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9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE FLIGHT DECK DOOR CLOSED FOR ENTIRE FLIGHT

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 715509
United States
11/29/2009 01:40 PM
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Re: 9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE FLIGHT DECK DOOR CLOSED FOR ENTIRE FLIGHT
One would really have to know exactly how the door was constructed to come to the conclusion that the hijackers did not have access to the cockpit.

Where were the sensors located on the door?

It could be possible that the door was broken in such a way that the sensors were left intact.

There is also the possibility that particular system was not working properly. Before 911 maintenance on that particular system might not have been a priority.

But as this fits your agenda of course you will state it as a "given".

And that is my problem with most so called "truthers".

To look at only what they think tells the story and not a thorough look at clues, only what fits their agenda. And that was basically to say anything bad possible and quite a few things made up about an administration they had a profound and open hatred for even before they took office.

So,

you would have to show me a lot more than one friggen door sensor to say the hijackers did not have access to the cockpit.

For one you would have to examine all maintenance records for that aircraft and any pilot comments made on aircraft defects.

Another is that the door COULD NOT be broken in such a way as to NOT make the sensor show the door was open.
 Quoting: G. House

By the same token GH, you cannot evne prove by your own stated methods that there were even any hi-jackers in the cockpit, can you? You were not there, and neither was I. we did not see all there was to see and hear either.

I am not convinced there ever were any hijackers.

The FBI stated that they were aware that the 'id's were fake, but have never bothered to tell anyone who the real alleged hijackers' ids were... they just let all thos arabic names dangle out their, after stating they knew the passports were fake ids.

In truth, the perfect conspiarcy has been pulled off, just as one was in the JFK assassination. A majority would never believe the truth, whatever it is now.
G. House

User ID: 829734
United States
11/29/2009 01:51 PM

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Re: 9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE FLIGHT DECK DOOR CLOSED FOR ENTIRE FLIGHT
By the same token GH, you cannot evne prove by your own stated methods that there were even any hi-jackers in the cockpit, can you? You were not there, and neither was I. we did not see all there was to see and hear either.

I am not convinced there ever were any hijackers.

The FBI stated that they were aware that the 'id's were fake, but have never bothered to tell anyone who the real alleged hijackers' ids were... they just let all thos arabic names dangle out their, after stating they knew the passports were fake ids.

In truth, the perfect conspiarcy has been pulled off, just as one was in the JFK assassination. A majority would never believe the truth, whatever it is now.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 715509


Let's just keep to the topic shall we?

The flight recorder actually had 42 flight hours in it.

None of the flight time EVER showed the door open during flight.

But more importantly.

The flight recorder system was manufactured in 1997 so it was an update for this particular recorder system.

The aircraft was built in 1991 and did not actually have a door sensor.

The FDR shows 0's for the flight door because it was an unused block.

Your thread topic has just been debunked.

Sorry.
"Everybody lies."
pud

User ID: 820655
United States
11/29/2009 01:55 PM
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Re: 9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE FLIGHT DECK DOOR CLOSED FOR ENTIRE FLIGHT
By the same token GH, you cannot evne prove by your own stated methods that there were even any hi-jackers in the cockpit, can you? You were not there, and neither was I. we did not see all there was to see and hear either.

I am not convinced there ever were any hijackers.

The FBI stated that they were aware that the 'id's were fake, but have never bothered to tell anyone who the real alleged hijackers' ids were... they just let all thos arabic names dangle out their, after stating they knew the passports were fake ids.

In truth, the perfect conspiarcy has been pulled off, just as one was in the JFK assassination. A majority would never believe the truth, whatever it is now.


Let's just keep to the topic shall we?

The flight recorder actually had 42 flight hours in it.

None of the flight time EVER showed the door open during flight.

But more importantly.

The flight recorder system was manufactured in 1997 so it was an update for this particular recorder system.

The aircraft was built in 1991 and did not actually have a door sensor.

The FDR shows 0's for the flight door because it was an unused block.

Your thread topic has just been debunked.

Sorry.
 Quoting: G. House

Having fun jumping around 9/11 threads, until someone poses a question you can't answer?

hi
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Anonymous Coward
User ID: 829898
Croatia
11/29/2009 04:04 PM
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Re: 9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE FLIGHT DECK DOOR CLOSED FOR ENTIRE FLIGHT
But more importantly.

The flight recorder system was manufactured in 1997 so it was an update for this particular recorder system.

