Godlike Productions - Conspiracy Forum
Users Online Now: 1,375 (Who's On?)Visitors Today: 274,766
Pageviews Today: 545,393Threads Today: 261Posts Today: 5,301
11:52 AM


Rate this Thread

Absolute BS Crap Reasonable Nice Amazing
 

Bird-from-Dinosaur Theory of Evolution Challenged: Was It the Other Way Around?

 
VestanPance
Offer Upgrade

User ID: 884100
United Kingdom
02/10/2010 09:11 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Bird-from-Dinosaur Theory of Evolution Challenged: Was It the Other Way Around?
[link to www.sciencedaily.com]

A new study just published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences provides yet more evidence that birds did not descend from ground-dwelling theropod dinosaurs, experts say, and continues to challenge decades of accepted theories about the evolution of flight.

A new analysis was done of an unusual fossil specimen discovered in 2003 called "microraptor," in which three-dimensional models were used to study its possible flight potential, and it concluded this small, feathered species must have been a "glider" that came down from trees. The research is well done and consistent with a string of studies in recent years that pose increasing challenge to the birds-from-dinosaurs theory, said John Ruben, a professor of zoology at Oregon State University who authored a commentary in PNAS on the new research.
The weight of the evidence is now suggesting that not only did birds not descend from dinosaurs, Ruben said, but that some species now believed to be dinosaurs may have descended from birds.

"We're finally breaking out of the conventional wisdom of the last 20 years, which insisted that birds evolved from dinosaurs and that the debate is all over and done with," Ruben said. "This issue isn't resolved at all. There are just too many inconsistencies with the idea that birds had dinosaur ancestors, and this newest study adds to that."
Almost 20 years of research at OSU on the morphology of birds and dinosaurs, along with other studies and the newest PNAS research, Ruben said, are actually much more consistent with a different premise -- that birds may have had an ancient common ancestor with dinosaurs, but they evolved separately on their own path, and after millions of years of separate evolution birds also gave rise to the raptors. Small animals such as velociraptor that have generally been thought to be dinosaurs are more likely flightless birds, he said.

"Raptors look quite a bit like dinosaurs but they have much more in common with birds than they do with other theropod dinosaurs such as Tyrannosaurus," Ruben said. "We think the evidence is finally showing that these animals which are usually considered dinosaurs were actually descended from birds, not the other way around."
Another study last year from Florida State University raised similar doubts, Ruben said.

In the newest PNAS study, scientists examined a remarkable fossil specimen that had feathers on all four limbs, somewhat resembling a bi-plane. Glide tests based on its structure concluded it would not have been practical for it to have flown from the ground up, but it could have glided from the trees down, somewhat like a modern-day flying squirrel. Many researchers have long believed that gliders such as this were the ancestors of modern birds.

"This model was not consistent with successful flight from the ground up, and that makes it pretty difficult to make a case for a ground-dwelling theropod dinosaur to have developed wings and flown away," Ruben said. "On the other hand, it would have been quite possible for birds to have evolved and then, at some point, have various species lose their flight capabilities and become ground-dwelling, flightless animals -- the raptors. This may be hugely upsetting to a lot of people, but it makes perfect sense."
In their own research, including one study just last year in the Journal of Morphology, OSU scientists found that the position of the thigh bone and muscles in birds is critical to their ability to have adequate lung capacity for sustained long-distance flight, a fundamental aspect of bird biology. Theropod dinosaurs did not share this feature.

Other morphological features have also been identified that are inconsistent with a bird-from-dinosaur theory. And perhaps most significant, birds were already found in the fossil record before the elaboration of the dinosaurs they supposedly descended from. That would be consistent with raptors descending from birds, Ruben said, but not the reverse.

OSU research on avian biology and physiology has been raising questions on this issue since the 1990s, often in isolation. More scientists and other studies are now challenging the same premise, Ruben said. The old theories were popular, had public appeal and "many people saw what they wanted to see" instead of carefully interpreting the data, he said.

"Pesky new fossils...sharply at odds with conventional wisdom never seem to cease popping up," Ruben wrote in his PNAS commentary. "Given the vagaries of the fossil record, current notions of near resolution of many of the most basic questions about long-extinct forms should probably be regarded with caution."
Cheers.
-----------------------------
"Shit, if this is gonna be that kind of party, I'm going to stick my dick in the mashed potatoes."

"The gene pool is stagnant and I am the minister of chlorine"

"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence"
snakeman
User ID: 831901
United States
02/10/2010 09:18 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Bird-from-Dinosaur Theory of Evolution Challenged: Was It the Other Way Around?
I get excited, when I see things on here that lead to greater Wisdom....

