Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?

Ah the old parables argument - Jesus spoke in them so that only his followers would understand them.

So are you saying that the temptation of Jesus is a parable or are you saying Satan does have the power to tempt and corrupt Jesus?

Either way you are wrong! It is you who can't seem to understand the simplicities of this! Maybe you aren't the believer you believe you are?

The ultimate problem with simplistic belief is... self delusion!

I haven't rejected Jesus... I quote him more than you ever would!

I present the absolute problems with Paul's teachings regarding women. I show how wrong he was. YOU should know Jesus didn't teach these things and yet I am wrong.

Do you agree with Paul's teachings on women? Got some shears to start shaving heads?

WOW! CONGRATULATIONS you have proven what Jesus said

JESUS said, Mark 7:7-9 Their worship is a farce, for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.

For you ignore God’s law and substitute your own tradition.”

Then he said, “You skilfully sidestep God’s law in order to hold on to your own tradition.

AND

You were warned Paul's teachings can't be commandments!

JESUS said, Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

OOps Paul just lied again!

Whilst you believe the Bible, even the bits which denigrate GOD - I show time and time again why you are wrong using quotes from the Bible.

ANYTHING THAT UNDERMINES THE UNCONDITIONAL LOVE OF GOD AND GOD'S OMNISCIENCE IS WRONG!

Back to Christianity 101 for you!

Try to read your Bible with an inquiring mind... Like me, it was a gift from GOD you know!

Finally, another person who puts their brain into gear and actually assesses rationally.

Believers so often wander off on man's teachings when they should immerse themselves in Jesus' teachings in Matthew, Mark, Luke & John.

But they need to be wary there also as bits have been added later to even manipulate these books.

The reason people defend the Bible and people like Paul and Moses without reasonable analysis and study proves indoctrination works.

It has even disabled their abilities to comprehend what they are reading!

I would have thought GOD would have wanted us to use the intelligent brain that we have got rather than just accepting obviously flawed documents.

TY for your post AC!

Paul, who's full name was Apollonius, was the main author of Revelation and Christianity. So he could not have been false. Damis(Thomas), Lucius Plutarchus(Luke), Josephus(Joseph), and Emperor Titus(Titus) are also co-authors.

Appolonius has also been compared to Jesus unless you have another Appollonius in mind.

I haven't got the time toi go into all these details so here is a link for yuou to consider.

[link to www.truthbeknown.com]

This person has done considerable study into the matter.

Nay

He was the ringleader of a certain sect..

Paul is the author of the Revelations of John? News to me, not that it means much, though I have read some on who may have written what NT books. This is the first I've heard of it, care to provide a link?

Either way, I don't follow the logic of claiming Paul wrote Revelations, attributed to John, therefore he could not have been false.

From another thread I posted on....


There are three different versions of this "account" of Saul's in the book of Acts, all of which, contradict each other. The last thing Yahushua (Jesus) told the disciples about HIS return in Mt. 24 was that "many" would come in His name and should they CLAIM that he was in the wilderness, GO NOT FORTH, if the SECRET CHAMBERS, GO NOT FORTH. PERIOD. So. The word from the King of Kings is that HIS return would not be by a single eye witness or a few but in the words of John "Behold, He cometh with clouds, and every eye shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him, and all kindred of the earth shall wail because of Him, even so, Amen." WHEN HE returns it will be as the lightning in the east being seen also in the west. "In the mouth of 2 or 3 witnesses a thing is established". It is Paul's STORY that he met Yahusha and all of the sudden he claims to be THE APOSTLE TO THE GENTILES. See Acts...it is Peter who was assigned this task.

Go and understand what the prophecy Yahusha taught Peter after He rose and said when he is old another shall gird him and take him. Most of the disciples were martyrs and this does not carry with it a logical understanding of what Yah was teaching Peter. The apostles were notorious for misunderstanding His teaching. John indicates that they felt that Yahushua reffered to the way Peter would die...or did he. Nearly all of them were to meet this sort of fate. However, it is Peter 3:16 which girds Peter in the approval and acceptance of Paul's teachings and this is the ONLY verse that cites Saul's words with the scripture in being "hard to understand". It is under this testimony that Paul's doctrine begins to become the so-called enlightened version of what Yahushua taught. The churches today teach a Pauline doctrine which is diverse in all respects from the teachings that the CHOSEN apostles had followed...again read ACTS.

Paul claimed that if one would so much as become circumcised in order to be obedient to the LAW that he hoped they would "cut themselves off"...this is castration. He was SO opposed to keeping the Torah yet when he is confronted in Jerusalem he breaks this ideology and takes a NAZARITE VOW to prove himself "of the law".

