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Your LOCAL Gov't Runs the NEW DEBTOR's Prisons

 
DaJavoo
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10/21/2009 08:56 AM
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Your LOCAL Gov't Runs the NEW DEBTOR's Prisons
[link to www.oftwominds.com]

Criminalizing Poverty For Profit: Local Government's New Debtors Prisons (October 20, 2009)


Local government is desperate for new funding but doesn't dare tap the wealthy. So they're busily criminalizing poverty and filling new Debtor's prisons.


Correspondent Jeff Ray sent in this story Milking the Poor: One Family's Fall Into Homelessness (The Atlantic) which is representative of the trend in local government to criminalize poverty for its own enrichment.

Here's the deal. Local government has grown fat in a decade of gargantuan capital gains and real rising real estate taxes. Employees pulling down over $100,000 each are legion, as are public retirees pulling down over $100,000 a year in pension payments. Local government has added 15% more employees even as population grew by a meager 3%. (The numbers may vary in your area but the percentages won't.)

Now the seven fat years are over and local government is not liking the seven lean years.
Now that housing has plummeted, so have the tax rolls; capital gains have dried up and even sales tax revenues are crashing. Despite the usual bleatings of hope, the chances of tax revenues recovering are slightly lower than the proverbial snowball's chance of remaining frozen in Heck.

Foreclosures: 'Worst three months of all time' Despite signs of broader economic recovery, number of foreclosure filings hit a record high in the third quarter - a sign the plague is still spreading.

Meanwhile, a perfect storm is gutting public pension funds.
More Pain for State's Taxpayers, Cities: CALPERS losses $50B. In order for the State amd local governments of California to meet their future pension obligations (paid by CALPERS, the massive public pension fund), they need to kick in hundreds of millions of dollars more in coming years, even as their revenues are falling.

The conclusion that the medical and pension benefits which were promised in the fat years are no longer payable is anathema to public unions and managerial staff alike, and so the machinery of local government has geared up to stripmine the citizens like a giant trawler stripmines the sea: parking tickets have been jacked up to $60 or more, traffic violations are in the hundreds of dollars, speed traps abound, and as noted in the top story, fees for "crimes" like driving without auto insurance now cost more than the insurance itself.

And gosh forbid if you don't pay on time--the penalties double the original fine and then go up from there.

Is there anything more pernicious, malicious and immoral that this criminalization of poverty to engorge the coffers of local government? If John Q. Citizen defaults on his credit card, he might have to endure harrassing phone calls from bill collectors. But worst case, he can unplug his phone or cancel that number and get another phone number. Fortunately, the bank cannot have him imprisoned (yet).

But local government isn't quite as kind and gentle as the bankers. Mess with their revenues (i.e. don't pay the hefty fines they levy) and they'll haul your carcass into court and then into jail (can't make bail? Too bad. You're a full-blown criminal now.)

Exactly what is the difference between racking up $1,000 in fines off an innocuous violation and being imprisoned for lack of payment and a 19th century-era Debtors prison?

Isn't this part of the reason why the Parisian mobs tore down the Bastille?


Does this make any sense at all, arresting people who can't pay their nonsensically stupendous fines and penalties just so government employees don't have to take a cut in pay and benefits? When did a ticket go from $50 to $300 and up? And why? Does anyone think the cost leaped up "for the public good"?

Is getting nailed for a ticket you can't pay really a deterrent to being too poor to keep your auto insurance current?

Let's follow this all the way to the end. Now that John Q. Citizen is in jail because he was nabbed driving without insurance and a big fat fine is outstanding, aren't the taxpayers throwing away $50,000 to $100,000 a year to process his tortured journey through the Kafkaesque court and jail system with those other "dangerous criminals"?

Hey, the war-on-drugs/prison/gulag pays very well, thank you, and filling cells with Mr. Citizen is just grist for the mill.

Now when Mr. Citizen is released (darn it, we can't get blood from a turnip!), his car has been impounded and he owes the towing yard $1,000 which he doesn't have. So he no longer has a car to get to work, or even drive to an interview.

OK, so maybe he was irresponsible in not setting aside enough money for the car insurance. Is that now a criminal offense? Is this the best use of police officers, judges, jails and the "justice" system? Is anyone being deterred by the ruthless criminalization of poverty? Please make the case for that, local politicos and bureaucrats.

Great work, local government. You've not only stolen the citizen's last few dollars, you've also deprived him of his employment opportunities and livelihood.

Here's a thought: you need more tax revenue? Then make the case to the citizens at the ballot box to pay more. Prove you're not squandering the tax money you're already getting by the boatload. Show us how you're going to spend our money as carefully as we do.

