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SHOCKING EXPOSE OF VETERINARY PRACTICES ~ TO FLEECE THEIR TRUSTING OWNERS

 
~:*Winnie*:~
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SHOCKING EXPOSE OF VETERINARY PRACTICES ~ TO FLEECE THEIR TRUSTING OWNERS
i know there are a lot of animal lovers here, so i thought you all might be interested to read what i already knew. or at least suspected.

Why I'm ashamed to be a vet: a shocking exposé of the profession that puts pets through 'painful and unnecessary treatments to fleece their trusting owners'



For eight years Matthew Watkinson worked as a vet. But are vets really the saints they are made out to be? Here, Matthew, 32, now an author, exposes the uncuddly truth about vets that every animal lover should read. . .
Matthew Watkinson says treating family pets has spawned a whole industry

Matthew Watkinson says treating family pets has spawned a whole industry

The greyhound's soulful eyes seemed to plead with me to help him. His thin tail tucked between his legs, he stood still with fear on the examination table as the posse of fellow veterinary students listened to the chief lecturer.

Aged 12, he had bone cancer in a hind leg and it was advanced, we were told. Looking at the dog, I imagined he'd had a good life. Obviously, from the condition of his brushed coat, and his muscled body, he had an owner who knew how to care for him.

As a student vet who in a year was to graduate to work in my own practice, I knew what I would recommend if I were this dog's owner - and that was a loving and peaceful death.

But putting the greyhound to sleep and out of his misery was not the correct answer, the lecturer told me quite sternly.

A humane death would not be the course of treatment offered to its owner. Well, at any rate, not yet. After all, didn't I realise the advances that had been made in veterinary medicine? There were 'options' that could extend this old dog's life.

No, instead, its leg was going to be amputated and then a course of chemotherapy would be tried to ensure that 'all was done to save the dog's life' - at a cost of £1,000 to £2,000, or even more.

I have no idea what the owner thought of this. But, as the majority of pet owners want to do the best by their beloved dog, I can only imagine he or she took this 'chief' vet's expensive advice to try to 'save' the pet.

Meanwhile, I remember pushing down the revulsion I felt about putting the dog through what we all knew would be punishing treatment that in all likelihood would not work.

And even if it did give that greyhound an extra year or so of life, how could anyone explain to it that the suffering was for a reason? That lying in a small cage, surgically maimed, and hooked up to a drip for weeks, perhaps months, would be 'worth it'.

Today I look back on that lecture and realise that already I had begun to question the role of vets in animal 'welfare'.

'I found myself so disgusted at the moneymaking practices I left the profession altogether'
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////​/////////////

The point is yes, we could treat this dog's cancer, but was it in the best interests of that dog? Morally, should we have even considered further treatment or was it all about making money?

Of course, back then I avoided becoming embroiled in ethics. I was just thrilled to be one of the lucky few to have made it into the most prestigious vet school in the country - London's Royal Veterinary College.

Having had a comprehensive school education, I went into the job because I was fascinated by biology and genuinely wanted to help animals. And although my parents had good jobs - my mother was a nurse and my father a radiographer - I was the first person in my family to go to university, and understandably my family was incredibly proud of my achievement.

So, despite the doubts already beginning to form in my mind, I ploughed on. A year after the greyhound incident I graduated and took my veterinary oath, which all vets swear to, promising 'to ensure the welfare of animals committed to my care'.

Back then, I had no concept that far from the saviours of animals they purport to be, the blame for much animal suffering in the UK can be laid so firmly at the door of vets.

I had no idea that I would ultimately be driven to confess that I am ashamed to be a vet and that, eight years after qualifying, I would find myself so disgusted at the moneymaking practices that I would leave the profession altogether.

Of course, not all vets deliberately set out to make as much money as they can out of treating animals. But money - not the welfare of the animal - is often at the forefront of the vet's mind.

Of course there are outright cowboys in any field and the veterinary profession is sadly no exception.

Today you will notice more and more practices have sprung up throughout the country - especially in those affluent areas where the middle-class residents treat their pets as part of their family.

One might imagine that because there are so many more vets that animals need more medical help than ever. But the truth is far simpler. A whole industry has arisen out of squeezing the most money out of treating family pets.
During the 'health check' that goes with a jab visit, it is amazing how many problems the vet might find

During the 'health check' that goes with a jab visit, it is amazing how many problems the vet might find

It is not unheard of for vets to Google a pet owner's home to see which area the family live in. Big house in a posh road - well, you can offer more treatment to that pet owner, of course. I never witnessed this in my practice, but I heard of it happening. Charge more for your services so a vaccination that costs a few pence becomes a £35 'consultation'. And that isn't all.

While the owner might believe he or she is only taking their cat for a vaccination (and I have no problem with sensible preventative healthcare) for the vet, this visit can be a way to make even more money out of a perfectly healthy animal.

During the 'health check' which accompanies the vaccination visit, it is amazing the potential 'problems' the vet might find.

more:

[link to www.dailymail.co.uk]

Last Edited by ^TrInItY^ on 04/05/2018 10:03 PM
happy now?
Anonymous
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12/01/2009 01:55 PM
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Re: SHOCKING EXPOSE OF VETERINARY PRACTICES ~ TO FLEECE THEIR TRUSTING OWNERS
Vets often push for heart worm treatment at a cost of over $2,000, most of which is boarding the dog for 2 months. A dog receiving the highly toxic remedy miticide, must be limited in movement so the dead worms don't lodge in a blood vessel and kill the dog.

Many people don't realize that the same thing can be done at home by getting the worm shots at the vet and then caging the dog at home, or if it is a 'couch potato' dog anyway, just keep a close watch on it and don't let it start running or playing hard.