Here was the lynch pin for me. There are 12 gates in the kingdom (REV) and none of them include Paul. He is NOT an apostle. HE states he was in no way behind the apostles who "seemed to be pillars" but "added nothing to me", He says he was possessed by a demon to keep him humble (read the scripture in Hab 2 and consider). He tells the churches he used trickery and deciet to teach them but Yah says in HIS SCRIPTURE that "cursed is he who does the work of YHWH deceitfully" Saul was taught by Gamaliel...research the occult, learn the TRUTH. There has been a war between esau and jacob since their birth. 13 BOOKS, Acts 13 (Paul shows up and instead of healing is doing the EXACT OPPOSITE), Mat 13 (LEARN the PARABLE of the wheat and the TARES), REV 13 (the BEAST), DEUT 13 (go and see what YHWH promised to prove you), ROMANS 13 (go and see what your Deut 28 reward will be for following these lies)

I was a teacher of Pauline Christianity and a modern day Pharisee for many years and now I can see the error and the lie. I would gladly accept scriptural rebuke for this doctrine but what I have found is the churchs are married to their doctrine not a spirit of truth. I have been seeking this out for many years now and have not heard ONE convincing apologetic (of appolo who is Satan/Saturn the BEAST system) to show me why to reject the teachings of yahushua and side with the SPECIAL REVELATION that Paul shares which are in direct contrast over and over again with the teachings of the LORD OF LORDS.

These are they who have kept the commandments and have the testimony of Yahushua...we are to KEEP HIS COMMANDS. They are forever. This is a test. We are to reject pagan teachings like Pauls (note that many of the beloved verses of Pauls are PAGAN ritualistic plays that were dedicated to gods that the LORD GOD HATES) Cor 13 the love chapter...not Paul bummer huh? Many others from "fear and trembling" to the recitation of pagan plays to King Agrippa in acts...and Agrippa says Paul you're mad from your great learning". also note IT'S NOT SCRIPTURE, PAGAN PLAYS ARE NOT SCRIPTURE OF THE MOST HIGH, PERIOD, EVEN IF PETER SAID THEY WERE DIRECTLY, EVEN IF A POWERFUL ANGEL SAID SO,. Woe to those who call good evil and evil good.

I've seen a lot of pathetic rebukes here which are rhetoric that I'd been taught to speak at one time as a 'defender of the faith" and the arguments are missing...just a rebuke that PAUL is who he says? What about the so-called OLD testament...which is not old and will NEVER fade away SEE MAT 5, I'm sorry, I missed heaven and earth passing....wait....HIS WORD WILL NEVER PASS AWAY. NEVER. Our confusion will however as Yah is not the author of confusion. (etymological pun intended) There are not 13 disciples, there are 12 who were appointed by Yah for our understanding and the correct teaching of the kingdom. Women are not to be silent in church, we are not to remain slaves obedient to masters, we are not slaves to Christ (HE called us his friends as we know our masters business), the holy teaching is not nailed to a cross (well He was but...after that 3rd day....which WAS NOT SUN-DAY).

If you are a true disciple looking to follow the WAY in TRUTH then you will accept nothing less than a proper understanding of the arguments met here, but many are fallen away from TRUTH and have inherited lies, vanity and things wherein there is NO profit. Tear out Paul and study the master intently as I did and you WILL SEE the stark contrast, the glaring dichotomy, the absolute clear truth that Paul at the very least is a lost brother who wanted to be a teacher but was not sent, never met Yahusha, didn't spend more than a few days with the apostles, yet is the MAIN TEACHING OF THE PAST 2000 years of EDOMITE TYRANNY that has wrought confusion, death, and HELL. He said "let there be factions (divisions/denominations) among you", Yah said I pray they will be ONE. There is ONE WAY. I pray for the lost here, I pray for further light from the King who is to return soon, may YHWH bring us peace and freedom from all the lies and seekers of vanity.

IF you have love for the Father and truly know the Son and you see error here, do not hesitate to share with me as I'm a follower of the master and these are the things I've been shown. Please don't tell me the devil is behind this doctrine or that the bible is inerrant as I'm not willing to debate this unless you are a truly enlightened by YHWH follower in the Way...and there's a spirit that is undeniable when that's the case and I'd love to hear from one who can defuse these statements I've made and show me my error should there be any. Should you have no idea that the NWO, Nephilim of old, the fallen of the book of Enoch, the edomite control, satanic agenda, Sir Francis Bacon, masonic, illuminatti, change in times and laws, 9-11, Madame Blavatsky, Lucis Trust, Digital Angel, RFID, Maitreya and Share International which is the religious funded branch of the U.N., social engineering, the Federal Reserve lies, the Banking Elite, the synagoge of Satan, Raj Patel, the mahdi, Sinada Emanuel, or the vast lists of LINKED CONSPIRATORS against the SAINTS OF THE MOST HIGH....If you don't know about the even the basics of this list then do NOT bother to rebuke me. Go and do your homework and seek the TRUTH. May YHWH bless you greatly,

ARGH! Duplicate unedited post.

