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SHOCKING EXPOSE OF VETERINARY PRACTICES ~ TO FLEECE THEIR TRUSTING OWNERS

 
Anonymous Coward
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12/01/2009 06:56 PM
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Re: SHOCKING EXPOSE OF VETERINARY PRACTICES ~ TO FLEECE THEIR TRUSTING OWNERS
thanks for this post. I just brought my dog to the vet yesterday; she's 15, has had a good long life, and is now panting, bad hips, in pain and may have cancer.

I brought her home for a few days to try the painkillers and see how she does...but I know it my heart it's just time.

I did not take the vet up on her offer to do bloodwork, steroid treatments and chemo. I'd only be doing it for myself.

Right now, Ladybug is asleep at my feet, dreaming like a puppy. I'll miss her very much.



A Good veterinarian will know the difference between Keeping an animal alive for it's own benefit, and keeping it alive for the owner's benefit.


ahh and theres the point. you say a GOOD veterinarian, the vast majority have that preached and twisted out of them in college. they are NOT encouraged to work on behalf of the animal.
 Quoting: ~:*Winnie*:~


Then don't give the bad ones your business. It's called capitalism. Veterinarians currently pay over $150,000 to get an education that gets them a $40,000 per year job. Those numbers aren't exactly enticing the cream of the crop to pursue that field. You can get into any of the midwestern US veterinary programs with a C average right now, and the budget shortfalls are being offset by enrolling more students. It's killing the profession.
Anonymous Coward
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12/01/2009 07:05 PM
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Re: SHOCKING EXPOSE OF VETERINARY PRACTICES ~ TO FLEECE THEIR TRUSTING OWNERS
Running a veterinary practice is expensive and requires 24 hour cover by law.Vets have to buy buildings and equipment and the drugs for the animals,pay the salaries of all the people working in the practice out of the money they earn from the practice.

In the US, many would be wrong in assuming that vets offer 24 hour coverage. Pet's are sedated and left alone overnight in many offices, if not most.
Anonymous Coward
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12/01/2009 07:52 PM
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Re: SHOCKING EXPOSE OF VETERINARY PRACTICES ~ TO FLEECE THEIR TRUSTING OWNERS
Running a veterinary practice is expensive and requires 24 hour cover by law.Vets have to buy buildings and equipment and the drugs for the animals,pay the salaries of all the people working in the practice out of the money they earn from the practice.

In the US, many would be wrong in assuming that vets offer 24 hour coverage. Pet's are sedated and left alone overnight in many offices, if not most.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 830493


Very true in the U.S. lost a beloved when young and stupid. If the animal has a bad chest wound (car hit) make sure there is a vet, not an assistant, there all hours to re-inflate a lung etc...
Anonymous Coward
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12/01/2009 08:12 PM
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Re: SHOCKING EXPOSE OF VETERINARY PRACTICES ~ TO FLEECE THEIR TRUSTING OWNERS
This is an awesome article, Winnie, thanks for sharing it hugs

I know the vet wants to clean my cat's teeth, but they have to put him under and yes his teeth don't look great, but he has no issues with them and he's old - I keep saying no and they look at me like I'm horrible. I think it's more horrible to subject an old cat to that when he's had or is having no problems.

Another vet insisted that I not let my cat outside, but he kept getting bladder infections, so they wanted to put him on an anti-depressant - after a couple days of seeing my tough boy turn into something I didn't recognize - I threw away the pills and opened the door - no more bladder infections.

We have to be proactive with our pets, just like we have to be proactive with our own health.
Anonymous Coward
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12/01/2009 08:42 PM
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Re: SHOCKING EXPOSE OF VETERINARY PRACTICES ~ TO FLEECE THEIR TRUSTING OWNERS
This is a gut wrenching thread.

I have my horror stories too.

I just can't bear to post them.

I can tell you that there are really good, loving, caring vets out there as I know of one in Marietta Ga. but I also have found really money hungry greedy vets too here in New Mexico.

I reamed those money hungry greedy veta new a**hole too! but it doesn't do any good......my two pets don't even make a dent in their huge practice.

I now 'INTERVIEW' vets before I will comment my pets to them.

If their only focus is money they can kiss my royal ass.
Anonymous Coward
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12/01/2009 09:36 PM
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Re: SHOCKING EXPOSE OF VETERINARY PRACTICES ~ TO FLEECE THEIR TRUSTING OWNERS
bump
My Take
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12/01/2009 10:07 PM
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Re: SHOCKING EXPOSE OF VETERINARY PRACTICES ~ TO FLEECE THEIR TRUSTING OWNERS
I've actually had a vet berate me for allowing my katz to go outside! I understand the health concepts, yes. But good grief. Cats are made to be outdoor animals. All the kitties I've ever had would pine away and die if they couldn't do a little catting around outside.

Recently had a discussion with another vet who wanted me to give my cats pills for fleas. I told her they don't have fleas. And they don't. I plant fleabane all over in my yard and it has worked really well. And I comb them frequently to check for the hungry little critters.

Well, for preventative purposes she suggested. No thanks.
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12/01/2009 10:12 PM
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Re: SHOCKING EXPOSE OF VETERINARY PRACTICES ~ TO FLEECE THEIR TRUSTING OWNERS
Running a veterinary practice is expensive and requires 24 hour cover by law.Vets have to buy buildings and equipment and the drugs for the animals,pay the salaries of all the people working in the practice out of the money they earn from the practice.

