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The RAPTURE is COMING! Get in the Ark NOW while you can!!!

 
Anonymous Coward
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11/18/2009 03:34 PM
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The RAPTURE is COMING! Get in the Ark NOW while you can!!!
"Peace and Safety"

"Peace and Safety"

"Peace and Safety"

and sudden destruction overtakes them ...

As in the days of Noah ...

WATCH and PRAY and PREPARE!

God Bless!!!
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/18/2009 03:35 PM
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Re: The RAPTURE is COMING! Get in the Ark NOW while you can!!!
Jesus Christ is the ARK! Believe unto Him and you shall be saved!

Believe in Jesus Christ and accept Him today into your life.

God Bless!!!
Doctor Russ

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11/18/2009 03:42 PM
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Re: The RAPTURE is COMING! Get in the Ark NOW while you can!!!
Here is the Ark of the New Jerusalem
Sunday Nov 9/1
Anonymous Coward
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Israel
11/18/2009 03:44 PM
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Re: The RAPTURE is COMING! Get in the Ark NOW while you can!!!
"Peace and Safety"

"Peace and Safety"

"Peace and Safety"

and sudden destruction overtakes them ...

As in the days of Noah ...

WATCH and PRAY and PREPARE!

God Bless!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 641257

Where and who is saying "Peace and Safety"????
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/18/2009 03:57 PM
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Re: The RAPTURE is COMING! Get in the Ark NOW while you can!!!
Biblical WARNING:

"When people say, "There is peace and security," destruction will strike them as suddenly as labor pains come to a pregnant woman, and they will not be able to escape." - 1 Thess 5:3

This message is being preached everywhere. Especially now in relation to Israel and the middle-east peace process. Its like the Bible took the events right out of its place, right now and made a prophetic commentary about it.

WE ARE LIVING IN THE TIMES. THE TIME IS NOW TO FIND JESUS CHRIST AND GET SAVED!!! MAKE YOUR PEACE WITH JESUS CHRIST NOW OR FACE THE WRATH OF GOD THAT IS ABOUT TO COME UPON THE WORLD IN TRIBULATIONS.

Please, pray to Jesus Christ and ask Him into your heart and in your life. I don't want to see anyone going through the horrors of the Tribulations. Why should you when you Jesus Christ is giving you a ticket out? Take that ticket NOW!!!


The United Nations:
[link to www.un.org]

Grassroots operations in the United States:
[link to www.peaceandsecurityinitiative.org]

[link to www.peaceandsecurity.org]

Obama:

In his speech:
[link to www.youtube.com]

In his government:
[link to www.peaceandsecurityinitiative.org]

In his various addresses and talks:
[link to www.expressindia.com]

[link to www.whitehouse.gov]

[link to latimesblogs.latimes.com]

[link to www.tamileelamnews.com]
Anonymous Coward
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11/18/2009 04:00 PM
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Re: The RAPTURE is COMING! Get in the Ark NOW while you can!!!
You are so right but....you need to wait till the final trumpet! Get ready for some dross to be burned off your soul first!
.
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11/18/2009 04:04 PM
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Re: The RAPTURE is COMING! Get in the Ark NOW while you can!!!
There is no generalised pick up everyone type rapture, there is a blink of an eye, a catching away, there will be safe havens(read Isaiah)
Isa 4:5 And the LORD will create upon every dwelling place of mount Zion, and upon her assemblies, a cloud and smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night: for upon all the glory a defence.
Isa 4:6 And there shall be a tabernacle for a shadow in the daytime from the heat, and for a place of refuge, and for a covert from storm and from rain.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/18/2009 04:08 PM
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Re: The RAPTURE is COMING! Get in the Ark NOW while you can!!!
It does not matter how you interpret the "Catching-Away" for it simply is what it says, a catching away, in a blink of an eye, where the DEAD will RISE first and we that are alive will meet the Lord, Jesus Christ in the air.

The time is NOW.

Jesus IS COMING!

WATCH and PREPARE!!!

God Bless!!!
scrat

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11/18/2009 04:09 PM
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I missed it. Had to run to the store.
byekitty
Dum spiro spero / "While I breathe, I hope" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
Follower of Jesus

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11/18/2009 04:12 PM
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Re: The RAPTURE is COMING! Get in the Ark NOW while you can!!!
"Peace and Safety"

"Peace and Safety"

"Peace and Safety"

and sudden destruction overtakes them ...

As in the days of Noah ...

WATCH and PRAY and PREPARE!

God Bless!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 641257



I agree very soon OP but not quite yet.

I desire to see our Lord probably more than anyone but the events haven't quite fallen into place yet. The christians must be blamed for the next catastrophy whether self inflicted or natural it will be the Christians fault. Once this happens it's on.
Follower of Jesus (FoJ)
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/18/2009 04:13 PM
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Re: The RAPTURE is COMING! Get in the Ark NOW while you can!!!
Thread: Iran has officially rejected the UN nuclear deal

We have until this month and at the latest the end of December until the Israelies decide wether to carry out their warning.

I'm pretty sure they will since IRAN having nuclear weapons would threaten the very existance of the nation of Israel.

LESS THAN 2 MONTHS PEOPLE!!!

THIS IS IT!
.
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11/18/2009 04:15 PM
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It does not matter how you interpret the "Catching-Away" for it simply is what it says, a catching away, in a blink of an eye, where the DEAD will RISE first and we that are alive will meet the Lord, Jesus Christ in the air.

The time is NOW.

Jesus IS COMING!

WATCH and PREPARE!!!

God Bless!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 641257

Amen, keep warning, He is almost here.
Anonymous Coward
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11/18/2009 04:15 PM
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Re: The RAPTURE is COMING! Get in the Ark NOW while you can!!!
"THUS SAITH THE LORD".....



MY TRUTH is marching on...but WOE to those who at this time HINDER it from reaching the ears and eyes I have died to save. WOE to the shepherds who keep the flock from hearing the warnings I send my messengers to deliver. WOE to those who call the ruth a lie and the lie a truth. WOE to those who mix precious and vile in the same cup and call it HOLY. WOE to those who have responsability and a position of leadership yet bow to compromise in the name of "peace" WOE to those who at THIS TIME refuse to hear the THUNDER of my words and tread on the authority of my HOLY WORD and twist it to suit them.