The aircraft was built in 1991 and did not actually have a door sensor.

The FDR shows 0's for the flight door because it was an unused block.

Your thread topic has just been debunked.

Sorry.
 Quoting: G. House


you didn't debunk anything, you just showed how little you know, this is from pilots for the truth forum:


"The FLT DECK OPEN parameter was not added to the FDR frame (757-3 A2) until 1997. The plane was manufactured in 1991 using an earler frame structure which did not include the parameter, so a binary 0 for an unused data block."



This claim is wrong because actually all the FDR system has been updated before 08/18/2001...

According to [link to www.boeing.com]

Airplanes manufactured before October 11, 1991, without an FDAU or DFDAU as of July 16, 1996.
Airplanes manufactured before October 11, 1991, with an FDAU or DFDAU as of July 16, 1996.
Airplanes manufactured after October 11, 1991, after August 18, 2000, and after August 18, 2002.

AIRPLANES MANUFACTURED PRIOR TO OCTOBER 11, 1991, WITHOUT AN FDAU OR DFDAU INSTALLED AS OF JULY 16, 1996.
The new rule requires that by August 18, 2001 the FDR record at least 18 parameter groups. For most airplanes, this is an increase from 11 parameter groups, as described in "Effects of 1989 FAA Flight Data Recorder Rule Change" on page 32.

The new rule requires that by four years from date of rule at least 22 parameter groups be recorded by the FDR. In this group are Boeing models 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, DC-10, and MD-80.

Flight 77 = N644AA 2460

Certificate Issue Date 05/08/1991

[link to registry.faa.gov]

N644AA = AIRPLANES MANUFACTURED PRIOR TO OCTOBER 11, 1991

So N644AA has been updated before August 18, 2001


bushfing
G. House

User ID: 620502
United States
11/29/2009 07:35 PM

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Re: 9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE FLIGHT DECK DOOR CLOSED FOR ENTIRE FLIGHT
But more importantly.

The flight recorder system was manufactured in 1997 so it was an update for this particular recorder system.

The aircraft was built in 1991 and did not actually have a door sensor.

The FDR shows 0's for the flight door because it was an unused block.

Your thread topic has just been debunked.

Sorry.


you didn't debunk anything, you just showed how little you know, this is from pilots for the truth forum:


"The FLT DECK OPEN parameter was not added to the FDR frame (757-3 A2) until 1997. The plane was manufactured in 1991 using an earler frame structure which did not include the parameter, so a binary 0 for an unused data block."



This claim is wrong because actually all the FDR system has been updated before 08/18/2001...

According to [link to www.boeing.com]

Airplanes manufactured before October 11, 1991, without an FDAU or DFDAU as of July 16, 1996.
Airplanes manufactured before October 11, 1991, with an FDAU or DFDAU as of July 16, 1996.
Airplanes manufactured after October 11, 1991, after August 18, 2000, and after August 18, 2002.

AIRPLANES MANUFACTURED PRIOR TO OCTOBER 11, 1991, WITHOUT AN FDAU OR DFDAU INSTALLED AS OF JULY 16, 1996.
The new rule requires that by August 18, 2001 the FDR record at least 18 parameter groups. For most airplanes, this is an increase from 11 parameter groups, as described in "Effects of 1989 FAA Flight Data Recorder Rule Change" on page 32.

The new rule requires that by four years from date of rule at least 22 parameter groups be recorded by the FDR. In this group are Boeing models 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, DC-10, and MD-80.

Flight 77 = N644AA 2460

Certificate Issue Date 05/08/1991

[link to registry.faa.gov]

N644AA = AIRPLANES MANUFACTURED PRIOR TO OCTOBER 11, 1991

So N644AA has been updated before August 18, 2001


bushfing
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 829898


Not so fast:

The aircraft was manufactured before October 11 1991.