In the US, many would be wrong in assuming that vets offer 24 hour coverage. Pet's are sedated and left alone overnight in many offices, if not most.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 830493


Absolutely untrue, and totally inflammatory. Go to your yellow pages and look up emergency veterinary care. I live in a rural town of 15,000 people and we have 2 emergency clinics within 30 minutes of my front door. If you live in a more rural area, then you'll know if your vet is working or not. All you have to do is pay attention.
Anonymous Coward
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12/01/2009 10:14 PM
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Re: SHOCKING EXPOSE OF VETERINARY PRACTICES ~ TO FLEECE THEIR TRUSTING OWNERS
This is a gut wrenching thread.

I have my horror stories too.

I just can't bear to post them.

I can tell you that there are really good, loving, caring vets out there as I know of one in Marietta Ga. but I also have found really money hungry greedy vets too here in New Mexico.

I reamed those money hungry greedy veta new a**hole too! but it doesn't do any good......my two pets don't even make a dent in their huge practice.

I now 'INTERVIEW' vets before I will comment my pets to them.

If their only focus is money they can kiss my royal ass.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 830846


That is EXCELLENT. Absolutely. You definitely need to interview before you have them work on your animals.
Anonymous Coward
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12/01/2009 10:18 PM
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Re: SHOCKING EXPOSE OF VETERINARY PRACTICES ~ TO FLEECE THEIR TRUSTING OWNERS
This is an awesome article, Winnie, thanks for sharing it hugs

I know the vet wants to clean my cat's teeth, but they have to put him under and yes his teeth don't look great, but he has no issues with them and he's old - I keep saying no and they look at me like I'm horrible. I think it's more horrible to subject an old cat to that when he's had or is having no problems.

Another vet insisted that I not let my cat outside, but he kept getting bladder infections, so they wanted to put him on an anti-depressant - after a couple days of seeing my tough boy turn into something I didn't recognize - I threw away the pills and opened the door - no more bladder infections.

We have to be proactive with our pets, just like we have to be proactive with our own health.
 Quoting: Turtles Know


That's fine, but have you actually looked at your cat's teeth? If they get bad enough, it'll start sneezing as the abscess swells and closes the nasal passages. Pets do get Gingivitis and it effects them worse than Humans, as the plaque makes the gums recede, the tooth loosens and will fall out. Then you'll be feeding your dog meat flavored applesauce at 2 bucks a can.
Anonymous Coward
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12/01/2009 10:19 PM
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Re: SHOCKING EXPOSE OF VETERINARY PRACTICES ~ TO FLEECE THEIR TRUSTING OWNERS
I have a story i would like to share but I just cant seem to write it. Its hurts too bad. sorry.
Anonymous Coward
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12/01/2009 10:40 PM
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Re: SHOCKING EXPOSE OF VETERINARY PRACTICES ~ TO FLEECE THEIR TRUSTING OWNERS
thanks for this post. I just brought my dog to the vet yesterday; she's 15, has had a good long life, and is now panting, bad hips, in pain and may have cancer.

I brought her home for a few days to try the painkillers and see how she does...but I know it my heart it's just time.

I did not take the vet up on her offer to do bloodwork, steroid treatments and chemo. I'd only be doing it for myself.

Right now, Ladybug is asleep at my feet, dreaming like a puppy. I'll miss her very much.


i went through something similar earlier this year. the vet found problem after problem and she ended up on so many tablets, it seemed that whatever we gave her it threw up some other problem. and thats what got me thinking about this. in the end she let me know it was time to go, i know i tried very very hard for her, but it was her time. i didnt want her to die distressed and scared. we have her buried in the garden and my daughter and i made her a headstone with cement and glittery things. she loved glitter.

i dont blame you for your decision, i think you are doing the right thing for her, and thats the most important thing.

my heart goes out to you at this time, it really does hf



I had to put my dog down a couple of weeks ago. It was the same story back again and again for months to the vet for a new diagnosis and new pills then something else happening. In the end I felt I was torturing him and I loved him so much how could I? He stopped eating and drinking and could not keep anything down and I had to say goodbye. He was only 9 and my most precious companion but when the vet suggested IV fluids to treat his kidney failure I said no. He was down to 20 pounds from his healthy weight of 32 and was so miserable he could no longer enjoy his life. I have not stopped crying yet everyday, I miss him so.


i am so sorry for you, i really am. its such a hard time i know. theres nothing i can say to ease the pain. if i could say something that made it better it would somehow negate your babys life and his suffering. as i mentioned my daughter and i made a headstone for our dog, she was only 11 too. it seemed far too early to lose her for us. but making something personal to her and to us somehow helped, it celebrated her life with us. i still say nite-nite to her every night. have you thought about commemorating his life in some way?
 Quoting: ~:*Winnie*:~


thanks Winne, I am working on a nice portrait of him to frame and my daughter and I plan on having a ceremony to spread his ashes in his favorite places when she is home on college break soon. I like your headstone idea but I don't own any property hence the portrait. You are kind.
Anonymous Coward
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12/01/2009 10:55 PM
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Re: SHOCKING EXPOSE OF VETERINARY PRACTICES ~ TO FLEECE THEIR TRUSTING OWNERS
Wow, thanks for posting this. I was an aspiring veterinarian, worked as a vet tech for 6 years. I finally decided not to pursue it, for many reasons. One thing that triggered my decision was an article about brain surgery on a parakeet.