If you really want to stripmine somebody's cash assets, why not start with your local Wal-Mart? I can guarantee you they won't leave town when you enact a new ordinance taxing all retail establishments of 50,000 square feet or more.

Or impose a tax on all homes worth more than triple the median price in your zip code. You want to nail somebody with higher taxes? Then go after the top 5% who still have assets. Don't trawl the streets for the folks who can least afford your rapacious imposition of authority.

Bankers aren't the only rapacious greedheads in this nation. Look no farther than city hall, the county building and the State capitol. Just hope it isn't you who runs low on cash and gets nailed with that $395 ticket which soon morphs into $695 and an arrest warrant.


You can't blame local government avarice on Washington or the bankers. All this greed is homegrown, local and entirely unnecessary. As it stands now, 10% or maybe even 20% of the citizenry will soon have outstanding arrest warrants for what amounts to local government Debtors Prison.

Come November 2010, we can only pray that the citizenry "takes care of business" at the ballot box, and all the incumbent politicos who approved this evil criminalization of poverty get tossed out en masse, regardless of party affiliation.



DaJ2cents Everyone's ox is getting gored...as this article points out, some ox owner's have more power than others...
:DJrebelli:
DaJavoo  (OP)

User ID: 797554
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10/21/2009 09:22 AM
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Re: Your LOCAL Gov't Runs the NEW DEBTOR's Prisons
From Chicago...

[link to www.chicagonow.com]


What Mayor Daley Is Not Telling You About Balancing The Budget
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The Parking Ticket Geek on 10.21.09 | no comments |
Baseball bat.jpg
Dear Mayor Daley,

In a few hours, you will mount the dais at City Hall to give us your annual budget speech.

Recently, you've been in the media spotlight explaining to all of us how you're not going to raise our property taxes, or any other taxes, fines or fees.

Being the man of the people that you are, it's bit alarming that you suddenly have come to the realization that the economy has been rough on all us common folk.

Not surprisingly, all this sudden compassion for your constituency seems to coincidentally come after a series of political setbacks that have left you at the weakest moment of your political career. Hmmmm.

But, with all due respect Mr. Mayor, you're not fooling us.

You may not be raising any taxes, fines or fees, but you certainly have plans to increase enforcement.

We know your buddies over at the Dept. of Revenue are looking at an assortment of ways to improve enforcement productivity. Or in other words, write us more tickets. We know LAZ's enforcement crews will start soon and add a minimum of 10% more enforcement staffing to the streets--with plans for even more to come. We know that booting enforcement is preparing to intensify.

City Hall insiders are sharing tips about plans to increase red light camera enforcement and/or increase "fine" amounts in covert ways, like the driving school fees Ald. Burke proposed earlier this year.

Since you're being so frank with your constituents lately, why not tell them yourself how you are going to screw them by not increasing fines, but increasing the total number of violations? Please tell them how you're expecting tens of thousands of additional parking tickets to be written in 2010. But honesty has never been your strong suit has it?

We also know your administration has done no long term financial planning. With just over a pathetic $250,000 in the official "rainy day" fund, even though you are refusing to admit it and going even as far to hide this fact from your own City Council, we know you're going to have to tap into that precious Skyway and parking meter lease reserve funds you set aside for an emergency.

It's great to see, because of your finance department's great skill, the entire $1.16 billion from the 75 year parking meter lease deal, get sucked into your budget black hole in just a handful of years.


So Mr. Mayor, with all due respect of course, we don't appreciate your feigned sympathy for us common folk, when you have that baseball bat of enforcement gripped tightly in that hand behind your back.
:DJrebelli:
Anonymous Coward
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10/21/2009 09:26 AM
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Great article. Really shows how the government nickle and dimes you to death.

It sickens me how they pretend to care.
DaJavoo  (OP)

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10/21/2009 09:36 AM
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Great article. Really shows how the government nickle and dimes you to death.

It sickens me how they pretend to care.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 743646


It's not nickels and dimes any more...and they have the 'authority' to lock your butt up and extract fines for failing to comply that are WORSE than the infraction's penalty!
:DJrebelli:
DaJavoo  (OP)

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10/21/2009 09:39 AM
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Of course, here in Georgia we're still trying to do it the old fashioned way...


Deficit points to tax increase


By Johnny Edwards | Staff Writer
Wednesday, October 21, 2009 [link to chronicle.augusta.com]

If the Augusta Commission's first briefing on next year's budget is any indication, the city is in for a dismal 2010.


The city faces a deficit of nearly $8.6 million,
and City Administrator Fred Russell recommends a tax increase and closing the Augusta Municipal Golf Course.

Collections from a penny sales tax meant to offset property taxes are down, as are ad valorem taxes and state and superior court fines, Mr. Russell told commissioners at a called meeting Tuesday. The law enforcement budget is projected to come up about $5.9 million short, and Mr. Russell said he and Sheriff Ronnie Strength couldn't find any cuts to make.

