil.

Don't you think it's a problem that God tells Abraham to kill Isaac? What kind of God is that anyway.

What the text says and and what God meant can be different if you don't understand it. The OP however, starts off his concrete proof by stating that the Jews and Muslims argue over which son Abraham sacrificed, when in fact he didn't do any such thing.

This thread sucks.

Semantics. He built an altar and laid Isaac on it and lit the fire. That's called a sacrifice in the Bible. God said, oops changed my mind, at the last minute, That's no credit to Abraham, he would have gone ahead with it to please God.

spiritual retard must be your favorite words.I suggest you take a look to what you say and do yourself and stop judging and condeming people.The karma you are creating is going to come back and bite you.

"None other name given under heaven" -Acts 4:12



Elder Joseph L. Wirthlin
Second Counselor in the Presiding Bishopric

Whenever called upon, my brethren and sisters, to perform this great task, I always ask the Lord to quicken my mind and loosen my tongue, and I hope that that prayer has a response in your hearts in my behalf today.

Many Evidences of Christ's Divinity

We frequently hear the question asked: "What is there in a name?" And thinking of names, we always think first of family names. We think of the great names in the fields of education, industry, statesmanship, but what about the names in the great realm of religion? In retrospect there are many that come before us-the names of Confucius, of Buddha, of Mohammed, and of Jesus Christ. As we think of the first three, their names identify them as men who endeavored to teach their followers certain philosophies, philosophies of men, with some elements of truth in them. But what about Jesus Christ and his teachings, and furthermore, what do we find in his name? In the use of his name, there is also an immediate mental connection with the Godhead. His followers proclaimed that he was the Son of God, for we read:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. . . . And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. (John 1:1-5; 14.)

To the early followers of Jesus Christ, he was with God in the beginning. He was God, and to him was given the great commission of creating the earth and all the things that are now upon it. And furthermore, because his plan of salvation was accepted in the pre-existent councils in heaven, he revealed himself to mankind in the flesh, the only Begotten of the Father. In analyzing this declaration and comparing it with the theories and teachings of Confucius, Buddha, and Mohammed, we find a great difference in the claims of these great religious teachers.

The above declaration of John must of necessity be supported with tangible evidence that Jesus Christ was the Son of God, a member of the Godhead who revealed himself to mankind in the flesh for the purpose of redeeming mankind from the sin of Adam. The great evidence to sustain the above claims is found in a promise made by the Savior wherein he declared:

But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me. (John 15:26.)

The great difference between Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and the other great religious teachers of the world was that after he left the earth, the third member of the Godhead, even the Holy Ghost, would testify to the races of men on earth of the divine mission of the Lord, Jesus Christ.

Nearly two thousand years have elapsed since Christ was upon the earth, but untold thousands have enjoyed the revelation of the Holy Ghost that his mission was divine. A modern-day prophet, Brigham Young, states most emphatically that any honest searcher of truth can know that Jesus was the Christ in the same way that Peter knew it. As you recall, the Savior was traveling in the country with his disciples and turning upon them asked this question: ". . . Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?" As I visualize that scene, his followers were dumb- founded and rather hesitantly answered: "Some say that thou art John the Baptist; some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets," The second time the Savior asked the question: "But whom say ye that I am?" Peter, the humble fisherman, without any reservation declared: "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God," and the reply immediately came from the Savior: "Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but ye Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 16 13-17.) 

How was it possible for Peter to answer this question without any hesitation or reservation? It was possible because the Holy Ghost revealed this great truth to him, and in this event we see that the Holy Ghost does reveal the fact that Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten of the Father in the flesh, the Son of God, the Redeemer of the world.

Again we ask the question: "What is there in a name?" In the name of Jesus Christ there is salvation and exaltation to the children of our Heavenly Father, for we read in the Acts of the Apostles:

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. (Acts 4 12.)

In his ministry Christ taught the people to accept his name, to take his name upon them. In the matter of prayer he said:

And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. (John 14:13.)

Principles Taught By the Savior

With reference to belief and faith he said:

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believed on his name. (John 1:12.)

He taught the principle of repentance, forcibly declaring in Luke:

And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. (Luke 24:47.)

John the Baptist, forerunner of Christ, taught the gospel of repentance and baptism by immersion for the remission of sins, and in the course of events, the Savior appeared applying for baptism. Ecclesiastical history declares that when he came up out of the water, the heavens were opened and the Holy Ghost appeared in the form of a dove, and the assembled multitude heard the voice of the Father saying: ". . . This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." (Matthew 3:17) again proclaiming the great truth that Jesus Christ was the Son of God, the Redeemer of the world.

. . . Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. (Matthew 28 19.)

Admission into the kingdom by baptism, as the Savior so declared to Nicodemus, was in the name of the Godhead including the name of the Savior. Other promises he made in his name:

He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. (Mark 16 16-18.)

The True Church of Christ Carries His Name

In contemplation of the great ministry of our Lord, his name stands out preeminently as the only name under heaven whereby the children of men can enjoy the blessings of salvation and exaltation. In fact, his name is the pass-word into the kingdom of our Heavenly Father.

Paul in preaching to the Ephesians declared that Jesus gave some apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and some teachers, and may I also point out to you that in the New Testament, there is an abundance of scriptures to prove without question wherein high priests, seventies, elders, priests, teachers, deacons and bishops were selected, these offices being made an integral part of the great Church organization. After the selection of Church officers and its organization did the Church carry a name, and if it did, what was its name two thousand years ago? Did it carry the name of Peter; was it the church of John or Matthew? It was not; it carried the name of its great organizer, the Lord, Jesus Christ. Read, if you will:

And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. (Colossians 1:18.) It logically follows that if the Savior was to have pre-eminence in all things, the most pre-eminent of all these would be this great organization called the Church which should carry his name. We read:

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. (Ephesians 5:23-24.)

We see in this comparison that the Church was to take the name of Jesus Christ, its head, and become subject, just as the wife takes the name of her husband and becomes subject to him. So the Church in the days of Jesus Christ carried his name.

At the trial of the Savior, when he stood before Pontius Pilate, the Roman ruler declared that he could find no guile in the man, but to appease the Jews, his subjects, he ordered the crucifixion. He did something more to please his subjects, for John declared:

And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS. (John 19:19.)

Little did Pontius Pilate realize when that name was nailed to the cross at his command, whereon the Son of God hung, that name would become the best known among the children of men, the only name under the heavens whereby we might enjoy a place in his kingdom.

While the Savior's body lay in the tomb, we are told by Peter that his Spirit visited the spirits who, in the time of Noah, were a disobedient people upon the earth and were swept away by the flood, teaching them the importance of his name and that by obedience to the gospel that he had proclaimed upon the earth, they too should enjoy salvation.

Apostasy From the Church of Christ

According to the records found in III Nephi in the Book of Mormon, Jesus Christ as a resurrected being appeared to the inhabitants on the American continent, teaching them to take upon them his name, and furthermore that the application of the ordinances of the gospel was to be done in his name. Shortly after the departure of the resurrected Savior from the earth. Paul declared to the Galatian Saints:

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. (Galatians 1:6-8)

This statement is an evidence that other principles and doctrines were being taught and that the great apostasy from the Church of Christ was already in process, and furthermore that as a result of the apostasy, the name of Jesus Christ had lost its significance among men. Men were taught to pray in the names of men and women who out of the changed doctrines of the Savior became so-called saints, standing between the people on this earth and God rather than Jesus Christ. During this period we hear no more about apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, high priests, seventies, elders, bishops, priests, teachers, and deacons, but new officers with new titles took their places. The efficacy of faith was lost in that men were taught to believe that they might be saved by faith and grace rather than by faith and works. The principle of repentance became one wherein the forgiveness of sins could be purchased. The ordinance of baptism was changed and the organization lost its identity as its first title "Jesus Christ"had another substitute. As the dark clouds of apostasy settled ever the earth, there were some great men who declared that there would be a change, a reformation. Among these were Martin Luther, John Calvin, Roger Williams, who declared that the Church of God was no longer upon the earth. Sincere in their declarations and in their efforts, they were unable to restore the Church organization with its name, ordinances, and principles as the Lord, Jesus Christ first gave them to the world.

The True Church Restored

Out of the turmoil and the adverse opinion in the world, a young man, sincerely wishing to know which of all the churches was the Church of Christ fell upon his knees among the giants of the forest, calling upon God for divine direction to the end that the true Church might be revealed to him. In answer to the prayer of the fourteen-year-old boy, God, the Eternal Father, and Jesus Christ, his Son, appeared, the Father saying to Joseph Smith: "This is my Beloved Son, hear him!" reaffirming to the world that Jesus Christ was the Son of God, a resurrected being, that the Father and the Son were two distinct personages with bodies, parts, and passions. Joseph Smith received instructions from the Father and the Son and thereafter was visited by heavenly beings who indicated that their visits were in the name of the Savior, again establishing upon the earth that all things were to be done in his name as the apostles of old taught the people.