First of all I must say that I'm an animal lover, and I totally understand the attachment we have to our pets. But for some reason, it occurred to me, that at the place where this surgery was first performed (in NYC) there are starving and homeless people everywhere, probably in the alley behind the veterinary hospital.

People totally project their psychoses onto their pets. I remember one Yorkie we treated, that was so obese it could no longer walk. We had to swim it everyday in the bathtub to keep up it's muscle tone. When the owners came to visit, they brought THE DOG a McDonald's hamburger and milkshake. I can still remember them standing there, with the cage door opened, offering the poor thing the straw, as though it could even drink out of that. Needless to say, the owners were obese themselves.

The human survival instinct is beyond our imagination. People, in the face of an extreme food shortage (let's say you haven't eaten in 2 weeks, and you're most likely not going to eat for 2 more weeks, for example) you would kill and eat your pets. This has been proven in many infamous cases. Let's get our priorities straight. I have a friend who swears she would jump in front of a bus to save her cat. I respectfully disagree. The human survival instinct is unconscious.

Anyway, I digress. Sure, go ahead and take a second out on your home to prolong Fido's life a few more months. But let me ask you, are you a meat eater? Is there a disconnect somewhere in your regard for animal life? Are you sure that you're not just projecting your own psychological problems and fears onto your pet?

I am guessing that most people put their pets through unnecessary treatments out of guilt. If there exists a treatment for your pet's ailment, even at a high cost, and you opt not to pursue that treatment solely because of the cost, then you are a cruel person; that's what they want you to think. And, since euthanasia in the world of human medicine is still largely taboo and misunderstood, we cannot in good conscience make that decision based on economics alone. There must be another reason, such as, "there is no hope left". Well, vets today will rarely tell you that.

One of the vets I worked for had, at any given time, $100,000 in outstanding bills that he was never going to see. People bring in hit-by-cars that don't belong to them, why should they have to pay? Wildlife, too. Crows, eagles, raccoons, etc. And of course the vet will treat them. What's he going to say, "No"? And at the same time, he's a small business owner, with bills to pay, employees to pay, provide healthcare for, and the drugs and equipment to run a veterinary clinic are the same quality, and cost the same amount, as in human medicine, with the major difference being that veterinary insurance is rarely used. Most people still pay out of pocket, and people don't want to pay a lot.

So, there is an enormous incentive for the veterinarian to charge other people for unnecessary services (such as this ludicrous explosion of veterinary dental cleanings) in order to pay the bills for those that don't pay at all. Veterinarians are not unscrupulous people. Veterinary medicine, unlike human medicine, is not a high paying occupation. Even though education costs and business costs are the same.

Veterinary medicine is like human medicine was 100 years ago. Remember Doc Baker from Little House on the Prairie? People used to pay him in chickens, and repairs to his wagon. Back then, doctors were true healers and humanitarians. They went to medical school to help people, not to be rich. Well, that's how veterinary medicine is today. Like it or not, it's on a kind of fucked up sliding scale where the rich clients are having to pay for the poor clients.
Anonymous Coward
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12/01/2009 10:57 PM
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Re: SHOCKING EXPOSE OF VETERINARY PRACTICES ~ TO FLEECE THEIR TRUSTING OWNERS
i know there are a lot of animal lovers here, so i thought you all might be interested to read what i already knew. or at least suspected.

Why I'm ashamed to be a vet: a shocking exposé of the profession that puts pets through 'painful and unnecessary treatments to fleece their trusting owners'



For eight years Matthew Watkinson worked as a vet. But are vets really the saints they are made out to be? Here, Matthew, 32, now an author, exposes the uncuddly truth about vets that every animal lover should read. . .
Matthew Watkinson says treating family pets has spawned a whole industry

Matthew Watkinson says treating family pets has spawned a whole industry

The greyhound's soulful eyes seemed to plead with me to help him. His thin tail tucked between his legs, he stood still with fear on the examination table as the posse of fellow veterinary students listened to the chief lecturer.

Aged 12, he had bone cancer in a hind leg and it was advanced, we were told. Looking at the dog, I imagined he'd had a good life. Obviously, from the condition of his brushed coat, and his muscled body, he had an owner who knew how to care for him.

As a student vet who in a year was to graduate to work in my own practice, I knew what I would recommend if I were this dog's owner - and that was a loving and peaceful death.

But putting the greyhound to sleep and out of his misery was not the correct answer, the lecturer told me quite sternly.

A humane death would not be the course of treatment offered to its owner. Well, at any rate, not yet. After all, didn't I realise the advances that had been made in veterinary medicine? There were 'options' that could extend this old dog's life.

No, instead, its leg was going to be amputated and then a course of chemotherapy would be tried to ensure that 'all was done to save the dog's life' - at a cost of £1,000 to £2,000, or even more.

