There will NEVER be a TEMPLE rebuilt in Jerusalem

You really are drunk, and a liar. You've been shown this before. You use one verse and leave the rest out, or twist scripture to say what you want. Here is what it says ...

Colossians 2:14-17 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

The 'handwriting of ordinances' were the Jewish sacrificial ordinances of Moses. The ten commandments are forever.

Eph.2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances

I won't judge you God will. But you will not be allowed to deceive to others.

"Replacement theology" is from God who replaced physical Israel when the gospel went to the world. Take it up with Him when you see Him.

God's people are those who keep His law. God had a people before Jews ever existed.

Rom 11:20-23 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Be not high minded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not you. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in his goodness: otherwise you also shall be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

John 15:5 I am the vine, you are the branches: He that stays in me, and I in him, the same brings forth much fruit: for without me you can do nothing.

Gal.3:7 Know you therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

Exactly - you must interpret in context and you have no idea how to do it. First, you can't deny history. Since the people of the "prince that shall come" were Romans it means that this particular prince that will come will be a Roman ruler. THAT IS THE TRUE CONTEXT FOR VERSE 27. you can't bounce over the prince that will come (roman ruler) and go back to the Messiah that was cut-off and try to apply it to verse 27 because the mention of the Roman ruler is in between them. That's an elementary rule of context. The convenant is confirmed for 7 years by a Roman ruler. It is the roman ruler that is in context with the "convenant confirmed"

Jesus also called it an abomination of desolation. An abomination is something that God opposes.

Are you implying that the work of Jesus on the cross was the abomination? If so - you are treading on thin ice my friend because Jehovah made it well know that he was welled pleased with Jesus. The abomination is done by the Roman ruler. (anti-christ)

What you are spewing out is demonic heresy.

2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.


70 WEEKS of DANIEL

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.


25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.


26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.


27 And he(Messiah) shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


Those that have swallowed the Jesuit's futurism (Christian-Zionist) put the final seven years of the 70 weeks prophecy at the end of this world, with a 2400 year "gap". Jesus was baptized becoming the Messiah just as prophesied beginning this last week (prophetic years) - to be crucified (cut off) 3 1/2 years later causing an end of sacrifices. To keep sacrificing, building another temple or moving the last week of the prophecy denies the Messiah of Christ.

Many Jews did number the days. Early christianity was very Jewish. For Jesus to be Jew was to be Christian (see:Revelation 2:9).

Messiah came and was crucified 3.5 years after his ministry began - cut off - just as was prophesied.

Timeline chart
[link to www.aloha.net]
[link to www.daniels70weeks.com]


What is Futurism?

The Futurist view of Revelation interprets the prophecies of Antichrist as a future literal man who deceives the world. The Futurist view interprets Revelation literally, not symbolically. There is a "gap" of over 2400 years between the 69th week and 70th week of Daniel 9. The Prince is the Man of Sin, Antichrist. The Futurist view was introduced by the Jesuits to counter the Reformation view of Papacy.


What is Historicism?

The Historicist view is the historical interpretation of many of the prophecies in the book of Revelation, particularly regarding Antichrist. The Anti-Christ, Man of Sin, or Mystery of Iniquity is the system of Papacy. The Reformers had the historical interpretation of the Antichrist. Historicism has no "gap" between the 69th and 70th week of Daniel 9. The Prince being cut off in the midst of the week is Christ, the Messiah, who died in the midst of the 70th week of favor to natural Israel at the first advent. Historicism treats Revelation as a Book of signs and symbols.
[link to www.aloha.net]
[link to en.wikipedia.org]
Steve Wohlberg documents the Jesuit origins of Futurism ( Christian-Zionism )
[link to www.lmn.org]
[link to continuingcounterreformation.blogspot.com]


Revelation 1:19 Write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;


From the times of John around 95 AD these prophecies are being fulfilled throughout history.

Bless you, brother Don. You are a blessing. You are right on track, except for the dating of Revelation. I think you will find that the post 70 ad dating of revelation is false and has no base to stand on. It was Iraneus who first said that it was written in 95 ad. But Iraneus also said the number 666 was supposed to be 616 that he found in earlier manuscripts, so that has it's issues as well. He also says Jesus started his ministry when He was 40-50 years of age.

My humble suggestion is to take what Iraneus says with a grain of salt.

Hi homemommy

I'm aware the gospels writing could only predate 70 AD but often John is believed to have written Revelation while imprisoned on Patmose. This is generally understood to be the final book written.

Anyway, you may enjoy this. Gates covers the crucificion in 31 AD and how that places us in the final generation. It was an interesting take if anything, and could be close to true. And the financial collapse.

The Converging Crisis
A Two Part Video By David Gates Presented in April 2008
Part 1 (79 min)
[link to video.google.com]
Part 2 (104 min)
[link to video.google.com]

Hi. Yes, the gospels are before 70 ad, seeing how Jesus predicted the temple being destroyed in 70ad. John was exiled to Patmos, but if you study 1st century christian persecution under Nero(63-67ad), He also used Patmos for exile.

I believe Jesus when He was talking to the disciples and told them "This generation", he meant the generation of the people He was speaking face-to-face to.

Many Blessings to you, friend.

Last Edited by homemommy on 12/10/2009 02:14 PM

1.) Sabbath days are not required to be kept

2.) Church has not replaced Israel

Sorry, bud.

I guess hard evidence isn't your thing, is it?


Based on grammar alone, we know that Daniel 9:27 is NOT about Jesus Christ - [link to ldolphin.org]

How Jesus Christ's ministry ended exactly on the 69th Week

Please Read Carefully:
[link to www.biblebb.com]

2. Determining the Messiah's arrival

Daniel 9:25 says, "[The time] unto the Messiah, the Prince, shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks; the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. " The sixty-nine weeks leading to the coming of the Messiah are divided into two time periods of seven and sixty-two weeks. Verse 27 indicates that the seventieth week is separated from the other sixty-nine, so only 483 years of the total 490 involved in Daniel's prophecy span the time between the command and the coming of the Messiah. That is the time period we will consider here.

a) The first seven weeks

(1) When they commence

Verse 25 indicates that they begin with "the commandment to restore and build Jerusalem"--but history records several such commands given on different dates. It's important to know which one is right since a different starting date would result in a different ending date. Bible scholars have suggested three possibilities.

a) At the decree of Cyrus?

Ezra 1:1-4 records a decree made by Cyrus in 536 B. C. Some scholars think that must be the decree mentioned in Daniel's prophecy because God said of Cyrus through Isaiah, "He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure; even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid" (44:28). But 483 years subtracted from 536 B. C. takes us to 53 B. C. , many years before the birth of Christ and still more from the inception of His ministry--a discrepancy of over eighty years.