That hole could be plugged with a 1.317 millage increase, which would add $46.10 to the tax bill on a $100,000 home and put the millage at 92 percent of the city's tax cap, the administrator said.

But that still wouldn't balance the budget.
Among other things, Mr. Russell recommended raising bus fares and cutting services to make up a shortfall of nearly $1.8 million in Augusta Public Transit, cutting department appropriations by 15 percent to save $1.2 million and closing the golf course, known as "The Patch," to save $310,400.

"This is probably the toughest budget that we've had to put together in the eight years that I've been here," Mr. Russell said.

In perhaps the only good news he offered, Mr. Russell said his estimations were conservative and that some of the painful decisions could be put off until next summer, when revenues could turn out to be more than expected.

After the presentation, several officials complained that the city has no way to raise more money.


Mayor Deke Copenhaver suggested passing a resolution in support of the Georgia Municipal Association's efforts to persuade the Legislature to allow cities to collect more sales taxes. Mr. Russell said that with an extra half-penny tax per dollar spent, the city wouldn't be in this situation.

Mayor Pro Tem Alvin Mason also suggested dipping into the Utilities Department's enterprise funds, an idea Jerry Brigham and Jimmy Smith warned against.

"At some point we have to stop looking at just the homeowner to bail us out," Mr. Mason said. "We're not talking about raping and pillaging it." (More at posted link...)

Last Edited by DaJavoo on 10/21/2009 09:41 AM
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DaJavoo  (OP)

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10/21/2009 09:43 AM
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Re: Your LOCAL Gov't Runs the NEW DEBTOR's Prisons
In Ohio, traffic cams were sold as a safety measure...but of course, they were a revenue generating scam...

The intent of the traffic cameras was to increase revenue


October 21, 2009
[link to www.chillicothegazette.com]

In the attempt to convince the voting public that safety was the prime concern for installation of the speed and red-light cameras, Chillicothe City Council and Mayor Joe Sulzer neglected to look beyond dollar signs to realize drivers who violate traffic laws will not let photo cameras deter them from doing so.

Yes, some will alter driving habits to conform at intersections with cameras but show total disregard for traffic laws at all others. This would simply transfer the "safety" factor to an additional but separate location. Cameras won't correct that. On the other hand, maybe they did see far enough ahead to anticipate that it would be a profitable solution. More cameras, maybe?

Apparently, the intent of photo enforcement of traffic laws was to increase revenue to Chillicothe. (More at posted link...)
:DJrebelli:
DaJavoo  (OP)

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10/21/2009 09:46 AM
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And in corn-fed Iowa, they just up the antes...

City Council eyes upping parking ticket
[link to www.dailyiowan.com]
BY NICOLE KARLIS | OCTOBER 21, 2009 7:20 AM
SocialTwist Tell-a-Friend

City officials plan to plow away more snowbanks this winter — which may leave UI students with illegally parked vehicles no choice but to hop on the toboggan to the impound lot.

The Iowa City City Council set a Nov. 2 public hearing on increasing the fine for violating the city’s snow-emergency ordinance from $15 to $50 DJbugeyes at its meeting Tuesday night.

The potential fine increase would join a wave of other changes to the city’s parking regulations.
(More you know where...)

Last Edited by DaJavoo on 10/21/2009 09:46 AM
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DaJavoo  (OP)

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10/21/2009 09:49 AM
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Re: Your LOCAL Gov't Runs the NEW DEBTOR's Prisons
Of course, in Alabama they do things the hard way...

Armageddon in Alabama Proves Parable for Local U.S. Governments
[link to www.bloomberg.com]

By Ken Wells

Oct. 19 (Bloomberg) -- In its 190-year history, Jefferson County, Alabama, has endured a cholera epidemic, a pounding in the Civil War, gunslingers, labor riots and terrorism by the Ku Klux Klan. Now this namesake of Thomas Jefferson, anchored by Birmingham, is staring at what one local politician calls financial “Armageddon.”

The spectacle -- a tax struck down, about 1,000 county employees furloughed, a politician indicted over $3 billion in sewer debt that may lead to the largest municipal bankruptcy in history -- has elbowed its way up the ladder of county lore.

“People want to kill somebody, but they don’t know who to shoot at,” says Russell Cunningham, past president of the Birmingham Regional Chamber of Commerce.

One target of their anger is Larry P. Langford, who was the county commission’s president in 2003 and 2004 and is now mayor of Birmingham. The 61-year-old Democrat goes on trial today, charged in a November 2008 federal indictment with taking cash, Rolex watches and designer clothes in exchange for helping to steer $7.1 million in fees to an Alabama investment banker as the county refinanced its sewer debt.

