23 Dems going to vote NO on Obamacare

This is called a good start.

+1

Absolutely, that is why I posted this... WE ALL NEED TO KEEP THE PRESSURE ON THEM and keep educating friends and families... e-mail them and show them some of the posts regarding this socialized bill.

NO HEALTH CARE REFORM

HEALTH CARE REFORM DEAD

see it, own it, make it so

+ Infinity

I think it will pass...It's Obamas destiny. Don't get me wrong, I don't want it to pass. If it passes then the economy goes, if not, they will keep proping it up...for now.

2010 cap and trade congress .

The bribery and coercion has yet to begin

They say that, but they'll actually not be present for the rollcall when they vote. Or, they could do like the Federal Reserve Act, and sneek it through when no-one is looking . . .

Obama's destiny my ass! P.S. Economy is already crashed and the dollar is next... China and the gang are not going to let them keep it held up.

Thats the first thing in turning a country into a socialist/facist/communist country. Socialized medicine. Thats why I said that. If they pass this....more spending and more deficits....China will really start buying the gold. Bye, bye, dollar and economy. It's all part of the plan.

The 'go it alone' quote was in reference to the Senate.

These are house dems. They can spare this many and still pass the bill.

To go it alone would require all the Dem Senators.

Obamacare will pass by 7 votes.

These lying bastards.. I don't trust them.
They're all scared shitless right now they'll lose their seat in 2010 and 2012 they are running like wet rats off a sinking ship away from Obama.

Is this why Newt is returning from China today?

"NO" healthcare reform isnt an option, and if thats what you're pushing, you better head for the middle ground. How about this.


I believe our healthcare system does need reform, but I feel that this reform should be driven more by lowering the costs of healthcare through more common sense measures than an entire government overhaul/takeover, my plan is multi-tiered, and I'd appreciate feedback every corner of the political spectrum.

1. Increase the number of doctors available.
This would be done through a bill, that helps pay for the education of people who want to move into the medical field, this money wouldnt just be "given" away, but rather, in exchange for having your education subsidized, you would be required to serve a specific amount of time in government clinics once you graduate. This time spent would also be a period of time where you are judged on the quality of care you can provide, and if you live up to expectations, you would then get a "government certification", this certification would be extremely important, because it brings us to number 2.(These grants/scholarships would also be available to people IN the healthcare field already, that have been there for a certain amount of time, and want to gain some upward mobility(I believe, if given the chance, many nurses could be better doctors than doctors))

2. Make a public option for DOCTORS insurance.
We all know that the price of insuring a doctors practice is the #1 overhead cost for them, and therefore, a cost that is very likely to be passed directly on to the consumer. There being roughly 300,000 physicians in the country, and 300 million people, its an order of magnitude easier to fund the insurance for 300,000 people thats going to lower costs for 300 million, than the problems associated with putting everyone into one basket, and asking the healthy person who takes responsibility for their body, to pay money out to the person who abuses their body their whole life.
This would be done two ways, first, by getting the certification we discussed above (a whole different program would have address certifying doctors that have already been practicing, and are in good standing). Second, any doctor that is certified by the government (and this certification can be lost the same way a medical liscense can), will be able to receive government insurance, and the government will be able to offer this for much lower cost, because there would be a restriction for how large the payout for malapractice lawsuit would be in regards to a "Certified" doctor. Couple that with the quality control measures to reassure that the governments investment in this specific type of insurance would not only be feasible, but would have the ability to turn a profit, which could be used to fund the building of government standardized clinics, encompassing all fields of healthcare, from brain surgery to rehabilitation. I think another big problem with our system is the lack of cohesion from one field to another, I think having doctors see different angles of patient care(how often does a Neurosurgeon get to observe the rehabilitation nessecary to make the surgery a success?).

3. Healthcare representatives, and Judiciary.
To judge the quality of these doctors, and do it right, it can only be done one way, and thats to have elected healthcare representatives, and a judiciary panel made up of doctors that are well versed in the field(25 or more years of experience) The representatives and judiciary would help voice the concerns of the public, and keep the legislative branch of the federal government from canoodling with issues regarding health that they are not experienced with. I believe that every doctor that is "Certified" should have a numerical rating that is a tabulation of many different fields, with the proper weighting. A doctor may not have the best bedside manner, but a very high quality of care, he would lose a couple points for his abrasiveness, but the score would best reflect the quality of the doctor overall. You drop below a specific point, you lose your government subsidized insurance. This gives GOOD doctors incentive by lowering their operating costs, but only does so by holding them accountable at the same time. The problem with just Tort reform is it restricts the publics ability to sue, and does nothing to better regulate the doctors.

I have a couple other little tid bits, and if anyone responds (and please find the flaws, I want to make this conceptually fool-proof).

Theres your ammo, use that, and its foolproof, argue against any modification, you'll be seen as nothing but an obstructionist. People want some relief in healthcare, and we all know that. If you are poor its easier to get healthcare than if you are middle/lower class. Somethings got to give. Another good point is that a public option for insurance WITHOUT a doctors public option, will do nothing but redirect US treasury money to whoever is insuring the doctors. Go forth, and speak the truth...