Cost of the heart worm remedy shots alone with no vet boarding vary from $150. to $1,200. Shop around!!!
Anonymous Coward
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12/01/2009 01:59 PM
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Save even more cash, use mms. :)
Your dog won't have to be a potato either.
Anonymous Coward
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12/01/2009 02:06 PM
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Re: SHOCKING EXPOSE OF VETERINARY PRACTICES ~ TO FLEECE THEIR TRUSTING OWNERS
Doctors do the same to humans why would the medical field be any different for animals.
ShadowDancer

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12/01/2009 02:08 PM
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Re: SHOCKING EXPOSE OF VETERINARY PRACTICES ~ TO FLEECE THEIR TRUSTING OWNERS
bump
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Thread: The Excrement Is Striking the Rotary Oscillator
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- U.S. government mind manipulator, Dr. Jose Delgado, Congressional Record, No. 262E, Vol. 118, 1974
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Realeyesrealizereal​lies. C.

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Anonymous Coward
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12/01/2009 02:12 PM
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Re: SHOCKING EXPOSE OF VETERINARY PRACTICES ~ TO FLEECE THEIR TRUSTING OWNERS
same for people doctors.
Anonymous
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12/01/2009 02:14 PM
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Save even more cash, use mms. :)
Your dog won't have to be a potato either.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 819229



I agree! Didn't mention it because I've said that so many times it sounds like I'm selling the stuff.

Also, a slower cure for heartworms is to just continue giving regular monthly heartworm meds---takes a couple of years to totally get rid of adult worms and you do have to keep the dog somewhat inactive. After a year or so to reduce the number of worms and lessen the chances of clogged blood vessels and body organs, you could go with the miticide to be sure of totally wiping them out, or just continue with heartworm meds and maybe some diatomaceous earth to shred remaining larvae.

Check out the various alternative medicine forums; there's lots of info on heartworms. www.curezone.com is a good one
Anonymous Coward
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12/01/2009 02:47 PM
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Re: SHOCKING EXPOSE OF VETERINARY PRACTICES ~ TO FLEECE THEIR TRUSTING OWNERS
I agree with you about the dog with cancer.Also having health insurance for humans or animals is likely to result in unnessesary treatment.Some owners would pay anything to keep their pets alive and others wouldn't.Some people are prepared to pay their bills others want the treatment for free so I can understand googling to see if people can pay their bills.Who would expect free food at the supermarket other than MPs.Running a veterinary practice is expensive and requires 24 hour cover by law.Vets have to buy buildings and equipment and the drugs for the animals,pay the salaries of all the people working in the practice out of the money they earn from the practice.In Britain we get most of our human health cover for free.If we had to pay for it many people would not be able to pay and would be shocked at what their operation cost.
PACNWguy

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12/01/2009 03:07 PM
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Years ago we had a older lab who injured her eye. The vet said for $1800 he was pretty sure he could save the eye. (My wife said of course do whatever you have to do.)

10 days later after treating the PAINFUL eye every two hours 24/7 the vet said the eye was dead and he could remove it for only $400.

A week later the dog was 100% and never knew her eye was missing. She wore a pirate's patch on halloween.

Animals can adapt to just about anything.

Had we just had the eye removed on day one, we would have saved a ton of misery for the dog, a lot of speep and $1800.

The fucking vet could have talked us out of the surgery really easy.
OBAMA - THE FASTEST FAILED PRESIDENT IN AMERICAN HISTORY

"I inherated and I am Great!"
Anonymous Coward
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12/01/2009 03:08 PM
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Doctors do the same to humans why would the medical field be any different for animals.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 803520


sockpuppet
Anonymous Coward
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12/01/2009 03:17 PM
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thanks for this post. I just brought my dog to the vet yesterday; she's 15, has had a good long life, and is now panting, bad hips, in pain and may have cancer.

I brought her home for a few days to try the painkillers and see how she does...but I know it my heart it's just time.

I did not take the vet up on her offer to do bloodwork, steroid treatments and chemo. I'd only be doing it for myself.

Right now, Ladybug is asleep at my feet, dreaming like a puppy. I'll miss her very much.
PACNWguy

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12/01/2009 03:22 PM
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thanks for this post. I just brought my dog to the vet yesterday; she's 15, has had a good long life, and is now panting, bad hips, in pain and may have cancer.

I brought her home for a few days to try the painkillers and see how she does...but I know it my heart it's just time.

I did not take the vet up on her offer to do bloodwork, steroid treatments and chemo. I'd only be doing it for myself.

Right now, Ladybug is asleep at my feet, dreaming like a puppy. I'll miss her very much.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 752672



The panting is not a good sign.


sadbear
OBAMA - THE FASTEST FAILED PRESIDENT IN AMERICAN HISTORY

"I inherated and I am Great!"
Miggy
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12/01/2009 03:54 PM
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Re: SHOCKING EXPOSE OF VETERINARY PRACTICES ~ TO FLEECE THEIR TRUSTING OWNERS
I've been doing Doxie Rescue since Hurricane Andrew in '92 and I think I've seen it all.

I've known about 5 extremely compassionate vets and about a dozen greedy, heartless bastards.

Each breed has their special problem area. With Doxies, it's their back- carrying too much weight on short legs. One in four Doxies develop a blown disc, usually between the ages of 3-7. Surgery is $5,000+.

My little Manny was moments away from euthanasia when I ran across him 3 years ago. His back was blown in 3 places and the owners couldn't afford to save him. (FUCK THEM! I know EXACTLY what's behind that story. At two years of age they had this little guy studding and his back was probably blown from fucking so much, while still a puppy.)