WOE WOE WOE..for the day is upon you NOW when all those who do these things will PERISH from the earth. The chaff will be BURNT UP along with all the hirelings..the compromisers..the satanic infiltrators and the liars and those who USE my salvation as a means of commercialism and MONEY making.



WOE upon the churches..for it is NOT revival you will get but FIRE FIRE FIRE..it is coming. YOu say "Bring on the day of the LORD"..I will most CERTAINLY BRING IT ON..upon your heads..and it will be a day of slaughter..of darkness..NOT a day of revival as you all crave for your OWN edification and greed and self satisfaction.



You look upon your money and your grand buildings as a sign of my blessing..but WOE to you because it will be a WITNESS AGAINST YOU on that very CLOSE DAY!



I WILL GIVE BUT ONE SHORT SPACE OF TIME..and then it will FALL..suddenly and without WARNING..and without REMEDY...for my name is being SMEARED by the doings of the decievers...and I will NOT STAND for it anylonger. I have waited LONG ENOUGH..and now the messengers I have trained up are DESPISED..but its not them you despise for they speak MY WORDS..it is ME..the LORD GOD MOST HIGH JESUS CHRIST..FAITHFUL AND TRUE and I will NOT TOLLERATE the decpetions anylonger.The wheat and the tares have grown together LONG ENOUGH..the time has come for HARVEST..and the STUBBLE WILL NOT STAND!
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 641257
United States
11/18/2009 04:18 PM
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Re: The RAPTURE is COMING! Get in the Ark NOW while you can!!!
"Peace and Safety"

"Peace and Safety"

"Peace and Safety"

and sudden destruction overtakes them ...

As in the days of Noah ...

WATCH and PRAY and PREPARE!

God Bless!!!



I agree very soon OP but not quite yet.

I desire to see our Lord probably more than anyone but the events haven't quite fallen into place yet. The christians must be blamed for the next catastrophy whether self inflicted or natural it will be the Christians fault. Once this happens it's on.
 Quoting: Follower of Jesus



Have you thought that perhaps the reason the Christians are persecuted during the TRIBULATIONS is because of the great deception itself that fools the world?

Some people say that it is an alien conspiracy lie that will sweep people into believing the events of the RAPTURE was somehow fabricated by these "aliens" or that the aliens themselve will come claiming that they purged the Christians from the earth to explain away the "RAPTURE" event.

In any case, in either scenario anyone who becomes a Christian afterwards will be persecuted for they will be seen as an "outsider", somehow "wrong" or "evil" or not part of "humanity".

Any number of these scenarios could occur to bring about the turn against the TRUTH of the GOSPEL.

So, I don't believe that we need to see a huge catastrophe blamed on the Christians to see persecution happen. After all aren't Christians already being persecuted and written off? Is not the current Apostacy in full force in this nation and throughout the world, where most deny that Jesus Christ IS THE ONLY WAY TO GOD?

But you are also correct that it may happen as you think as well. We simply do not know. But we do know the Lord is coming quickly.

All the events in this world point to HIS SOON RETURN!

God Bless!!!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 718974
Panama
11/18/2009 04:21 PM
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Re: The RAPTURE is COMING! Get in the Ark NOW while you can!!!
Thread: Iran has officially rejected the UN nuclear deal

We have until this month and at the latest the end of December until the Israelies decide wether to carry out their warning.

I'm pretty sure they will since IRAN having nuclear weapons would threaten the very existance of the nation of Israel.

LESS THAN 2 MONTHS PEOPLE!!!

THIS IS IT!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 641257


The rapture will not happen prior to the tribulation. It occurs at the 7th trumpet.

Tribulation and God's wrath are not one and the same. The church is appointed tribulation, and we will be here for it. However we are not appointed God's wrath.

Therefore, we will be around for the seals and trumpets but not subject to the bowl of wrath judgments.

The tares are reaped first, THEN the wheat is gathered.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 641257
United States
11/18/2009 04:26 PM
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Re: The RAPTURE is COMING! Get in the Ark NOW while you can!!!
Thread: Iran has officially rejected the UN nuclear deal

We have until this month and at the latest the end of December until the Israelies decide wether to carry out their warning.

I'm pretty sure they will since IRAN having nuclear weapons would threaten the very existance of the nation of Israel.

LESS THAN 2 MONTHS PEOPLE!!!

THIS IS IT!


The rapture will not happen prior to the tribulation. It occurs at the 7th trumpet.

Tribulation and God's wrath are not one and the same. The church is appointed tribulation, and we will be here for it. However we are not appointed God's wrath.

Therefore, we will be around for the seals and trumpets but not subject to the bowl of wrath judgments.

The tares are reaped first, THEN the wheat is gathered.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 718974



The 7th trumpet which is blown is a trumpet of an angel.

The TRUMPET OF GOD is the trumpet that calls the believers in the "catching-away" event which most Christians refer to as the RAPTURE.

The 7 seals, 7 trumpets and 7 bowls ARE ALL GOD'S JUDGEMENT, for they are being carried about by HIM OPENING UP THE SEALS, the LAMB WHO IS FOUND WORTHY, as John the Apostile describes in his vision.

so yes ALL OF THE TRIBULATIONS IS GOD's JUDGEMENT, because ALL OF THE TRIBULATIONS start with Jesus opening the seals in the first place. It is HE that is causing it to happen.

So no Jesus Christ who LIVES IN US will spare us ALL OF IT.

God Bless!!!
Anonymous Coward
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Panama
11/18/2009 04:26 PM
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Re: The RAPTURE is COMING! Get in the Ark NOW while you can!!!
"THUS SAITH THE LORD".....



MY TRUTH is marching on...but WOE to those who at this time HINDER it from reaching the ears and eyes I have died to save. WOE to the shepherds who keep the flock from hearing the warnings I send my messengers to deliver. WOE to those who call the ruth a lie and the lie a truth. WOE to those who mix precious and vile in the same cup and call it HOLY. WOE to those who have responsability and a position of leadership yet bow to compromise in the name of "peace" WOE to those who at THIS TIME refuse to hear the THUNDER of my words and tread on the authority of my HOLY WORD and twist it to suit them.



WOE WOE WOE..for the day is upon you NOW when all those who do these things will PERISH from the earth. The chaff will be BURNT UP along with all the hirelings..the compromisers..the satanic infiltrators and the liars and those who USE my salvation as a means of commercialism and MONEY making.