Jefferson County’s debacle is a parable for billions of dollars lost by state and local governments from Florida to California in transactions done behind closed doors. Selling debt without requiring competition made public officials vulnerable to bankers’ sales pitches, leaving taxpayers to foot the bill for borrowing gone awry. (More at linky...)
:DJrebelli:
DaJavoo  (OP)

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10/21/2009 09:56 AM
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Re: Your LOCAL Gov't Runs the NEW DEBTOR's Prisons
The left coast leads the pack...


It Just Got More Expensive to Live in San Francisco
[link to www.sfgate.com]

As the budget crisis continues to unfold, the city of San Francisco is faced with finding ever-more-creative ways to bring in revenue.

This month the city tacked on 20 cents to the cost of a pack of cigarettes. The new fee will help supplement the Department of Public Works's recently cut street cleaning budget.

Next up? A soda fee, charged to businesses selling sugary drinks, followed by congestion pricing, a fee charged to commuters during rush hour.


Already, swimmers, travelers and ambulance riders are among those paying for the more than $117 million in new fees and fee increases this year.

San Francisco brought in an average of $58 million per year through fees between 2005 and 2007. However, in the past two years that number has jumped to $113 million in 2008 and $117 million in 2009. bbshock

Because of the state's inability to raise taxes without a two-thirds majority vote, local municipalities are forced to hunt for extra revenue where they can. "All cities in California have become heavily reliant on fees," said Greg Wagner, the mayor's budget director.

Unlike taxes, new fees can be legislated in without voter approval.


Read more: [link to www.sfgate.com]

Last Edited by DaJavoo on 10/21/2009 09:57 AM
:DJrebelli:
Anonymous Coward
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10/21/2009 10:13 AM
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Re: Your LOCAL Gov't Runs the NEW DEBTOR's Prisons
bullets are cheap...not long before fed up people start using them
DaJavoo  (OP)

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10/21/2009 10:21 AM
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bullets are cheap...not long before fed up people start using them
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 799225


chuckle I'm hearin' you, AC ~ too bad the turd-burglars in all levels of government are deaf...
:DJrebelli:
Anonymous Coward
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10/21/2009 10:28 AM
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Re: Your LOCAL Gov't Runs the NEW DEBTOR's Prisons
I recently had to pay a $150 fine to get my license reinstated after letting my car insurance lapse for a week.

That was without getting caught driving w/o insurance. It would have been twice as much if that had happened.
DaJavoo  (OP)

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10/21/2009 10:30 AM
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I recently had to pay a $150 fine to get my license reinstated after letting my car insurance lapse for a week.

That was without getting caught driving w/o insurance. It would have been twice as much if that had happened.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 799225


Good Grief ~ you've made the lead article's point.


DJthumup
:DJrebelli:
locomotion
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10/21/2009 10:53 AM
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We may be fast approaching the day when 'three hots and a cot' seems like a good deal. And for those leaving behind families during their stay at the local jail, add in the costs of increased welfare/food stamps/assistance for those dependents suddenly without a breadwinner.

When the local jails are no longer able to house and feed the huge influx of new customers, maybe the Poor House scenario will return?

Crikey, it just keeps getting worse doesn't it?

Here's some historical info on a Poor House (in Canada, near as I can determine). Residency came with a few rules...

[link to web.archive.org]

Folks are also a little appalled when told that those behind its impressive walls were once called Inmates and that they had a long list of rules to live by, none as intimidating as those set in 1877, the year the place opened for business. My copy of the rules is courtesy of a former Keeper, the person in authority who had to administer them. The bell in question is located in the bell tower on top of the building. I believe that it still works.

At the ringing of the morning bell every inmate in the house - the sick and those in confinement excepted - must rise, dress, wash, and be in readiness to proceed to work.

The bell will ring ten minutes before each meal, when all will leave their work, and be in readiness with clean hands and faces for the ringing of the second bell, when they will repair to the Dining Rooms, and take such seats at the table as are assigned to them by those in charge, where they must observe silence, decency and good order.

At the ringing of the slow bell after meals every inmate shall repair to work.

No inmates shall loiter about the kitchen, nor shall any provisions or food - excepting at regular meals - be carried to any part of the house without the consent of the Keeper; nor shall any cooking be done except in the kitchen.

At nine o'clock in the evening, at the ringing of the retiring bell, the inmates must secure the fires, put out the lights, and retire to bed in their respective apartments.

No inmate shall be allowed to trade or exchange clothing, or any other thing with any person whomsoever, or beg of those who visit there; nor shall they receive any money or other article from any one without the consent of the Keeper.

All persons shall diligently and faithfully perform the duty or task allotted to them by the Keeper, unless otherwise excused.