There is a short window of opportunity to save a Doxie when this happens (just a couple of hours before the nerves start dying off). Manny was paralyzed from the chest down.

I worked with that trusting little guy several times a day (5 minutes each)for two months working on his muscles, etc. It HAD to be painful for him but he would look deep into my eyes. I KNOW that he KNEW I was saving him.

Today he runs around, bouncing all over the place- though I do NOT encourage jumping or rough activity of any kind. (I have ramps leading up to my bed, sofa, etc.) That dog is SO happy to walk/run because I'm certain he remembers when he couldn't.

However, last year I noticed him walking a bit "hunched over" and thought, "Oh, God, no!"

I whisked him right off to my vet and after x-ray's, etc. the vet says, "I know you don't want to hear this but he's going to need back surgery. Here's the name of a really good vet who performs it."

Yeah, right. What type of racket do these two have going on?

I had recently found and used a WONDERFUL holistic vet on another pet. She's expensive ($250 for initial one hour visit- $100 after that).

But in ONE HOUR (using acupuncture, etc.) she restored his back and he's never had a single problem again.

To anyone thinking $250 is too much for this vet to charge,
to get to where she is today she had to:

1. Attend 4 years of college.

2. Attend another 2-3 years of med school.

3. Spend one year Internship.

4. And THEN spend another 3 years going through the holistic medical program to get her degree in that area.

11 years of her life and thousands of dollars. I'm not a "cat" person but apparently she's an expert on curing feline leukemia. When vets say 3-6 months, chemo, etc. she keeps them going several more years. One lady has had her cat 8 years since diagnosed with the disease and only has to bring her cat in bi-monthly for treatment at under $100/visit.

I know this is long but one more thing: When I first moved here I had to find a vet and coincidently the vet had just gotten a Doxie puppy for his kids.

We began talking about her habits and I nearly FAINTED when he said he lets her jump off furniture, climb up the stairs to the 2nd story, etc.

"What can you do? It's in their breed." I was mortified that a vet would be this stupid with his own animal and never went back.

If you own an animal there are free web-site forums for every breed run by animal-loving people like you and me.

Before you forget, google your breed now and bookmark it. Their members will give you expert advice that will most likely save you $$$$ and your sanity.

Happy Holidays!

Miggy

PS. The one thing that scares the HELL out of me is that this will be the first time in years that I get to fly home for Christmas. I'll be gone 7 days and have to board them with the greedy vet (the holistic one doesn't board). I'm terrified he'll do something sneaky. I'll just have to pray to God on this area. After all, even God loves my animals a million times more than I do.
~:*Winnie*:~  (OP)

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Re: SHOCKING EXPOSE OF VETERINARY PRACTICES ~ TO FLEECE THEIR TRUSTING OWNERS
thanks for this post. I just brought my dog to the vet yesterday; she's 15, has had a good long life, and is now panting, bad hips, in pain and may have cancer.

I brought her home for a few days to try the painkillers and see how she does...but I know it my heart it's just time.

I did not take the vet up on her offer to do bloodwork, steroid treatments and chemo. I'd only be doing it for myself.

Right now, Ladybug is asleep at my feet, dreaming like a puppy. I'll miss her very much.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 752672


i went through something similar earlier this year. the vet found problem after problem and she ended up on so many tablets, it seemed that whatever we gave her it threw up some other problem. and thats what got me thinking about this. in the end she let me know it was time to go, i know i tried very very hard for her, but it was her time. i didnt want her to die distressed and scared. we have her buried in the garden and my daughter and i made her a headstone with cement and glittery things. she loved glitter.

i dont blame you for your decision, i think you are doing the right thing for her, and thats the most important thing.

my heart goes out to you at this time, it really does hf
happy now?
~:*Winnie*:~  (OP)

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12/01/2009 04:03 PM
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thanks guys for all your replies. i kinda thought this was the way it was after doing some research into vaccinations.

its pretty shocking all the same to see it in print in the MSM no less..
happy now?
Miggy
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12/01/2009 04:06 PM
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Re: SHOCKING EXPOSE OF VETERINARY PRACTICES ~ TO FLEECE THEIR TRUSTING OWNERS
thanks for this post. I just brought my dog to the vet yesterday; she's 15, has had a good long life, and is now panting, bad hips, in pain and may have cancer.

I brought her home for a few days to try the painkillers and see how she does...but I know it my heart it's just time.

I did not take the vet up on her offer to do bloodwork, steroid treatments and chemo. I'd only be doing it for myself.

Right now, Ladybug is asleep at my feet, dreaming like a puppy. I'll miss her very much.



The panting is not a good sign.


:sadbear:
 Quoting: PACNWguy



No, it's not. Though it's completely understandable why you're not handling this, I encourage you to do the right thing. Your little Ladybug has earned this from the one she has entrusted her proper care and happiness throughout her life.

For anyone grieving the loss of a pet or going through this, I am posting an email I sent a family member last year when they were devastated by the loss of their pet.

It's long but I have heard from those I've sent it to while grieving and I've been told it helped them immensely. You may want to copy/paste for when that inevitable day comes.

Love, Miggy.





Yes, Dogs go to Heaven. My email to a couple I love who just lost their pet.
March 6th, 2009

Post-Edit:
I have spent several hours trying to find the right words to say to you. At this point I think it's best if I stop searching, editing or adding and simply send this out.

Whether I have chosen the right words or not I hope you know I did so with the best of intentions and hope that you get something out of this email that may comfort you in some way.