WOE upon the churches..for it is NOT revival you will get but FIRE FIRE FIRE..it is coming. YOu say "Bring on the day of the LORD"..I will most CERTAINLY BRING IT ON..upon your heads..and it will be a day of slaughter..of darkness..NOT a day of revival as you all crave for your OWN edification and greed and self satisfaction.



You look upon your money and your grand buildings as a sign of my blessing..but WOE to you because it will be a WITNESS AGAINST YOU on that very CLOSE DAY!



I WILL GIVE BUT ONE SHORT SPACE OF TIME..and then it will FALL..suddenly and without WARNING..and without REMEDY...for my name is being SMEARED by the doings of the decievers...and I will NOT STAND for it anylonger. I have waited LONG ENOUGH..and now the messengers I have trained up are DESPISED..but its not them you despise for they speak MY WORDS..it is ME..the LORD GOD MOST HIGH JESUS CHRIST..FAITHFUL AND TRUE and I will NOT TOLLERATE the decpetions anylonger.The wheat and the tares have grown together LONG ENOUGH..the time has come for HARVEST..and the STUBBLE WILL NOT STAND!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 821669


Wow! That witnesses to me. Thank you.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 718974
Panama
11/18/2009 04:31 PM
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Re: The RAPTURE is COMING! Get in the Ark NOW while you can!!!
Thread: Iran has officially rejected the UN nuclear deal

We have until this month and at the latest the end of December until the Israelies decide wether to carry out their warning.

I'm pretty sure they will since IRAN having nuclear weapons would threaten the very existance of the nation of Israel.

LESS THAN 2 MONTHS PEOPLE!!!

THIS IS IT!


The rapture will not happen prior to the tribulation. It occurs at the 7th trumpet.

Tribulation and God's wrath are not one and the same. The church is appointed tribulation, and we will be here for it. However we are not appointed God's wrath.

Therefore, we will be around for the seals and trumpets but not subject to the bowl of wrath judgments.

The tares are reaped first, THEN the wheat is gathered.



The 7th trumpet which is blown is a trumpet of an angel.

The TRUMPET OF GOD is the trumpet that calls the believers in the "catching-away" event which most Christians refer to as the RAPTURE.

The 7 seals, 7 trumpets and 7 bowls ARE ALL GOD'S JUDGEMENT, for they are being carried about by HIM OPENING UP THE SEALS, the LAMB WHO IS FOUND WORTHY, as John the Apostile describes in his vision.

so yes ALL OF THE TRIBULATIONS IS GOD's JUDGEMENT, because ALL OF THE TRIBULATIONS start with Jesus opening the seals in the first place. It is HE that is causing it to happen.

So no Jesus Christ who LIVES IN US will spare us ALL OF IT.

God Bless!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 641257


No, the church is one of the two witnesses and will not be removed.

Do a study on the two witnesses and compare their fate with that of the saints.

Learn who the candlesticks and olive trees are.

Jesus spares us from the second death, not from persecution and tribulation, which is our lot.
Anonymous Coward
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11/18/2009 04:33 PM
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Re: The RAPTURE is COMING! Get in the Ark NOW while you can!!!
DEBUNK THIS LINE BY LINE I DARE YOU!!!

But so far not ONE of you pre tribbers has bothered to READ it..let alone debunk it...so I will post it again.

IF you cannot bother to debunk this..LINE BY LINE..thus PROVING you have truly studied it..then it only goes to show you LOVE your delusion and are totally UNTEACHABLE and stubborn.





I used to buy into the BS pre trib garbage for 20 YEARS..until I decided..do i believe what I believe BECAUSE I have been TAUGHT it??

Or do I believe what I believe because I STUDIED it for MYSELF??

HERE are my results.

I HOPE you have the GUTS to actually READ it..it may change your life.

=========================================================

Scriptures that prove the post trib rapture.


The first thing I will say is to prove the post trib rapture you only need to show two things in scripture (although I will do much more than that in this post) #1 that the 2nd coming is after the Tribulation, and #2 that the rapture is at the 2nd coming. (side note: the resurrection of the just is also at the post trib 2nd coming of Christ yet before the rapture this is important to know as we move on)

So #1 The 2nd coming is after the tribulation
Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And (THEN)he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.

There is no mistaking, the meaning of this verse, nor can you mistake when it will take place. The coming of the Son of man is immediately after the tribulation of those day. Just to show that this is the Great Tribulation and just one tribulation of many lets start the text at verse 21 and read through verse 31.
Matthew 24:21-31
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days be shortened, there shall no flesh be saved: but for the elects sake those days shall be shortened.
23 then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.(Kinda hard to do..seeing as you think the ELECT wont BE here huh?)

25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.(Not a very secret event eh?)

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.

There is no doubt that this is referring to The Great Tribulation and not just a tribulation. We also see that it is after the tribulation that Jesus returns. We also see that there is a gathering together of the elect at this point. Some argue that they are gathered from Heaven and not from Earth because they were raptured seven years earlier before the tribulation started. So I will now show in Mark 13:24-27, the sister scripture to Matthew 24:29-31 that they not only gathered from Heaven, but from Heaven and Earth.
Mark 13:24-27
24 But in those days, after this tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light.25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then he shall send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

So we see that Jesus gathers the elect from Heaven and Earth at the end of the tribulation from Heaven'' the dead in Christ'' from Earth '' those that are still living''. We also see that this is the Great Tribulation not a tribulation as verse 19 shows

Mark 13:19 For in those day there shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.

We can make the case from these scriptures that the resurrection of the just, and the rapture is after the tribulation. However that is not the point I am using them to make. The point is the second coming of Christ is after the Great Tribulation, and biblically you can clearly see that this is the case. Now I will show you that the rapture is at this post trib second coming.

#2 The rapture is at the 2nd coming of Christ (which per point 1 is post trib.
1st Thessalonians 4:15-17
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not preceed them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend with a shout, with the voice of an arch angel, and with the trump of God: and the dead will rise first:(THE RESSURECTION OF THE JUST!)
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall ever be with the Lord.

There are two main things I would like you to notice about this verse. First ....that the dead in Christ rise first. This is important because, there will be scripture use later that speaks of the resurrection of the just happening at the second coming, and we need to realize that the living will not precede the dead but will be caught up after them. So if the resurrection of the just is post trib then the rapture would be as well. Secondly I will give you the timing of this event that all agree is the rapture.

Verse 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not preceed them which are asleep.

