Godlike Productions - Discussion Forum
Users Online Now: 1,584 (Who's On?)Visitors Today: 15,021
Pageviews Today: 39,760Threads Today: 18Posts Today: 401
12:33 AM


Rate this Thread

Absolute BS Crap Reasonable Nice Amazing
 

Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?

 
4Q529

User ID: 32264396
United States
01/15/2013 09:27 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
...


It was Paul who turned the Teaching of Jesus upside down.

This is why tens of thousands of Albigensians were exterminated (many of them by being burned alive) by the Roman church for teaching, as Jesus did, that the Doctrine of "resurrection" is a Doctrine of 'Rebirth'.

In order to understand this, you have to understand the argument that Paul presents in 2 Timothy 2:16-18.

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529


slander and talebearing tattlers
 Quoting: Neim-Ya'shar


Present your explanation of 2 Timothy 2:16-18.

Who was Paul arguing against?

Why did he call them heretics?

And how do you explain Chapter 27:52-53 of the Gospel of Matthew, for which there is NO historical record as having occurred in the observable, space-time reality?

Present your argument rather than just throwing stones.

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529


you explain to me why in matthew mark luke and john have differences in the resurrection when the women went to the tomb. three different accounts

Does that make these men also false prophets?
 Quoting: Neim-Ya'shar


You don't understand.

Pauline Christianity, in its entirety, collapses as a result of Chapter 27:52-53 of the Gospel of Matthew and 2 Timothy 2:16-18.

This was NOT an event in the real world.

So what do these passages refer to?

They are a figurative description of the revelation of the memories of previous lives.

Michael
Neim-Ya'shar

User ID: 32243100
United States
01/15/2013 09:27 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
Saul who became Paul was never one of the apostles, he was a servant to God, a disciple, not a apostle. He was chosen, for a lot of reasons, one is that he was a zealot in his belief and after he was confronted and blinded by Christ, he was a zealot for Yahshua, or Emmanuel the Messiah, an that is the why it was.
 Quoting: Daughter



The demonization of "the Jews", Christian anti-Semitism and the Holocaust are either the consequence of the Teaching of Jesus or the consequence of the teaching of Paul.

The choice is inescapable.

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529


I understand your bitterness with the pauline exaltation and it is a resentmant I express myself against those who uphold Pauls reengineered epistles to create this new christianity. In Pauls defense I must say his writngs are very hard for the average person to understand and has been compromised by the churches and given to the congregation as the rock of christian belief..They changed little words here and there.There were times paul was addressing a specific law but when they translated made it look like all of the law.Just like they did with the word jew in the bible.

Paul never contradicted what jesus established,its the twisted doctrines of the CATHOLIC Seminaries that engineered this scheme to carry on with lawless type of JESUS.This curriculum was passed on the the daughters of the harlot

Here is what peter wrote

15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

Last Edited by Neim-Ya'shar on 01/15/2013 09:30 AM
1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt,
42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land.
43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.
44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over.
45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.
46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come,
:knoup:
Neim-Ya'shar

User ID: 32243100
United States
01/15/2013 09:33 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
...


slander and talebearing tattlers
 Quoting: Neim-Ya'shar


Present your explanation of 2 Timothy 2:16-18.

Who was Paul arguing against?

Why did he call them heretics?

And how do you explain Chapter 27:52-53 of the Gospel of Matthew, for which there is NO historical record as having occurred in the observable, space-time reality?

Present your argument rather than just throwing stones.

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529


you explain to me why in matthew mark luke and john have differences in the resurrection when the women went to the tomb. three different accounts

Does that make these men also false prophets?
 Quoting: Neim-Ya'shar


You don't understand.

Pauline Christianity, in its entirety, collapses as a result of Chapter 27:52-53 of the Gospel of Matthew and 2 Timothy 2:16-18.

This was NOT an event in the real world.

So what do these passages refer to?

They are a figurative description of the revelation of the memories of previous lives.