The rule for these aircraft is:

AIRPLANES MANUFACTURED PRIOR TO OCTOBER 11, 1991, WITHOUT AN FDAU OR DFDAU INSTALLED AS OF JULY 16, 1996.
The new rule requires that by August 18, 2001 the FDR record at least 18 parameter groups. For most airplanes, this is an increase from 11 parameter groups, as described in "Effects of 1989 FAA Flight Data Recorder Rule Change" on page 32. On about half of all the Boeing 727, 737, DC-8, and DC-9 models the FDR system uses a single FDR, a result of the late 1980s replacement activity. Most of these FDRs should have enough spare inputs to accommodate the increased requirements with little or no modification required. Other parameter groups required to be recorded include the addition of both flight control surface positions and flight control inputs for all three axes (lateral, directional, longitudinal), lateral acceleration, and autopilot engagement status. Airplanes manufactured prior to October 11, 1991, with a FDAU or DFDAU installed as of July 16, 1996. The new rule requires that by four years from date of rule at least 22 parameter groups be recorded by the FDR. In this group are Boeing models 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, DC-10, and MD-80. Most of these airplanes record almost all the 22 parameter groups, some of which operators may ask Boeing to remove to save weight or to avoid maintenance costs if a parameter group is not required by a particular country's regulatory agency. The additional parameter groups required to be recorded include the addition of flight control surface positions and flight control inputs for all three axes, lateral acceleration, and autopilot engagement status.


Let me repeat this:

The new rule requires that by August 18, 2001 the FDR record at least 18 parameter groups.

If you read the rest of it you will glean that later aircraft will require 34, 57, or 88 parameter groups to be recorded.

The door sensor is not required on the earlier aircraft but they COULD have a flight recorder installed that had the capacity for more parameters, but they were unused blocks.

Or possibly it might have had to record 22 parameters, but that is still much less than the 34, 55, or 88 parameter capable recorders.

Feel free to provide a list of EXACTLY what the required 22 parameters were.

Last Edited by G. House on 11/29/2009 07:58 PM
"Everybody lies."
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 688990
United Kingdom
11/30/2009 10:05 AM
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Re: 9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE FLIGHT DECK DOOR CLOSED FOR ENTIRE FLIGHT
But more importantly.

The flight recorder system was manufactured in 1997 so it was an update for this particular recorder system.

The aircraft was built in 1991 and did not actually have a door sensor.

The FDR shows 0's for the flight door because it was an unused block.

Your thread topic has just been debunked.

Sorry.


you didn't debunk anything, you just showed how little you know, this is from pilots for the truth forum:


"The FLT DECK OPEN parameter was not added to the FDR frame (757-3 A2) until 1997. The plane was manufactured in 1991 using an earler frame structure which did not include the parameter, so a binary 0 for an unused data block."



This claim is wrong because actually all the FDR system has been updated before 08/18/2001...

According to [link to www.boeing.com]

Airplanes manufactured before October 11, 1991, without an FDAU or DFDAU as of July 16, 1996.
Airplanes manufactured before October 11, 1991, with an FDAU or DFDAU as of July 16, 1996.
Airplanes manufactured after October 11, 1991, after August 18, 2000, and after August 18, 2002.

AIRPLANES MANUFACTURED PRIOR TO OCTOBER 11, 1991, WITHOUT AN FDAU OR DFDAU INSTALLED AS OF JULY 16, 1996.
The new rule requires that by August 18, 2001 the FDR record at least 18 parameter groups. For most airplanes, this is an increase from 11 parameter groups, as described in "Effects of 1989 FAA Flight Data Recorder Rule Change" on page 32.

The new rule requires that by four years from date of rule at least 22 parameter groups be recorded by the FDR. In this group are Boeing models 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, DC-10, and MD-80.

Flight 77 = N644AA 2460

Certificate Issue Date 05/08/1991

[link to registry.faa.gov]

N644AA = AIRPLANES MANUFACTURED PRIOR TO OCTOBER 11, 1991

So N644AA has been updated before August 18, 2001


bushfing


Not so fast:

The aircraft was manufactured before October 11 1991.

The rule for these aircraft is:

AIRPLANES MANUFACTURED PRIOR TO OCTOBER 11, 1991, WITHOUT AN FDAU OR DFDAU INSTALLED AS OF JULY 16, 1996.
The new rule requires that by August 18, 2001 the FDR record at least 18 parameter groups. For most airplanes, this is an increase from 11 parameter groups, as described in "Effects of 1989 FAA Flight Data Recorder Rule Change" on page 32. On about half of all the Boeing 727, 737, DC-8, and DC-9 models the FDR system uses a single FDR, a result of the late 1980s replacement activity. Most of these FDRs should have enough spare inputs to accommodate the increased requirements with little or no modification required. Other parameter groups required to be recorded include the addition of both flight control surface positions and flight control inputs for all three axes (lateral, directional, longitudinal), lateral acceleration, and autopilot engagement status. Airplanes manufactured prior to October 11, 1991, with a FDAU or DFDAU installed as of July 16, 1996. The new rule requires that by four years from date of rule at least 22 parameter groups be recorded by the FDR. In this group are Boeing models 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, DC-10, and MD-80. Most of these airplanes record almost all the 22 parameter groups, some of which operators may ask Boeing to remove to save weight or to avoid maintenance costs if a parameter group is not required by a particular country's regulatory agency. The additional parameter groups required to be recorded include the addition of flight control surface positions and flight control inputs for all three axes, lateral acceleration, and autopilot engagement status.