Any person guilty of drunkenness, disobedience, immorality, obscenity, disorderly conduct, profane or indecorous language, theft, waste, or who shall absent himself or herself from the premises without the permission of the Keeper, or who shall be guilty of injuring or defacing any part of the House or furniture therein'; or who shall commit waste of any kind, shall be punished, as the case may seem to demand.

In all cases of solitary confinement, the prisoners shall be debarred from seeing or conversing with any person except the Inspector, the Keeper, or the person employed to supply their wants, and the food of such prisoners shall consist solely of bread and water, unless otherwise ordered by the Inspector or Physician.

Any person who shall have communication either directly or indirectly with any one thus confined, without permission shall be subject to punishment by a like confinement.

No none shall go beyond the limits of the Industrial Farm, unless by the permission of the Keeper, nor remain out beyond the time specified by the Keeper.

The Sabbath Day shall be strictly observed, and no irreligious diversion or unnecessary labour be indulged in.

At the ringing of the bell for the purpose of assembling for religious instruction and worship, every person - unless excused by the Keeper - shall appear dressed in clean apparel in the instructing room and shall behave with decency and sobriety. No noise or disturbance shall be made in any part of the house during such exercises.

All persons wilfully absenting themselves from the place of meeting or violating the Sabbath Day, shall be subject to prompt and severe punishment.

Every person previous to admission or an inmate of the House, shall be subjected to examination and search by the Keeper, or one of his assistants.

No visitor shall have admission to the House on the Sabbath without the written permission of the Inspector, or by the consent of the Keeper upon good cause shown.

All persons aggrieved may prefer their complaints to the Inspector when he is visiting the House.

**
<snip>
Third question. Was anyone able to leave the Poor House? Yes, there were a few people whose financial circumstances changed enough that they were able to leave the facility, the emphasis is on the word FEW. Some of the babies born into the Poor House were taken in, and raised by decent local folks. Others, at the proper age, were bound out as servants or apprentices to people who needed an extra hand around the house or business. Some children knew no other home. They were born, raised and died in Wellington County House of Industry and Refuge. Escape in several instances would the right word to use. There were a number of incidents of people who ran away from the Poor House. I ask you, can you blame them? The most famous case involved a young girl whose body was found in the woods between the house and Kinnettles. If you recall her body was taken to the empty house at Kinnettles, laid out on a table and left until an inquest could be called the next day. Her body disappeared overnight and that's another tale.

Final question. What's taken the place of the Poor House today. Answer. Welfare and pensions.

****
DaJavoo  (OP)

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10/21/2009 11:03 AM
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Re: Your LOCAL Gov't Runs the NEW DEBTOR's Prisons
We may be fast approaching the day when 'three hots and a cot' seems like a good deal. And for those leaving behind families during their stay at the local jail, add in the costs of increased welfare/food stamps/assistance for those dependents suddenly without a breadwinner.

When the local jails are no longer able to house and feed the huge influx of new customers, maybe the Poor House scenario will return?

Crikey, it just keeps getting worse doesn't it?

Here's some historical info on a Poor House (in Canada, near as I can determine). Residency came with a few rules...

[link to web.archive.org]

Folks are also a little appalled when told that those behind its impressive walls were once called Inmates and that they had a long list of rules to live by, none as intimidating as those set in 1877, the year the place opened for business. My copy of the rules is courtesy of a former Keeper, the person in authority who had to administer them. The bell in question is located in the bell tower on top of the building. I believe that it still works.

At the ringing of the morning bell every inmate in the house - the sick and those in confinement excepted - must rise, dress, wash, and be in readiness to proceed to work.

The bell will ring ten minutes before each meal, when all will leave their work, and be in readiness with clean hands and faces for the ringing of the second bell, when they will repair to the Dining Rooms, and take such seats at the table as are assigned to them by those in charge, where they must observe silence, decency and good order.

At the ringing of the slow bell after meals every inmate shall repair to work.

No inmates shall loiter about the kitchen, nor shall any provisions or food - excepting at regular meals - be carried to any part of the house without the consent of the Keeper; nor shall any cooking be done except in the kitchen.

At nine o'clock in the evening, at the ringing of the retiring bell, the inmates must secure the fires, put out the lights, and retire to bed in their respective apartments.

No inmate shall be allowed to trade or exchange clothing, or any other thing with any person whomsoever, or beg of those who visit there; nor shall they receive any money or other article from any one without the consent of the Keeper.

All persons shall diligently and faithfully perform the duty or task allotted to them by the Keeper, unless otherwise excused.

Any person guilty of drunkenness,
disobedience, immorality, obscenity, disorderly conduct, profane or indecorous language, theft, waste, or who shall absent himself or herself from the premises without the permission of the Keeper, or who shall be guilty of injuring or defacing any part of the House or furniture therein'; or who shall commit waste of any kind, shall be punished, as the case may seem to demand.