I love you both very much and am just so sorry that this has to occur.
Lynne


Dear Andy and Traci,

I feel special knowing that you felt comfortable enough to share this sad time in your life with me.

This type of loss is very intimate in nature and one that many of us tend not to want to share with others. In a way it's kind of like a final "cloak" you shield around little Tanner, wanting to keep him in the safety of your loving arms rather than entrusting even his memory to others.

Tonight we joked about Traci putting Tanner's little box of ashes under the front seat while running an errand so that no-one would steal him. And I'm glad we can keep things in perspective while maintaining a sense of humor.

As I said, anyone who knows the love you three shared wouldn't think a thing about such behavior. In fact I feel it's touching and shows what loving and grounded individuals you both are.

I have often regretted not saving the thoughts I've shared with others when writing them after they've lost their own "child". I never do because I always feel like every situation is different.

The fact is, it really isn't. Though Cheryl's experience in losing Baxtor is entirely different than my losing Miss Molly-Dog or you losing your little Tanner, we all experience the same raw and excruciating emotions.

Sometimes I wonder if we don't accept the death of a loved human easier than we do our pets. It's easy to know where they'll end up since we are Christian.

Believe me, I have spent hours and hours for years thinking about this and from every possible angle in hopes of coming to some solid conclusion. I have beat myself senseless trying to comprehend what only God truly understands. Perhaps it makes sense that HE finally gave me some answers over the years that I feel comfortable with, if only to shut me up.

I have thought about the three of you (yes, in my mind it will always be the three of you) non-stop, since hearing the sad news from Cheryl.

I imagine Aunt Peggy thinks I've lost my mind after crying on the phone to her last night.

I sat up all through the night knowing in my heart exactly what you are feeling. And just thinking that two people who I love are in the pain that I've experienced opens up my own wounds again.

Maybe that's God's way of keeping us compassionate. I don't know. I just know it really hurts and I hurt for you.

I want to be able to offer you some comfort during the coming days and weeks. I suppose it's a good start that the three of us share so many common beliefs.

I have tried to help others through their own pet loss experiences in the past and even if they loved their pet as much as you or I have, the dynamics are always different when that person doesn't believe in God. Believe me, we are much luckier than those people. I'm not sure they
ever fully recover after losing their beloved pet. But I won't get into those differences now.

When you told me that you two were looking for a book I knew you were wanting some questions answered because I've done that same thing before.

There are a few but I'll be honest. They've never answered the nagging questions that I or anyone I know have ever experienced. However, Cheryl says she found comfort in one that I list below and I think that would be a good start.

Each individual has their own unique issues to work through.

For instance, tonight Traci expressed two areas that bother her- her concern over whether it was right to cremate little Tanner as well as her concern regarding where Tanner is right now. Each are struggles for Traci.

Andy, you seem to be comfortable in your decision about Tanner's physical body and I am comfortable with that as well. I have always preferred to have my "kids" cremated and brought back to my home.

Cheryl, on the other hand, is comfortable with her burial of Baxtor.

The fact is, this is an area that Traci needs to work out for herself. Maybe I don't have the right answers but I want to attempt to bring her some peace with that issue.

Note: Since writing the above sentence Cheryl caused me to think more about this so I started looking around and I may have stumbled onto something because I'm seeing a pattern.

Traci, I really think that we want for our animals what we also choose for ourselves.

I told Cheryl, I don't care if I'm shot out into space if it's easier for those left behind. I simply don't attach my body to my spirit.

Practically speaking, it has made more sense for me to cremate my pets for a couple of reasons.

First, who knows if I will ever move and if I did I certainly couldn't "dig up" my family.

Second, my pets have always been my strength and if I miss Mambo or any of the others I can easily bring a little wooden box to my heart if I need to cry a few tears.

But then again, I don't care what happens to the shell I used while living here on earth.

Cheryl, on the other hand, prefers a traditional Christian burial and so it makes sense that she chose to bury Baxtor in a field.

Maybe Traci, if you look at the method you prefer when it's your time to move on to Heaven, that will help you understand why the method you chose for little Tanner is causing you some concern.

I also imagine it must be hard when a mother has been as meticulous as you were over a beautiful, little body of life.

I know Tanner was extremely well-groomed, more so than my rolling, digging, Doxie- hounds. If I had chosen a breed whose pedigree was recognized for it's appearance (among many other wonderful qualities) rather than for it's clumsy mannerisms I most likely would have gone through the same conflicts that you are now feeling.

I asked Cheryl if she might add something to help you through this issue because I think maybe she can put it in a way that you might better understand.

I just know that I'm very glad to have mine at "home" with me and I really think once some time has passed that you will feel that way too. I won't talk about a future project of creating a little space in your home dedicated to Tanner because that's not what's important right now.

The pain of this is all so fresh and even if I try to find the right words it just seems shallow to type them out on a keyboard. But I guess it's all I can do so I'm trying the best I can.

Traci, we only barely touched on the subject of the stages of grief and how it varies between losing a person and losing a pet. Looking back, I should have said that even though the stages are the same I think they tend to bounce around more when losing a pet than when losing a
person. Furthermore, I believe that various steps may be "skipped" or repeated" several times before coming to a resolution with our loss.

Also, when I spoke of the anger stage I didn't mean to imply that you would be in a rage. I was merely trying to make sure that you understand that it most likely will occur, even in a subtle manner and sometime(s) when you aren't expecting it.

If during that time you have even fleeting moments of anger directed at God, I believe He understands completely. If that should occur please don't succumb to feelings of guilt.

I found the best article I could relating to the stages of grief over a pet and included it in the list of reading below. It's an area that doesn't seem to be addressed much and I believe there is a very REAL difference between how we grieve a pet and how we grieve a person. If I had better writing skills I might attempt to put something out there. I hope it's a start to answering your questions.