The rapture takes place at the coming of the Lord, which we have already shown is after the tribulation. I could stop right now this is all the proof we need, but I have more. By the way, some thing for you to notice if a pretrib teacher ever teaches on the rapture they will skip verse 15 and quote verse 16 and 17 only. Is this open deception or an over sight? I will let you decide.
 
1st Corinthians 15:20-23
20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward that they are Christ's at his coming.
We will all be resurrected and there will be an order. Jesus is first, that has already happen, and then those that are Christ's, those that have been saved (Christians) at His coming. There is no mention of a resurrection of the righteous between Jesus' resurrection and his second coming. As a matter of fact it says that those that belong to Christ will be resurrected at the post trib second coming. We saw in 1st Thessalonians that the dead are raised before the living are raptured. So if the resurrection of the dead in Christ is at the post trib second coming then the rapture has to be as well.
 
2nd Thessalonians 2:1-3
1 Now we beseech you, bretheren. by the coming of the Lord and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled in spirit, nor by word, nor by letter from us, and the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there be a falling away first, and the man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.

In verse 1 Paul is speaking of two events. the coming of the Lord or '' The second coming'' and the gathering together unto him or '' the resurrection of the just and or rapture''. In verse 3 we see that Paul says these two event happen on a singular day ''That day''. Also in verse 3 Paul writes that that day could not happen until after the falling away takes place and the anti christ is revealed. Some pretrib preachers go as far as to say the falling away is the rapture, teaching that the rapture must come before the second coming. However the greek word for falling away is ''apostasia'', which literally means a turning from the truth. So the church itself will turn from the truth (Seems the pre trib rapture doctrine is PROOF of this)and then the anti christ will be revealed and then (AND ONLY THEN)the rapture can take place, not before. This passage excludes the pretrib view because we know that the anti christ will not be revealed before the tribulation starts but AFTER!!!. Further more it proves the post trib view because it declares that the second coming and the rapture take place on the same day. These two events are not seven years apart, not three and a half years apart, not one year, one month or one day apart. They occur on the same exact day.
 

1st John 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

When does Christ appear? At his post trib second coming. When shall we be like him? When we receive our heavenly bodies, which is at the resurrection of the just and or the rapture. So this verse actually says that we will be resurrected and or raptured to receive our heavenly immortal bodies at the post trib second coming. 
I think the scriptural evidence of a post trib rapture that I have presented so far is overwhelming.

BUT THERE IS MUCH MUCH MORE!!!!

Real quickly I will give three verses that state that we must endure until the very end to be saved.
Matthew 24:12-13, Mark 13:13, and Revelation 2:26.
Matthew 24:12-13
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Mark 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Both of these passages say he that endures unto the end, shall be saved. Some teach that this means you must keep your faith until your death to get to heaven. Actually if you will notice, both of these passage are in chapters that are specifically explaining the events of the tribulation. ITS ALL ABOUT CONTEXT!!!!!!!

In Matthew it says that iniquity will abound.

In Mark it says we will be hated by all men for Christ's name sake.

What these verse are telling us is that only those that do not turn from Christ during the tribulation will be saved. Those of us that endure until the very in shall be saved.

Revelation 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keeps my works until the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

It is only those that keep God's holy word until the very end that will reign with Christ during the Millennium. We must endure until the end show....let me show you want the end is.

1st Thessalonians 3:13 To the end he may stabblish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

Notice when the end is, when Jesus returns.

Also notice that it says Jesus will return with all His saints. This is impossible with a pretrib view.

If Jesus raptures the righteous before the tribulation then return at the end of it with the raptured saints. The tribulational converts and ''Jewish saints'' would not be with Him.

Therefore He would not be returning with all His saints.

Although if He catches us up the righteous as he is returning with the dead in Christ as it say He will in 1st Thessalonians 4:14-17, to meet Him in the air, then come to earth with Him. He would be returning with all His saints.
1st Thessalonians 4:14-17

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them that sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend with a shout, with the voice of an arch angel, and with the trump of God: and the dead will rise first:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall ever be with the Lord.

Verse 14 says that the dead in Christ are returning from heaven with Christ, and in verse 16 we see as He is returning their bodied rise from the grave to meet their souls, we know from 1st Corinthians 15:51-53 that this is when they receive their immortal bodies.

Then we which are alive and remain are caught up to meet them in the air. The post trib view is the only view that would allow 1st Thessalonians 3:13 to be true (which we know it is because it is the word of God) after we are caught up, we immediately return from the air to earth with Christ. Then and only then would He be returning will all His saints.

We will be raised at the last day John 6:39, 40, 44, and 54
John 6:39, 40, 44 , and 54

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should loose nothing, but raise it up at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

54 Whosoever eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
Jesus repeatedly declares that He will raise us up at the last day. Not seven years before, not three and a half years before, not one year, one month , or one day before, but at the LAST DAY. 
At the last trump,

1st Corinthians 15:51-53

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,52 In a moment, in a twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

It is universally understood that this is referring to the event known as the rapture. We see in the passage that it tell us when it will happen ''at the last trump''. We also see in Matthew 24:29-31 that there will be a trumpet sounded after the tribulation has ended.Matthew 24:29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.

If the rapture is at the last trump, which we know it is because God's word says it does. Then the rapture can not be before the trumpet sounded in Matthew 24, which is sounded after the tribulation is over.

Next I will show two more things #1 that the wicked are destroyed by fire at the post trib 2nd coming of Christ, and #2 that the rapture is on the same day that Christ return at the end of the Tribulation to destroy the wicked.

#1 The destruction of the wicked by fire at the post trib 2nd coming.
Matthew 3:7-12
7 But when he ( John the Baptist) saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
9 And think not to say within yourselves, we have Abraham as our father: for I say unto you that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
10 And now also the ax is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree that brings forth not good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire
11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he will baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire.12 Whose fan is in his hand, he shall throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into his garner, but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

There is only three times in the New Testament that the phrase ''wrath to come'' is mentioned.
Once in 1st Thessalonians 1:10,
once here in Matthew 3:7
and in Luke 3:7
which is telling the same story about John the Baptist warning the masses of the wrath that is to come. So what is the ''wrath to come'' that he was warning them from? It is the purging of the floor mentioned in verse 12. It is the baptism of fire when the wicked will be overwhelmed by fire at the return of Jesus, it is the burning of the chaff which will occur when Jesus returns at the post trib second coming. The wrath to come that Jesus has delivered us from by his death and resurrection, is the destruction of the wicked by fire at the second coming of Christ.
1st Thessalonians 5:2-3
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
The destruction of the wicked is not a prolonged seven years period, but it is sudden destruction that will come upon them when Jesus returns at the post trib second coming. 
2nd Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the Spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming.