I have no idea what the owner thought of this. But, as the majority of pet owners want to do the best by their beloved dog, I can only imagine he or she took this 'chief' vet's expensive advice to try to 'save' the pet.

Meanwhile, I remember pushing down the revulsion I felt about putting the dog through what we all knew would be punishing treatment that in all likelihood would not work.

And even if it did give that greyhound an extra year or so of life, how could anyone explain to it that the suffering was for a reason? That lying in a small cage, surgically maimed, and hooked up to a drip for weeks, perhaps months, would be 'worth it'.

Today I look back on that lecture and realise that already I had begun to question the role of vets in animal 'welfare'.

'I found myself so disgusted at the moneymaking practices I left the profession altogether'
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////​/////////////

The point is yes, we could treat this dog's cancer, but was it in the best interests of that dog? Morally, should we have even considered further treatment or was it all about making money?

Of course, back then I avoided becoming embroiled in ethics. I was just thrilled to be one of the lucky few to have made it into the most prestigious vet school in the country - London's Royal Veterinary College.

Having had a comprehensive school education, I went into the job because I was fascinated by biology and genuinely wanted to help animals. And although my parents had good jobs - my mother was a nurse and my father a radiographer - I was the first person in my family to go to university, and understandably my family was incredibly proud of my achievement.

So, despite the doubts already beginning to form in my mind, I ploughed on. A year after the greyhound incident I graduated and took my veterinary oath, which all vets swear to, promising 'to ensure the welfare of animals committed to my care'.

Back then, I had no concept that far from the saviours of animals they purport to be, the blame for much animal suffering in the UK can be laid so firmly at the door of vets.

I had no idea that I would ultimately be driven to confess that I am ashamed to be a vet and that, eight years after qualifying, I would find myself so disgusted at the moneymaking practices that I would leave the profession altogether.

Of course, not all vets deliberately set out to make as much money as they can out of treating animals. But money - not the welfare of the animal - is often at the forefront of the vet's mind.

Of course there are outright cowboys in any field and the veterinary profession is sadly no exception.

Today you will notice more and more practices have sprung up throughout the country - especially in those affluent areas where the middle-class residents treat their pets as part of their family.

One might imagine that because there are so many more vets that animals need more medical help than ever. But the truth is far simpler. A whole industry has arisen out of squeezing the most money out of treating family pets.
During the 'health check' that goes with a jab visit, it is amazing how many problems the vet might find

During the 'health check' that goes with a jab visit, it is amazing how many problems the vet might find

It is not unheard of for vets to Google a pet owner's home to see which area the family live in. Big house in a posh road - well, you can offer more treatment to that pet owner, of course. I never witnessed this in my practice, but I heard of it happening. Charge more for your services so a vaccination that costs a few pence becomes a £35 'consultation'. And that isn't all.

While the owner might believe he or she is only taking their cat for a vaccination (and I have no problem with sensible preventative healthcare) for the vet, this visit can be a way to make even more money out of a perfectly healthy animal.

During the 'health check' which accompanies the vaccination visit, it is amazing the potential 'problems' the vet might find.

So your vet discovers your cat has a seemingly innocuous chipped tooth? I have known of cat owners told that despite the fact their cat is perfectly fine - and frankly animals in the wild break their teeth all the time and do not need expensive dentistry work - that to remove the tooth is justified 'just in case' it later causes a problem.

Having a tooth removed, especially a canine tooth, is major surgery - costing upwards if £100 - and should only be done if the cat is suffering because of it.

But more often than not, a loving owner will trust their vet and sadly go along with surgery that is not only unnecessary but plain risky for a pet who does not need it. Similarly, I have known vets suggest doing an 'exploratory' operation on a cat just because it had been sick. But like humans, cats and dogs get sick from time to time. The best response is to wait and see, not offer a battery of blood tests and invasive operations.

Having allowed their pet to have such an operation, the owner when the pet recovers will put this down to the operation being a success. It is not: if nothing was found, your pet would have begun feeling better anyway. Possibly sooner.

Sadly, the best way to deal with many problems is not to treat at all. Small animals such as guinea pigs and rabbits should be put to sleep if they present with an illness that can't be easily rectified with a dose of antibiotics. Their lives should not be prolonged at all cost.


More...

* I loved him more than any man: After losing her dog, one writer wonders if she'll ever feel a love like it again

If your cat or dog gets cancer you should not, in my opinion, subject it to long, torturous treatment. Nor should cats that are run over and experience a complex injury or bladder problems - sadly an all-too-common feature of road accidents as the car catches the back of the cat as it tries to escape - endure lots of operations in the hope that the problems can be cured.

Even if they can be - eventually - I believe putting any animal through this is barbaric.

One problem is that overtreating pets has been made to look as if it is normal by programmes such as the BBC's Super Vets, last shown in 2007, where it was usual to subject animals that, frankly, should have been put to sleep to whatever it took to get them well. This is cruel as caging an animal for a long time is not, in my view, thinking of its 'welfare'.

Which brings me to another issue that helps vets to carry out these expensive and totally unnecessary procedures - pet insurance.

These days, pet insurance is pushed as a 'necessity'. Sit in any vet's surgery and you are left in no doubt as you survey the dozens of adverts for it that 'good' owners have it while 'bad' owners do not.