You had mentioned that you felt you shouldn't follow through with an appointment today because it might be disrespectful to Tanner.

The only thing I can say about that is- even if you DO follow through with such appointments you will probably not get through them without thinking of Tanner a thousand times anyway.
If that's the case and you're thinking of Tanner even more than you did before (when attending those same appointments) , how can that be construed as disrespect?

I think it's important to try and maintain your routines as much as possible.

I have said this a couple of times now and Andy touched on this tonight when he talked about his not wanting to make his daily lunch to take to work the past couple of days because it was too sad to do so, knowing that Tanner wasn't standing by his side waiting for a little "snack".
I understand this completely and agree with it.

Right now I say the "rules" are off. The two of you need to do whatever it takes to care for yourselves.

I don't think it's a coincidence that so many pet owners become physically ill after the loss of their "fur baby".

The toll of emotions, exhaustion, stress, change in routine, anguish, question of beliefs, etc. are overwhelming and will affect your health.

This is a time for the two of you to nurture yourselves and each other. I know that your marriage is very strong and I know that God loves you very much and I also believe that God is capable of feeling heartbreak when He watches what we go through.

He knew that this awful day would come but He also knew 13 years ago that He had a little perfect creature that needed the best home on earth and that's why He gave you little Tanner.

I also believe that it's why God thought it best to take Tanner gently in his sleep while you were at work.

I have never studied the statistics of pets dying on their own versus euthanasia but I know from experience that it is very rare. I'll have to keep thinking about this but my initial thoughts are that I think God chose this to spare you of the agonizing situation of deciding for yourself when it was "time".

There is nothing like experiencing that agonizing process of decision and I'm grateful you didn't have to go through it. It doesn't just involve the fate of your pet but it tests the foundation of your beliefs to the core. The questions that remain are brutal and don't let up for a long time.

"Who am I to even think of taking a life, much less the life of an animal who trusts me with all of his heart? Is it too soon? Should I wait one more day? What if I wait one more day and then my pet is in pain while I'm at work? Do I really KNOW whether he's in pain or am I just imagining it? Am I thinking he IS in pain when he really isn't? How do I know that I'm doing this for the right reason?" And on and on.

I truly think God didn't want you to have to go through this. He knew it was going to be devastating enough so He chose to make it as painless as possible.

This leads into my belief on why I know that Tanner is having the time of his life tonight, both in Heaven or in your home or even in between both places, as God feels the need.

How could God possibly create everything so perfectly for us, including His knowledge of our capability to love and care for His animals and then not include that in His eternal plan for us? To me, it would almost be cruel to allow us that love and then strip it from us when it
comes time to move on from our earthly bodies. It just goes against everything that God IS.

Love doesn't just die. It's powerful enough even when God doesn't fit into the equation.
But when He does, as is the case with the three of you, it is just too overwhelming to even contemplate.

Have you ever watched shows on the animal kingdom? There are many that are my favorite, but one story in particular is the perfect example of how much love went into God's creation of our animals. I won't even get into the fact that He pretty much chose to create them after the sun and the earth and the stars and BEFORE us. That might put His love in perspective.

He created everything we would ever need before He created us and part of what He knew we would need is His animals. He KNEW that the two of you needed Tanner in order to live your lives as happy, loving people.

When that horrible tsunami hit Indonesia a few years back it occurred near an open wildlife park.

If you'll remember the people on the beach were amazed and actually began walking out onto the sand where a minute before there had been an ocean. Incidentally, this is something I will never understand. If an ocean ever does that when I'm standing there I'm not going to start
picking up fish.

But my point is, people reacted to this much differently than the animals did. People didn't even use their common sense to save themselves but the animal kingdom went to work in one of the most fascinating manners I've ever read about.

The first thing that happened was that the fish in the ocean, when sensing the rumbling, dropped from the top of the water to the bottom.

When this happened the birds who eat the fish looked at each other and said, "WHAT?! What's going on?" and so they flew back to the safety of their nests.

Now you have other animals who were used to seeing empty nests all day and suddenly there are a bunch of twittering birds everywhere and so the animals looked at each other and said, "This isn't good. Something's wrong here." And so they each went to work to alert the others.

Now keep in mind this entire group of animals, even those who normally would kill each other, went to work to SAVE each other.

The elephants raised their trunks and bellowed out, "WARNING!"
The giraffes cocked their long necks back and forth as a signal, "Distress!"
The tigers roared. The monkeys screeched.
I'm sure every other creature participated as well, but you get the point.

Because of this, not ONE, SINGLE animal lost it's life that day during a tragedy that killed many people. This is true. The Park had tracking devices on all of them and they were each accounted for when it was over.

Now I ask you, if this doesn't prove to you how much God loves the creatures He put on this earth, what will?

And if He thought to make all of these unique animals actually LOVE each other and work to help save each other, how could He ever contemplate a Heaven that didn't include such wonderful masterpieces?

Out of all of the animals in the world there are only a handful that God chose to become our domestic friends and of course one of those is the dog.

I may love watching shows about Zebras but the truth is, as much as I love watching them I will never have the same kind of relationship with them like I have had with my dogs.

I LOVE my animals and God is delighted that I do. That's what He put them here for.
Do you think God just abandons them? I think God is very sad when He see animals abused and He's very happy when He sees His children loving those He put in their care. Little Tanner's life was planned with the same care that God used when making yours or mine.