Let me repeat this:

The new rule requires that by August 18, 2001 the FDR record at least 18 parameter groups.

If you read the rest of it you will glean that later aircraft will require 34, 57, or 88 parameter groups to be recorded.

The door sensor is not required on the earlier aircraft but they COULD have a flight recorder installed that had the capacity for more parameters, but they were unused blocks.

Or possibly it might have had to record 22 parameters, but that is still much less than the 34, 55, or 88 parameter capable recorders.

Feel free to provide a list of EXACTLY what the required 22 parameters were.
 Quoting: G. House


Pilots for 911truth seem to have everything covered: [link to pilotsfor911truth.org]

If you disagree, maybe you could point your disagreements out to them?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 621262
United States
11/30/2009 10:32 AM
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Re: 9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE FLIGHT DECK DOOR CLOSED FOR ENTIRE FLIGHT
i cant believe its not getting the attention here that it is at so many other places.......


That's because this is a shill forum with moderators who are more interested in Muslim bashing than the Truth Movement.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 828032

and jew bashing. GLP = the government
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 621262
United States
11/30/2009 10:39 AM
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Re: 9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE FLIGHT DECK DOOR CLOSED FOR ENTIRE FLIGHT
But more importantly.

The flight recorder system was manufactured in 1997 so it was an update for this particular recorder system.

The aircraft was built in 1991 and did not actually have a door sensor.

The FDR shows 0's for the flight door because it was an unused block.

Your thread topic has just been debunked.

Sorry.


you didn't debunk anything, you just showed how little you know, this is from pilots for the truth forum:


"The FLT DECK OPEN parameter was not added to the FDR frame (757-3 A2) until 1997. The plane was manufactured in 1991 using an earler frame structure which did not include the parameter, so a binary 0 for an unused data block."



This claim is wrong because actually all the FDR system has been updated before 08/18/2001...

According to [link to www.boeing.com]

Airplanes manufactured before October 11, 1991, without an FDAU or DFDAU as of July 16, 1996.
Airplanes manufactured before October 11, 1991, with an FDAU or DFDAU as of July 16, 1996.
Airplanes manufactured after October 11, 1991, after August 18, 2000, and after August 18, 2002.

AIRPLANES MANUFACTURED PRIOR TO OCTOBER 11, 1991, WITHOUT AN FDAU OR DFDAU INSTALLED AS OF JULY 16, 1996.
The new rule requires that by August 18, 2001 the FDR record at least 18 parameter groups. For most airplanes, this is an increase from 11 parameter groups, as described in "Effects of 1989 FAA Flight Data Recorder Rule Change" on page 32.

The new rule requires that by four years from date of rule at least 22 parameter groups be recorded by the FDR. In this group are Boeing models 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, DC-10, and MD-80.

Flight 77 = N644AA 2460

Certificate Issue Date 05/08/1991

[link to registry.faa.gov]

N644AA = AIRPLANES MANUFACTURED PRIOR TO OCTOBER 11, 1991

So N644AA has been updated before August 18, 2001


bushfing


Not so fast:

The aircraft was manufactured before October 11 1991.

The rule for these aircraft is:

AIRPLANES MANUFACTURED PRIOR TO OCTOBER 11, 1991, WITHOUT AN FDAU OR DFDAU INSTALLED AS OF JULY 16, 1996.
The new rule requires that by August 18, 2001 the FDR record at least 18 parameter groups. For most airplanes, this is an increase from 11 parameter groups, as described in "Effects of 1989 FAA Flight Data Recorder Rule Change" on page 32. On about half of all the Boeing 727, 737, DC-8, and DC-9 models the FDR system uses a single FDR, a result of the late 1980s replacement activity. Most of these FDRs should have enough spare inputs to accommodate the increased requirements with little or no modification required. Other parameter groups required to be recorded include the addition of both flight control surface positions and flight control inputs for all three axes (lateral, directional, longitudinal), lateral acceleration, and autopilot engagement status. Airplanes manufactured prior to October 11, 1991, with a FDAU or DFDAU installed as of July 16, 1996. The new rule requires that by four years from date of rule at least 22 parameter groups be recorded by the FDR. In this group are Boeing models 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, DC-10, and MD-80. Most of these airplanes record almost all the 22 parameter groups, some of which operators may ask Boeing to remove to save weight or to avoid maintenance costs if a parameter group is not required by a particular country's regulatory agency. The additional parameter groups required to be recorded include the addition of flight control surface positions and flight control inputs for all three axes, lateral acceleration, and autopilot engagement status.


Let me repeat this:

The new rule requires that by August 18, 2001 the FDR record at least 18 parameter groups.

If you read the rest of it you will glean that later aircraft will require 34, 57, or 88 parameter groups to be recorded.

The door sensor is not required on the earlier aircraft but they COULD have a flight recorder installed that had the capacity for more parameters, but they were unused blocks.

Or possibly it might have had to record 22 parameters, but that is still much less than the 34, 55, or 88 parameter capable recorders.

Feel free to provide a list of EXACTLY what the required 22 parameters were.
 Quoting: G. House

shillhouse = traitor
G. House

User ID: 788589
United States
11/30/2009 04:31 PM

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Re: 9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE FLIGHT DECK DOOR CLOSED FOR ENTIRE FLIGHT
If you disagree, maybe you could point your disagreements out to them?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 688990


No need really.

Of the 22 parameters, the flight door is not one of them.

If YOU can prove otherwise please feel free to do so.

I mean YOU peole claim this as a given when it really isn't.
"Everybody lies."
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 688990
United Kingdom
11/30/2009 05:15 PM
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Re: 9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE FLIGHT DECK DOOR CLOSED FOR ENTIRE FLIGHT
If you disagree, maybe you could point your disagreements out to them?


No need really.

Of the 22 parameters, the flight door is not one of them.

If YOU can prove otherwise please feel free to do so.

I mean YOU peole claim this as a given when it really isn't.
 Quoting: G. House


This is their thread that debunks the debunkers on this subject [link to pilotsfor911truth.org]

Why don't you tell them you've just debunked them if you really think you have? Or maybe you hav'nt.
G. House

User ID: 830734
United States
11/30/2009 06:48 PM

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Re: 9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE FLIGHT DECK DOOR CLOSED FOR ENTIRE FLIGHT
If you disagree, maybe you could point your disagreements out to them?


No need really.

Of the 22 parameters, the flight door is not one of them.

If YOU can prove otherwise please feel free to do so.

I mean YOU peole claim this as a given when it really isn't.


This is their thread that debunks the debunkers on this subject [link to pilotsfor911truth.org]

Why don't you tell them you've just debunked them if you really think you have? Or maybe you hav'nt.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 688990


The point is that if it isn't one of the required 22 parameters then the entire thread is BS.

I have provided more than enough evidence the claim is EXTREMELY questionable.

One of the biggest clues is that on the flight record in question 42 flight hours are recorded. Not ONCE in those 42 hours was the flight door opened. I find that VERY hard to believe.

The OP posted the thread making a claim. If you want to believe it let's see some actual proof.

And as I've already said I've given more than enough reasons for that CLAIM to be completely invalid.

PROOF of the claim is not on me but is on the OP.

Put up or shut up.
"Everybody lies."
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 827142
United States
11/30/2009 07:08 PM
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Re: 9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE FLIGHT DECK DOOR CLOSED FOR ENTIRE FLIGHT
By the same token GH, you cannot evne prove by your own stated methods that there were even any hi-jackers in the cockpit, can you? You were not there, and neither was I. we did not see all there was to see and hear either.

I am not convinced there ever were any hijackers.

The FBI stated that they were aware that the 'id's were fake, but have never bothered to tell anyone who the real alleged hijackers' ids were... they just let all thos arabic names dangle out their, after stating they knew the passports were fake ids.

In truth, the perfect conspiarcy has been pulled off, just as one was in the JFK assassination. A majority would never believe the truth, whatever it is now.


Let's just keep to the topic shall we?

The flight recorder actually had 42 flight hours in it.

None of the flight time EVER showed the door open during flight.

But more importantly.