The eighteenth section of the D&C parallels the verses found in the book of Acts, wherein the significance and the power of the name of the Lord Jesus Christ was restored to the earth. It reads:

Behold, Jesus Christ is the name which is given of the Father, and there is none other name given whereby man can be saved; Wherefore, all men must take upon them the name which is given of the Father, for in that name shall they be called at the last day. (D. & C. 18:23, 24.)

It is a grand and glorious truth to contemplate that in this day, your day and my day, Jesus Christ has again spoken to the world, restoring the gospel and all its saving ordinances to the end that the children of our Heavenly Father might enjoy salvation and exaltation in his kingdom.

Here are familiar words spoken two thousand years ago and again reiterated in the words of the Savior to the Prophet with reference to prayer, indicating again that his name was to become the watchword of salvation:

And thou shalt continue in calling upon God in my name, and writing the things which shall be given thee by the Comforter, and expounding all scriptures unto the church. (Ibid., 24:5.)

And if ye are purified and cleansed from all sin, ye shall ask whatsoever you will in the name of Jesus and it shall be done. (Ibid. 50:29.)

Priesthood Given to Man

John the Baptist appeared to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery, bestowing upon them the Aaronic Priesthood, with these words:

Upon you my fellow servants, in the name of Messiah I confer the priesthood of Aaron. (D. & C. 13:1.)

May I ask the question, was there ever a time in the history of the great reformers or any other religious leaders when they claimed that divine messengers came from the heavens above in the name of Jesus Christ or in the name of the Messiah, bestowing upon them any or part of the priesthood? The answer is no. The restoration of the ordinance of baptism brought with it the mandate that men and women were to be baptized in the name of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. The confirmation of members of the Church and the promise of the gift of the Holy Ghost were to be done in the name of Jesus Christ. Administrations to the sick were to be performed in his name. The revealed blessings on the sacrament were to begin with these words: "O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy son, Jesus Christ," (D. & C. 20:77, 9) and so on.

Follow through the restoration of the gospel, if you will. The significance of the name of Jesus Christ is most impressive, restoring to it the same place that it held when he taught men upon the earth two thousand years ago. With the restoration of the ordinances and principles of the gospel, the Lord again, as Paul once declared, gave some apostles, prophets, evangelists teachers, pastors high priests, seventies, elders bishops, priests, teachers, and deacons, and with the restoration of these offices in the priesthood of the Church the Church was again organized just as perfectly as it was in the days of Peter and John. Something more than the restoration of the gospel, ordinances, principles, and organization was necessary, and what was that? The name by which it might be identified in the world, which name had been taken from the earth when the great apostasy took place, and is it not singular then that all the great religionists failed to call the churches organized by them the Church of Jesus Christ bu through the providence of God, it was not to be. Hence, the name was reserved for the day when through the Lord's instrument, Joseph Smith, the Church was again restored to the earth. We read in a revelation known as the one hundred fifteenth section of the D&C the words of the Savior to the Prophet relative to this matter:

Verily thus saith the Lord unto you, my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and also my servant Sidney Rigdon, and also my servant Hyrum Smith, and your counselors who are and shall be appointed hereafter; And also unto you, my servant Edward Partridge, and his counselors; And also unto my faithful servants who are of the high council of my church in Zion, for thus it shall be called, and unto all the elders and people of my Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, scattered abroad in all the world; For thus shall my church be called in the last days, even The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Verily I say unto you all: Arise and shine forth, that thy light may be a standard for the nations. (Ibid., 115:1-5.)

Meaning of Name Latter-Day Saint

With the restoration of the name, the organization was now complete with the priesthood, all its officers, ordinances, and principles that existed in the ancient Church as Christ taught them.

 The restoration of the name is one of the greatest evidences of the divine calling of the Prophet Joseph, the Church in the latter-days being known as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

The members of this Church carry a great and grave responsibility in using the title Latter-day Saints. As I think of my own life, I wonder if I merit the name Latter-day Saint. Do you ponder over this divine title, determining whether or not your lives are compatible with the title of Latter-day Saint? We only become Latter-day Saints insofar as we live the gospel of the Lord, Jesus Christ, and a real Latter-day Saint is willing to take upon him the full name of the Lord, Jesus Christ, keep his commandments, his covenants. It demands wholehearted, devoted loyalty to the anointed of the Lord who preside over his Church, and beyond that cleanliness of life is a prime requisite, for I am convinced that anyone who claims to be a Latter-day Saint and drinks a glass of beer or smokes a cigaret is not entitled to the divine title of Latter-day Saint.