'However you look at it, pet insurance is simply a licence to print money'

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////​////


So unsurprisingly, the average middle-class family feels more comfortable having this insurance. They have medical insurance for their children, so it's only natural that they want the same for their family dog or cat. Insurance for a pet dog or cat costs on average from £60 to £250 a year. Worryingly, if you have pet insurance you can be sure your vet is more likely to offer your pet treatments - because your vet knows you won't be paying so you can afford it.

But, however you look at it, insurance is simply a licence to print money. Unfortunately, the only creatures insurance helps are vets. If you are a loving owner you will not want to put your pet through cruel, lengthy and costly procedures.

And as this is all insurers cover - they do not provide for any useful essentials such as neutering, vaccinations or teeth cleaning - there is no point to them.

But vets aren't only guilty of treating animals when there is no problem. Sadly they are guilty of creating problems in the first place. Take bulldogs. They have been hideously bred to have a characteristic collapsed face. This restricts breathing and stops them panting properly.

Ridiculous as it may seem, they have also created an animal that can't breathe fast enough to have sex. So a bulldog must be artificially inseminated by a vet using a general anaesthetic.

Once pregnant, the bulldog faces another dreadful side effect, again caused by breeding. Bulldogs have such a small pelvis that most are unable to give birth naturally. So 90 per cent of bulldogs require a Caesarean.

If the vet were truly putting the animal first, he would refuse to inseminate a bulldog in the first place. Instead, to ensure the welfare of the bulldog, vets should be insisting that pregnancies only occur in bulldogs that can mate naturally.

But, of course, they won't say that or refuse the breeder's wishes - after all, as a vet you are making money out of all of these medical procedures. An insemination costs around £80 to £300 depending on the exact procedure and a Caesarean £500.


Vets have created their own market

One of the reasons there are so many vets now is that vets have created their own market.

I find it outrageous that, given their role, any vet criticises Cruft's for exhibiting these dog breeds. After all, it is the vets themselves who have aided and abetted these atrocities.

And this practice certainly isn't confined to bulldogs. We have daschunds bred with elongated spines so they look 'attractive' for their breed. But these sausage dogs are prone to slipped discs and back problems which, in turn, makes more money for vets who do many operations a year to 'help' these issues (most of which do not work and cause more suffering to the dog.)

We have cats that can't breathe because of their overly flat noses and weep constantly from eyes that are too large, other cats and dogs without fur that can't go out in the sunshine as they will burn.

The current fashionable craze for miniature dogs is also damaging. These dogs are prized on their tininess - so the smallest dogs are chosen but in reality these are the runts of the litter that used to be allowed to die as they were so weak.

In turn vets are simply creating weaker animals. They are going against the force of nature, Charles Darwin's natural selection. And because weaker animals are surviving they need more medical care from vets who force them to survive.

This is great news for vets and the reason for their proliferation. But surely not for animal welfare, which they pledged, when they took their veterinary oath, to put first.

So where does the loving pet owner stand in all this?

Common sense must prevail. A loving pet owner does not humanise their cat or dog but realises it is an animal.

The loving owner does not want to maximise their pet's life at any cost but puts their animal's welfare first.

Do not fear the death of your pet when the time comes. Instead, embrace it and ensure your pet has a good death in the same way you gave it a good life.

[link to www.dailymail.co.uk]
 Quoting: ~:*Winnie*:~



THIS IS A BUSINESS, JUST LIEK HEALTHCARE. JUST LIKE DOCTORS THEY WILL PRESCRIBE DRUGS FOR PROFIT, TO GET U HOOKED OR TO F U UP. S HITTY SITUATION
Anonymous Coward
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12/01/2009 11:03 PM
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Re: SHOCKING EXPOSE OF VETERINARY PRACTICES ~ TO FLEECE THEIR TRUSTING OWNERS
The first thing I would look at in choosing a veterinarian is the surgury area. If you see a jar full of sutures (Stitches) RUN! That means they re-use them. Ask about sterile procedure, you don't want a guy doing bare-handed surgery on your pet. Ask if they have an autoclave, if they don't they're wet sterilizing and it's ineffective.

If any veterinarian runs down his competition, don't go back. The one who runs down the other guy is usually the inferior Doctor.

Ask questions, use your head, you'll find a good vet. The best Doctor is seldom the cheapest.
Anonymous Coward
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12/01/2009 11:06 PM
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Re: SHOCKING EXPOSE OF VETERINARY PRACTICES ~ TO FLEECE THEIR TRUSTING OWNERS
Caught 3 cats in my trap past two nights. two salt n peppers and a charcoal gray. baited with thanksgiving leftovers. black n white bastard had the nerve to growl at me so i hosed him down just like a cartoon he just stood there facing me as i hosed his face lmao!
Anonymous Coward
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12/01/2009 11:07 PM
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Re: SHOCKING EXPOSE OF VETERINARY PRACTICES ~ TO FLEECE THEIR TRUSTING OWNERS
The first thing I would look at in choosing a veterinarian is the surgury area. If you see a jar full of sutures (Stitches) RUN! That means they re-use them. Ask about sterile procedure, you don't want a guy doing bare-handed surgery on your pet. Ask if they have an autoclave, if they don't they're wet sterilizing and it's ineffective.

