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Wow! Saudis 'in a panic mode' as Shi'ite rebels move North from Yemen

 
Anastasia Slaymaker

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12/08/2009 09:42 PM
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Re: Wow! Saudis 'in a panic mode' as Shi'ite rebels move North from Yemen
I don't know if this is related or not, but did they use the student day protest and the shutting down of foreign media as an opportunity to make this move?
Anonymous Coward
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12/08/2009 10:17 PM
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Re: Wow! Saudis 'in a panic mode' as Shi'ite rebels move North from Yemen
I must repeat. The only way you can win a war against insurgants is NOT BY CARPET BOMBING or an bombing from the air at all. It takes massive amounts of troops on the ground numbering in the millions.

By immediately evacuating all allied forces from the entire region and deploying B-2 bomber to carry out strategic, tactical airstrikes using neutron bombs to engage and neutralise large entire populations of areas containing insurgents.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 836082


Neutron bombs?! Are you nuts?
:)
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12/08/2009 10:29 PM
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Re: Wow! Saudis 'in a panic mode' as Shi'ite rebels move North from Yemen
Iran is a busy little bee.



Yes, they certainly are. And so much for the peaceful landscape if only the US and Israel would not interfere. It's going to be hard to blame this muslim infighting on others the way they always try to do.
 Quoting: Bluebird


They're not the only ones:


"The countries are further divided by political ideologies and governance. The philosophy of the Islamic Republic explicitly rejects the kinds of monarchical regimes seen in Saudi Arabia and other Arab states, legitimates the authority of the Iranian clerical elite, and incor-porates quasi-democratic institutions. For their part, the rule of the al-Saud rests on their claim to custodianship of the Islamic holy sites in Mecca and Medina, dynastic privilege, a symbiotic but ultimately dominant relationship with the Saudi clerical class, and a celebration of the state-building achievements of Ibn Saud. Energy differences are
a third source of tension. Whereas Saudi Arabia can afford to take a long-term view of the global oil market and has incentives to moderate prices, Iran is compelled by its smaller oil reserves and larger population to focus on high prices in the short term.

Together, these factors along with the well-known sectarian
and ethnic fissures that divide the Saudi and Iranian populations would seem to predispose the two countries toward chronic hostility. Regional and Western commentators have warned of a Saudi-Iranian proxy confict engulfng the region or a return to the ideological Cold War that marked the bilateral relationship after the 1979 Iranian
Revolution.

Attempting to capitalize on the sources of enmity between the two states, the United States has thus far adopted a policy that tacitly endorses Saudi Arabia as an Arab
balancer against Iran. This approach is based on the idea that the Sunni-Shia divide and other structural tensions naturally place Arab Gulf countries on one side of the equation and Iran on the other. The hope is that a bloc of moderate Arab states, led by Saudi Arabia and sponsored by the United States, can check Iranian influence in the region." [link to www.rand.org]

I guess as long as they're our repressive Islamic regime (with oil) it's all right then and it's not like they're after nukes, annoying their neighbours or supporting terrorism right?

Oh, wait...



Regional tensions

Saudi Arabia’s relations with its smaller neighbors have been difficult on occasion, even with the fellow monarchies of the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC). Qataris and Saudis clashed over a disputed border post in September 1992, leaving two dead. Qatar boycotted several GCC meetings after the skirmish. Qatar and Saudi Arabia were also at odds over the civil war in Yemen in 1994 (Jane's Intelligence Review, August 1994).

In Yemen, victorious northern forces accused the Saudis of sending arms, money and mercenaries to breakaway southern forces. Saudi Arabia tried, and failed, to conquer Yemen, which lies on its southern border, during its consolidation of the Kingdom in the 1930s.

James Wyllie of the University of Aberdeen suggested in 1992 that "Yemeni democracy presents a sharp and embarrassing contrast to Saudi Arabia's deep-seated political conservatism (Jane's Intelligence Review, June 1992). Yemen's 1993 elections, in which women were allowed to vote, were the first ever held on the Arabian peninsula.

Saudi Arabia expelled between 500,000 and 800,000 Yemenis in 1990 and 1991 to punish Yemen for its opposition to the war against Iraq.

Concerns about proliferation: nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles

The Saudi inclination to buy security may have included attempts to acquire nuclear weapons, according to a Saudi defector. Mohammed Khilewi, first secretary at the Saudi mission to the United Nations until July 1994, said that the Saudis have sought a bomb since 1975. According to Khilewi, the Saudis sought to buy nuclear reactors from China, supported Pakistan's nuclear program, and contributed $5 billion to Iraq's nuclear weapons program between 1985 and 1990. If true, these actions would violate Saudi commitments under the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty, which Saudi Arabia signed in 1988 to ease concern over their purchase of long-range Chinese ballistic missiles.