When Jesus returns He is coming in power and great glory, the tribes of the earth shall mourn and every one that is not in Christ including the anti christ will be destroyed immediately by the brightness of His coming. 
Hebrews 10:26-27
26 For if we willfully sin after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation that shall devour the adversaries.
The wrath to come is the judgment of God were He will destroy all His adversaries with a fiery indignation, when Jesus returns, not the entire tribulation period.
 
2nd Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burnt up.
This doesn't sound like a pretrib event, there wouldn't be anything left to live on earth for the next seven years.

The day of the Lord is a post tribulational event. Where Jesus will destroy all with fire, but first he will resurrect the dead in Christ and catch away the living saints. 

I have shown that the wrath is the fiery destruction of the wicked which occurs at the return of Christ. It is not the tribulation period itself. Next, I will give scripture that shows that the second coming, the resurrection of the just, the rapture of the living saints and the destruction of the wicked by fire happen all at once.

#2 The rapture is at the post rib 2nd coming on the same day Christ return to destroy the wicked.
Pretrib ''Theologians'' boldly proclaim that when ever the second coming is mentioned, there is no mention of the church being raptured, and when ever the rapture is mentioned there is no mention of the destruction of the wicked. Well, I have four passages of scripture that will eliminate that myth once and for all. The first text I will use is Matthew 3:12, I will revisit the words of John the baptist.

Matthew 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, he shall throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into his garner, but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Notice that when Jesus comes to purge His floor, He first gathers the wheat and then burns the chaff. This is what will occur at the second coming. When Jesus returns at the end of the tribulation, He will resurrect the just, rapture the saints, and then burn the wicked with an unquenchable fire. 

Matthew 24:37-41
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving into marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came and took them all away, so shall the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field one taken, and the other left.
41 Two woman shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken and the other left.
The flood came and took them away when they were unaware, so will the coming of Christ be, but this next flood will be a flood of fire. At this point, at the post trib second coming when Jesus is returning to destroy the wicked is when the rapture takes place. Verse 40 and 41 declare THEN will one be taken and the other left, not before the return of Christ, but at it.
 
Luke 17:26-30
26 And as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, and they were given into marriage, until Noah entered into the ark then the flood came and destroyed them all.
The very day Noah entered the ark the flood came and destroyed them all, once again it was not a seven year prolonged period of destruction but it was immediate, the very day the righteous were removed.28

Likewise also as it was in the day of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But THE SAME DAY that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone down from heaven and destroyed them all.30 Even thus shall it be in the day the Son of man shall be revealed.
It very clear the SAME DAY Noah went on the ark the flood came and destroyed them all. The SAME DAY Lot was taken, out of Sodom fire and brimstone rain from heaven and destroyed them all. The text says this is exactly how it will be when Jesus returns. The very SAME DAY Jesus returns at His post trib second coming is the very SAME DAY we will be taken out or '' raptured '' and it is the very SAME DAY He will destroy the wicked. This will be confirmed in my next text 2nd Thessalonins 1:6-10 as well.
 
2nd Thessalonians 1:6-10
6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation on them that trouble you;
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe ( because our testimony among you was believed ) in that day.

We receive our rest when Jesus is revealed with his mighty angels in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God. In other words we are raptured at the post trib second coming when Jesus returns to destroy the wicked with fire. Lets look at verse 7 and 8 again.
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

There is no question that this passage places the post trib second coming, the rapture of the saints, and the destruction of the wicked all at the very same time. The pretib ''Theologian'' that claims the Bible never says as much, must of missed this passage. We cannot ignore God's word, so I choose to ignore the pretrib ''Theologian''.

Lastly I will give a reference in Revelation 20:4-6 that tells us that the raptre is after the Tribulation (remember the resurrection of the just comes before rapture of the living saints). In Revelation 20:4-6 it shows us the the 1st resurrection the resurrection of the just is after the Tribulation because it include those that were martyred during the Tribulation.
Revelation 20:4-6
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands,; and they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousands years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The first resurrection is after the tribulation, we know this because it includes the tribulational martyrs. There can be no resurrection before the first resurrection, therefore there can not be a mass resurrection of the dead in Christ before the tribulation. Seeing that the first resurrection takes place at the end of the tribulation, the pretrib rapture along with the mid trib, and pre wrath rapture become biblically impossible.

The only view that fits is that of a post trib rapture. The first resurrection is the resurrection of the just and the rapture immediately proceeds it.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 816455

Now THIS is TOTALLY UNDEBUNKABLE!!

I have changed my viewpoint. Thank you whoever you are. I cannot believe I believed a lie for so long.

Now I understand why Jesus said there would be a GREAT falling away.

I challenge all of you to read ALL of this and NOT draw the same conclusion.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 821673
Israel
11/18/2009 04:33 PM
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Re: The RAPTURE is COMING! Get in the Ark NOW while you can!!!
"Peace and Safety"

"Peace and Safety"

"Peace and Safety"

and sudden destruction overtakes them ...

As in the days of Noah ...

WATCH and PRAY and PREPARE!

God Bless!!!

Where and who is saying "Peace and Safety"????
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 821673

I ment, where are they saying it today that you would quote that quote in the bible?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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11/18/2009 04:38 PM
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Re: The RAPTURE is COMING! Get in the Ark NOW while you can!!!
Thread: Iran has officially rejected the UN nuclear deal

We have until this month and at the latest the end of December until the Israelies decide wether to carry out their warning.

I'm pretty sure they will since IRAN having nuclear weapons would threaten the very existance of the nation of Israel.

LESS THAN 2 MONTHS PEOPLE!!!

THIS IS IT!


The rapture will not happen prior to the tribulation. It occurs at the 7th trumpet.

Tribulation and God's wrath are not one and the same. The church is appointed tribulation, and we will be here for it. However we are not appointed God's wrath.

Therefore, we will be around for the seals and trumpets but not subject to the bowl of wrath judgments.

The tares are reaped first, THEN the wheat is gathered.