Last Edited by Don'tBeAfraid on 01/15/2013 04:35 PM

What you say is interesting, but you realize it is directly counter to the teachings of the Church for the last two thousand years. As such, you'd have to produce some pretty significant proof of your assertions.

The Revelation to John was probably written way after the Second Epistle to Timothy. We think the Book of the Revelation to John was written around 100 AD. Timothy was written about 64 AD. As such your assertion is incorrect.

Reading through the rest.

Last Edited by Don'tBeAfraid on 01/15/2013 06:26 AM

no he was an apostle of christ
that is sent by him

paul was in persicution and imprisoned

Those who abandoned him Feared the same and death

8Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; 9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, 10But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: 11Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles. 12For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. 13Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 14That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.

15This thou knowest, that all they which are in Asia be turned away from me; of whom are Phygellus and Hermogenes. 16The Lord give mercy unto the house of Onesiphorus; for he oft refreshed me, and was not ashamed of my chain: 17But, when he was in Rome, he sought me out very diligently, and found me. 18The Lord grant unto him that he may find mercy of the Lord in that day: and in how many things he ministered unto me at Ephesus, thou knowest very well.

<< 2 Timothy 1 >>

Paul Preached faith in Jesus Christ as the only means of salvation

prove that was wrong.
You want to leach adherence to ceremonial law

yet even Jesus himself ate with gentiles
who were not veremonially circumcised nor was their food ritualistcly kosha

so paul only did was Jesus did

and as for paul going to jeruslaem and shaving his head so as not to offend the jewish believers
well again Jesus told the leper to sacrifice birds as a SIGN TO AUTHORITIES

1At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? 2And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, 3And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. 4Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me. 6But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.

FOLLOW JESUS AS PAUL PREACHED
AND LIVE IN GODS MERCY AND GRACE
OR FOLLOW THE LIARS WHO CLAIM PAUL WAS OPPOSED TO CHRIST
AND END UP BEING A ALVE TO THE LETTER OF THE LAW
INSTEAD OF HAVING IT WRITTEN ON YOUR HEARTS BY THE HOLY GHOST

FAITH!
1At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? 2And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, 3And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 10:40 "He who receives you receives me, and he who receives me receives the one who sent me.

Luke 10:16 "He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."


John 13:20 I tell you the truth, whoever accepts anyone I send accepts me; and whoever accepts me accepts the one who sent me."

John 13:20 I tell you the truth, whoever accepts anyone I send accepts me; and whoever accepts me accepts the one who sent me."


Galatians 4:14 Even though my illness was a trial to you, you did not treat me with contempt or scorn. Instead, you welcomed me as if I were an angel of God, as if I were Christ Jesus himself.


John 13:20 I tell you the truth, whoever accepts anyone I send accepts me; and whoever accepts me accepts the one who sent me."

I have been pondering the issue of Saul/Paul for quite some time. I think the evidence is overwhelmingly against Paul being a genuine "apostle."


To just scratch the surface of the evidence against Saul, consider the following:

1. Saul/Paul was NOT one of the original 12 Apostles, and was not the replacement for Judas. The Gospels and Book of Revelation makes clear that there are only 12 apostles. Yet Saul/Paul over and over in his epistles claims to be an "apostle."

YOU GOT RELIGION?
DONT YOU KNOW?


John 13:20 I tell you the truth, whoever accepts anyone I send accepts me; and whoever accepts me accepts the one who sent me."

EVEN A LTTLE CHILD

WAKE UP
ALL WHO BELIEVE IN JESUS ARE "SENT"

It's orders of magnitude worse than that.

In 2 Timothy 2:16-18, Paul condemns "pointless philosophical discussions" over the meaning of the Doctrine of "resurrection"; ridiculing those who say that the "resurrection has already taken place".

Jesus taught the Doctrine of "resurrection" as a Doctrine of 'Rebirth'; Chapter 27:52-53 of the Gospel of Matthew (echoed in Chapter 20:34-36 of the Gospel of Luke) being a figurative description of the revelation of the memories of previous lives received by some of the followers of Jesus at the time of the crucifixion. Thus, for those followers of Jesus, "the resurrection had already taken place."