In all cases of solitary confinement, the prisoners shall be debarred from seeing or conversing with any person except the Inspector, the Keeper, or the person employed to supply their wants, and the food of such prisoners shall consist solely of bread and water, unless otherwise ordered by the Inspector or Physician.

Any person who shall have communication either directly or indirectly with any one thus confined, without permission shall be subject to punishment by a like confinement.

No none shall go beyond the limits of the Industrial Farm, unless by the permission of the Keeper, nor remain out beyond the time specified by the Keeper.

The Sabbath Day shall be strictly observed, and no irreligious diversion or unnecessary labour be indulged in.

At the ringing of the bell for the purpose of assembling for religious instruction and worship, every person - unless excused by the Keeper - shall appear dressed in clean apparel in the instructing room and shall behave with decency and sobriety. No noise or disturbance shall be made in any part of the house during such exercises.

All persons wilfully absenting themselves from the place of meeting or violating the Sabbath Day, shall be subject to prompt and severe punishment.

Every person previous to admission or an inmate of the House, shall be subjected to examination and search by the Keeper, or one of his assistants.

No visitor shall have admission to the House on the Sabbath without the written permission of the Inspector, or by the consent of the Keeper upon good cause shown.

All persons aggrieved may prefer their complaints to the Inspector when he is visiting the House.

**
<snip>
Third question. Was anyone able to leave the Poor House? Yes, there were a few people whose financial circumstances changed enough that they were able to leave the facility, the emphasis is on the word FEW. Some of the babies born into the Poor House were taken in, and raised by decent local folks. Others, at the proper age, were bound out as servants or apprentices to people who needed an extra hand around the house or business. Some children knew no other home. They were born, raised and died in Wellington County House of Industry and Refuge. Escape in several instances would the right word to use. There were a number of incidents of people who ran away from the Poor House. I ask you, can you blame them? The most famous case involved a young girl whose body was found in the woods between the house and Kinnettles. If you recall her body was taken to the empty house at Kinnettles, laid out on a table and left until an inquest could be called the next day. Her body disappeared overnight and that's another tale.

Final question. What's taken the place of the Poor House today. Answer. Welfare and pensions.

****
 Quoting: locomotion 799263


Good grief, locomotion, you're just full of good cheer this morning...sounds a lot like boot camp. And, it would appear they also had a 'contraband' issue much like today's prisons.

Actually, when it gets REALLY bad, they will just open the doors to debtor's prisons and all the actual hoosegows and let the critters get their three hots and cots from folks like you and me.

:DJrebelli:
locomotion
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10/21/2009 11:26 AM
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Good grief, locomotion, you're just full of good cheer this morning...sounds a lot like boot camp. And, it would appear they also had a 'contraband' issue much like today's prisons.

Actually, when it gets REALLY bad, they will just open the doors to debtor's prisons and all the actual hoosegows and let the critters get their three hots and cots from folks like you and me.

 Quoting: DaJavoo


LOL Yeah, at this rate I'll never make the shortlist for The Little Ray Of Sunshine Award!

This part is my favorite:
Others, at the proper age, were bound out as servants or apprentices to people who needed an extra hand around the house or business. Some children knew no other home. They were born, raised and died in Wellington County House of Industry and Refuge.


Behold! A Brave New (old) World!

muahaha, don't ya love it when a plan comes together?
Anonymous Coward
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10/21/2009 11:33 AM
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Re: Your LOCAL Gov't Runs the NEW DEBTOR's Prisons
No contract, No case, mofo.
DaJavoo  (OP)

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10/21/2009 11:33 AM
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Re: Your LOCAL Gov't Runs the NEW DEBTOR's Prisons

Good grief, locomotion, you're just full of good cheer this morning...sounds a lot like boot camp. And, it would appear they also had a 'contraband' issue much like today's prisons.

Actually, when it gets REALLY bad, they will just open the doors to debtor's prisons and all the actual hoosegows and let the critters get their three hots and cots from folks like you and me.



LOL Yeah, at this rate I'll never make the shortlist for The Little Ray Of Sunshine Award! lmao

This part is my favorite:
Others, at the proper age, were bound out as servants or apprentices to people who needed an extra hand around the house or business. Some children knew no other home. They were born, raised and died in Wellington County House of Industry and Refuge.


Behold! A Brave New (old) World!

muahaha, don't ya love it when a plan comes together?

 Quoting: locomotion 678992


Yeah, I didn't miss that one ~ legalized slavery what t'was. God helped the souls that 'escaped.'

Naturally, it depends WHO's plan is coming together!