Over the span of hundreds of years eighty years or so may seem close, but our God isn't close--He's exact! Some have proposed a revision of the Ptolemaic calendar (commonly used before the time of Copernicus) to account for the discrepancy, but that seems an inadequate solution because we can't prove a discrepancy. Also, the actual decree of Cyrus provided only for building the Temple in Jerusalem--not for rebuilding Jerusalem's walls (a necessary part of restoring the city). Thus Cyrus's decree is an unlikely candidate for the command of Daniel 9:25.

(b) At the first decree of Artaxerxes?

The first decree of Artaxerxes in 458 B. C. (Ezra 7:11-26) is considered a possibility. However, 483 years from 458 B. C. takes us to A. D. 26. But the only event of significance in the life of Christ remotely close to A. D. 26 is His baptism. However that wasn't His presentation to the nation as the Messiah, but to the Father for approval. It was a transaction between the Son and the Father, and there's no indication that the people at large understood what happened at Jesus' baptism (Matt. 3:13-17). Also, the first decree of Artaxerxes did not provide for the rebuilding of Jerusalem.

(c) At the second degree of Artaxerxes?

This is the best candidate for the decree spoken of in Daniel 9:25. Two scholars have convincingly researched this view: Sir Robert Anderson of Scotland Yard, who over hundred years ago wrote the classic book The Coming Prince (Grand Rapids: Kregel, 1954) , and Dr. Harold Hoehner of Dallas Theological Seminary, who wrote Chronological Aspects of the Life of Christ (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1977). Dr. Hoehner confirmed Anderson's precise computations, differing with him only concerning the proper year of the accession of Artaxerxes to his throne.

Ezra 4 records that the restoration of the Temple was temporarily suspended because the builders were accused of also rebuilding the city without authorization. Permission for rebuilding the city came only with the second decree of Artaxerxes "in the month Nisan, in the twentieth year of Artaxerxes" (Neh. 2:1). Artaxerxes's reign started in 465 B. C. , so the date referred to in Nehemiah 2:1 was the month of Nisan in the year 445 B. C. Because a king's reign was dated from the first of the month of his reign, Sir Robert Anderson thought that since no other date was mentioned in Nehemiah 2, the date Nehemiah spoke of was probably the first of Nisan, 445 B. C. --or March 14, 445 B. C. according to our calendar.

During the seven weeks indicated in Daniel 9:25 the city of Jerusalem would be rebuilt "even in troublous times. " The books of Ezra and Nehemiah reveal that's precisely what happened (Ezra 9 and 10; Neh. 4, 6, 9, and 13). Yet during that forty-nine year period crucial events occurred in the history of Israel: the city was rebuilt, the Temple established, and the canon of the Old Testament was completed. From the close of that time to the advent of John the Baptist there was no prophet in Israel.

The prophecy that the street and wall of Jerusalem would be rebuilt is best understood to refer to its internal structures and external fortifications (the Hebrew words used literally refer to the marketplace and surrounding moat of the city). The prophecy required the complete restoration of Jerusalem take place in forty-nine years. Since it was during the half century after the second decree of Artaxerxes that history records Jerusalem was rebuilt and completed, it seems that decree must be the one that started the seventy weeks prophesied in Daniel 9:24-27.

(2) When they conclude

The seven weeks of years concluded in 396 B. C. , forty-nine years after the second decree of Artaxerxes in 445B. C.

b) The sixty-two weeks

(1) When they commence

In 396 B. C. , following the forty-nine years of rebuilding Jerusalem, a period of sixty-two weeks of years (434 years) commenced. Simple addition shows that the total number of years between the second decree of Artaxerxes and the coming of the Messiah is 483 years. Each of those years consisted of 360 days. Thus the total number of days involved is 173,880 days.

(2) When they conclude

The phrase "the Messiah, the Prince" (Heb., mashiach nagid) is formal terminology that means "the Anointed One, the Ruler. " The Hebrew word translated "prince" (nagid) was first used of King Saul and then of other kings. It is a title associated with kingly authority and is applied here to the appearing of the Lord Jesus Christ as a prince and ruler.

But what particular event in Christ's life marks the end of the sixty-two weeks? Two popular views are His baptism and triumphal entry into Jerusalem.

(a) At Christ's baptism?

Some think the appearance spoken of in Daniel 9:25 refers to His baptism. But as we already discussed, that appearance was a presentation to the Father. Those present were unaware of what was occurring, and the Father's declaration was, "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased" (Matt. 3:17) --not a declaration of Christ's kingly authority.

(b) At Christ's triumphal entry?

The interpretation that makes the most sense is the triumphal entry of Jesus into Jerusalem since that was when He was presented to the Jewish people as the Messianic Prince. The test of this theory is whether the triumphal entry occurred 173,880 days after the second decree of Artaxerxes.

Working from March 14, 445 B. C. (the date of Artaxerxes' second decree according to our calendar) , Sir Robert Anderson calculated by the use of astronomical calendars and charts that the day of the coming of the Messiah was April 6, A. D. 32. Such calendars and charts helped him determine the timing of the Jewish new moons by which the Passovers were determined.

One of the problems Anderson had to resolve in his calculations was that between the decree of Artaxerxes and the triumphal entry of Jesus into Jerusalem is a period of 477 years and 24 days. After deducting one year to account for the fact that 1 B. C. and A. D. 1 are not two years but one, that left Anderson with a total of 476 years 24 days or a total of 173,764 days--not the necessary 173,880 days. That's close--but our God is precise!

Anderson next added 119 days to his figure for the 119 leap years represented by 476 years. That results in a figure of 173,883 days--three days too many! But realizing that the Julian calendar on which our 365 day year is based is slightly inaccurate compared to an actual solar year, Anderson checked with the Royal Observatory in London and found that a 365 day year exceeds a solar year by 1/128th of a day. That fraction of 476 years is three days, which when subtracted from 173,883 yields a difference of 173,880 days--precisely the number of days predicted in Daniel 9:25!

More recently Dr. Harold Hoehner used modern astronomical charts and computers to confirm the work of Sir Robert Anderson. However, he used a different starting date than Anderson. That's because he knew that Medo-Persian kings didn't include the year of their accession to the throne to reckon the length of their reigns. That meant Artaxerxes wasn't considered king until 464 B. C. , and thus rather than using 445 B. C. as the year of Artaxerxes's second decree (as Anderson did) , Hoehner used 444 B. C. (twenty years after Artaxerxes was first recognized as king--Neh. 2:1). It also meant that the first of Nisan fell on March 30 (according to the new moons of 444 B. C. ) rather than March 5.

Using the same adjustments as Anderson, Hoehner multiplied 476 (the number of years between the second decree of Artaxerxes and the presentation of the Messiah in Jerusalem) by 365. 24219879 (the decimal equivalent of 365 days, five hours, forty-eight minutes, and forty-four seconds--which accounts for the 1/128 difference between calendar and solar days observed by Anderson) and obtained a product of 173,855. 28662404 days (173,855 days, six hours, fifty-two minutes, and forty-four seconds). That's twenty-five days longer than the 173,880 that ought to exist from the time of the decree to the time of the Messiah's appearance. But Hoehner was able to adjust that amount by the difference between the starting dates of Anderson (March 5) and himself (March 30) --a period of exactly twenty-five days! Thus regardless of the starting date used, both Anderson and Hoehner were able to show the precision with which God predicted and fulfilled the presentation of Jesus Christ as Messiah and Ruler.