The dinos are still hear.....now you see them....and you will again....soon...
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 852424
United States
02/10/2010 09:21 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Bird-from-Dinosaur Theory of Evolution Challenged: Was It the Other Way Around?
So, your point is that dinosaurs descended from birds?

banana2 banana2 banana2 banana2
VestanPance  (OP)

User ID: 884100
United Kingdom
02/10/2010 09:22 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Bird-from-Dinosaur Theory of Evolution Challenged: Was It the Other Way Around?
So, your point is that dinosaurs descended from birds?

banana2 banana2 banana2 banana2
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 852424

Its possible I guess.
Cheers.
-----------------------------
"Shit, if this is gonna be that kind of party, I'm going to stick my dick in the mashed potatoes."

"The gene pool is stagnant and I am the minister of chlorine"

"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence"
Dutchgael

User ID: 748916
Netherlands
02/10/2010 09:31 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Bird-from-Dinosaur Theory of Evolution Challenged: Was It the Other Way Around?
It's pretty clear that they have a common ancestor, the confusion is about where the lines split.
VestanPance  (OP)

User ID: 884100
United Kingdom
02/10/2010 09:33 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Bird-from-Dinosaur Theory of Evolution Challenged: Was It the Other Way Around?
It's pretty clear that they have a common ancestor, the confusion is about where the lines split.
 Quoting: Dutchgael

I agree.
Cheers.
-----------------------------
"Shit, if this is gonna be that kind of party, I'm going to stick my dick in the mashed potatoes."

"The gene pool is stagnant and I am the minister of chlorine"

"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence"
snakeman
User ID: 831901
United States
02/10/2010 09:48 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Bird-from-Dinosaur Theory of Evolution Challenged: Was It the Other Way Around?
It's pretty clear that they have a common ancestor, the confusion is about where the lines split.
 Quoting: Dutchgael


No confusion my friend, once you know and except the truth...

The dinos are still here, just not in their form that they were in and neither are you and me....

It all changed after the flood and the oxygen content went down and the dense atmosphere left us and SOLS UV and Gamma were dimmed by the shield and Co2 went down horribly also.....wich is friend/not foe to the environment...

No missing links can be found, because there are no missing links.....

For organisms that are suscesible to the suns rays at their most intense " when everything else changes also, " organisms change instantly.....change comes....hard and strong....

Ya, True Evolution can be explained in a waythat a child can understand, but many are still not listening, because it is not complicated enough for them.....

Sad, everything in this universe is simple too understand.....if you see it through the truth of your own eyes and not the dellusions of someone else or false teachings....
Dutchgael

User ID: 748916
Netherlands
02/10/2010 10:06 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Bird-from-Dinosaur Theory of Evolution Challenged: Was It the Other Way Around?
It all changed after the flood and the oxygen content went down and the dense atmosphere left us and SOLS UV and Gamma were dimmed by the shield and Co2 went down horribly also.....wich is friend/not foe to the environment...

No missing links can be found, because there are no missing links.....

For organisms that are suscesible to the suns rays at their most intense " when everything else changes also, " organisms change instantly.....change comes....hard and strong....

Ya, True Evolution can be explained in a waythat a child can understand, but many are still not listening, because it is not complicated enough for them.....

Sad, everything in this universe is simple too understand.....if you see it through the truth of your own eyes and not the dellusions of someone else or false teachings....
 Quoting: snakeman 831901


So the combination of flood + loss of atmosphere lead to an instant change from dinos to birds... does that summarize your easy explanation?
snakeman
User ID: 831901
United States
02/10/2010 12:58 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Bird-from-Dinosaur Theory of Evolution Challenged: Was It the Other Way Around?
Do not forget the UV and Gamma rays from the sun as it was seven times more intense back in the Golden Age, if you will...

It takes a combination of environmental conditions " including dense barometer " and gamma and UV increase from the sun, too change a cell into another evolved organism......

The sun will do it precisely and in a way that the cells of the new born organisms, will not mutate and die, but EVOLVE....

Almost everything that you see around you " with exception to extinct species since the last Big Evolution " has always been here.....just in a different form.....depending on the conditions of the environment.....

My poor misguided scientists brothers, just wish that evolution was as slow as they have spewed.....

Look inside my friend and you will see truth in my scattered words....
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 847175
Canada
02/10/2010 01:26 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Bird-from-Dinosaur Theory of Evolution Challenged: Was It the Other Way Around?
Monkeys are Devolved Men!
Only Me

User ID: 239124
United States
02/10/2010 01:44 PM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Bird-from-Dinosaur Theory of Evolution Challenged: Was It the Other Way Around?
well, that's pretty cool!
Goodbye, halcyon days.

Here is where I look back.
Here is where you fell.
This is where I got up,
Shaking off my tail
This is where your rope trick
Started to look stale.
A greyhound pass for the boy in the well.



 There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.

There is another theory mentioned, which states that this has already happened.