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529


NO YOU NEED TO READ THE WORD AND STUDY WITH PRAYER AND YOU WILL SEE THROUGH THE FOLLY THAT PAUL IS NOT GUILTY HERE. THE PENS OF THE GENTILES WHO TRANSLATED THESE EPISTLES TO START THEIR OWN CHRISTIANITY.

I read and I see the folly but you have to undrstand the word and research with your concordance.
1 But these took this counsel among themselves, that they would leave the multitude of the heathen, and go forth into a further country, where never mankind dwelt,
42 That they might there keep their statutes, which they never kept in their own land.
43 And they entered into Euphrates by the narrow places of the river.
44 For the most High then shewed signs for them, and held still the flood, till they were passed over.
45 For through that country there was a great way to go, namely, of a year and a half: and the same region is called Arsareth.
46 Then dwelt they there until the latter time; and now when they shall begin to come,
:knoup:
ehecatl

User ID: 32192640
Mexico
01/15/2013 09:33 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
Paul a False Apostle? - Hit the nail on the head.

Definitely Paul was full of shit and propagandist. His message is nothing like what Jesus was stating.

Paul was a tool of the Roman Empire and the reason the Christian religion is so often screwed up these days.

However if people took Paul more seriously we would be living more like Muslims today, with all women in veils, etc.

Ive read the bible many times, know what I'm talking about, and no I am not going to take the time to look up the references atm.

Excellent idea for a thread though. If I find time I'll go back and study it some.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 32242516
United States
01/15/2013 09:44 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
yes. he was a complete phoney, and attention whore.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 554016
United States
01/15/2013 10:25 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
Saul persecuted christians for Rome up until the point that he (saw the light) realized that Christianity was growing too fast. Too many people were converting and he knew it was a loosing battle. If you cant beat em, Join em. And thats what he did. But as an agent of Rome. He was able to manipulate thier idea's and beliefs to "align" closer to Romes.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 32242516
United States
01/15/2013 10:35 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
Saul persecuted christians for Rome up until the point that he (saw the light) realized that Christianity was growing too fast. Too many people were converting and he knew it was a loosing battle. If you cant beat em, Join em. And thats what he did. But as an agent of Rome. He was able to manipulate thier idea's and beliefs to "align" closer to Romes.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 554016


nah. Paul just figured he could make more money scamming
the christians than he could killing them.
4Q529

User ID: 32268537
United States
01/15/2013 10:40 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
NO YOU NEED TO READ THE WORD AND STUDY WITH PRAYER AND YOU WILL SEE THROUGH THE FOLLY THAT PAUL IS NOT GUILTY HERE. THE PENS OF THE GENTILES WHO TRANSLATED THESE EPISTLES TO START THEIR OWN CHRISTIANITY.

I read and I see the folly but you have to undrstand the word and research with your concordance.
 Quoting: Neim-Ya'shar


"Thought experiments" are used in physics to demonstrate reality.

So, let me give you a "thought experiment" about the Satanic doctrine of "vicarious atonement":

Take any Christian you want who believes in the doctrine of "vicarious atonement", and place him or her on Calvary at the time of the crucifixion.

Any Christian would gleefully and single-handedly have to torture Jesus to death; because, if they didn't, there would be NO "vicarious atonement" for their sins and they would be sent to hell for eternity.

This is what is demanded by the doctrine of "vicarious atonement" itself: People so utterly terrified of going to hell that they would do ANYTHING--up to and including torturing JESUS to death--in order to escape such a fate.

Of course, it is all a psychotic delusion in the first place because Jesus was murdered not as any "vicarious atonement" for sins, but because he taught the "resurrection" as a Doctrine of 'Rebirth'.

So all of these Christians who would torture Jesus to death so they would not go to hell would be doing that for NO reason at all.

I call that SATANISM.