The 7th trumpet which is blown is a trumpet of an angel.

The TRUMPET OF GOD is the trumpet that calls the believers in the "catching-away" event which most Christians refer to as the RAPTURE.

The 7 seals, 7 trumpets and 7 bowls ARE ALL GOD'S JUDGEMENT, for they are being carried about by HIM OPENING UP THE SEALS, the LAMB WHO IS FOUND WORTHY, as John the Apostile describes in his vision.

so yes ALL OF THE TRIBULATIONS IS GOD's JUDGEMENT, because ALL OF THE TRIBULATIONS start with Jesus opening the seals in the first place. It is HE that is causing it to happen.

So no Jesus Christ who LIVES IN US will spare us ALL OF IT.

God Bless!!!


No, the church is one of the two witnesses and will not be removed.

Do a study on the two witnesses and compare their fate with that of the saints.

Learn who the candlesticks and olive trees are.

Jesus spares us from the second death, not from persecution and tribulation, which is our lot.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 718974


I honestly do not understand how you come up with the CHURCH as being one of the 2 witnesses who fight against Satain Revelations?

The CHURCH Body is millions STRONG. In Revelations the 2 witnesses are ACTUALLY 2 PEOPLE that WITNESSES AGAINST THE WORLD. That is why Satan is allowed to war with them at the end of their time of preaching and kill them and they lie in the streets dead for 3 days.

Er...no the Church is NOT one of these 2 witnesses. I don't think even the mid-tribbers or post-tribbers will go that far away from the Word of God to actually even give this thought merit?

The 2 witnesses are as the BIBLE says. 2 witnesses. They are described or hinted or guesses at to be maybe Elijah or Moses or Enoch that comes back. But never have I heard 1 of them being the Church which honestly and bluntly is a lie.

Since this point that you profess is troubling and so far beyond the understanding that most Christians have of this scripture, then one wonders where the rest of your "beliefs" stem from?


God Bless.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 641257
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11/18/2009 04:40 PM
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Re: The RAPTURE is COMING! Get in the Ark NOW while you can!!!
"Peace and Safety"

"Peace and Safety"

"Peace and Safety"

and sudden destruction overtakes them ...

As in the days of Noah ...

WATCH and PRAY and PREPARE!

God Bless!!!

Where and who is saying "Peace and Safety"????
I ment, where are they saying it today that you would quote that quote in the bible?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 821673



Read the links or did you even look at them? The UNITED NATIONS CHARTER is built on it.

Obama has been repeating this line almost every chance he gets to speak (and thats pretty often), one wonders if he is actually the false prophet of the Anti-Christ or will be?

...
Left Behind
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11/18/2009 04:49 PM
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I will agree with you OP, the time is fast approaching, I have known this since I was a child.

The initial reaction is to prepare with the hope that you may be included in the 144k. Personally, and after much thought, I pray that I will be left behind to assist others in the tribulation and greet the coming King with joy and adulation.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 819787
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11/18/2009 04:56 PM
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Re: The RAPTURE is COMING! Get in the Ark NOW while you can!!!
News Flash: The CHURCH has apparently written itself into an event that it may not actually be apart of.

The TRUE CHURCH is the body of THE MAN, AKA the WIFE. And she is as real as the ONE you await. The TWO Witness are the Daughters of WIFE...What this means for you as inviduals: she is the Mother of all Living....And she is inside of you...thus there is no need for you to get inside of anything.

So if by Church you mean...a building or something you attend on Sunday or Daily or Something in Rome...you really need to check yourself out...I don't see that the Church, the institution with all the guys with costumes is necessarily gonna make it.

I am just saying. Check yourselves out.
Anonymous Coward
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11/18/2009 04:57 PM
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Oh yeah...the Rapture occured 4 years ago...if it hadn't...you'd all be dead by now and wouldn't be having this conversation anyway.
Anonymous Coward
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11/18/2009 05:29 PM
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Re: The RAPTURE is COMING! Get in the Ark NOW while you can!!!
Thread: Iran has officially rejected the UN nuclear deal

We have until this month and at the latest the end of December until the Israelies decide wether to carry out their warning.

I'm pretty sure they will since IRAN having nuclear weapons would threaten the very existance of the nation of Israel.

LESS THAN 2 MONTHS PEOPLE!!!

THIS IS IT!


The rapture will not happen prior to the tribulation. It occurs at the 7th trumpet.

Tribulation and God's wrath are not one and the same. The church is appointed tribulation, and we will be here for it. However we are not appointed God's wrath.

Therefore, we will be around for the seals and trumpets but not subject to the bowl of wrath judgments.

The tares are reaped first, THEN the wheat is gathered.



The 7th trumpet which is blown is a trumpet of an angel.

The TRUMPET OF GOD is the trumpet that calls the believers in the "catching-away" event which most Christians refer to as the RAPTURE.

The 7 seals, 7 trumpets and 7 bowls ARE ALL GOD'S JUDGEMENT, for they are being carried about by HIM OPENING UP THE SEALS, the LAMB WHO IS FOUND WORTHY, as John the Apostile describes in his vision.

so yes ALL OF THE TRIBULATIONS IS GOD's JUDGEMENT, because ALL OF THE TRIBULATIONS start with Jesus opening the seals in the first place. It is HE that is causing it to happen.

So no Jesus Christ who LIVES IN US will spare us ALL OF IT.

God Bless!!!


No, the church is one of the two witnesses and will not be removed.

Do a study on the two witnesses and compare their fate with that of the saints.

Learn who the candlesticks and olive trees are.

Jesus spares us from the second death, not from persecution and tribulation, which is our lot.


I honestly do not understand how you come up with the CHURCH as being one of the 2 witnesses who fight against Satain Revelations?

The CHURCH Body is millions STRONG. In Revelations the 2 witnesses are ACTUALLY 2 PEOPLE that WITNESSES AGAINST THE WORLD. That is why Satan is allowed to war with them at the end of their time of preaching and kill them and they lie in the streets dead for 3 days.

Er...no the Church is NOT one of these 2 witnesses. I don't think even the mid-tribbers or post-tribbers will go that far away from the Word of God to actually even give this thought merit?

The 2 witnesses are as the BIBLE says. 2 witnesses. They are described or hinted or guesses at to be maybe Elijah or Moses or Enoch that comes back. But never have I heard 1 of them being the Church which honestly and bluntly is a lie.