The flight recorder system was manufactured in 1997 so it was an update for this particular recorder system.

The aircraft was built in 1991 and did not actually have a door sensor.

The FDR shows 0's for the flight door because it was an unused block.

Your thread topic has just been debunked.

Sorry.
 Quoting: G. House


When someone opens the door to the Cockpit, you have to hit the sensor to even get in the door.


So, You honestly did no debunking, really you just provided another question, and Hole to the story provided by the Government..


The OS is beginning to look like Swiss Cheese.
G. House

User ID: 830734
United States
11/30/2009 07:11 PM

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Re: 9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE FLIGHT DECK DOOR CLOSED FOR ENTIRE FLIGHT
OK,

it took a little digging but I found what the required 22 parameters for that aircraft would have been.

(1) Time;

(2) Pressure altitude;

(3) Indicated airspeed;

(4) Heading -- primary flight crew reference (if selectable, record discrete, true or magnetic);

(5) Normal acceleration (Vertical);

(6) Pitch attitude;

(7) Roll attitude;

(8) Manual radio transmitter keying, or CVR/DFDR synchronization reference;

(9) Thrust/power of each engine -- primary flight crew reference;

(10) Autopilot engagement status;

(11) Longitudinal acceleration;

(12) Pitch control input;

(13) Lateral control input;

(14) Rudder pedal input;

(15) Primary pitch control surface position;

(16) Primary lateral control surface position;

(17) Primary yaw control surface position;

(18) Lateral acceleration;

(19) Pitch trim surface position or parameters of paragraph (a)(82) of this section if currently recorded;

(20) Trailing edge flap or cockpit flap control selection (except when parameters of paragraph (a)(85) of this section apply);

(21) Leading edge flap or cockpit flap control selection (except when parameters of paragraph (a)(86) of this section apply);

(22) Each Thrust reverser position (or equivalent for propeller airplane); (1)




This is from:

[link to www.risingup.com]

Note that the cockpit flight door is NOT listed.

So the recorder was capable of more parameters than there were sensors for.

The parameter for the cockpit flight door was an unused block.

Note that it is far more expensive to install and wire the sensors than to use a generic flight recorder capable of more parameters.

So anyway, the OP's claim or thread title is DEBUNKED.

Last Edited by G. House on 11/30/2009 07:13 PM
"Everybody lies."
G. House

User ID: 830734
United States
11/30/2009 07:17 PM

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Re: 9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE FLIGHT DECK DOOR CLOSED FOR ENTIRE FLIGHT
So, You honestly did no debunking, really you just provided another question, and Hole to the story provided by the Government..


The OS is beginning to look like Swiss Cheese.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 827142


Doesn't matter in relation to this thread if the sensor isn't recorded by the flight recorder.

Which I've just shown above.

That parameter was not REQUIRED to be recorded by the new rules.
"Everybody lies."
Lastcall
User ID: 830717
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11/30/2009 07:19 PM
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Re: 9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE FLIGHT DECK DOOR CLOSED FOR ENTIRE FLIGHT
OK,

it took a little digging but I found what the required 22 parameters for that aircraft would have been.

(1) Time;

(2) Pressure altitude;

(3) Indicated airspeed;

(4) Heading -- primary flight crew reference (if selectable, record discrete, true or magnetic);

(5) Normal acceleration (Vertical);

(6) Pitch attitude;

(7) Roll attitude;

(8) Manual radio transmitter keying, or CVR/DFDR synchronization reference;

(9) Thrust/power of each engine -- primary flight crew reference;

(10) Autopilot engagement status;

(11) Longitudinal acceleration;

(12) Pitch control input;

(13) Lateral control input;

(14) Rudder pedal input;

(15) Primary pitch control surface position;

(16) Primary lateral control surface position;

(17) Primary yaw control surface position;

(18) Lateral acceleration;

(19) Pitch trim surface position or parameters of paragraph (a)(82) of this section if currently recorded;

(20) Trailing edge flap or cockpit flap control selection (except when parameters of paragraph (a)(85) of this section apply);

(21) Leading edge flap or cockpit flap control selection (except when parameters of paragraph (a)(86) of this section apply);

(22) Each Thrust reverser position (or equivalent for propeller airplane); (1)




This is from:

[link to www.risingup.com]

Note that the cockpit flight door is NOT listed.

So the recorder was capable of more parameters than there were sensors for.

The parameter for the cockpit flight door was an unused block.