Michael
4Q529

User ID: 32268537
United States
01/15/2013 10:47 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
NO YOU NEED TO READ THE WORD AND STUDY WITH PRAYER AND YOU WILL SEE THROUGH THE FOLLY THAT PAUL IS NOT GUILTY HERE. THE PENS OF THE GENTILES WHO TRANSLATED THESE EPISTLES TO START THEIR OWN CHRISTIANITY.

I read and I see the folly but you have to undrstand the word and research with your concordance.
 Quoting: Neim-Ya'shar


The blood of millions of Jews--and 'heretics' like the Gnostics, the Albigensians and the Bogomiles--exterminated or tortured to death (during the Inquisition) by Christian anti-Semites over the past 1800 years scream that you are wrong.

But you cannot hear them.

Michael

Last Edited by 4Q529 on 01/15/2013 10:47 AM
Barabbas126
User ID: 32280082
United States
01/15/2013 03:41 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
Unless one knows from whence Saul of Tarsus comes all is conjecture & speculation. Saul of Tarsus, -aka the eventual Saint Paul is a fellow descendant of the House of Benjamin & the namesake of the 1st (anointed) 'King of the Jews', -disgraced & brought everlasting dishonor & shame upon his (King Saul's) descendants, -including Saul of Tarsus himself. (King Saul fell from the grace of 'the (unseen)Lord' by failing to "lay waste Amalec", -he was replaced by David (of the tribe of Judah). Some years later, in a battle against the Philistines, the former King "fell upon his own sword" (committed suicide), -exacerbating his & his descendents dishonor & shame. In the meantime, young Saul of Tarsus, as a person, was actually a flunk-out Pharisaic student of Gamaliel & 'a temple thug' (persecuting 'Christians' long before there were even 'Christian'). Saul of Tarsus was a resentful, hateful Jew who believed that he was unfairly denied the opportunity to live the 'royal-life' that was taken away from him. He, Saul of Tarsus, hated, with a vengeance, the 'descendents of David'... Pray-tell, what do you honestly think Saul of Tarsus thought & felt when 'the descendent of David' rode into Jerusalem on an ass, -the crowd proclaiming 'him': "Hosanna to the Son of David"?

I tell you truly, it was Saul of Tarsus who plotted the arrest & capture of his life-long nemeses, -sought to it that he, 'the descendent of David', was flogged to within an inch of he life' & then nailed to a Cross... for a to see & take notice.

It was Saul of Tarsus & his cohorts: Mark & Luke, who wrote the 'Holy Gospels' (none on whom ever even knew 'Jesus Christ', -but, rather, invented 'him'.

(There's more...)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1190661
Australia
01/15/2013 05:48 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
The point shown by all this back and forth is that there always seems to be a lot explanation and rationalization called for whenever we discuss Paul's many epistles. 

Some cling tenaciously to the idea because these writings have been included in the bible, God's plan is for us to view them as instructions written as if by His own hand even though the Bible itself offers no good reason we should believe that and in point of fact makes it clear we should be quite wary ever of doing so. 

Others will go so far as to claim Paul's words call for the 'spiritual' discernment to know the difference between when Paul is offering his own opinion vs. when the Holy Spirit is speaking directly through him. Not only is that a  convoluted approach but it flat out ignores all the tribulation that has resulted over several hundred years of taking Paul's word at face value, putting aside those that would twist even further the meanings for their own selfish gain. The subjugation of woman and the notion that we can best serve God by remaining unmarried are just two prime examples of Paul's skewed attitude that have been firmly incorporated into religious hierarchy.

Truth be told the epistles of Paul are just that, Paul's letters. We really only have Paul's word for it that he is a true Apostle and received his Gospel directly from the post resurrected spirit of Jesus. Jesus instructions in such a case are clear: we are to test that spirit and we shall know them by their fruits, not just blindly accept all they have to say as God given truth. 

We've had roughly two thousand years of the Gospel according to Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John being commingled with Paul's as if they all individually carried the same weight. Given the overall history of the Church even the simplest mind has to admit there's been a whole heap of fermentation all along. 