Conclusion

When Jesus entered Jerusalem in triumph it wasn't on a whim. When He said, "Mine hour is not yet come," He knew what He was talking about: God has declared "the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done" (Isa. 46:10). God told Daniel precisely when the Messiah would enter Jerusalem and be acknowledged as King with shouts of "Hosanna to the Son of David!" (Matt. 21:9).

The "gap" between the 69th and the 70th week, and the purpose of the "gap"

[link to www.blueletterbible.org]

The Interval


Verses which imply a gap between the 69th and the 70th:
Isa 61:1-2 (re: Lk 4:18-20) Rev 12:5-6 Also Isa 54:7; Hos 3:4-5; Amos 9:10-11 (Acts 15:13-18) Micah 5:2-3; Zech 9:9-10; Luke 1:31-32; 21:24.


Verses which define the gap between the 69th and 70th:
Lk 19:42 until Rom 11:25

-- The interval is the period for the Church which was kept secret in the Old Testament:
Mt. 13:34-35; Eph 3:5, 9

-- Church was born at Pentecost:
Col 1:18; 1 Cor 12:13; Acts 1:5, 11, 15-16


-- Prerequisities which had to take place before the birth of the Church

Atonement: Mt. 16:18, 21
Resurrection: Eph 1:20-23
Ascension: Eph 4:7-11 (spiritual gifts came only after ascension)


Unique and Mysterious Character of the Church

Body Concept: Eph 3:3-5,9
(Holy Spirit) Indwelling every believer: Col 1:26-27
Bride of Christ: Eph 5:22-32
Harpazo ("Rapture"): 1 Cor 15:50-58
One "New Man": Eph 2:15; Cf. Rev: 12:5
Distinguished from Jews or Gentiles: 1 Cor 10:32

Why Daniel 9:27 is the Antichrist



We know that Daniel 9:27 is not meant for Christ, but the Antichrist, because it correlates with the little horn, man of sin, son of perdition, idol shepherd (etc) mentioned earlier in Daniel and all throughout the Bible. And not only that, but it flows with the previous verse, which says: Messiah will be "cut-off" (executed, disappearing from the "world scene"), then "the people of the prince that shall come" will destroy Jerusalem with the temple. Sometime later, the Antichrist (when he comes, and when the Jews are back in the land and the temple is rebuilt) will make a covenant with many (Israel, or "thy people" as Gabriel puts it) for one week.

What Jesus meant by "the abomination of desolation", how and why it correlates with a historical event




This is what Antiochus IV Epiphanes did before the arrival of Jesus, and it's recorded in the book of Daniel as well as 1 Maccabees. It also correlates with the Jewish Holiday known as Hannukah. Antiochus IV Epiphanes stopped the temple sacrifices, slew a pig on the altar, then erected a statue of Zeus in the holy temple. This act caused a revolt known as The Maccabean Revolt. Antiochus IV Epiphanes also forced Jews to cease from circumcision as well as Sabbath observance, and executed anyone who was found disobeying these rules.
[link to faculty.bbc.edu]
[link to virtualreligion.net]
[link to christianactionforisrael.org]

Now let's look at what Jesus said about this



Jesus warns us of a future event but uses a past event as an example. How do we know this?

Event #1 - Past
As previously mentioned, in Daniel 11:31 Antiochus IV Epiphanes stopped the temple sacrifice, then sets up an idol to Zeus in the temple. This act was called "the abomination that causes desolation". The phrase "the abomination that causes desolation" alone should give us pause and bring to our minds what was said in Matthew 24:15.

Event #2 - Future
This event will be just like the previous one, only on a worldwide scale, and much worse. Let's find out why this future event will be like the previous one, and why it is in fact yet to happen.

Future:
The phrase "when ye therefore shall see" alone suggests this event is a future one.

Foreshadow:
Jesus in Matthew 24:15 calls the future event "the abomination of desolation". Gabriel in Daniel 11:31 calls the past event "the abomination that causes desolation". Because we've already discussed what "the abomination that causes desolation" was and who committed the act, it should then be obvious what Jesus was actually talking about in Matthew 24:15. The connection is just too obvious to ignore or deny. With this understanding alone, we then know that "the holy place" is in fact a rebuilt temple.

What is an "abomination"?

The Greek word translated as "abomination" is used only six times in the New Testament. In all four of the six references, the word is used only in the sense of idolatry. Not only that, but the word simply means idolatry.

Abomination - G946 - bdelugma
bdelugma
bdel'-oog-mah
From G948; a detestation, that is, (specifically) idolatry: - abomination.

Strong's G946 - bdelygma
1) a foul thing, a detestable thing
-a) of idols and things pertaining to idolatry

AV — abomination 6
[link to www.blueletterbible.org]

Conclusion
The act of Antiochus IV Epiphanes was largely a foreshadowing of what and who (namely the Antichrist) is to come: "the prince that shall come" will stop the temple sacrifices in the middle of the week, waltz into the temple and declare himself higher than God, perhaps erect in the temple an image of himself (Revelation 13), (which will be the abomination of desolation) then ruthlessly murder those who do not comply with his demanded worship.

What exactly is "the holy place"?







Let's further examine what Paul says



Notice what Paul says - Paul says the Son of Perdition will sit in the temple of God and proclaim himself higher than all that is called God. This agrees strongly with what Jesus said in Matthew 24:15 (as well as Daniel 7:8, 11; Daniel 7:20-21, 25; Daniel 11:31, 36-37; Daniel 12:11; Daniel 9:26-27; Daniel 8:25; Revelation 13:5-8)

Further proof that it is in fact a rebuilt temple


Revelation 11:1-2
And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple [naos G3485] of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Take notice that John is given a measuring reed to take measurements, which implies it's a building. Also notice that this temple is not in heaven and that it has an altar and people inside of it. Take notice that Gentiles are given the outer court. This is clearly a rebuilt temple on the earth. We also know it's a rebuilt temple on the earth because we see the two witnesses doing their thing to those who try to harm them while they are visiting:

Revelation 11:3-7
And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

The Greek word translated as "temple" in Revelation 11:1 is the same Greek word Paul uses as "temple" in 2 Thessalonians 2:4:

2Thessalonians 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple [naos G3485] of God, shewing himself that he is God.