DJbigwink
:DJrebelli:
DaJavoo  (OP)

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10/21/2009 11:35 AM
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Re: Your LOCAL Gov't Runs the NEW DEBTOR's Prisons
No contract, No case, mofo.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 760482

Not the issue ~ local/state authorities can place your ass in jail for infractions and/or impose FINES/FEES way out of normal bounds in order to make up their budget shortfalls. It's happening. This is not about 'contracts.'
:DJrebelli:
Evil Twin

10/21/2009 11:44 AM
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Time to cut the Mayors' and City Councils' salaries to minimum wage. Hell, all elected officials' salaries, for that matter.
DaJavoo  (OP)

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10/21/2009 11:51 AM
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Re: Your LOCAL Gov't Runs the NEW DEBTOR's Prisons
Time to cut the Mayors' and City Councils' salaries to minimum wage. Hell, all elected officials' salaries, for that matter.
 Quoting: Evil Twin


Cut them period. Gov't can do a lot with a helluva lot less. Make much of the 'service' like jury duty. They do their business and then go home ~ no loitering around to pick up a paycheck.

:DJrebelli:
Anonymous Coward
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10/21/2009 11:51 AM
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Re: Your LOCAL Gov't Runs the NEW DEBTOR's Prisons
bump pennywise
Anonymous Coward
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10/21/2009 11:52 AM
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Good Thread Daj! applause bump
Anonymous Coward
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10/21/2009 11:53 AM
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Well coordinated, well planned and made thread.

:pin:
locomotion
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10/21/2009 12:00 PM
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This 'plan' also works on an intrastate basis.

Our son moved to Oregon for a couple years, an adventure ya know? Got financially raped in spite of his planning ahead, mostly over housing that when lease was signed said 'parking included', then oopsie that wasn't the case (but we got your signed lease so BOHICA.)

Short version, he got a parking ticket right before he moved back home (here), didn't pay on time, fines doubled-quadrupled-eventually a $15 parking ticket morphed into hundreds of dollars, resulting in his Driver's License being suspended in Oregon (over an unpaid parking ticket!).

Worse yet, because he was suspended in Oregon, he couldn't reinstate his DL here UNTIL all fines were cleared in Oregon. And of course he couldn't get to work without a DL, so how to pay those fines? Bank of Mom and Dad had to help out.

One filthy hand washes the other I guess. Bastages.
WatchDawg
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10/21/2009 12:01 PM
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bump
DaJavoo  (OP)

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10/21/2009 12:01 PM
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Re: Your LOCAL Gov't Runs the NEW DEBTOR's Prisons
Good Thread Daj! applause bump
 Quoting: RememberThis


Well coordinated, well planned and made thread.

pin
 Quoting: RememberThis



DJthanx But if you're thinkin' I should volunteer to organize anything at the local gov't level ~ fugeddabout it!

lmao
:DJrebelli:
Anonymous Coward
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10/21/2009 12:02 PM
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Good Thread Daj! applause bump



Well coordinated, well planned and made thread.

:pin:



:DJthanx: But if you're thinkin' I should volunteer to organize anything at the local gov't level ~ fugeddabout it!

lmao
 Quoting: DaJavoo

chuckle
DaJavoo  (OP)

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10/21/2009 12:21 PM
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Re: Your LOCAL Gov't Runs the NEW DEBTOR's Prisons
This 'plan' also works on an intrastate basis.

Our son moved to Oregon for a couple years, an adventure ya know? Got financially raped in spite of his planning ahead, mostly over housing that when lease was signed said 'parking included', then oopsie that wasn't the case (but we got your signed lease so BOHICA.)

Short version, he got a parking ticket right before he moved back home (here), didn't pay on time, fines doubled-quadrupled-eventually a $15 parking ticket morphed into hundreds of dollars, resulting in his Driver's License being suspended in Oregon (over an unpaid parking ticket!).

Worse yet, because he was suspended in Oregon, he couldn't reinstate his DL here UNTIL all fines were cleared in Oregon. And of course he couldn't get to work without a DL, so how to pay those fines? Bank of Mom and Dad had to help out.

One filthy hand washes the other I guess. Bastages.
 Quoting: locomotion 678992


Jeebus ~ that's one of the most fucked up things I've heard in a while. DJthumdown

Last Edited by DaJavoo on 10/21/2009 12:22 PM
:DJrebelli:
DaJavoo  (OP)

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10/21/2009 01:01 PM
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DaJ2cents In Kokomo, they seem to have 'quasi' debtors prisons...

No debtors’ prison in Howard County


By Patrick Munsey staff writer [link to www.kokomoperspective.com]

Every week, Howard County Superior Court III judge Doug Tate sets as many as 500-600 small claims cases for hearings. Three days a week he listens to plaintiffs and defendants dispute and confirm debts or explain why the debts haven't been paid.