It probably took a long time to make the animal kingdom. Look at how intricate the design is of a porcupine and his built-in protection. Or a puffer fish. Or a skunk, an aardvark, an eagle, a buffalo or any other. Well, except snakes. I don't like them and I don't think God
does either and I certainly don't think there are any of those in Heaven and if there are I feel really sorry for Grandma Krider right now. It's probably bad enough that there might be a mouse or two up there.

Now look at dogs. God could have just as easily made one dog and we would have been just as happy because we wouldn't know any better. But he didn't even stop there. He gave us a million kind of dogs and each of them has a special gift that is specific to their breed. Did you know that Dachshunds and hounds in general can actually detect cancer in their human owners long before an invisible bunch of cells show up in a medical test?

Now think about how truly amazing that is. God actually gave us free medical screening and detection if we would just pay attention to His animals.

My point is that we know that God loves us so much more than we're capable of understanding and the only reason we probably never really think about whether dogs go to Heaven is because we're people. I imagine it's possible for animals to know that there's a God and a Heaven. I know for a fact that dogs are aware of their oncoming death because I saw it with my Moses. If you ever want me to explain, I will. But trust me, they don't fight it. They accept it as easily as they do anything else in their life and they're not afraid of it like people are.

Their little hearts are so much purer than ours that I wonder if they don't have an extra special relationship with God and in having that, are much more at peace with death since they know where they're going.

Andy and Traci, I love you very much. I don't know if this is helping you. I just know that God knows what you're feeling and He's sad but He also knows that He's got a little bundle of energy bouncing around up there, waiting for two people who He loves very much.

But until you get there Tanner is having the time of his life. Seriously. As much as you did for him here I don't think he would choose to come back here instead of staying at the place he is right now. The only thing that will make him happier is the day when he sees you each again. But he's up there chasing cats or chewing on another toy (and this time it tastes like steak and the flavor never runs out) and actually the poor thing probably can't run around without being picked up by another loving angel because he's so cute everyone's going to want to hold him.

He gets to stay up late and swim whenever he wants and he doesn't have to get his nails trimmed. And at night when he's just "all played out" like Grandma would always say, he is in the snuggliest little bed and it probably smells like Andy's shirt. Because that's what Heaven is. For Tanner just like for us. It's so perfect that God even thinks to remember that Tanner prefers the scent of Andy next to him when he sleeps.

There will be a point that you want to write a memorial to Tanner but I think you should wait a few more days and not rush into this. I am only saying that because your memories will be different when things settle down. Surprisingly you'll remember things that you forgot all
about. Maybe this is another way God helps us overcome this kind of pain.

When you do, there is a site called Petloss.com and you can make your entry and it will be there for all to see for as long as there is cyberspace. In fact, you can find my entries there. I haven't visited for a while because I cry when I sign on but I'll find the things I wrote and send them to you another time.

There are many renditions of The Rainbow Bridge. I don't like many of them. One is spectacular to me. But it's going to make you cry so please don't open the link until you're in a place where you can do that.

After that I have listed just a few of MANY articles I have saved on some of the issues you're going through. These are about as good as they get and I'd advise you not to go looking for more. Some articles I have seen do more harm than good and until you're WAY past the hurt
they can easily make things worse. Just please accept the ones I am giving you.

Then there are the books and I've marked the one that Cheryl really liked.

Most of all, please remember that this will hurt for some time but that there are many people who love the two of you very much and they are hurting along with you. But most of all they love you and there is no greater gift than love, right?

In Christ,
Lynne.

Eugene O'Neill and I have the same idea about where Tanner is.

"Two days ago we waded through the mud out to this grave beneath the pines at the foot of the hill to place a Christmas wreath on it, hoping he would look down from the Paradise of Ten Billion Trees and Unrationable Dog Biscuits and pity us."

Eugene O'Neill, speaking about Blemie

My favorite version of The Rainbow Bridge:
[link to www.indigo.org]
Go here to enter your memories or post a memorial to Tanner:
But please don't go here either until you're in a place when you can cry without being embarrassed.
[link to petloss.com]

Several books you may want to consider...

Cheryl liked this one:
Cold Noses at the Pearly Gates:
[link to www.amazon.com]

Here are others. There are many but I think these are more on the level of what you need to comfort yourselves with the particular questions bothering you.

When Only Love Remains
[link to www.amazon.com]
There is Eternal Life for Animals
[link to www.amazon.com]
Who says Animals go to Heaven? (Lynne's comment: Many ministers, that's
who.)
[link to www.amazon.com]
This article is more along the lines of how I look at this sad event.
[link to www.obit-mag.com]

This article addresses the various of stages of grief:
[link to www.hsus.org]
Anonymous Coward
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12/01/2009 04:08 PM
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Re: SHOCKING EXPOSE OF VETERINARY PRACTICES ~ TO FLEECE THEIR TRUSTING OWNERS
Vets often push for heart worm treatment at a cost of over $2,000, most of which is boarding the dog for 2 months. A dog receiving the highly toxic remedy miticide, must be limited in movement so the dead worms don't lodge in a blood vessel and kill the dog.

Many people don't realize that the same thing can be done at home by getting the worm shots at the vet and then caging the dog at home, or if it is a 'couch potato' dog anyway, just keep a close watch on it and don't let it start running or playing hard.

Cost of the heart worm remedy shots alone with no vet boarding vary from $150. to $1,200. Shop around!!!
 Quoting: Anonymous 750018


Prevention is $100 per year, treatment is $2000. It's your choice to treat your dog yourself, as they are considered property. You can get meds at your local COOP, but your success rate may not be as high as a DVM's.
Anonymous Coward
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12/01/2009 04:10 PM
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Save even more cash, use mms. :)
Your dog won't have to be a potato either.