'Temple' - Naos
G3485
naos
nah-os'
From a primary word; naio; (to dwell); a fane, shrine, temple: - shrine, temple. Compare G2411.


naos
from a primary naio (to dwell)

1. used of the temple at Jerusalem, but only of the sacred edifice (or sanctuary) itself, consisting of the Holy place and the Holy of Holies (in classical Greek it is used of the sanctuary or cell of the temple, where the image of gold was placed which is distinguished from the whole enclosure)
2. any heathen temple or shrine
3. metaph. the spiritual temple consisting of the saints of all ages joined together by and in Christ

KJV (46) - a shrine, 1; temple, 45;
NAS (45) - shrines, 1; temple, 42; temple sanctuary, 1; temples, 1;
[link to www.blueletterbible.org]

I'm sorry literal interpretation isn't your thing, but it is what it is.

Gal 3:1 ¶ O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Gal 3:4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if [it be] yet in vain.
Gal 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, [doeth he it] by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Gal 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed.
Gal 3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
Gal 3:10 ¶ For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, [it is] evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree:
Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Gal 3:15 ¶ Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though [it be] but a man's covenant, yet [if it be] confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Gal 3:17 And this I say, [that] the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance [be] of the law, [it is] no more of promise: but God gave [it] to Abraham by promise.
Gal 3:19 ¶ Wherefore then [serveth] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; [and it was] ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Gal 3:20 Now a mediator is not [a mediator] of one, but God is one.
Gal 3:21 [Is] the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 ¶ For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise

Colossians 2:16-17
Let no man therefore judge [G2919 KRINO] you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [G4521 SABBATON] days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Establishing terminology:

Judge - G2919 - KRINO

G2919
krino
kree'-no
Properly to distinguish, that is, decide (mentally or judicially); by implication to try, condemn, punish: - avenge, conclude, condemn, damn, decree, determine, esteem, judge, go to (sue at the) law, ordain, call in question, sentence to, think.

Strong's G2919 - krino

1) to separate, put asunder, to pick out, select, choose
2) to approve, esteem, to prefer
3) to be of opinion, deem, think, to be of opinion
4) to determine, resolve, decree
5) to judge
-a) to pronounce an opinion concerning right and wrong
--1) to be judged, i.e. summoned to trial that one's case may be examined and judgment passed upon it
-b) to pronounce judgment, to subject to censure
--1) of those who act the part of judges or arbiters in matters of common life, or pass judgment on the deeds and words of others
6) to rule, govern
-a) to preside over with the power of giving judicial decisions, because it was the prerogative of kings and rulers to pass judgment
7) to contend together, of warriors and combatants
-a) to dispute
-b) in a forensic sense
--1) to go to law, have suit at law

AV — judge 88, determine 7, condemn 5, go to law 2, call in question 2, esteem 2, misc 8
[link to www.blueletterbible.org]

Sabbath - G4521 - SABBATON

G4521
sabbaton
sab'-bat-on
Of Hebrew origin [H7676]; the Sabbath (that is, Shabbath), or day of weekly repose from secular avocations (also the observance or institution itself); by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths; likewise the plural in all the above applications: - sabbath (day), week.

Strong's G4521 - sabbaton

1) the seventh day of each week which was a sacred festival on which the Israelites were required to abstain from all work
-a) the institution of the sabbath, the law for keeping holy every seventh day of the week
-b) a single sabbath, sabbath day
2) seven days, a week

AV — sabbath day 37, sabbath 22, week 9
[link to www.blueletterbible.org]

Chapters and verses which use the word "sabbaton":

Matthew 12:1-8
At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat. But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day. But he said unto them, Have ye not read what David did, when he was an hungred, and they that were with him; How he entered into the house of God, and did eat the shewbread, which was not lawful for him to eat, neither for them which were with him, but only for the priests? Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless? But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple. But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

Luke 13:10-30
And he was teaching in one of the synagogues on the sabbath. And, behold, there was a woman which had a spirit of infirmity eighteen years, and was bowed together, and could in no wise lift up herself. And when Jesus saw her, he called her to him, and said unto her, Woman, thou art loosed from thine infirmity. And he laid his hands on her: and immediately she was made straight, and glorified God. And the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because that Jesus had healed on the sabbath day, and said unto the people, There are six days in which men ought to work: in them therefore come and be healed, and not on the sabbath day. The Lord then answered him, and said, Thou hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his ass from the stall, and lead him away to watering? And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day? And when he had said these things, all his adversaries were ashamed: and all the people rejoiced for all the glorious things that were done by him. Then said he, Unto what is the kingdom of God like? and whereunto shall I resemble it? It is like a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and cast into his garden; and it grew, and waxed a great tree; and the fowls of the air lodged in the branches of it. And again he said, Whereunto shall I liken the kingdom of God? It is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened. And he went through the cities and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem. Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

Luke 14:1-35
And it came to pass, as he went into the house of one of the chief Pharisees to eat bread on the sabbath day, that they watched him. And, behold, there was a certain man before him which had the dropsy. And Jesus answering spake unto the lawyers and Pharisees, saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath day? And they held their peace. And he took him, and healed him, and let him go; And answered them, saying, Which of you shall have an ass or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day? And they could not answer him again to these things. And he put forth a parable to those which were bidden, when he marked how they chose out the chief rooms; saying unto them, When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding, sit not down in the highest room; lest a more honourable man than thou be bidden of him; And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give this man place; and thou begin with shame to take the lowest room. But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee. For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. Then said he also to him that bade him, When thou makest a dinner or a supper, call not thy friends, nor thy brethren, neither thy kinsmen, nor thy rich neighbours; lest they also bid thee again, and a recompence be made thee. But when thou makest a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind: And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just. And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in the kingdom of God. Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many: And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready. And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused. And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused. And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come. So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind. And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room. And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled. For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper. And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned, and said unto them, If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple. For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it? Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him, Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish. Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand? Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace. So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple. Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be seasoned? It is neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill; but men cast it out. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

You're right. Christ fulfilled the Old Law. Tis a shame you do not understand what that means.



[link to www.youtube.com] - Law Fulfilled.
[link to www.youtube.com] - I Am Free From The Old Law.
[link to www.youtube.com] - Your Kick Jesus Out.

Gal 3:1 ¶ O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Gal 3:4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if [it be] yet in vain.
Gal 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, [doeth he it] by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Gal 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
Gal 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
Gal 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, [saying], In thee shall all nations be blessed.
Gal 3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
Gal 3:10 ¶ For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, [it is] evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Gal 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed [is] every one that hangeth on a tree:
Gal 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Gal 3:15 ¶ Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though [it be] but a man's covenant, yet [if it be] confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. Gal 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Gal 3:17 And this I say, [that] the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
Gal 3:18 For if the inheritance [be] of the law, [it is] no more of promise: but God gave [it] to Abraham by promise.
Gal 3:19 ¶ Wherefore then [serveth] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; [and it was] ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
Gal 3:20 Now a mediator is not [a mediator] of one, but God is one.
Gal 3:21 [Is] the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 ¶ For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise

Last Edited by Aenon on 12/10/2009 04:01 PM

“Replacement Theology” I don’t know who came up with this term but it makes no sense.
Here is the basic problem: Every member of the True Israel who has ever heard the Gospel is now a Christians. The other were cut off for unbelief, no different than any other lost soul. Who is the church replacing?