If the government can't manage the health of the economy(due to rising deficits), how will they be able to manage running a government health care option?

The Government can't make the CDD, FDA or NIH keep the public safe from harmful drugs.

Whatever works...this massive govt expansion of power and spending needs to be stopped, period.

Beware of the "Concessions" that will be thrown as bones to us sheeples....Oh well we got a lot of concessions and worked things out so now the bill is ok!....that's bullshit...the last thing this country needs are biggest fuckups in the universe being given management duties over this country's medical system.

This bill will never fix the real problems...get some sane limits on the litigation business...scum like John Edwards who make tens of millions auto-suing doctors and hospitals and churning and burning settlements is choking the system.

Open up the state insurance laws so we can have REAL competition among insurance companies. Make your health coverage be attached to YOU, not your employer(s).

Zero Tolerance for fraud in the currently run gov system. Why are we not LOUDLY appalled when we hear members of congress saying things like we have billions of dollars in Medicare and Medicaid fraud going on and we really need to stop it.....ummmm hey genius...how can you KNOW there is X amount of fraud going on and you aren't stopping it NOW? HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE?

Get the illegal aliens OUT of the system. Charge their home countries top dollar for whatever emergency services they receive here to save their lives and when any illegal alien from any country shows up in a hospital here? send them right the fuck back. It'll stop being so attractive for them to show up here, and kill this fuckin anchor baby bullshit NOW. "Illegal" has a meaning...if you are here illegally?...tough shit, you should not have your ass kissed and I don't care how cheap you work or what shitty job you are doing...maybe if you weren't here working for dirt money and living 6 families to a residence in squalor and sending that money back home? those jobs wouldn't be so shitty anymore.

The last thing this country needs...and especially right now when we are in a bad slump, is the policies of these uber leftist fucktards which always have been and always will be the most job killing govt intervention and regulation expanding policies that can be thought up by those who are convinced that govt knows best.

How about we start with the failed medical system we already have. NO CURES, jusr pain, suffering and all the money they can squeeze out of you.

what will happen is they will be threatened with " Martial Law in the USA " if it is not passed just like they did the stimulus plan and the bank/auto bailouts, cap N trade ..

Whoops, not logged in, where was I...

Oh yea, the piss poor health care in this country is criminal. MRSA - you get that now from having normal routine operation in hospitals... Drugs they deal... pure ass poison in many cases... CURES??? Where are the CURES???
Treatment for cancer is worse that the damn cancer. My mother is 85 had a small lump in breast and they wanted to do a masectomy! WAKE UP - It's not about HEALTH CARE or HELPING YOU!

Natural Health Care has cures, but of course this country will not allow them to be properly sanctioned for the public. Medical monopoly is what has killed this health system. CHINA has had CURES for 5,000 years! Chinese medicine can dissolve your kidney stones, your cataracts, your gall stones, save your kidneys from dialysis, just to mention a few and for under a hundred bucks in most cases!!!

YOU WANT CHANGE - THEN CHANGE YOUR CONSCIOUSNESS - Wake up and see the broken, corrupt medical system for what it is.

The boat is leaking, lifevests are going fast. Time to bail out...

did you forget that they are liars

they say anything then as soon as you turn around they do the opposite
sometimes they do the opposite even before you have a chance to turn around

they are just like a wife... they lie all the time

Considering that all of them are up for re-election in 2010 and considering how irate the voters are right now, I would think it is going to be a lot more than 23 of them.

Of course, many of them are arrogant enough to think the voters won't remember that they gave them the proverbial finger over the massive plans that fix nothing or the Cap & Gouge/Trade Energy Bill that will definitely put us all in the poor house if we want heat or air conditioning.

All of the plans are far too massive, create a huge and costly health monitoring agency, do not address the cost of malpractice insurance, and are filled with pork projects to pay off their pals.

If it is all defeated, maybe then they will start all over again and pass something that deals with tort reform and insurance regulation first and then a separate bill to deal with providing tax credits or subsidies to every citizen/taxpayer that buys it.

That is all people want. No one wanted the federal government to take over the health care industry or beat us over the head with a nationalized health care system that, of necessity, will end up being a rationing plan because cost will be the number one priority not medical necessity or immediacy of care needed.

Pelosi says they have the votes

Pelosi and Reid Tell President: We Have the Votes; President Wants Bill Passed Soon

[link to blogs.abcnews.com]

They'll SO vote 'yes' when the vote comes!
Just tryin' to be stealthy, in a perfectly sophomoric manner.

Well, I guess they needed to fear the people more than the punks in DC. KEEP IT UP.

If they are politically savvy they will vote no and censure Pelosi, Frank, Dodd to get back in the good graces of the populace.

Passing healthcare reform as proposed currently is political suicide no matter how Obama tries to wrap it up in the "Union label".

At this point, with their recent display of behavior towards the American people, in my book they're damned if they do and damned if they don't. I've had just about all I can take.

That means even if this healthcare fiasco goes away, they won't get my vote and I will work against them getting re-elected, as I promised in the letters which I sent to my "representatives?".

These are 'progressive' Democrats for whom Obamacare is not socialist enough.