The Lord's people are a covenant people under solemn obligation to him so to live as he has declared to the Prophet Joseph to become a standard to all the nations, and if there was ever a time in the history of the world when it needed a people that would manifest in its lives all the principles of the gospel, that time is today.

Joseph Smith declared prophetically on the banks of the Mississippi River on the sixth day of August 1842, almost two years before he was murdered, that this people would move to the Rocky Mountains, becoming a great and a mighty people. I wonder what he meant by the word "mighty." Were we to become mighty in politics, in the industrial world, or were we to become mighty in righteousness? My interpretation of this prophecy is that we were to become mighty in righteousness, and out of our might in righteousness we would set the world an example. We would become a light, a standard to a misdirected, misled, and faithless world. So in the final analysis of the Lord's plans, he bestowed his name upon the restored Church to identify us from the rest of the world by being called Latter-day Saints.

The Importance of a Name

It is a far cry from the days of Pontius Pilate when he ordered the name of the Savior nailed to the cross: "Jesus of Nazareth, king of the Jews," to the day when John the Revelator saw in a vision and declared:

And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh, a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. (Revelation 19:16.)

In his name the Lord promised that he would appear as the Lord of lords and King of kings to all those who live the gospel of Jesus Christ, meriting the title of Latter-day Saints, and they should have this blessing:

They are they who are the church of the Firstborn. They are they into whose hands the Father has given all things-They are they who are priests and kings, who have received of his fulness, and of his glory; . . . These are they whose names are written in heaven, where God and Christ are the judge of all; These are they who are just men made perfect through Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, who wrought out this perfect atonement through the shedding of his own blood. These are they whose bodies are celestial, whose glory is that of the sun, even the glory of God, the highest of all, whose glory the sun of the firmament is written of as being typical. (D. & C. 76:54-56; 68-70.)

Again the question is submitted: "What is there in a name?" What is there in the name of Jesus Christ?

Behold, Jesus Christ is the name which is given of the Father, and there is none other name given whereby man can be saved; Wherefore, all men must take upon them the name which is given of the Father, for in that name shall they be called at the last day. (Ibid., 18:23, 24.)

May God bless you and may he bless me, that we will so revere the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, that we will keep his commandments and enjoy all the blessings involved therein, I ask in his name. Amen

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MC

even if ye had valid arguments, ye sound like such a fanatic that i have no interest in listening to ye.

Did you turn your speakers all the way up and still were unable to listen to my reply ?

MagiChristmas that surely is one long peace of propaganda. The entitys known as Jesus never wanted to be worsipped as an idol as most Chritian churches do.

Last Edited by danhow on 09/06/2009 06:33 AM

First of all you blind child, we don't insult people for their religious beliefs and if we wanted to respond to your empty clues that is NOT concrete proof we would but just chalk it up to someone leading a sheltered life and is blind to a reality that YOU haven't got a grasp of! I myself will pray for you that GOD will open your eyes before it's too late

GOD bless you child

there is a theory that Abraham trusted God would do this...

Isaac was a picture of Christ -- the only son, carried his own wood like the cross, set up as a sacrifice

then a picture of US -- as the ram in the thicket became the substitutionary sacrifice for him as Jesus was for us

the lessons are for US -- God is ominiscient omnipresent and omnipotent

He does love us all -- enough to give His Only Son for us -- salvation is a free gift, His sovereign grace

Jesus stands at the door and knocks, the doorknob is on OUR side -- if we don't open that's OUR fault

God is longsuffering toward us wishing for all to come to repentance and believe Jesus died for our sins, then rose from the grave to give us eternal life -- everyone who calls upon the Name of the Lord shall be saved

the poor logical constructs of these type of arguments such as we have here are all too common on this site -- if God this if God that then He therefore... there's always holes big enough to drive a truck through. fallacies.

God set up the sacrificial system to show how He operates. He can do what He wants -- He's God, we're not. and it all turned out to be types and pictures anyway as Jesus became the ultimate final sacrifice necessary.

love peace and joy

rb

MC there is no "restored church" -- read John 17 Jesus prayed in intercession we are all One as He is in the Father and the Father in Him so we are in Him -- all One. every believer is part of the church of Jesus Christ

Jesus' powerful prayer was enough to make this happen no matter how we act or think -- God looks on the heart and knows which of us believe and trust Him

works are for demonstration to others but not to God. we are to try and shine His light before men but God already knows and acknowledges who is in the Light

the Gospel is not latter day saints unless you want to count the last 2000 years as the latter days. Joseph Smith was not a true prophet he was a young man using divination techniques on treasure hunts who invented crazy stories. there is no evidence whatsoever of Jesus coming to North America, or any of the other wild claims in the Book of Mormon.

when the root of a religious movement is bad, the trunk is bad the branches are bad the leaves are bad and ultimately the fruit is bad. no matter how it's gussied up and whitewashed to make it look good it's all based on false teaching and counterfeit

knowing the real thing -- the Holy Bible -- makes it easy to spot the counterfeit. I've had enough of false teachings they've led me astray one too many times.

ex Mormons for Jesus has been around awhile and they have a website.