Every month, dozens of civil body attachment warrants related to these small claims are served, resulting in a trip to jail. In September, 36 such warrants were positively identified as being served by local law enforcement.

But being incarcerated for bad debts is illegal in the United States. This country doesn't have debtors' prisons. How can hundreds of people be sent to the county lock-up each year for not paying their bills? And how does that affect Howard County's persistent jail overcrowding problem?

The simple answer, according to Tate, is people aren't sent to jail for not paying their debts.

DJbigwink

"I've never issued a contempt warrant on someone who doesn't have the means to pay or has the means to pay and just didn't pay," said Tate. "The contempt warrants are issued for those people who have been ordered to appear in court to answer to their current wages or job status and didn't show up.

"The reason the warrants get issued is because they violated my order that required them to be in court. Every single one of those are indirect contempt of court because they failed to obey a direct order to appear. There are literally hundreds of those warrants issued."

The volume of small claims filings is always heavy, and the current state of the economy isn't helping things. Any plaintiff with a claim for damages or debts owed of up to $6,000 can use the small claims process in an attempt to get paid, and they do. As of Oct. 1, more than 3,300 small claims had been filed in Howard County for the year. In 2008, a total of 4,551 small claims cases were filed in Tate's court.

A small claims case doesn't just get one day in court, however. According to Tate, there is a two-stage process involved. The first stage consists of proving a debt is owed, either by affirmation from the defendant or by findings at trial. The second stage involves a proceeding supplemental.

"(The plaintiffs) file a request with the court that the person be ordered back into court to answer why the judgment hasn't been paid," said Tate. "It is used solely to determine if a debtor has any income or assets that can be used to satisfy the debt. If a person has income or assets that can satisfy the judgments, then I can order that they be attached to satisfy the judgment.

"But my job isn't to bring them in and harass them to the point that they break down and pay the judgment or threaten them with jail time if they don't pay. Without any income or assets, I am limited in what I can do."

That, Tate said, is where he sees frustration come into play. As a judge, he cannot advise plaintiffs how to collect a debt, nor can he advise defendants how to avoid paying them. People have a misperception when it comes to the court's role in a small claim.

"Contrary to popular opinion - and many plaintiffs' perceptions of what we do as judges - we are not advocates for one side or the other," said Tate. "It is my desire that the judgments be satisfied, certainly. It makes things a lot easier for the court and our staff. But it's not my job to advocate on behalf of the plaintiff or to see that the judgment gets paid."

That doesn't mean that Tate isn't willing to work with both sides to reach a resolution. Just because a body attachment is issued for a failure to appear in court doesn't mean he won't rescind the order if the defendant is contrite and makes contact to resolve the issue.

"I do like to work with folks if they have a legitimate reason that they weren't in court," said Tate. "I want to see that they're at least making an effort to make it to court to tell us what their status is and making an effort to get their judgment satisfied. I go through lots of requests to rescind those warrants.

"The last thing I want people to do is think they have a warrant and just disappear and never report back to us. I encourage and reward those folks who come to us and tell us they made a mistake by missing their court dates."

Tate also cannot use his court to hound a debtor for the money owed. He explained that the law does not allow for proceeding supplementals to be scheduled on a weekly basis, for instance. A reasonable amount of time must be allowed between hearings so that circumstances have an opportunity to change.

That said, a trip to the Howard County Criminal Justice Center does seem to speed the payment process along. lmao According to Howard County Sheriff Marty Talbert, people who are brought in for failing to appear in court on a bad debt have a surprising way of finding money to bond out of jail in many cases. And the court can order bond money to be used to satisfy the debt.

"Most of the time when the attachments come in, it's a situation where the attachments are issued for not appearing in court," said Talbert. "I understand the frustration of folks involved in this type of litigation. Most of the times when the folks come in here, they don't stay for a large number of days. They get taken to court to find out why the matter is not being taken care of. But I am amazed by the number of people who come in on an attachment, and it does get taken care of right away. They bond out and make an attempt to get the matter resolved."

Body attachment arrests do have a negative impact on the jail population. After all, they accounted for 36 bodies in the jail in September for a variable length of time. But Talbert has difficulty feeling too inconvenienced by the non-criminal detainees.

"It's a Catch-22," said Talbert. "With the jail population up, it doesn't help our situation any to have folks brought in on attachments. But I also sympathize with the folks when it doesn't appear there is progress being made towards resolving the judgment, especially when the defendants don't keep in contact with the court."

:DJrebelli:
Doomorrow

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10/21/2009 01:26 PM
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Judges = Bankers in black robes

I showed up in court to defend myself against an alleged creditor and the judge so wanted to hold me in contempt for challenging the plaintiff's allegations.





GLP