Since this point that you profess is troubling and so far beyond the understanding that most Christians have of this scripture, then one wonders where the rest of your "beliefs" stem from?


God Bless.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 641257


No, the two witnesses are not two people.

Rev. 11:4 tells you who they are:

These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

They are two olive trees and two candlesticks.

Learn who the candlesticks and olive trees are.

And they are not dead for 3 and a half days; they are dead for 3 and a half years. A day = a year. (I have appointed thee each day for a year. )

The Book of Revelation must be read under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and you must bear in mind that symbolism is being used.

God's Law does not allow a man to be condemned to death on the word of one witness; there must be at least two. Likewise, God will not condemn the world without two witnesses testifying against it as well. These will not be two literal people. The two witnesses are symbolic of two groups of people.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 641257
United States
11/18/2009 06:23 PM
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Re: The RAPTURE is COMING! Get in the Ark NOW while you can!!!
Thread: Iran has officially rejected the UN nuclear deal

We have until this month and at the latest the end of December until the Israelies decide wether to carry out their warning.

I'm pretty sure they will since IRAN having nuclear weapons would threaten the very existance of the nation of Israel.

LESS THAN 2 MONTHS PEOPLE!!!

THIS IS IT!


The rapture will not happen prior to the tribulation. It occurs at the 7th trumpet.

Tribulation and God's wrath are not one and the same. The church is appointed tribulation, and we will be here for it. However we are not appointed God's wrath.

Therefore, we will be around for the seals and trumpets but not subject to the bowl of wrath judgments.

The tares are reaped first, THEN the wheat is gathered.



The 7th trumpet which is blown is a trumpet of an angel.

The TRUMPET OF GOD is the trumpet that calls the believers in the "catching-away" event which most Christians refer to as the RAPTURE.

The 7 seals, 7 trumpets and 7 bowls ARE ALL GOD'S JUDGEMENT, for they are being carried about by HIM OPENING UP THE SEALS, the LAMB WHO IS FOUND WORTHY, as John the Apostile describes in his vision.

so yes ALL OF THE TRIBULATIONS IS GOD's JUDGEMENT, because ALL OF THE TRIBULATIONS start with Jesus opening the seals in the first place. It is HE that is causing it to happen.

So no Jesus Christ who LIVES IN US will spare us ALL OF IT.

God Bless!!!


No, the church is one of the two witnesses and will not be removed.

Do a study on the two witnesses and compare their fate with that of the saints.

Learn who the candlesticks and olive trees are.

Jesus spares us from the second death, not from persecution and tribulation, which is our lot.


I honestly do not understand how you come up with the CHURCH as being one of the 2 witnesses who fight against Satain Revelations?

The CHURCH Body is millions STRONG. In Revelations the 2 witnesses are ACTUALLY 2 PEOPLE that WITNESSES AGAINST THE WORLD. That is why Satan is allowed to war with them at the end of their time of preaching and kill them and they lie in the streets dead for 3 days.

Er...no the Church is NOT one of these 2 witnesses. I don't think even the mid-tribbers or post-tribbers will go that far away from the Word of God to actually even give this thought merit?

The 2 witnesses are as the BIBLE says. 2 witnesses. They are described or hinted or guesses at to be maybe Elijah or Moses or Enoch that comes back. But never have I heard 1 of them being the Church which honestly and bluntly is a lie.

Since this point that you profess is troubling and so far beyond the understanding that most Christians have of this scripture, then one wonders where the rest of your "beliefs" stem from?


God Bless.


No, the two witnesses are not two people.

Rev. 11:4 tells you who they are:

These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

They are two olive trees and two candlesticks.

Learn who the candlesticks and olive trees are.

And they are not dead for 3 and a half days; they are dead for 3 and a half years. A day = a year. (I have appointed thee each day for a year. )

The Book of Revelation must be read under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and you must bear in mind that symbolism is being used.

God's Law does not allow a man to be condemned to death on the word of one witness; there must be at least two. Likewise, God will not condemn the world without two witnesses testifying against it as well. These will not be two literal people. The two witnesses are symbolic of two groups of people.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 718974



And one wonders why the apostasy in the church is so thick.

It is full of people like this who have the semblance of godliness but are rotten in their core, believing unto their own beliefs and not basing their beliefs on the Words of God that is written in the Bible.

I don't see how anyone could interpret the 2 witnesses in Revelations to mean that 1 of them is the church and there more millions of people in the church?

How can people be so blinded that they do not grasp the meaning of plain words in the Bible, especially when these verses have no symbolism to it?!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 725167
Australia
11/18/2009 06:45 PM
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Pre Trib rapture is a Lie,

No free pass for you.


Christians have gobled that camel whole and back it up with a couple of scriptures taken out of context.

ALL through out the bible it talks about the second comming of Christ, yet somehow a couple of versus taken out of context prove some fanciful notion of a pretrib rapture.



Heres one for you

Mat 24:29 KJV - Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Mat 24:30 KJV - And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Mat 24:31 KJV - And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.



There is no second chance thats a lie.

You will go through Tribulation Devils Wrath, and God will take hes church at the 6th seal.

Anyone left on Earth will face the wrath of God.


Research futurism and you'll find it came from the Catholic Church.
Thats why all the lil churches spawned from Mommy church believe it so easily.




Act 16:30 KJV - And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

Act 16:31 KJV - And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.


+nothing -nothing
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 718974
Panama
11/18/2009 07:09 PM
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Re: The RAPTURE is COMING! Get in the Ark NOW while you can!!!
Thread: Iran has officially rejected the UN nuclear deal

We have until this month and at the latest the end of December until the Israelies decide wether to carry out their warning.

I'm pretty sure they will since IRAN having nuclear weapons would threaten the very existance of the nation of Israel.

LESS THAN 2 MONTHS PEOPLE!!!

THIS IS IT!


The rapture will not happen prior to the tribulation. It occurs at the 7th trumpet.

Tribulation and God's wrath are not one and the same. The church is appointed tribulation, and we will be here for it. However we are not appointed God's wrath.

Therefore, we will be around for the seals and trumpets but not subject to the bowl of wrath judgments.

The tares are reaped first, THEN the wheat is gathered.



The 7th trumpet which is blown is a trumpet of an angel.

The TRUMPET OF GOD is the trumpet that calls the believers in the "catching-away" event which most Christians refer to as the RAPTURE.