God bless you and all other LDS trapped in the bondage of apostasy.

love peace and joy

rb

Only one flaw w/ your post. You're still assuming there is some higher power; in this case, alien. There is nothing and no god.

Failed argument: Allah never told Abraham (pbuh) to kill his son in the Quran.
Allah did in fact, prevent this from happening at all.

Peace.

every cult and false religion teaches we must somehow be good enough or act righteous enough to get to heaven. yes we have eternal souls -- we receive the Holy Spirit when we BELIEVE Jesus died as THE sacrifice for our sins. we are at that moment positionally seated with Christ in the heavenlies.

this position has nothing to do with performance -- just as Abraham did we believe God and it is accounted to us for righteousness. we can never do anything to earn attain nor maintain salvation in Christ Jesus -- it is the free gift of our sovereign God who has ALREADY provided the means for us to spend eternity with Him.

it is merely up to us to avail ourselves of eternal life through belief in the simple gospel message. THEN we can go out into the world, make disciples, and preach the good news!!

IT ISN'T ABOUT BEING DOING OR ACTING "GOOD" -- IT'S ABOUT BELIEVING GOD IS GOOD. ACKNOWLEDGING OUR SIN AND ACCEPTING THE COVERING OF THE BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST -- THIS IS THE ONLY WAY WE MAY BE SAVED.

love and joy

rb

FOR OUR GLORY



D&C 121:43-44 - [link to scriptures.lds.org]
teach principles for giving correction.  (Note: Betimes means “promptly” or “soon”. Sharpness means “clearly” or “precisely”.) -“Priesthood: The Power of Godliness" - [link to www.neumanninstitute.org]

Sharp as in "sharpen the focus of a photograph" aka explain in detail.  However in your case: 

Just as one cannot polish a turd, one cannot sharpen it either,  and your deceptions must be done away.  May you now learn the true principle of worship.  

"Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve" (Matt 4:10).

The idea of worshipping God has always been a central theme to all religions, both ancient and modern. As Christians, the stated reason why we go to church is to worship God. However, the idea of worshipping God is something we often do without consciously thinking about what it actually means. In fact, if most people were asked to define what constitutes true worship they would be hard pressed to give a clear definite answer. The most common definition is that "worshipping God" means giving praise to Him for His goodness. Among most Christians, heaven is thought of as a place where the angels stand before the throne of God singing praises to Him eternally.

There are many places in the scriptures which command us to worship God. But, if worshipping God means praising Him, the question can rightly be asked: Why does God want us to worship Him? Is He so vain that He can't get enough of hearing about how great and wonderful He is?

However, the verse of scripture Jesus quoted to Satan comes from Deuteronomy 6:13 which actually reads, "Thou shalt fear the Lord thy God and serve him." The Hebrew word used for "fear" in this verse is "yare" which means "to be afraid, or to tremble" (Strong's Concordance). And, indeed, in many places in the Old Testament God is defined as being a "terrible" and "dreadful" God. Therefore, is worshipping God the same as being afraid of Him?

But, the scriptures state that we must do more than just give praise or be afraid of God. Associated with the idea of worship is the command that we are to serve God. Is service to God the same as worshipping Him, or is it something extra that is required beyond our act of worship? More than that, the question can be asked: If God is so powerful and almighty, why does He need man to serve Him at all? What is it that we can do for God that He can't do a thousand times better by Himself?

And then there is yet another question. Without a doubt, we are to worship God, but to Christians, God is comprised of three beings - the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Do we worship and serve all three, or just the Father, or just the Son, or just the Holy Ghost? 

Mainstream Christianity teaches that Jesus is God. Therefore to worship God means we worship Jesus. Yet, these same Christians declare that the Father is not the Son, nor is the Son the same as the Father. Instead, Christians teach that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are all distinct individual beings from one another, even though they are all the same God. Does that mean then we neither worship the Father, nor the Son, nor the Holy Ghost, but merely worship "God" or are we suppose to worship all three simultaneously, or does worshipping one count toward worshipping the other two?

If we are commanded to worship and serve God, then it becomes important for us to understand why, how, and who we are to worship.