While the U.S. government vocally opposes the development or procurement of ballistic missiles by non-allies, it has been very quiet about the fact that Saudi Arabia possesses the longest-range ballistic missiles of any developing country. In February/March 1988, it was revealed that the Saudi regime had bought an estimated fifty CSS-2 missiles from China. The missiles can travel a distance of more than 1,500 miles and deliver a payload of over 4,000 lbs.

The Saudis have also been accused of retransferring U.S. military equipment or technology without U.S. approval in violation of obligations under the Arms Export Control Act. The Saudis allegedly gave Iraq 1,500 U.S. 2,000-pound bombs during the 1980-88 Iran-Iraq War (Los Angeles Times, 14 September 1992). "Inadvertent" transfers of bombs and vehicles to Syria and Bangladesh during the Gulf War have also been reported (Arms Control Today, May 1992). Another "inadvertent" transfer almost took place when an asylum-seeking Saudi F-15 pilot flew his aircraft to Sudan in November 1990. The plane was returned (Washington Post, 15 November 1990).

Support for international terrorism

Mohammed Khilewi, who accused the Saudis of trying to buy access to a nuclear weapon, also says Saudi Arabia has supported terrorism, and has spied on Jewish-American groups and on U.S. military installations. However, the State deparment has found no evidence of official Saudi support for terrorism.

In a June 1994 Congressional hearing, the State Department said:

Some Saudi citizens probably provide funds to HAMAS and other radical Palestinian groups throughout the region, as well as to extremist elements in Somalia, Sudan, and Yemen. Private Saudi benefactors also sponsor paramilitary training for radial Islamists from many countries in Afghanistan, Yemen and Sudan. The State Department has no evidence that the Government of Saudi Arabia sponsors these activities.

In its yearly report, Patterns of Global Terrorism 1996, the State Department maintains this view and says that money from private Saudi citizens flows chiefly to two groups, HAMAS and HUA (the Harakut ul-Ansar, a Pakistani group that operates in the Kashmir region).

Saudi financier Osama Bin Ladin is reportedly a major bank-roller of terrorists and is said to want to rid Saudi Arabia of American forces. He is believed to be in Afghanistan under the protection of the fundamentalist Muslim Taleban militia. Saudi Arabia revoked his citizenship in 1994.

While the Saudi government may not be directly supporting terrorist groups, it has not been very cooperative in arresting wanted terrorists. In April 1995, the Saudi government prevented U.S. officers from arresting Imad Mughniyah for his reputed roles in the 1983 car-bombing that killed 241 U.S. troops in Lebanon and for a 1985 TWA hijacking in which one American died. U.S. law officials--who were acting on a last-minute tip by an unnamed informant--were on route to the Jeddah airport to seize Mughinyah during a stop over of a Middle East Airlines flight. However, the Saudi government denied permission for the U.S. plane to land. (Washington Post, 22 April 1995) The U.S. government issued a protest, but the Saudi government said that it could not permit allow a foreign government to arrest a foreign citizen on its soil (Washington Times, 24 April 1995). [link to www.fas.org]


Saudi Arabia Special Weapons

Saudi Arabia does not have weapons of mass destruction. It did, however, buy long-range CSS-2 ballistic missiles from China in 1988. More recently, Saudi officials have discussed the procurement of new Pakistani intermediate-range missiles capable of carrying nuclear warheads. Some concern remains that Saudi Arabia, like its neighbors, may be seeking to acquire nuclear weapons, apparently by purchase rather than indigenous development. While there is no direct evidence that Saudi Arabia has chosen a nuclear option, the Saudis have in place a foundation for building a nuclear deterrent.

Saudi Arabia first opened a nuclear research center in the desert military complex at Al-Suleiyel, near Al-Kharj, in 1975. Saudi Arabia reportedly offered to pay for reconstruction of the Osirak-reactor, destructed by Israel on 06 June 1981. By at least 1985 Iraqi and Saudi military and nuclear experts were co-operating closely. Saudi nuclear scientists were sent to Baghdad for months of training.

In late June 1994 Muhammad Khilewi, the second-in-command of the Saudi mission to the United Nations, abandoned his UN post to join the opposition. After defecting, Mr. Khilewi, who was denied federal protection, went into hiding, fearing for his life. He has tried to distribute more than 10,000 documents he obtained from the Saudi Arabian Embassy.

Khilewi produced documents for the London Sunday Times that supported his charge that the Saudi government had paid up to five billion dollars from the Saudi treasury for Saddam Hussein to build a nuclear weapon. Between 1985 and 1990, up to the time Saddam invaded Kuwait, the payments were made on condition that some of the bombs, should the project succeed, be transferred to the Saudi arsenal. Khilewi cache included transcripts of a secret desert meeting between Saudi and Iraqi military teams a year before the invasion of Kuwait. The transcrips depicts the Saudis funding the nuclear program and handing over specialised equipment that Iraq could not have obtained elsewhere.