John 1:11-13, “He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor the will of the flesh, nor the will of man, but of God.

Romans 9:6-8, But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but “In Isaac your seed shall be called”

That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.
Galatians 3: 28-29, There is neither Jew nor Gentile, there is neither slave or free, there is neither male nor female, for you are one in Christ Jesus.
And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise.

Galatians 4:3, Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world.

Galatians 4:9, But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage?

Galatians 4:21, Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law?

For it is written that Abraham has two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman.

But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, which things are symbolic. For these are two covenants the one from Mount Sinai, which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar- for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children-but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written: (Isaiah 54:1)
Rejoice, O barren, You who do bear! Break forth and shout, You who
are not in labor! For the desolate has many more children than she who has a husband,”

Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.

But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now.

Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bond woman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.”

So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

Galatians 5:1, Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.

Romans 4:12, And the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of faith which our father Abraham had while still uncircumcised.

For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.

For if those who are of the law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise made of no effect.

1) Bible is final

2) Some bozo named Goddrunk is not

If you were sorry you would repent of your lawlessness.

Hi homemommy,

You know better than a martyr, someone (Iraneus) taught by Polycarp who knew the beloved apostle John?

In following Protestantism, you say even to your Protestant brothers and sisters..."except" they are wrong about this or that Scripture. How do you know you are correct?

God left one authority so we can know and understand His revelation, who He is. The Church, the Roman Cahtolic Church was given the gift to interpret Scripture, why it is she who decided the Canon.

We share a love of Christ, His written Word and a love of prayer but soon because God is going to show the world, the fullness of Truth is in the Church He established, the Roman Catholic Church.

The book of the law is the mosaic ordinances that were nailed to the cross. Paul tells the Jews not to continue in the sacrificing after Christ.

There is no need to build a temple any longer.

Is the temple brick and stone?

1 Cor.3:16,17 Know you not that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.


2 Cor.6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.


Eph.2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.


1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Let me start off by asking some questions.

-Question

If Jesus were already in heaven by Revelation 1, then why does the angel in Revelation 11 call the temple on the earth "the temple of God"? - Rev 1:8; Rev 11:1

-Question

When before the year 70AD did Rome have 10 rulers, who were they? - Dan 7:24; Rev 17:12

-Question

When did the little horn sit in the temple of God, exalted himself above all that is called God, and blaspheme God? - Dan 7:25; 8:25; 11:36; 2Th 2:4; Rev 13:6

-Question

When did Jesus destroy the little horn with the brightness of His coming and the Word of His mouth? - Dan 7:11; 7:26; 8:25; Zech 14:4; 2Th 2:8; Rev 19:11-21

-Question

When did every eye see Jesus come in the clouds? - Dan 7:13; Mat 24:30; Mat 26:64; Mar 13:26; Mar 14:62; Rev 1:7;

-Question

When did He come with the saints, and why isn't Jesus, and the saints who came with Him, here on the earth now? - Rev 19:11-14 (cf. Rev 19:8; 19:19; Mat 25:31); Zech 14:5; Jude 1:14; 1Thes 3:13

-Question

When did His feet touch the mount of olives and split it in two, creating a large valley through the middle? - Zech 14:4, 5 (cf. Acts 1:9-12)



The Bible makes it clear that the Little Horn of Daniel 7 will be destroyed by none other than Jesus Christ Himself.

Let's review!

Jesus will destroy the Antichrist at His second coming

Daniel 7:11
I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.

Daniel 7:26
But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end.

Daniel 8:25
And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand

Zechariah 14:3-5
Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Jude 1:14
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

Revelation 19:11-21
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

2Thessalonians 2:8-10
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

Jesus Christ will come from Heaven with all of His saints and holy angels

Revelation 19:11-14
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

What is the fine linen, white and clean?

Revelation 19:7-8
Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

Further proof

Zechariah 14:5
And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

Jude 1:14
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

1Thessalonians 3:13
To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.

Revelation 19:19-21
And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Holy angels

Matthew 13:37-43
He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Matthew 25:31
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

Mark 8:38
Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

Luke 9:26
For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.

When Jesus returns, His kingdom and throne are then set upon the earth

Luke 1:30-32
And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God. And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

Revelation 12:5
And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Revelation 19:15
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Psalm 2:8-12
Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

Daniel 7:13, 14
I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

Daniel 7:27
And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

Revelation 11:15
And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Isaiah 2:2-4
And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

The saints will reign with Him

Revelation 2:26, 27
And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

1Coronthians 6:1-4
Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church

Revelation 3:21
To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Revelation 5:10
And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Revelation 20:4
...and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


Jesus Christ will set up a kingdom on earth, and Satan will be bound, for one thousand years

Satan who is The father of lies and deceiver of nations:

John 8:44
"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. ... and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."

Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon.... that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world...

Revelation 20:2
....the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan and bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

Satan who was a Murderer from the beginning:

John 8:44
"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning,"

Satan who is The thief:

John 10:10
"The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly."

During the Millennial Kingdom period of time


There will be no more wars:

Isaiah 2:1-4
And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Micah 4:3
And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

There will be world wide peace, righteousness and justice because of the reign of Jesus Christ. So much so, a lamb will be able to lay with a lion and not be harmed, and a child will be able to play with a snake and not be harmed:

Isaiah 11:6-9
The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

Zephaniah 3:11-20
In that day shalt thou not be ashamed for all thy doings, wherein thou hast transgressed against me: for then I will take away out of the midst of thee them that rejoice in thy pride, and thou shalt no more be haughty because of my holy mountain. I will also leave in the midst of thee an afflicted and poor people, and they shall trust in the name of the LORD. The remnant of Israel shall not do iniquity, nor speak lies; neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth: for they shall feed and lie down, and none shall make them afraid. Sing, O daughter of Zion; shout, O Israel; be glad and rejoice with all the heart, O daughter of Jerusalem. The LORD hath taken away thy judgments, he hath cast out thine enemy: the king of Israel, even the LORD, is in the midst of thee: thou shalt not see evil any more. In that day it shall be said to Jerusalem, Fear thou not: and to Zion, Let not thine hands be slack. The LORD thy God in the midst of thee is mighty; he will save, he will rejoice over thee with joy; he will rest in his love, he will joy over thee with singing. I will gather them that are sorrowful for the solemn assembly, who are of thee, to whom the reproach of it was a burden. Behold, at that time I will undo all that afflict thee: and I will save her that halteth, and gather her that was driven out; and I will get them praise and fame in every land where they have been put to shame. At that time will I bring you again, even in the time that I gather you: for I will make you a name and a praise among all people of the earth, when I turn back your captivity before your eyes, saith the LORD.

Christ will reign over the nations from the earthly city Jerusalem, on Mount Zion:

Isaiah 1:26
And I will restore thy judges as at the first, and thy counsellors as at the beginning: afterward thou shalt be called, The city of righteousness, the faithful city.