Note that it is far more expensive to install and wire the sensors than to use a generic flight recorder capable of more parameters.

So anyway, the OP's claim or thread title is DEBUNKED.
 Quoting: G. House



Applause


You did miss one though

Even if the door switch was installed ...it could have simply been shattered when the door was kicked in.

If searching for cockpit door blueprints wouldn't raise a few eyebrows , I would check the design to see if the switch would still work when the latch snapped off.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 688990
United Kingdom
11/30/2009 07:19 PM
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Re: 9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE FLIGHT DECK DOOR CLOSED FOR ENTIRE FLIGHT
OK,

it took a little digging but I found what the required 22 parameters for that aircraft would have been.

(1) Time;

(2) Pressure altitude;

(3) Indicated airspeed;

(4) Heading -- primary flight crew reference (if selectable, record discrete, true or magnetic);

(5) Normal acceleration (Vertical);

(6) Pitch attitude;

(7) Roll attitude;

(8) Manual radio transmitter keying, or CVR/DFDR synchronization reference;

(9) Thrust/power of each engine -- primary flight crew reference;

(10) Autopilot engagement status;

(11) Longitudinal acceleration;

(12) Pitch control input;

(13) Lateral control input;

(14) Rudder pedal input;

(15) Primary pitch control surface position;

(16) Primary lateral control surface position;

(17) Primary yaw control surface position;

(18) Lateral acceleration;

(19) Pitch trim surface position or parameters of paragraph (a)(82) of this section if currently recorded;

(20) Trailing edge flap or cockpit flap control selection (except when parameters of paragraph (a)(85) of this section apply);

(21) Leading edge flap or cockpit flap control selection (except when parameters of paragraph (a)(86) of this section apply);

(22) Each Thrust reverser position (or equivalent for propeller airplane); (1)




This is from:

[link to www.risingup.com]

Note that the cockpit flight door is NOT listed.

So the recorder was capable of more parameters than there were sensors for.

The parameter for the cockpit flight door was an unused block.

Note that it is far more expensive to install and wire the sensors than to use a generic flight recorder capable of more parameters.

So anyway, the OP's claim or thread title is DEBUNKED.
 Quoting: G. House



If you show your proof to the ones who originated this story and they have no reply then i'll have no alternative but to believe you. Untill then it's still up in the air (excuse the pun).

I do not have the knowledge to know either way so i would be interested to know the real truth once and for all.
G. House

User ID: 830734
United States
11/30/2009 07:28 PM

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Re: 9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE FLIGHT DECK DOOR CLOSED FOR ENTIRE FLIGHT
OK,

it took a little digging but I found what the required 22 parameters for that aircraft would have been.

(1) Time;

(2) Pressure altitude;

(3) Indicated airspeed;

(4) Heading -- primary flight crew reference (if selectable, record discrete, true or magnetic);

(5) Normal acceleration (Vertical);

(6) Pitch attitude;

(7) Roll attitude;

(8) Manual radio transmitter keying, or CVR/DFDR synchronization reference;

(9) Thrust/power of each engine -- primary flight crew reference;

(10) Autopilot engagement status;

(11) Longitudinal acceleration;

(12) Pitch control input;

(13) Lateral control input;

(14) Rudder pedal input;

(15) Primary pitch control surface position;

(16) Primary lateral control surface position;

(17) Primary yaw control surface position;

(18) Lateral acceleration;

(19) Pitch trim surface position or parameters of paragraph (a)(82) of this section if currently recorded;

(20) Trailing edge flap or cockpit flap control selection (except when parameters of paragraph (a)(85) of this section apply);

(21) Leading edge flap or cockpit flap control selection (except when parameters of paragraph (a)(86) of this section apply);

(22) Each Thrust reverser position (or equivalent for propeller airplane); (1)




This is from:

[link to www.risingup.com]

Note that the cockpit flight door is NOT listed.

So the recorder was capable of more parameters than there were sensors for.

The parameter for the cockpit flight door was an unused block.

Note that it is far more expensive to install and wire the sensors than to use a generic flight recorder capable of more parameters.

So anyway, the OP's claim or thread title is DEBUNKED.



If you show your proof to the ones who originated this story and they have no reply then i'll have no alternative but to believe you. Untill then it's still up in the air (excuse the pun).

I do not have the knowledge to know either way so i would be interested to know the real truth once and for all.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 688990


Why do I have to show them?