If any veterinarian runs down his competition, don't go back. The one who runs down the other guy is usually the inferior Doctor.

Ask questions, use your head, you'll find a good vet. The best Doctor is seldom the cheapest.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 721505



Where do you live, Tijuana? That's crazy. What you want to see is a BUSY veterinary clinic. If it's empty, that's a bad sign.
Anonymous Coward
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12/01/2009 11:29 PM
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Re: SHOCKING EXPOSE OF VETERINARY PRACTICES ~ TO FLEECE THEIR TRUSTING OWNERS
Wow, thanks for posting this. I was an aspiring veterinarian, worked as a vet tech for 6 years. I finally decided not to pursue it, for many reasons. One thing that triggered my decision was an article about brain surgery on a parakeet.

First of all I must say that I'm an animal lover, and I totally understand the attachment we have to our pets. But for some reason, it occurred to me, that at the place where this surgery was first performed (in NYC) there are starving and homeless people everywhere, probably in the alley behind the veterinary hospital.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 774263


Injustice occurs in all sorts of ways, this is one of them.




People totally project their psychoses onto their pets. I remember one Yorkie we treated, that was so obese it could no longer walk. We had to swim it everyday in the bathtub to keep up it's muscle tone. When the owners came to visit, they brought THE DOG a McDonald's hamburger and milkshake. I can still remember them standing there, with the cage door opened, offering the poor thing the straw, as though it could even drink out of that. Needless to say, the owners were obese themselves.



{Snip}


I am guessing that most people put their pets through unnecessary treatments out of guilt. If there exists a treatment for your pet's ailment, even at a high cost, and you opt not to pursue that treatment solely because of the cost, then you are a cruel person; that's what they want you to think. And, since euthanasia in the world of human medicine is still largely taboo and misunderstood, we cannot in good conscience make that decision based on economics alone. There must be another reason, such as, "there is no hope left". Well, vets today will rarely tell you that.



Get out of the city. Meet a real Vet.



One of the vets I worked for had, at any given time, $100,000 in outstanding bills that he was never going to see. People bring in hit-by-cars that don't belong to them, why should they have to pay? Wildlife, too. Crows, eagles, raccoons, etc. And of course the vet will treat them. What's he going to say, "No"? And at the same time, he's a small business owner, with bills to pay, employees to pay, provide healthcare for, and the drugs and equipment to run a veterinary clinic are the same quality, and cost the same amount, as in human medicine, with the major difference being that veterinary insurance is rarely used. Most people still pay out of pocket, and people don't want to pay a lot.


Yes, he says no. Call a GAME WARDEN to deal with wild animals. By picking up a WILD ANIMAL and transporting to you veterinarian you are putting BOTH YOUR LIFE AND HIS AT RISK.

Reminds me of one idiot that picked up a baby duck up by the lake after watching it for 15 minutes and brought it to the clinic. I gave her a talk I was given in first grade - Don't pick up baby birds, or their mama's won't take them back. She sentenced the duck to death by picking it up.

You can't feed your kids on accounts receivable. I require emergencies to be current clients in good standing with their bills. Care is a two way street, if you don't care enough about me to have me do your routine work, why should I give up Christmas Morning with my kids when your 10 year old dog, that I haven't seen since it was 6 weeks old, eats a large bowl of Christmas Candy.



So, there is an enormous incentive for the veterinarian to charge other people for unnecessary services (such as this ludicrous explosion of veterinary dental cleanings) in order to pay the bills for those that don't pay at all. Veterinarians are not unscrupulous people. Veterinary medicine, unlike human medicine, is not a high paying occupation. Even though education costs and business costs are the same.



Look at your animal's teeth. If they look dirty to you, have them cleaned. It's not that hard to tell. You can determine if it's necessary. Just read my response to TK (above) with regards to how bad plaque can get.



Veterinary medicine is like human medicine was 100 years ago. Remember Doc Baker from Little House on the Prairie? People used to pay him in chickens, and repairs to his wagon. Back then, doctors were true healers and humanitarians. They went to medical school to help people, not to be rich. Well, that's how veterinary medicine is today. Like it or not, it's on a kind of fucked up sliding scale where the rich clients are having to pay for the poor clients.


Never been paid in Chickens lol

I have been paid in Dogs.
I have been paid in Beef.

Same advice - shop around for a vet. I'm 60 miles outside of a metropolitan area, offer competetive care at 1/2 to 2/3 the price as those in the big city. A 40 - 60 minute drive could save you cash. Do not just go for the lower pricing, shop the doctor. Laser surgery, bloodwork, all the other points I've made.

Owning a pet is not free. There are a lot of people that own them that can't afford it.
Anonymous Coward
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12/01/2009 11:35 PM
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Re: SHOCKING EXPOSE OF VETERINARY PRACTICES ~ TO FLEECE THEIR TRUSTING OWNERS
Where do you live, Tijuana? That's crazy. What you want to see is a BUSY veterinary clinic. If it's empty, that's a bad sign.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 774263


So, essentially, you're guaging the guys skill on how much he charges for Rabies Vaccine. Go to the place with

"Rabies Vaccine - $9.00"

With a full parking lot.