The 7 seals, 7 trumpets and 7 bowls ARE ALL GOD'S JUDGEMENT, for they are being carried about by HIM OPENING UP THE SEALS, the LAMB WHO IS FOUND WORTHY, as John the Apostile describes in his vision.

so yes ALL OF THE TRIBULATIONS IS GOD's JUDGEMENT, because ALL OF THE TRIBULATIONS start with Jesus opening the seals in the first place. It is HE that is causing it to happen.

So no Jesus Christ who LIVES IN US will spare us ALL OF IT.

God Bless!!!


No, the church is one of the two witnesses and will not be removed.

Do a study on the two witnesses and compare their fate with that of the saints.

Learn who the candlesticks and olive trees are.

Jesus spares us from the second death, not from persecution and tribulation, which is our lot.


I honestly do not understand how you come up with the CHURCH as being one of the 2 witnesses who fight against Satain Revelations?

The CHURCH Body is millions STRONG. In Revelations the 2 witnesses are ACTUALLY 2 PEOPLE that WITNESSES AGAINST THE WORLD. That is why Satan is allowed to war with them at the end of their time of preaching and kill them and they lie in the streets dead for 3 days.

Er...no the Church is NOT one of these 2 witnesses. I don't think even the mid-tribbers or post-tribbers will go that far away from the Word of God to actually even give this thought merit?

The 2 witnesses are as the BIBLE says. 2 witnesses. They are described or hinted or guesses at to be maybe Elijah or Moses or Enoch that comes back. But never have I heard 1 of them being the Church which honestly and bluntly is a lie.

Since this point that you profess is troubling and so far beyond the understanding that most Christians have of this scripture, then one wonders where the rest of your "beliefs" stem from?


God Bless.


No, the two witnesses are not two people.

Rev. 11:4 tells you who they are:

These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

They are two olive trees and two candlesticks.

Learn who the candlesticks and olive trees are.

And they are not dead for 3 and a half days; they are dead for 3 and a half years. A day = a year. (I have appointed thee each day for a year. )

The Book of Revelation must be read under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, and you must bear in mind that symbolism is being used.

God's Law does not allow a man to be condemned to death on the word of one witness; there must be at least two. Likewise, God will not condemn the world without two witnesses testifying against it as well. These will not be two literal people. The two witnesses are symbolic of two groups of people.



And one wonders why the apostasy in the church is so thick.

It is full of people like this who have the semblance of godliness but are rotten in their core, believing unto their own beliefs and not basing their beliefs on the Words of God that is written in the Bible.

I don't see how anyone could interpret the 2 witnesses in Revelations to mean that 1 of them is the church and there more millions of people in the church?

How can people be so blinded that they do not grasp the meaning of plain words in the Bible, especially when these verses have no symbolism to it?!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 641257


You need to be very careful of what you say. Do not call me an apostate, when you have clearly not studied the scriptures. Stop being spoonfed by others and start reading the Word for yourself.

I will leave you with one pearl of wisdom: The majority is always wrong.

If a huge multitude believes it, then it is a doctrine that needs to be seriously re-thought. The pre-trib rapture doctrine falls under that category.

Do you know how new the pre-trib rapture doctrine is? It did not even exist until 1830.

The early church did not believe in a pre-trib rapture. They were beaten, scourged, tortured, fed to lions, burned alive, and crucified, and they never once thought they would get an easy way out.

It is modern, spoiled rotten, so-called Christians who think God will float them away on a cloud before allowing them to so much as break a fingernail.

Get over yourself. God is not going to play favorites and give you an easy ride that the early church and His own son never got. Or do you think the servant should expect to be treated better than the master?

We will be here for the tribulation. Christ is coming back for a spotless church that has been refined in the fire. That fire is the tribulation.
Anonymous Coward
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11/18/2009 07:25 PM
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Re: The RAPTURE is COMING! Get in the Ark NOW while you can!!!
applause2 for Truth.

You need to be very careful of what you say. Do not call me an apostate, when you have clearly not studied the scriptures. Stop being spoonfed by others and start reading the Word for yourself.

I will leave you with one pearl of wisdom: The majority is always wrong.

If a huge multitude believes it, then it is a doctrine that needs to be seriously re-thought. The pre-trib rapture doctrine falls under that category.

Do you know how new the pre-trib rapture doctrine is? It did not even exist until 1830.

The early church did not believe in a pre-trib rapture. They were beaten, scourged, tortured, fed to lions, burned alive, and crucified, and they never once thought they would get an easy way out.

It is modern, spoiled rotten, so-called Christians who think God will float them away on a cloud before allowing them to so much as break a fingernail.

Get over yourself. God is not going to play favorites and give you an easy ride that the early church and His own son never got. Or do you think the servant should expect to be treated better than the master?

We will be here for the tribulation. Christ is coming back for a spotless church that has been refined in the fire. That fire is the tribulation.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 718974
the only thing i know is that
User ID: 821824
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11/18/2009 07:34 PM
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Re: The RAPTURE is COMING! Get in the Ark NOW while you can!!!
Jesus Christ is the ARK! Believe unto Him and you shall be saved!

Believe in Jesus Christ and accept Him today into your life.

God Bless!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 641257


i think what Jesus said was to believe in God ON Him (Jesus),
not IN him, as in deity. although He was God incarnate, He did
not want us to worship the flesh. most of His true teachings were spoken in parables, meaning that they had a spiritual meaning for everyone, as well as a literal meaning for the people who were living during those times. acknowledge who Jesus was, but do not forget the Creator, or God. Jesus' death was the devil's price of our sins, (not satan, he is still on God's side, just in disagreement. other devils are the spirits of our ancestors who grow in power with our thoughts as well as strength of their own. they are capable of communicating and influencing those who are able to see/hear them. Some of the older spirits are what you would call demons; able to posess, throw things around, etc...) and those devils who would think themselves gods (such as the illuminati, true free masons, and others) love nothing more than to have people worshipping their incarnate God dying on a cross (ie., false idol as well as a graven image). But all will be forgiven as long as your heart is pure and in the right place, as well as not having the tendency to always think about yourself. Jesus said the ONLY sin that would not be forgivable was to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. anything else is irrilevant. be not decieved, for only spirits bring visions and prophecies. those who wish to know have simply to ask, and they will be answered. not by a spirit, but they will simply know, as that is the spirit of God. tempt not thy God.





GLP