Isaiah 2:2-4
And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. Isa 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people

Zechariah 8:20-23
Thus saith the LORD of hosts; It shall yet come to pass, that there shall come people, and the inhabitants of many cities: And the inhabitants of one city shall go to another, saying, Let us go speedily to pray before the LORD, and to seek the LORD of hosts: I will go also. Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the LORD. Thus saith the LORD of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.

Christ will judge the nations, execute perfect righteousness and justice upon all:

Isaiah 11:1-5
And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.

Psalm 2:7
I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel. Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

Women will give birth, people will live really long lives, and carnivorous animals will eat vegetation. Some people will still be classified as sinners and also die:

Isaiah 65:20-25
There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed. And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them. They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands. They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them. And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear. The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.



[link to video.godlikeproductions.com]

Once Satan is unbound after that 1000 year reign, he will cause an innumerable multitude to come against Christ in Jerusalem to war against Him one last time, then God will destroy them with fire out of Heaven. After this, Satan is finally cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:7
And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone...

Then after that, The Great White Throne Judgement. This is where all mankind is judged, all those not written in the Lamb's Book of Life are cast into the lake of fire, as well as death and hades cast into the lake of fire. No more death after this.

Revelation 20:11-15
And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Last Edited by Aenon on 12/10/2009 06:18 PM

Jesus never founded a Church. He has always had a people.

We are doing much better with the Bible and no Church/priest to tell us what it means (worship pope). And they did not decide canon. It was established before the RCC ever existed.

It can seem confusing as to which has the right belief in scripture but it can be found. That is up to the individual to find. The RCC only makes this more confusing with their infiltration and corruption, creating the numerous cults.

[link to www.gotquestions.org]

Thought you'd never ask.



The temple in Jerusalem in Daniel 9:27 and the spiritual temple found in Rev 11 which we now are are two different things.



The ten kings of Rev.17 have not come yet. They are here at the second coming. They should rise with the financial collapse.



The antichrist/beast empire is still in Rome claiming to forgive sin, since Rome fell after 463 AD.

So you agree that a temple is spoken of in Daniel 9:27?

Revelation 11 is clearly a literal temple:

Revelation 11:1-2
And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple [G3485 NAOS] of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Take notice that John is given a measuring reed to take measurements, which implies it's a building. Also notice that this temple is not in heaven and that it has an altar and people inside of it. Take notice that Gentiles are given the outer court. This is clearly a rebuilt temple on the earth. We also know it's a rebuilt temple on the earth because we see the two witnesses doing their thing to those who try to harm them while they are visiting:

Revelation 11:3-7
And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

The Greek word translated as "temple" in Revelation 11:1 is the same Greek word Paul uses as "temple" in 2 Thessalonians 2:4:

2Thessalonians 2:4
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple [G3485 NAOS] of God, shewing himself that he is God.

'Temple' - G3485 - NAOS
G3485
naos
nah-os'
From a primary word; naio; (to dwell); a fane, shrine, temple: - shrine, temple. Compare G2411.


NAOS - G3485
from a primary naio (to dwell)

1. used of the temple at Jerusalem, but only of the sacred edifice (or sanctuary) itself, consisting of the Holy place and the Holy of Holies (in classical Greek it is used of the sanctuary or cell of the temple, where the image of gold was placed which is distinguished from the whole enclosure)
2. any heathen temple or shrine
3. metaph. the spiritual temple consisting of the saints of all ages joined together by and in Christ

KJV (46) - a shrine, 1; temple, 45;
NAS (45) - shrines, 1; temple, 42; temple sanctuary, 1; temples, 1;
[link to www.blueletterbible.org]


Last Edited by Aenon on 12/10/2009 06:26 PM

Indeed some of what he said was for that generation while the end times stuff was not.
Preterism-
[link to www.whitehorsemedia.com]

He's not measuring a physical temple. Much of the symbolism of Rev.11 comes from Zech.4.



1) Revelation is a symbolic book, as all prophecy is. There are no beast in the sea, no seven headed dragons. The witnesses and temple are symbolic.

2) Revelation prophecies have been fulfilling since they were given, not all out in the future.

The 70 weeks were fulfilled in Jesus at the time of the cross. The Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD, and the earthly temple was ended with the final sacrifice.

42 weeks were 1260 years of papal rule that ended when France arrested the pope. France banned the Bible (witnesses) and Christianity for 3.5 years (prophetic days), as Egypt and Sodom were spiritually godless.

The "beast from the bottomless pit" is the illuminati's marxist nwo from the Vatican - also the "8th king that is of the 7th," (Rev.17:11) which started at the French Revolution.

In the same passage of Revelation the "two witnesses" are also called "olive trees," and the "two candlesticks." In Zechariah 4:1-6 the angel tells us these are prophetic symbols for the word of God.

The "two witnesses" is the Bible that was suppressed during the dark age persecution, then banned for 3.5 years during the French Revolution. At this point in history the pope was arrested dealing "as it were" a "deadly wound" to the papal empire. All fulfilled prophecy.

Zec.4:1 "And the angel that talked with me came again, and waked me, as a man that is wakened out of his sleep. 2 And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof: 3 And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof. 4 So I answered and spake to the angel that talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord? 5 Then the angel that talked with me answered and said unto me, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. 6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the word of the LORD unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the LORD of hosts."