The dictionary defines the word "worship" as "the act of reverent love, respect or devotion to someone or something." The scriptures tell us that the first and greatest commandment is to love God with our whole heart, mind, and soul (Matt. 22:37). That is the biblical definition of what it means to worship God. When we worship someone it's because we greatly admire them and look up to them. And the reason we admire them is because they exemplify the kind of person we wish we could become. As such, we have a burning desire to be with them and to emulate them. When we worship someone, we are willing to do whatever they ask of us out of a sense of devotion and adoration.

This is how God expects us to worship Him. But why does He expect our devotion and adoration?

As members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we believe that God's purpose for us - His children - is to help us become exalted, which means living the kind of life that our Father in heaven lives. But in order to do that, we have to become the kind of being our Father is. Thus, it is necessary for us to worship God in order to become like Him, because one of the purposes behind our worship is the desire to emulate Him whom we worship. When we fail to properly worship God we are indicating by our actions that we don't want to become like Him.

But there is more to worship than this. True "love" means that we care more about someone else than we care about ourselves (not that we don't care about ourselves but we care more about the other person - we put their interests ahead of our own). If we love God to the point of adoration and devotion (which is what it means to worship someone), then we would genuinely care more about Him than we do ourselves. And the way we show that kind of love to God is by doing things His way rather than our own way. Of course, that is also the definition of being a servant.

Jesus taught His disciples saying, "Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise great dominion over [others], and they that are great exercise authority upon them. But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister (i.e. servant)" (Matt. 20:25,26). 

In many of the parables that Jesus gave, he illustrated the kingdom of God by portraying the Father as the master of the house and we as His servants. In fact, the concept of us acting in the capacity of servants is a common theme throughout all the scriptures. By definition, a servant is someone who subordinates their will to that of another. In fact, it is impossible to serve someone without becoming subservient to them.

The dictionary defines the word "subordinate" as: "to put in a lower rank; to be subject to the control or authority of another; to make oneself subservient." The word subservient" means: "to subordinate in function or capacity." Often the words "servant," "subservient," and "subordinate" can be used interchangeably because they all express the same idea.

We see this concept of service most clearly in the United States military. Often we refer to those who volunteer to enlist in the military as "serving their country." In the military, there is a definite hierarchy of authority, known as the chain of command. According to the military code of conduct, someone of a lower rank is "subordinate" to someone of a higher rank. As such, they are "subservient" to those of a higher rank, meaning that they willingly subject themselves "to the control or authority of another." 

Even though, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff is the highest ranking officer in the entire military as a five-star general, yet, he is "subordinate" to the President of the United States. That means, he is subservient, or subjects himself to the control or authority of the head of our country. When the President tells this General what to do, it doesn't make any difference how the General feels about the matter. He has no other choice than to subordinate his will to that of his Commander-in-chief.

However, to be subservient to someone is not the same as worshipping that person. Most of the military despised their former Commander-in-chief, Bill Clinton, but they were subservient to him nonetheless. As we saw earlier, to worship someone means we have great love and admiration for them to the point of adoration and emulation. Thus, the terms "worship" and "subservient" do not mean the same thing. They can exist independent of one another. However, it is just as true to say that they can also exist together. For example, a five star General could have great admiration for his President, and, as such, would willingly and gladly submit himself to the authority of his Commander-in-chief because of the feelings of awe and respect he has for that President.

Jesus declared, "For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me" (John 6:38). We believe that Jesus Christ was Jehovah of the Old Testament. He was the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. He was the God who gave the law to Moses on Mount Sinai. The apostle John wrote that Jesus Christ created this world and that nothing that was made was made without Him. I think it can be said without argument that Jesus Christ is a person of great authority. Yet, not withstanding this fact, He subordinated Himself to the will of His Father. He did more than just merely "obey" when told what to do, He served His Father with His whole heart, mind, and soul. And He did that out of a sense of absolute loving admiration and respect for His Father. Thus Jesus worshipped His Father.

While in the garden of Gethsemane, the time came for Jesus to literally take upon Himself the sins of all the world. This was in preparation for offering Himself as a sacrifice on the cross for our sins. There would have been no sense to His death if He had not first had our guilt transferred to Him. Jesus was God in the flesh. He knew no fear. But as our sins began to distill upon Him, he became "sore amazed." 

Modern scripture tells us that as this happened, His suffering became so exquisite that we can't even comprehend how hard it was for Him to bear up under it. His suffering was so intense that it caused God, the greatest of all, to tremble and bleed because of the pain. This suffering was so intense that Jesus pleaded with His Father in heaven to let this cup pass from Him. Yet, despite what He was going through, Jesus subordinated His will to that of His Father. 