Most competent Veterinary Hospitals perform Surgery in the morning and see appointments in the afternoon. So, the parking lot will be pretty empty until 1:00. Your theory is simple, yet ineffective. BUT if you'd interviewed the doctor, you'd know that.
Anonymous Coward
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12/01/2009 11:38 PM
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Re: SHOCKING EXPOSE OF VETERINARY PRACTICES ~ TO FLEECE THEIR TRUSTING OWNERS
Where do you live, Tijuana? That's crazy. What you want to see is a BUSY veterinary clinic. If it's empty, that's a bad sign.


So, essentially, you're guaging the guys skill on how much he charges for Rabies Vaccine. Go to the place with

"Rabies Vaccine - $9.00"

With a full parking lot.

Most competent Veterinary Hospitals perform Surgery in the morning and see appointments in the afternoon. So, the parking lot will be pretty empty until 1:00. Your theory is simple, yet ineffective. BUT if you'd interviewed the doctor, you'd know that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 721505


Additionally, Some veterinarians actually respect their clients time, so they will be efficient in scheduling, so they don't consistently have a waiting room full of people. As a rule, a well run hospital will never have more than 1 or 2 people in the lobby waiting to see a doctor.
Dugech
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12/01/2009 11:38 PM
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Re: SHOCKING EXPOSE OF VETERINARY PRACTICES ~ TO FLEECE THEIR TRUSTING OWNERS
We had an incident happen years ago. We had a chihuahua that got hit by a truck, how she survived i'll never know, but we took her to the vet. They wanted $300 to fix her, now this was 30 years ago so that was a lot of money then. I couldn't afford that so I told them to just put her to sleep. My daughter was about 8 at the time and was crushed by this. She got up the next morning and walked to the vets with a handful of flowers to give to the dog before she was put to sleep.
Then the vet had a change of heart and suddenly all that was wrong with the dog was a broken leg. Then put a cast on it and charged me $50. The dog never had another problem.
These people are greedy bloodsuckers just like other docs....and lawyers.
Anonymous Coward
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12/01/2009 11:50 PM
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Re: SHOCKING EXPOSE OF VETERINARY PRACTICES ~ TO FLEECE THEIR TRUSTING OWNERS
We had an incident happen years ago. We had a chihuahua that got hit by a truck, how she survived i'll never know, but we took her to the vet. They wanted $300 to fix her, now this was 30 years ago so that was a lot of money then. I couldn't afford that so I told them to just put her to sleep. My daughter was about 8 at the time and was crushed by this. She got up the next morning and walked to the vets with a handful of flowers to give to the dog before she was put to sleep.
Then the vet had a change of heart and suddenly all that was wrong with the dog was a broken leg. Then put a cast on it and charged me $50. The dog never had another problem.
These people are greedy bloodsuckers just like other docs....and lawyers.
 Quoting: Dugech 831691


Geez, a whole lot of negative nellies in here. One negative experience and you form an opinion about an entire profession.

You let lost control of your dog long enough for it to get hit by a truck and you gripe about the guy you took it to?

You said it yourself - how she survived, I'll never know, which would indicate to me that it looked pretty bad. Once the dog got over being shocky, the doc was probably able to more accurately diagnose the damage.

Do you realize the advances in Anesthesia alone over the last 30 years? Even an Xray back then took a half hour as opposed to 5 minutes now (and I don't have digital, like the big boys).

This is a Newton's 4th Law thread.

Newton's 4th law is "No matter what happens, People will Bitch!"
Anonymous Coward
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12/01/2009 11:54 PM
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Re: SHOCKING EXPOSE OF VETERINARY PRACTICES ~ TO FLEECE THEIR TRUSTING OWNERS
thanks for this post. I just brought my dog to the vet yesterday; she's 15, has had a good long life, and is now panting, bad hips, in pain and may have cancer.

I brought her home for a few days to try the painkillers and see how she does...but I know it my heart it's just time.

I did not take the vet up on her offer to do bloodwork, steroid treatments and chemo. I'd only be doing it for myself.

Right now, Ladybug is asleep at my feet, dreaming like a puppy. I'll miss her very much.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 752672


I'm another MMS supporter. Your dog has lived a rich life at fifteen yrs! Bless you for taking care, to bring this about.
Something to think about....If you could give your dog a few more months or another year with less pain, for less than the cost of the vet visit, would you try it? Certainly! Even if your baby passes on, wouldn't you feel better seeing her acting like a puppy once in a while? I hope I'm not giving too much credit to this product, but that is what has happened with my little one. One drop per 25lbs, easy to give. I was also feeding it to my other dog for a different issue, with a dropper. She got tired of that, nosing the bowl, lol. All I can say is maybe she KNEW her body needed this.
Anonymous Coward
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12/02/2009 12:10 AM
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Re: SHOCKING EXPOSE OF VETERINARY PRACTICES ~ TO FLEECE THEIR TRUSTING OWNERS
Running a veterinary practice is expensive and requires 24 hour cover by law.Vets have to buy buildings and equipment and the drugs for the animals,pay the salaries of all the people working in the practice out of the money they earn from the practice.

In the US, many would be wrong in assuming that vets offer 24 hour coverage. Pet's are sedated and left alone overnight in many offices, if not most.