Zec.5 goes on to describe the Word of God and God's law contained in it as a flying scroll going to all the world. And, historically that is what happened, the Bible has been mass produced and Bible clubs and much interest after the end of the 1260 years of the Dark Ages with the French Revolution, 1798. France did also wage war on the scriptures (OT,NT - two witnesses/candlesticks) banning and burning the Bible for 3 1/2 years from Nov.10,1793 - Jun.1797.
~~~~~
"And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouths, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy. And have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will." Revelation 11:5,6.

This prophecy is a parallel with that of Jesus in Revelation 22:18,19. "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of this prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the Holy City, and from the things which are written in this book."

This will be the fate of ALL those who tamper with the sacred Scripture. These warnings were given by God to warn men against changing or adding to anything written in the Holy Scriptures. The Scriptures reveal God's plan for man from the beginning of creation until Christ's Second Coming, and also how he will provide for man after this Age. The Scriptures were given for man as a guide throughout his life to lead him through the gates of the New Jerusalem where he will dwell with God himself. (Revelation 21:1-4).

"And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the Bottomless Pit shall make war against them and shall overcome them, and kill them. And their dead bodies shall lie in the streets of the great city, which SPIRITUALLY is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified." Revelation 11:7.

This beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit is often confused with the Papacy, but this is not a prophecy of the Papacy since this prophecy starts near the end of the 1260 years. For 1260 years the Papacy did exactly what was foretold in Daniel 7:8, 23-25.

The beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit is the santanic force that caused the French Revolution and the overthrow of papal christianity shortly before the Papacy lost Pope Plus VI as its religious dictator. It is extremely important that the reader have some knowledge of the French Revolution to unmask this same satanic force working now in our time that will eventually involve the whole world.

This Secret Revolutionary Force that had its beginnings in the French Revolution is just another tool Lucifer has, and is using to further his plan to establish his eventual total Rule in this world. This Secret Revolutionary Force is predicted by Scripture to unite with the Mother of Harlots, which is a symbol of the Roman Catholic Church, Apostate Protestantism, and all other religious movements that teach Babylonian Illuminism, or Spirtualism. This Confederacy between the false religions and the political powers of this world is just history repeating itself. It is another attempt to unite man under one banner leaving the Lord out, as it was in the days of Nimrod.

We need to look inside the history of the French Revolution and study the subversive groups that actually caused the Revolt. History books tell us that the French Revolution first began in 1787 or 1789 depending on which book you read. However, it was actually planned by Dr. Adam Weishaupt and the House of Rothschild almost 20 years before the Revolution took place.

Dr. Adam Weishaupt produced the blue print for it, while the House of Rothschild provided the money. This Apostle of Lucifer, Adam Weishaupt was born a Jew, converted to Catholicism, then turned to Witchcraft, where he became an expert, and founded another sect of the Illuminati. This sect of illuminati was founded May 1st, 1776. Like Freemasonry, the Illuminati is a Luciferian movement to preserve and promote the ancient Black Arts of Babylonian and Druid Witchcraft. Its goals are to destroy Christianity and all world governments, and then unite them under a one world government whose ruler is Lucifer.[/face=tahoma]

[link to www.benabraham.com]
[link to www.revelations-two-witnesses.com]

Can you prove it isn't a literal temple?

Last Edited by Aenon on 12/10/2009 07:36 PM

Look at how long a post above! It doesn't matter how much Goddrunk, bless his heart, posts, it's all his personal interpretation and he doesn't even question that so
many disagree with him.

On the disgreement over keeping holy the Sabbath, we
are in the New Covenant, Jesus rose from the dead on
a SUNDAY.

Wake up you guys, your pride tells you it is you who
decides the meaning of Scripture. FALSE!!!

This is much shorter, read what the Church teaches and why.

+ + +

Catechism of the Catholic Church
LIFE IN CHRIST

SECTION TWO
THE TEN COMMANDMENTS

CHAPTER ONE
"YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND"

ARTICLE 3
THE THIRD COMMANDMENT


Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work; but the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God; in it you shall not do any work.90
The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath; so the Son of Man is lord even of the sabbath.91

I. THE SABBATH DAY

2168 The third commandment of the Decalogue recalls the holiness of the sabbath: "The seventh day is a sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the LORD."92

2169 In speaking of the sabbath Scripture recalls creation: "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it."93

2170 Scripture also reveals in the Lord's day a memorial of Israel's liberation from bondage in Egypt: "You shall remember that you were a servant in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out thence with mighty hand and outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep the sabbath day."94

2171 God entrusted the sabbath to Israel to keep as a sign of the irrevocable covenant.95 The sabbath is for the Lord, holy and set apart for the praise of God, his work of creation, and his saving actions on behalf of Israel.

2172 God's action is the model for human action. If God "rested and was refreshed" on the seventh day, man too ought to "rest" and should let others, especially the poor, "be refreshed."96 The sabbath brings everyday work to a halt and provides a respite. It is a day of protest against the servitude of work and the worship of money.97

2173 The Gospel reports many incidents when Jesus was accused of violating the sabbath law. But Jesus never fails to respect the holiness of this day.98 He gives this law its authentic and authoritative interpretation: "The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath."99 With compassion, Christ declares the sabbath for doing good rather than harm, for saving life rather than killing.100 The sabbath is the day of the Lord of mercies and a day to honor God.101 "The Son of Man is lord even of the sabbath."102

II. THE LORD'S DAY

This is the day which the LORD has made; let us rejoice and be glad in it.103
The day of the Resurrection: the new creation

2174 Jesus rose from the dead "on the first day of the week."104 Because it is the "first day," the day of Christ's Resurrection recalls the first creation. Because it is the "eighth day" following the sabbath,105 it symbolizes the new creation ushered in by Christ's Resurrection. For Christians it has become the first of all days, the first of all feasts, the Lord's Day (he kuriake hemera, dies dominica) Sunday:


We all gather on the day of the sun, for it is the first day [after the Jewish sabbath, but also the first day] when God, separating matter from darkness, made the world; and on this same day Jesus Christ our Savior rose from the dead.106

Sunday- fulfillment of the sabbath

2175 Sunday is expressly distinguished from the sabbath which it follows chronologically every week; for Christians its ceremonial observance replaces that of the sabbath. In Christ's Passover, Sunday fulfills the spiritual truth of the Jewish sabbath and announces man's eternal rest in God. For worship under the Law prepared for the mystery of Christ, and what was done there prefigured some aspects of Christ:107


Those who lived according to the old order of things have come to a new hope, no longer keeping the sabbath, but the Lord's Day, in which our life is blessed by him and by his death.108

2176 The celebration of Sunday observes the moral commandment inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship "as a sign of his universal beneficence to all."109 Sunday worship fulfills the moral command of the Old Covenant, taking up its rhythm and spirit in the weekly celebration of the Creator and Redeemer of his people.

1) Christ came to found a spiritual temple, and 2) why would John measure a physical temple?

He is measuring for a true temple of God and the apostate.

Again, that book draws symbolism from Zech.

An "ephah" is a weight and measure. A "woman" is a church:

Zech. 5:7 And, behold, there was lifted up a talent of lead: and this is a woman that sits in the middle of the ephah.
5:8 And he said, This is wickedness. And he cast it into the middle of the ephah; and he cast the weight of lead on the mouth thereof.
5:9 Then lifted I up my eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came out two women, and the wind was in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork: and they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heaven.
5:10 Then said I to the angel that talked with me, Where do these bear the ephah?

The book reads completely different if you don't accept a spiritual temple/israel. Because the Holy City Rev.11:2 applies to God's people Christianity being persecuted for the 42 months/1260 years.

Is the temple brick and stone?

1 Cor.3:16,17 Know you not that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.


2 Cor.6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.


Eph.2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.