They made bogus claims without looking into the situation thoroughly.

I've shown you the actual FAA requirements for that particular aircraft and its date of manufacture.

And then you have to consider the site it originated from.

Pilotsfor911truth.com or something like that?

Most of the posters aren't even pilots.
"Everybody lies."
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 749717
United States
11/30/2009 08:50 PM
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Re: 9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE FLIGHT DECK DOOR CLOSED FOR ENTIRE FLIGHT
bump
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 830853
Australia
11/30/2009 09:28 PM
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Re: 9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE FLIGHT DECK DOOR CLOSED FOR ENTIRE FLIGHT
Could be true.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 840490
United States
12/13/2009 11:14 PM
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Re: 9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE FLIGHT DECK DOOR CLOSED FOR ENTIRE FLIGHT
Seems some should just click the thread li nked at Pilots For 9/11 Truth as GH debunk has been debunked.

"Another claim that could be made is that the NTSB lists this parameter as "not working or unconfirmed". They also list Radar Altitude the same - "not working or unconfirmed". Those who make excuse for the govt story cherry pick the newly decoded Radar Data for their impact theories but disregard confirmed Pressure altitude data which shows too high to hit the Pentagon. It is quite possible the NTSB listed "FLT DECK DOOR" as "unconfirmed" due to the fact they believe the door would and should have been opened during flight for the hijack to take place. Again, this goes back to the jumpseat issue and why the FAA ceased all offline commuters access to the jumpseat post-911.[Until verified and then CASS system]"

There are over 300 parameters that are recording an VERIFIED by the NTSB. There are over 750 listed as "not working or unconfirmed".

The reason they are listed as such is explained at Pilots For 9/11 Truth.

"Nestaerospace ( [link to nestaerospace.com] ) says : “Parameter Validation Tool provides the Capability of checking and reporting whether all mandatory parameters are correctly recorded within specified limits, resolution and accuracy , to be compliant with FAA/EASA/DGCA/IOSA or any other Civil Aviation Authority and requirement.”

It is necessary only for all mandatory parameters [with] specified limits, resolution and accuracy.

That's why open or close is not validated, because there is no need to validate the limit, accuracy etc...

Definitively debunked"

[link to pilotsfor911truth.org]
bobnightman

User ID: 823850
United States
12/13/2009 11:15 PM
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Re: 9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE FLIGHT DECK DOOR CLOSED FOR ENTIRE FLIGHT
Inside job
12/21/12
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 840490
United States
12/13/2009 11:21 PM
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Re: 9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE FLIGHT DECK DOOR CLOSED FOR ENTIRE FLIGHT
For those wishing to Debunk the Debunkers, Pilots For 9/11 Truth has a thread with all the common excuses made by those who blindly support the govt story.

[link to pilotsfor911truth.org]

G House, you may want to personally check claim 1 as you are wrong as usual. They have LOTS of pilots, who can also be verified at faa.gov.

I have their DVD's. The above OP is just more holes in the govt story. Their analysis on the other presentations seals the deal. 9/11, as we were told by our govt, was a big lie.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 840490
United States
12/14/2009 10:56 AM
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Re: 9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE FLIGHT DECK DOOR CLOSED FOR ENTIRE FLIGHT
bump
just a dude

User ID: 837009
United States
12/14/2009 11:12 AM

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Re: 9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE FLIGHT DECK DOOR CLOSED FOR ENTIRE FLIGHT
The 9/11 crash videos are fake, but that doesn't seem to be huge news either, because people are sheep and have no consideration for truth.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 825617


But there is one video worthy of attention.
The parking lot surveillance video.
The 'object' in the video covers the distance of the Field of View in 1 frame.

If the camera recorded at 30 frames per second and one estimates the FOV to be about 100 yards, then the object was traveling 100 yds per 1/30 sec, or about 3000 yd/s.

That translates to 6136 mph or over Mach 8.
Truthache

User ID: 1114853
United States
06/01/2011 12:51 AM
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Re: 9/11: PENTAGON AIRCRAFT HIJACK IMPOSSIBLE FLIGHT DECK DOOR CLOSED FOR ENTIRE FLIGHT
TEACHER:
OK CHILDREN READ THESE WORDS THE FAST WAY WITHOUT MAKING A MISTAKE. GET READY...

CHILDREN:

KITE

HIT

STEEL

PLANE

MUST
in warm pursuit...