Absolutely untrue, and totally inflammatory. Go to your yellow pages and look up emergency veterinary care. I live in a rural town of 15,000 people and we have 2 emergency clinics within 30 minutes of my front door. If you live in a more rural area, then you'll know if your vet is working or not. All you have to do is pay attention.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 721505



I hate to tell you, this is not untrue in many cases. We has a female garage dog in the vet overnight for complications after being spayed. She was taken in on a Thanksgiving Eve, and hemorrhaged during the night, and NO staff was there. Supposed to be, yes. This vet was on-call also for several other vets that night, although I will never know if anyone else lost their pets overnight.

I do know our present vet is often working all night through the morning doing surgeries. I know just not to go there early in the day if I don't want to wait!
Anonymous Coward
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12/02/2009 12:15 AM
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Re: SHOCKING EXPOSE OF VETERINARY PRACTICES ~ TO FLEECE THEIR TRUSTING OWNERS
thanks for this post. I just brought my dog to the vet yesterday; she's 15, has had a good long life, and is now panting, bad hips, in pain and may have cancer.

I brought her home for a few days to try the painkillers and see how she does...but I know it my heart it's just time.

I did not take the vet up on her offer to do bloodwork, steroid treatments and chemo. I'd only be doing it for myself.

Right now, Ladybug is asleep at my feet, dreaming like a puppy. I'll miss her very much.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 752672

It is the hardest thing in the whole world. My cat died at a very advanced age, I wish I had been a stronger person and taken her to be put down about a week or so before she died on her own - but I just couldn't do it.....denial and hoping that she would get better. How dumb is that.
Anonymous Coward
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12/02/2009 12:20 AM
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Re: SHOCKING EXPOSE OF VETERINARY PRACTICES ~ TO FLEECE THEIR TRUSTING OWNERS
Caught 3 cats in my trap past two nights. two salt n peppers and a charcoal gray. baited with thanksgiving leftovers. black n white bastard had the nerve to growl at me so i hosed him down just like a cartoon he just stood there facing me as i hosed his face lmao!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 831669

What goes around comes around. You'll get yours!
Anonymous Coward
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12/02/2009 12:21 AM
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Re: SHOCKING EXPOSE OF VETERINARY PRACTICES ~ TO FLEECE THEIR TRUSTING OWNERS
They aren't all greedy. Where I live in Illinois, our vets know that people aren't going to pay a high price and always give us a fair option.
~:*Winnie*:~  (OP)

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12/02/2009 04:45 AM
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Re: SHOCKING EXPOSE OF VETERINARY PRACTICES ~ TO FLEECE THEIR TRUSTING OWNERS
I have a story i would like to share but I just cant seem to write it. Its hurts too bad. sorry.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 826643

hugs
its ok, i understand that pain. one day you will feel like sharing, and that will be right for you. until then you need to let yourself heal a little. hf
happy now?
~:*Winnie*:~  (OP)

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12/02/2009 04:46 AM
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Re: SHOCKING EXPOSE OF VETERINARY PRACTICES ~ TO FLEECE THEIR TRUSTING OWNERS
thanks for this post. I just brought my dog to the vet yesterday; she's 15, has had a good long life, and is now panting, bad hips, in pain and may have cancer.

I brought her home for a few days to try the painkillers and see how she does...but I know it my heart it's just time.

I did not take the vet up on her offer to do bloodwork, steroid treatments and chemo. I'd only be doing it for myself.

Right now, Ladybug is asleep at my feet, dreaming like a puppy. I'll miss her very much.

It is the hardest thing in the whole world. My cat died at a very advanced age, I wish I had been a stronger person and taken her to be put down about a week or so before she died on her own - but I just couldn't do it.....denial and hoping that she would get better. How dumb is that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 784308


yep, done that too.
happy now?
~:*Winnie*:~  (OP)

User ID: 660854
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12/02/2009 05:19 AM
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Re: SHOCKING EXPOSE OF VETERINARY PRACTICES ~ TO FLEECE THEIR TRUSTING OWNERS
This is an awesome article, Winnie, thanks for sharing it hugs

I know the vet wants to clean my cat's teeth, but they have to put him under and yes his teeth don't look great, but he has no issues with them and he's old - I keep saying no and they look at me like I'm horrible. I think it's more horrible to subject an old cat to that when he's had or is having no problems.

Another vet insisted that I not let my cat outside, but he kept getting bladder infections, so they wanted to put him on an anti-depressant - after a couple days of seeing my tough boy turn into something I didn't recognize - I threw away the pills and opened the door - no more bladder infections.

We have to be proactive with our pets, just like we have to be proactive with our own health.
 Quoting: Turtles Know


thanks Turtles flowas

awww bless him. i cant believe they put a cat on anti-depressants - wait, oh yeh i can.

yes we do have to be proactive with them for sure, and we need to know better when they are telling us something is wrong. are your cats teeth stopping him from eating? is he in pain? if the answer is no, then maybe leave it til its a problem. at 12 - though hes not really old - he is getting on and we all know the risks of anesthetics. then again, is it better to do it now in a preventative way rather than in a couple of years time when its worse and hes older? oh lord, this is how they get us isnt it? hahaha i'm having an argument with myself here!!
happy now?





GLP