So, Paul condemns as a heresy the Doctrine that Jesus was murdered for teaching.

This turning upside down of the Teaching of Jesus resulted in the demonization of "the Jews" and hundreds of years of Christian anti-Semitism culminating in the Holocaust.

In brief, Paul was an apostle alright: an apostle of Satan.

Michael

Saul who became Paul was never one of the apostles, he was a servant to God, a disciple, not a apostle. He was chosen, for a lot of reasons, one is that he was a zealot in his belief and after he was confronted and blinded by Christ, he was a zealot for Yahshua, or Emmanuel the Messiah, an that is the why it was. He also died for it like a lot of others.
Steven was murdered, praising God, Saul was there. God calls whom he chooses not man, even the worst people you can think of, and they become zealot for God, people don't like them either.

The demonization of "the Jews", Christian anti-Semitism and the Holocaust are either the consequence of the Teaching of Jesus or the consequence of the teaching of Paul.

The choice is inescapable.

Michael

by trying to make out paul denied christ when plainly he did not
and did not teach according to the Holy Spirits guidance which christ promised would come to all who believed in him as he also promised
to send many apostles and prophets who they would reject and kill as paul was killed but not soon enough for you fools seeminlgy but God had a job and a gospel to spread before he allowed all of them to die off at once at the hands of the devil!
by ALL YOUR doing this
you are rejecting christs own teachings and are disobeying Jesus Christ himself
when plainly he did not.
BUT YOU ARE

It was Paul who turned the Teaching of Jesus upside down.

This is why tens of thousands of Albigensians were exterminated (many of them by being burned alive) by the Roman church for teaching, as Jesus did, that the Doctrine of "resurrection" is a Doctrine of 'Rebirth'.

In order to understand this, you have to understand the argument that Paul presents in 2 Timothy 2:16-18.

Michael

Paul exterminated the followers of Jesus who believed that the Doctrine of "resurrection" is a Doctrine of 'Rebirth' because he was a Pharisee (referred to as the "synagogue of Satan" in the Revelation of John).

The Truth about the Teaching of Jesus is to be found in The Treatise on the Resurrection, found at Nag Hammadi.

Michael

You think that God wants us to use our intelligent brain when it comes to understanding scripture? Try understanding Genesis and you'll hopefully see that our own thoughts and desires lead us to reject truth in favour of believing lies. 

There is no need to "defend" Paul for truth speaks to those who learn to love the truth. 

"If any seem to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him know the things that I write to you, that they are the commandments of the Lord". 1 Corinthians 14:37

The Holy Spirit, who only speaks Truth, is telling you that Paul writes about the Lord's commands from a spiritual perspective - a HIGHER TRUTH THAN THE PHYSICAL TRUTH.

Paul was and is rejected by carnal Christians who'd rather  be slaves to carnal religion, just as the j*e*w*s of Jesus' days on Earth weren't about to give up their works for faith - that somehow they could save themselves by not eating pork and lighting a fire in their homes on the Sabbath. One cannot be spiritually transformed by thinking that those physical laws were the be and end all like a checklist. It's WHY they couldn't see or hear the Truth standing in front of them. "Thy law is truth". And it's one of the reasons why supposed Christians today reject the Holy Spirits writings through Paul. They cannot see nor hear that he's writing about the Lords commandments. They are stuck on pig. They can't see that pig represents anything higher, and so therefore they reject that higher for pig instead. There are THREE Heavens......do you reject this truth?

"So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction."

Stop making excuses through your own reasonings. The Holy Spirit has already declared to all of us what causes believers to either twist or distort Paul's writings - (which includes rejecting) - ignorance and unstableness. That's a bitter pill to swallow for prideful people, but one which should lead us into humbling ourselves and ditching pride. But instead, we do as Adam and Eve - reason away the truth of the matter. The truth is ignorant and unstable people distort and twist scripture. The only thing that causes us to reject that truth in favor of a lie is our OWN REASONINGS.

learn to read your bible lisa,,,you know this is another clown


pastor mike! lol

Not a clown Neim, but a very smart, learned and scholar of the scriptures. Watch his video.

Present your explanation of 2 Timothy 2:16-18.

Who was Paul arguing against?

Why did he call them heretics?

And how do you explain Chapter 27:52-53 of the Gospel of Matthew, for which there is NO historical record as having occurred in the observable, space-time reality?

Present your argument rather than just throwing stones.

Michael

Last Edited by 4Q529 on 01/15/2013 09:17 AM

no thank you I read and I study and I know this guy wise yes but not spiritually

you explain to me why in matthew mark luke and john have differences in the resurrection when the women went to the tomb. three different accounts

Does that make these men also false prophets?