What Khilewi did not know was that the Fahd-Saddam nuclear project was also a closely held secret in Washington. According to a former high-ranking American diplomat, the CIA was fully apprised. The funding stopped only at the outbreak of the Gulf War in 1991.

The defector's documents also showed that Riyadh had paid for Pakistan's bomb project and signed a pact that if Saudi Arabia were attacked with nuclear weapons, Pakistan would respond against the aggressor with its own nuclear arsenal.

Khilewi's claims of possessing damning evidence against Saudi Arabia were met with some skepticism in the US Congress.

During Mr Nawaz Sharif’s tenure as prime minister, Saudi Arabia appears to have begun funding Pakistan’s nuclear and missile programs. The North Korean missiles ("red missiles painted green") traded for Pakistani nuclear know-how in the late 1990s took place at a time when the Pakistani economy was in shambles. Saudi Arabia appears to have bailed Pakistan out of this financial crisis.

Following Pakistan's nuclear weapons tests in May 1999, Saudi authorities denied the speculation about any possible cooperation between Pakistan and Saudi Arabia in the nuclear field. Saudi Arabia's second deputy prime minister, defense and aviation minister and inspector general, Prince Sultan Bin Abd al-Alziz, denied reports of Saudi attempts to acquire nuclear arms from Pakistan. Concerns about Saudi plans to buy nuclear weapons were raised after Prince Sultan toured Pakistan's secret nuclear facilities in May 1999. The prince toured the Kahuta uranium enrichment plant and an adjacent factory where the Ghauri missile is assembled with Pakistani prime minister Nawaz Sharif and was briefed by A.Q. Khan, the father of Pakistan's atom bomb. The site is so secret that former Pakistani Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto said she was not allowed to go to there during her tenure in office.

In August 1999 Prince Sultan bin Abdul Aziz denied viewing secret sites within the plant and insisted that Saudi Arabia, as a signatory of the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, is seeking a region free of nuclear weapons.

Officials from the UAE had also visited Kahuta during the summer of 1999. Prince Sultan's visit to Kahuta was thought to be related to possible purchase of Pakistan's new medium-range Ghauri missile.

The Islamabad-Riyadh close cooperation was evident shortly after Pakistan’s nuclear tests , when Saudi Prince Sultan visited Pakistan and toured the uranium-enrichment plant and missile-production facilities at Kahuta.

Dr Abdul Qadeer Khan, the mastermind behind the nuclear explosions in Pakistan, visited Riyadh to attend the November 1999 symposium on Information Sources on the Islamic World at King Faisal Hall. Dr Saleh Al-Athel, president of King Abdul Aziz City for Science and Technology (KACST), visited Pakistan in the second week of November 1999 to work out the details for cooperation in the fields of engineering, electronics and computer sciences. The two sides explored possibilities of mutual cooperation for peaceful use of nuclear energy applications in the field of agriculture and genetic engineering.

After Gen. Pervez Musharraf ousted Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif in a bloodless coup on 12 October 1999, his first foreign tour was to Saudi Arabia. Nawaz Sharif, his younger brother and their families are living in Saudi Arabia after a deal between General Musharraf and Mr Sharif in which Riyadh had played a key role.

Press reports have speculated that China has approached the Saudis with offers to sell modern missile systems. The 600-km range CSS-6 and 1800-km range CSS-5 solid-fueled missiles have been mentioned.

Saudi Arabia is examining the prospect of raising the level of its strategic relations with Pakistan. The Saudis have accelerated talks with Islamabad for the purchase of Pakistani weapons as well as joint military and strategic projects. Riyad also seeks to exploit Pakistani's expertise in missiles and weapons of mass destruction. Pakistan and Saudi Arabia have already developed an array of defense and military relations. But the discussions in Riyad to expand strategic ties reflect the kingdom's concerns over its deteriorating relations with the United States.

It was reported in mid-September 2003 that Saudi Arabia had launched a strategic review that includes acquiring nuclear weapons. A strategy paper being considered at the highest levels in Riyadh sets out three options:

* To acquire a nuclear capability as a deterrent;
* To maintain or enter into an alliance with an existing nuclear power that would offer protection;
* To try to reach a regional agreement on having a nuclear-free Middle East.

"The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is not considering acquiring a nuclear bomb or nuclear weapons of any kind," the Saudi Embassy in London said in a statement issued on 19 September 2003. "There is no atomic energy programme in any part of the kingdom and neither is one being considered," the statement said.