I agree! Didn't mention it because I've said that so many times it sounds like I'm selling the stuff.

Also, a slower cure for heartworms is to just continue giving regular monthly heartworm meds---takes a couple of years to totally get rid of adult worms and you do have to keep the dog somewhat inactive. After a year or so to reduce the number of worms and lessen the chances of clogged blood vessels and body organs, you could go with the miticide to be sure of totally wiping them out, or just continue with heartworm meds and maybe some diatomaceous earth to shred remaining larvae.

Check out the various alternative medicine forums; there's lots of info on heartworms. www.curezone.com is a good one
 Quoting: Anonymous 750018


Yes, this is a proven alternative typically used on older dogs as a rule anyway. Not recommended for your spastic year old Lab.
Anonymous Coward
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12/01/2009 04:13 PM
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I agree with you about the dog with cancer.Also having health insurance for humans or animals is likely to result in unnessesary treatment.Some owners would pay anything to keep their pets alive and others wouldn't.Some people are prepared to pay their bills others want the treatment for free so I can understand googling to see if people can pay their bills.Who would expect free food at the supermarket other than MPs.Running a veterinary practice is expensive and requires 24 hour cover by law.Vets have to buy buildings and equipment and the drugs for the animals,pay the salaries of all the people working in the practice out of the money they earn from the practice.In Britain we get most of our human health cover for free.If we had to pay for it many people would not be able to pay and would be shocked at what their operation cost.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 819864


This is ONE story about ONE dog. Don't assume the entire world works this way. I've seen dogs on Chemo, but they were Service dogs. This dog would have been a PTS (put to sleep) if the cancer was totally inoperable without taking the leg. Especially on a larger dog like a greyhound.
Anonymous Coward
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12/01/2009 04:14 PM
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thanks for this post. I just brought my dog to the vet yesterday; she's 15, has had a good long life, and is now panting, bad hips, in pain and may have cancer.

I brought her home for a few days to try the painkillers and see how she does...but I know it my heart it's just time.

I did not take the vet up on her offer to do bloodwork, steroid treatments and chemo. I'd only be doing it for myself.

Right now, Ladybug is asleep at my feet, dreaming like a puppy. I'll miss her very much.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 752672



A Good veterinarian will know the difference between Keeping an animal alive for it's own benefit, and keeping it alive for the owner's benefit.
Anonymous Coward
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12/01/2009 04:20 PM
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thanks for this post. I just brought my dog to the vet yesterday; she's 15, has had a good long life, and is now panting, bad hips, in pain and may have cancer.

I brought her home for a few days to try the painkillers and see how she does...but I know it my heart it's just time.

I did not take the vet up on her offer to do bloodwork, steroid treatments and chemo. I'd only be doing it for myself.

Right now, Ladybug is asleep at my feet, dreaming like a puppy. I'll miss her very much.


i went through something similar earlier this year. the vet found problem after problem and she ended up on so many tablets, it seemed that whatever we gave her it threw up some other problem. and thats what got me thinking about this. in the end she let me know it was time to go, i know i tried very very hard for her, but it was her time. i didnt want her to die distressed and scared. we have her buried in the garden and my daughter and i made her a headstone with cement and glittery things. she loved glitter.

i dont blame you for your decision, i think you are doing the right thing for her, and thats the most important thing.

my heart goes out to you at this time, it really does hf
 Quoting: ~:*Winnie*:~



I had to put my dog down a couple of weeks ago. It was the same story back again and again for months to the vet for a new diagnosis and new pills then something else happening. In the end I felt I was torturing him and I loved him so much how could I? He stopped eating and drinking and could not keep anything down and I had to say goodbye. He was only 9 and my most precious companion but when the vet suggested IV fluids to treat his kidney failure I said no. He was down to 20 pounds from his healthy weight of 32 and was so miserable he could no longer enjoy his life. I have not stopped crying yet everyday, I miss him so.
My Take
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12/01/2009 04:25 PM
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It is truly obscene, this prolong-life-by-any-means tendency we have presently.

And it's selfish.

We have lost comprehension of the normal death process and its value and place in life. Turned it over to modern medicine and allowed them to villify it.
~:*Winnie*:~  (OP)

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12/01/2009 04:26 PM
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thanks for this post. I just brought my dog to the vet yesterday; she's 15, has had a good long life, and is now panting, bad hips, in pain and may have cancer.

I brought her home for a few days to try the painkillers and see how she does...but I know it my heart it's just time.

I did not take the vet up on her offer to do bloodwork, steroid treatments and chemo. I'd only be doing it for myself.

Right now, Ladybug is asleep at my feet, dreaming like a puppy. I'll miss her very much.



A Good veterinarian will know the difference between Keeping an animal alive for it's own benefit, and keeping it alive for the owner's benefit.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 831410


ahh and theres the point. you say a GOOD veterinarian, the vast majority have that preached and twisted out of them in college. they are NOT encouraged to work on behalf of the animal.
happy now?
Anonymous Coward
12/01/2009 04:29 PM
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* I loved him more than any man: After losing her dog, one writer wonders if she'll ever feel a love like it again
 Quoting: ~:*Winnie*:~



verysad



Mkay, I can't read anymore of this.
~:*Winnie*:~  (OP)

User ID: 660854
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12/01/2009 04:33 PM
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thanks for this post. I just brought my dog to the vet yesterday; she's 15, has had a good long life, and is now panting, bad hips, in pain and may have cancer.

I brought her home for a few days to try the painkillers and see how she does...but I know it my heart it's just time.

I did not take the vet up on her offer to do bloodwork, steroid treatments and chemo. I'd only be doing it for myself.