1 Peter 2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Catholicguy is being funny. Just because some disagree on something doesn't mean the word cannot be understood, just that some deny what scripture says.

The RCC admits to changing the Sabbath. They are wrong, about MANY things. Some have returned to the original way.

Find what the beast is and the mark of the beast. God has a remnant he returns for. A remnant is identical to the original, like a piece of remnant cloth. The Sabbath never changes in scripture. The Lord's Day is the 7th-day Sabbath, God's Sabbath.

Matt.12:8 "The Son of man is Lord even of the Sabbath day."

[link to www.toolong.com]
[link to www.the-sabbath.net]

utter mindless claptrap

Tangent:
Interesting site I read a couple years ago that cites the Zechariah 5 passage in comparing Roswell (and its infamous 1947 incident) with Babylon. . .

[link to www.echoesofenoch.com]

don,

Your anti-Catholicism is showing. Scripture says it is
not to be understood privately, but you ignore that verse and why you all (Protestants) can never agree on Scripture.

You argue among yourselves, you start new sects, actually
one a week since Martin Luther and his revolt.

We are in the New Covenant not the old Don. Don and
Goddrunk, God wants us to gather together on Sunday and
worship Him in community. I think, it's that you don't wish to give God that time joining with your fellow Christians to worship Him. Besides laziness, it's tied
to your prideful disagreements too.

Your personal interpretation (opinion) doesn't change the fact God requires our worship on Sunday and to rest on
that day. Why can't you keep this simple request.
It is a help...see...the Third Commandment helps us
spiritually, physically and emotionally.

Ten bucks, you didn't read the excerpt from the Catechism.
Did you?


trying to help you see,

Daniel 9:27
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week...

This is a literal 7-year period, just as the previous were literal 7-year periods. This covenant is the beginning of The Day of The Lord: A day which will happen unexpectedly, and a day in which God will begin to pour out His wrath upon the world.


-THE DAY OF THE LORD-

Revelation 16:15
Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

Matthew 24:42-44
Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

1Thessalonians 5:2-3
For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail [G5604 ODIN] upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

 Quoting:

Matthew 24:8
All these are the beginning of sorrows [G5604 ODIN].

Sorrows/Travail - G5604
odin
o-deen'
Akin to G3601; a pang or throe, especially of childbirth: - pain, sorrow, travail.

Strong's G5604
1) the pain of childbirth, travail pain, birth pangs
2) intolerable anguish, in reference to the dire calamities precede the advent of the Messiah
AV — sorrow 2, pain 1, travail 1
[link to www.blueletterbible.org]
---

-THE BEGINNING OF SORROWS-

False Christs:
Matthew 24:5
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Revelation 6:2
And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see. And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

Wars and Rumors of Wars:
Matthew 24:6
And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:

Revelation 6:3-4
And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see. And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.

Famines, Pestilences, Earthquakes:
Matthew 24:7
and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

Revelation 6:5-8, 12
And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine. And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.... And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake;

Matthew 24:8
All these are the beginning of sorrows.

-Review-
All of the fore things mentioned are the beginning of sorrows, not the things which happen before the travail. In other words, these are all the beginning of birth pangs, with the first seal opening being the beginning of the beginning of birth pangs.
---
-THE APPEARANCE OF THE ANTICHRIST-

[This one in Daniel 8:23-25 is a picture of both Antiochus and the Antichrist, because it says he will also stand against the Prince of princes and be destroyed without hand - Antiochus died from a disease, Antichrist will die from the Word of the Lord and the brightness of His coming]

Daniel 8:23-25
And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up. And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people. And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

Revelation 6:1
And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see. And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

-IDENTIFYING CHARACTERISTICS AND TRAITS-

White Horse
There are only two people in the Book of Revelation who ride white horses:

(a) 1st seal rider
Revelation 6:1-2
And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see. And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

(b) the LORD Jesus Christ (with His body)
Revelation 19:11
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Crowns
Both riders are wearing crowns, both have weapons, and both conquer. However, there are differences, and in these differences we find the "similarities" (i.e., that the 1st seal rider is the Antichrist).

For example, the (a) 1st seal rider has one crown, a stephanos, and it was given to him.

Revelation 6:2
....and a crown was given unto him...

'Crown' - G4735
stephanos
stef'-an-os
From an apparently primary “stepho” (to twine or wreathe); a chaplet (as a badge of royalty, a prize in the public games or a symbol of honor generally; but more conspicuous and elaborate than the simple fillet, G1238), literally or figuratively: - crown.

Strong's G4735 - stephanos
1) a crown
--a) a mark of royal or (in general) exalted rank
---1) the wreath or garland which was given as a prize to victors in public games
--b) metaph. the eternal blessedness which will be given as a prize to the genuine servants of God and Christ: the crown (wreath) which is the reward of the righteousness
--c) that which is an ornament and honour to one
AV — crown 18

[link to www.blueletterbible.org]

The second rider (b), the LORD Jesus Christ, on the other hand, has many crowns, diadem, and has a name written that no man knows but Himself.

Revelation 19:12
His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

'Crowns' - G1238
diadema
dee-ad'-ay-mah
From a compound of G1223 and G1210; a “diadem” (as bound about the head): - crown. Compare G4735.

Strong's G1238 - diadema
1) a diadem
--a) a blue band marked with white which Persian kings used to bind on the turban or tiara
--b) the kingly ornament for the head, the crown
AV — crowns 3

[link to www.blueletterbible.org]

Have weapons, make war, conquer
(a) 1st seal rider makes war (under the guise of peace), conquers.

Revelation 6:2
....and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

(b) the LORD Jesus Christ, in righteousness judges and makes war.

Revelation 19:11, 15
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. ...And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.




Review
1.) Both riders have white horses, signifying righteousness, peace. 1st seal rider giving off the false impression of righteousness and peace, Jesus being True and being true righteousness and peace.
2.) Both riders have weapons, 1st rider bow (without arrows), Jesus Christ sword from mouth.
3.) Both have crowns, signifying royalty, leadership, authority. 1st seal rider has his (stephanos) given to him, Jesus Christ has many (diadem) that are rightfully and specifically his.
4.) Both make war, Antichrist under false peace and righteousness, Jesus Christ with righteous judgment.

Conclusion
1st seal rider mimics Jesus Christ (As Satan mimics God the Father) and is the Antichrist, son of perdition, little horn, man of sin, The Wicked, etc.

---
-THE SECOND HALF OF THE 7-YEAR PERIOD BEGINS WITH THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION-

The Antichrist is allowed to continue forty-two months. Forty-two months is simply 3 and a half years. This is clearly the second half of the 7-year period of Daniel's 70th week.

Revelation 13:5
And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Daniel 7:25
And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

 Quoting:

The second half of Daniel's 70th week of Daniel 9:27 and birth pangs of Matthew 24:15 are both referenced in 2Thessalonians 2:3, 4 and Revelation 13 on.

Daniel 9:27
.... and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Matthew 24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

2Thessalonians 2:3, 4
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Revelation 13:1-18
And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. If any man have an ear, let him hear. He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Continuation of the Abomination of Desolation

Revelation 13:11-18
And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

-GREAT TRIBULATION-

Revelation 12:6
And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

Daniel 12:1
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Revelation 12:7
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

Temple Desolation, Exaltation Higher Than God, Idol Worship:
Matthew 24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Revelation 13:5, 6
And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven

Revelation 13:15-18
And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Large Scale Slaughter:
Matthew 24:16-22
Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Revelation 13:7
And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Revelation 13:15
And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

False Christs Doing Miracles:
Matthew 24:23-26
Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Revelation 13:11-14
And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Second Coming of Jesus Christ:
Matthew 24:29-31
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 19:11-21
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Last Edited by Aenon on 12/12/2009 07:35 AM