On 19 October 2003 Crown Prince Abdullah bin Abdulaziz and an entourage of 200, including Foreign Minister Prince Saud Al Faisal and several Cabinet ministers, met with senior officials in Pakistan. Pakistan’s Premier, Mir Zafrullah Jamali, received Crown Prince Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz, Deputy Premier and Commander of the National Guard, at his palace. During the meeting, they discussed recent developments in Islamic and international arenas, and reviewed bilateral relations between the two countries and means of enhancing them. At the close of the meeting, Crown Prince Abdullah received a memorial gift from Pakistan’s Prime Minister. The meeting was attended by Prince Saud Al-Faisal, the Foreign Minister, and his Pakistani counterpart, Khurshid Kasuri. After the meeting, Jamali hosted a luncheon in honor of the Crown Prince. The luncheon was attended by Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf, the official delegation accompanying the Crown Prince, and Pakistani ministers and senior officials. The Foreign Minister, Prince Saud Al-Faisal, said in a news conference that Israeli-Indian defence cooperation would inflame the region, escalate the arms race, and damage the region’s interests by triggering instability.

"Saudi Arabian officials went to Pakistan and are negotiating the purchase of nuclear warheads for their land-based missiles," head of Israel Defense Forces' Military Intelligence Maj.-Gen. Aharon Ze'evi reportedly told the Knesset's Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee on 21 October 2003. Committee chairman MK Yuval Shteinitz said this was the first time he had heard a report about Saudi Arabia's nuclear plans. "There is an assumption that Saudi Arabia financed the Pakistan nuclear plant and that there is a tacit understanding between the two countries that, if Iran becomes nuclear, Saudi Arabia will be provided with some nuclear warheads from Pakistan," Shteinitz said.
[link to www.globalsecurity.org]


Thanks for helping get the word out Mathetes, the irony is delicious.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 751882
United States
12/08/2009 10:36 PM
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Re: Wow! Saudis 'in a panic mode' as Shi'ite rebels move North from Yemen
Wouldn't Iran and Yemen make natural allies for the west against the enemy Sunnis of Saudi Arabia and the Wahabi Sunnis of Al Qaeda?

Why are they hunting sunnis, but shunning shia?

What did they expect to happen in Iraq - shia take over?

that and you got all the tribal/cousins cross connections-hard to go either/or -complicated allegegances.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 836154


Because this whole f-kng war is between the Shia and Sunni Muslims. They have been fighting it for 1200 years.
:)
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12/08/2009 10:37 PM
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Re: Wow! Saudis 'in a panic mode' as Shi'ite rebels move North from Yemen
By immediately evacuating all allied forces from the entire region and deploying B-2 bomber to carry out strategic, tactical airstrikes using neutron bombs to engage and neutralise large entire populations of areas containing insurgents.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 836082


Spoken like a true psychopath.
itdincor

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12/08/2009 11:45 PM
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Re: Wow! Saudis 'in a panic mode' as Shi'ite rebels move North from Yemen
I'm surprised this hasn't had more attention. If the insurgency were to succeed, the oil flow to the west would surely be under threat, unless the Yemenis just want to become fat, rich oil barons. Thin end of the wedge too, imo.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 836110


Right. I've a copy of Lawrence's "Seven Pillars of Wisdom", about the WWI Arab Revolt, and ... who knows? Those "Young Believers" might go all the way.

After all Saudi Arabia is named after ONE FAMILY (can you guess?), the Saud. Last I noticed, some years ago, there were something like 25,000 princes on the official dole. The whole country is a family enterprise, run for the benefit of ONE FAMILY.

Historically, this has always been an intrinsically weak sort of governmental structure. It willl not last, for it cannot.

Who knows? The "Young Believers", eh?

Shit....always something.....

hayseed
Anonymous Coward
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12/09/2009 12:05 AM
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Re: Wow! Saudis 'in a panic mode' as Shi'ite rebels move North from Yemen
I must repeat. The only way you can win a war against insurgants is NOT BY CARPET BOMBING or an bombing from the air at all. It takes massive amounts of troops on the ground numbering in the millions.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 715509


That's correct. You can't bomb the Shi'ite out of Yemen.
itdincor

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12/09/2009 12:14 AM
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Re: Wow! Saudis 'in a panic mode' as Shi'ite rebels move North from Yemen
Finished the whole thread, including the Saudis and Hussein, and nukes, and and and ...

Shit on a stick! What a stinkin' mess!

hayseed
itdincor

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12/09/2009 12:04 PM
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Re: Wow! Saudis 'in a panic mode' as Shi'ite rebels move North from Yemen
Aaand, a bump

hayseed
Aquarius 7

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12/09/2009 12:33 PM
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Re: Wow! Saudis 'in a panic mode' as Shi'ite rebels move North from Yemen
aq bump02
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Cayce: “… The greater portion of Japan must go into the sea. …. then we may know it has begun …”. www.near-death.com/experiences/cayce11.html
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