Right now, Ladybug is asleep at my feet, dreaming like a puppy. I'll miss her very much.


i went through something similar earlier this year. the vet found problem after problem and she ended up on so many tablets, it seemed that whatever we gave her it threw up some other problem. and thats what got me thinking about this. in the end she let me know it was time to go, i know i tried very very hard for her, but it was her time. i didnt want her to die distressed and scared. we have her buried in the garden and my daughter and i made her a headstone with cement and glittery things. she loved glitter.

i dont blame you for your decision, i think you are doing the right thing for her, and thats the most important thing.

my heart goes out to you at this time, it really does hf



I had to put my dog down a couple of weeks ago. It was the same story back again and again for months to the vet for a new diagnosis and new pills then something else happening. In the end I felt I was torturing him and I loved him so much how could I? He stopped eating and drinking and could not keep anything down and I had to say goodbye. He was only 9 and my most precious companion but when the vet suggested IV fluids to treat his kidney failure I said no. He was down to 20 pounds from his healthy weight of 32 and was so miserable he could no longer enjoy his life. I have not stopped crying yet everyday, I miss him so.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 145362


i am so sorry for you, i really am. its such a hard time i know. theres nothing i can say to ease the pain. if i could say something that made it better it would somehow negate your babys life and his suffering. as i mentioned my daughter and i made a headstone for our dog, she was only 11 too. it seemed far too early to lose her for us. but making something personal to her and to us somehow helped, it celebrated her life with us. i still say nite-nite to her every night. have you thought about commemorating his life in some way?
happy now?
~:*Winnie*:~  (OP)

User ID: 660854
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12/01/2009 04:58 PM
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same for people doctors.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 761652


i would imagine so.
happy now?
~:*Winnie*:~  (OP)

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12/01/2009 05:09 PM
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bump
happy now?
Anonymous Coward
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12/01/2009 05:09 PM
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BTW...it's veterinary...not vetinary.
~:*Winnie*:~  (OP)

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12/01/2009 05:13 PM
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ohh yeh oops!
happy now?
babsvet

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12/01/2009 05:56 PM
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Hi People,

As an equine vet. that practiced for 30 years on horses. I am afraid that I have to agree with Winnie. However, it is not quit that simple as the owners play a big part in their own fleecing. The main problem is that Medicine both human and Vet. is a Big Bussiness and both have very cozy realtionship with the drug Co. from the small practice all the way up to the Ivy League Univ. You could say everyone is in bed with one another. But that is true of just about every industry in this country and vets. are no different. The main problem is that peoples values and our societies values are sick. If we judge a persons worth on their appearance, their income, what kind of house they live in and who they hang out with then we are all part of the corruption that is causing the disintegration of our country. Believe me things have changed a great deal in this country since I grew up. It is all about materialism, status, power,control and money. In addition, our society has been corrupted by (TPTB) the Powers that Be, like the people who have controlled us and our families before us. We have all essentially been brainwashed into a sick existence and one that is killing ourselves, each other and the planet. The indigenous people knew how to co-exist in harmony with nature, us WASP and catholics and others don't seem to know how nor do we want to learn. That is why we have destroyed just about every indigenous culture on the face of the earth. We have to start to value honesty, truth, sincerity, etc. and not the superficial stuff or we will not make it. These are very serious times and everyone is going to be tested so lets pull together and start to value the real things. That's when your vet. will stop over charging you. When you respect him or her for the honest, truthful, caring animal lover they are. In other words we all have to change because our gods are false gods.
If we change ourselves and our values then everything will change with it.
I know because I have stood their and told people the honest to god truth and they looked at me like I had 3 heads because they had been lied to for so long and their belief system had been so corrupted that they did not know what the truth was or is. That goes for all of us so a little introspection is required here by us all.
babsvet
The process has begun
~:*Winnie*:~  (OP)

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12/01/2009 06:39 PM
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Hi People,

As an equine vet. that practiced for 30 years on horses. I am afraid that I have to agree with Winnie. However, it is not quit that simple as the owners play a big part in their own fleecing. The main problem is that Medicine both human and Vet. is a Big Bussiness and both have very cozy realtionship with the drug Co. from the small practice all the way up to the Ivy League Univ. You could say everyone is in bed with one another. But that is true of just about every industry in this country and vets. are no different. The main problem is that peoples values and our societies values are sick. If we judge a persons worth on their appearance, their income, what kind of house they live in and who they hang out with then we are all part of the corruption that is causing the disintegration of our country. Believe me things have changed a great deal in this country since I grew up. It is all about materialism, status, power,control and money. In addition, our society has been corrupted by (TPTB) the Powers that Be, like the people who have controlled us and our families before us. We have all essentially been brainwashed into a sick existence and one that is killing ourselves, each other and the planet. The indigenous people knew how to co-exist in harmony with nature, us WASP and catholics and others don't seem to know how nor do we want to learn. That is why we have destroyed just about every indigenous culture on the face of the earth. We have to start to value honesty, truth, sincerity, etc. and not the superficial stuff or we will not make it. These are very serious times and everyone is going to be tested so lets pull together and start to value the real things. That's when your vet. will stop over charging you. When you respect him or her for the honest, truthful, caring animal lover they are. In other words we all have to change because our gods are false gods.
If we change ourselves and our values then everything will change with it.
I know because I have stood their and told people the honest to god truth and they looked at me like I had 3 heads because they had been lied to for so long and their belief system had been so corrupted that they did not know what the truth was or is. That goes for all of us so a little introspection is required here by us all.
babsvet
 Quoting: babsvet

clappa

i so wish this would be true...
happy now?





GLP