Thus, Jesus, our Savior and our example, served us out of love as an act of worship to God, His Father.

Yet, despite His sacrifice for our sins, surprising at it may seem, nowhere in the scriptures are we told to worship Jesus. It is true that people did worship Him, but there is not one verse of scripture where we are commanded to do so. In fact, Jesus specifically commanded us to worship the Father, not Himself. (see John 4:21,23). Although Jesus is God, it is the Father alone who is the true God. He is the God whom the Son said was greater than He was. He is the God who anointed the Son and gave Him all power. He is the God whom the Son yielded obedience to. As such, He is the God whom the Son not only worshipped, but whom the Son taught us to worship as well. (for a more in-depth look at this subject, read Our God is One. ) And it is the Father, not the Son, who we seek to become like.

But why does God, our Father require us to be subservient to Him? The answer isn't because He is vain or that He needs our obedience. In reality, it is actually the other way around. 

We need to become subservient to Him for our own spiritual advancement because the way to becoming exalted is through the process of learning to serve others. As Jesus stated, "whosoever will be great among you, let him be your servant."

But why is this so?

The power of the priesthood comes from being righteous. Without being righteous, a man may hold the priesthood but it does him no good because he has no power to do anything with his priesthood (D&C 121:36,37). Therefore, it becomes extremely important for us to understand how we become righteous.

The scriptures tell us, "For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself" (Galatians 5:14). "Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law" (Romans 13:10). Love is the basis for all righteousness. 

It is out of a sense of love for others (including our Father in heaven) that we do our home teaching, fulfill our callings, and obey the commandments of God. To do these things without love for others doesn't do anything to increase our righteousness. The more we learn how to truly love others, the more righteous we become. And the more righteous we become, the more power we attain.

If our goal is to become like our Father in heaven, then we need to know what kind of Person He is. The apostle John wrote, "God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him" (1 John 4:16). John specifically states that "God is love." Love isn't just one of God's characteristics, or one of His endearing qualities. God is who He is because He is litterally a being of love.

In 1 John 1:5 we read "that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all." If someone is light then how is it possible for there to be darkness in them? Modern scriptures explains, "And if your eye be single to my glory, your whole bodies shall be filled with light, and there shall be no darkness in you; and that body which is filled with light comprehendeth all things" (D&C 88:67). 

We are a mixture of light and darkness. To have no darkness at all means that we are filled with light. The reason why God is full of light is because He is full of righteousness, or, in other words, love. 

There is no darkness at all within Him because He has total, complete, and unconditional love for everyone and everything. Thus, He is totally, completely, and unconditionally righteous. And because of such righteousness, He has total, complete and unconditional power. In order for us to become like Him and to have the kind of power He has, we must become beings of love to the same extent He is.

The only way to do that is by becoming a servant to others! But our service to others has to be done out of love, not out of duty. To better understand the kind of love we need to develop, all we need to do is look at what kind of love our Father has.

The scriptures declare that God's sole purpose in life is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of His children. As such, He spends all His time serving us! God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son for our sakes, not for His own glory. God, our Father, subordinates His own will to serve us for our own good and for our eternal advancement. But He does this out of love, not out of duty, or vanity. If we want to become like Him, then we have to learn to love as He does. 

That is the reason why God requires us to worship Him and to serve others. It is by doing this that we learn how to become beings of love ourselves and thereby progress in spiritual power until we can attain all that the Father has.

This earth life is designed to train us how to do that. It is meant to teach us how to administer the kingdom of God so that we will know how to administer our own kingdom in the resurrection. God's work is to exalt His children, and He allows us the opportunity to work with Him in that effort. 

As such, we are getting "on the job training" to help prepare us for the time when we will have spirit children of our own and will need to spend our time helping to exalt them just as God is doing with us. Thus, God needs our subservience in order to teach us how to become an eternal father like He is. 

When we fail to submit ourselves to His instruction, in effect, we foolishly become our own instructors in righteousness.

Thus we see that the reason why God requires us to worship and serve Him is not for His praise but for our glory. - [link to 74.125.155.132]

This post WAS added to my Log of Direct Links: 
Thread: Tips for improving the GLP experience.

MC
 

Last Edited by Tru Blu no more on 09/06/2009 08:38 AM

You do know that the different books in bible have been changed don't you?
And some of the teachings have been changed in the bible.
And the entity of Jesus was a composite of different men put together.

The actual Biblical term is "Fool" but for some reason "Retard" has a more effective result of getting people's attention.


I control the heavenly dimensions with the spiritual authority that was given me by Jesus Christ, I never have to worry about "Karma" when I am being obedient to the supreme God of the Universe.

This entity Apollonius of Tyana is the central figure of a certain religious order that was prevalent at that time in Rome and his life was incorporated into the Holy Roman religion or Catholic version of the Christian epic which became the official Roman religion in approximately 300 AD.

There was also energies of several other spiritual leaders of Roman religious sects whose stories were also brought in and there were those spiritual personalities or deities from other Roman religious orders whose histories or religious myths came from other cultures

Krishna for example, of India, was one of the religious cults and groups in Rome, and his story was merged with that of Apollonius of Tyana. The story of Krishna as that entity who came into the earth born of a virgin and who attempted to save people from error and sin, but who was hanged for his efforts

this was incorporated in the story of Jesus and the Apollonius story was also part of this story, and there were also entities whose religion was that of sun worshipping, wherein there was the sun and the 12 houses or signs, and these sun worshippers had their story of Jesus in which the sun god had 12 disciples and these 12 disciples of course reflected the 12 signs of those who were the sun worshippers in Rome. This was of course an astrological religion.

the combination of the many different Roman religious orders or organizations, the different religious sects, forming a composite in which the central heroic character was the Son of God, having 12 disciples, being born of a virgin, whose intent and purpose was to help save mankind, and for his efforts, the entity was slain and put upon a cross; the entity also having certain miraculous powers, including that of those who can heal by touch, or raise from the dead or move into states of suspended animation, such as some of the masters of India have demonstrated in various times throughout history.

Thus, one aspect of this composite known as Jesus moved west to India, and into Kashmir, and was recorded as having been the entity known as Jesus, and lived there to a ripe age. Another aspect of this composite moved eastward along with the Holy Family, and bore a child through Mary Magdalene

this was known as the Holy Family, which the Catholic Church made every effort to eradicate and destroy and remove any trace of the information surrounding that entity, but which the Templars made every effort to preserve and to promote and carry on that Holy Bloodline, even to the point of some hundred years later, taking the Holy Family, the descendants of the Holy Family into the New World, through Newfoundland and into what was later to be called the United States

the entity that contributed to the composite known as Jesus went westward, while another entity who contributed to the composite known as Jesus went eastward.
there were of course, still others.
Attempting to discuss the story of Jesus in a traditional way opens a Pandora's Box of discrepancies, when you approach or seek the truth of the matter, because the Jesus of the Bible, being a composite of many different entities, or several different entities, is not the true story

That may go over for some uneducated mindless sheeple, but I am a trained Linguist with a college degree trained to do translation missionary work. This business of the books of the bible somehow being changed is a lie. There are over 5800 copies scattered through out the world (they are not located in the vatican library as some would have us believe), and to have "changed" anything in them, one would have to first of all, locate each and every one of the 5800 copies, then change each and every one regarding the change to be made, then be able to somehow cover it us so that every Greek and Hebrew scholar would not discover it.

It never happened, and to say that it did is to promote a lie, which you seem to have no problem doing. What kind of "Karma" is going to bite you in the ass for practicing deception?

I have had an Illumination about this subject.

First... each person has a Living FIELD of Activity.... with SELF as the CE#NTER POINT.

Everything that we each Respect and Honor and do not honor or respect is given LIFE by you and me.

for me, it is no longer a debatable thing...

ALL THINGS are both TRUE and False.... becuase YOUR EYES your Life Force ADDS or DISTRACTS from the glory of all things. But everything, has your spirit within it... you are in EVERYTHING ... the GOOD, Bad and Ugly.

What you love and what you hate... is within you... and me... we are the creators that gives life to everything.

Every book is REAL and TRUE.. and if it comes upon you... your LIFE FORCE magnetically brought it to you... from that which lives within you...

We are ALL in conflict within our being... so.. it is manifested with conflict in our personal FIELD OF ACTIVITY.

Everything is you... and living ..... and real.

I now see a new view of all of these types of things...

YOUR SPIRIT BECOMES everything..... in your personal LIVING FIELD of activity.

Everything there... has LIFE and is a LIVING BEING.... even rocks... rugs... furniture... you are... I am the TOTALITY of ALL THINGS... we experience... and we EXPRESS from our experience within our personal living field of activity.

that is all...

You control the heavenly dimensions now.hmmmmmm
it might be time to check yourself back into the
4th floor before you hurt yourself or others.
Just a suggestion from what you have stated
Mr or MS Winglion.