Do you love Paul? Fine, then stop believing he is God's #1 spokesperson and try with all your might to follow Jesus teachings. Rebuke every bit of evil within yourself before showing how 'Holy' you are by publicly rebuking the evil in others.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29634752


Finally, another person who puts their brain into gear and actually assesses rationally.

Believers so often wander off on man's teachings when they should immerse themselves in Jesus' teachings in Matthew, Mark, Luke & John.

But they need to be wary there also as bits have been added later to even manipulate these books.

The reason people defend the Bible and people like Paul and Moses without reasonable analysis and study proves indoctrination works.

It has even disabled their abilities to comprehend what they are reading!

I would have thought GOD would have wanted us to use the intelligent brain that we have got rather than just accepting obviously flawed documents.

TY for your post AC!

peace
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


You think that God wants us to use our intelligent brain when it comes to understanding scripture? Try understanding Genesis and you'll hopefully see that our own thoughts and desires lead us to reject truth in favour of believing lies. 

There is no need to "defend" Paul for truth speaks to those who learn to love the truth. 

"If any seem to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him know the things that I write to you, that they are the commandments of the Lord". 1 Corinthians 14:37

The Holy Spirit, who only speaks Truth, is telling you that Paul writes about the Lord's commands from a spiritual perspective - a HIGHER TRUTH THAN THE PHYSICAL TRUTH.

Paul was and is rejected by carnal Christians who'd rather  be slaves to carnal religion, just as the j*e*w*s of Jesus' days on Earth weren't about to give up their works for faith - that somehow they could save themselves by not eating pork and lighting a fire in their homes on the Sabbath. One cannot be spiritually transformed by thinking that those physical laws were the be and end all like a checklist. It's WHY they couldn't see or hear the Truth standing in front of them. "Thy law is truth". And it's one of the reasons why supposed Christians today reject the Holy Spirits writings through Paul. They cannot see nor hear that he's writing about the Lords commandments. They are stuck on pig. They can't see that pig represents anything higher, and so therefore they reject that higher for pig instead. There are THREE Heavens......do you reject this truth?

"So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. Bear in mind that our Lordís patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction."

Stop making excuses through your own reasonings. The Holy Spirit has already declared to all of us what causes believers to either twist or distort Paul's writings - (which includes rejecting) - ignorance and unstableness. That's a bitter pill to swallow for prideful people, but one which should lead us into humbling ourselves and ditching pride. But instead, we do as Adam and Eve - reason away the truth of the matter. The truth is ignorant and unstable people distort and twist scripture. The only thing that causes us to reject that truth in favor of a lie is our OWN REASONINGS.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32209332


Congratulations! You just proved all your own points!

You reasoned that your reasoning, even defending the unGODly, is GODly.

Your simple belief, and simple it is, is that the Bible is GOD's word, and that an oppressor of women like Paul, is correct. Afterall men in the Bible put "GOD said" in front of things - so it must be true, he must have said it - men never lie! 1rof1

Paul's writings, on women, haven't been distorted, you are distorting his greatness, by ignoring what Paul is alleged to have actually said.

Paul, through his writings, has oppressed 50% of the population (women), for nearly 2000 years.

Women are NOT allowed to teach, and should be silent referring only to their husbands. Why have you missed such obvious flaws in his teachings? Do you want women to be silent?

Show me where Jesus taught on women what Paul taught on that same topic!

JESUS said, Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Paul amazingly pretends that everything he quotes is a commandment from the Lord

1 Corinthians 14:37 "If any seem to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him know the things that I write to you, that they are the commandments of the Lord".

How come Jesus didn't oppress women like Paul did?

If you truly believe what Paul wrote is "from GOD" and what he writes are "Commandments" why aren't you shaving women's uncovered heads in Church?

Why aren't you forcing women to be silent?

Why aren't you oppressing women?

Do you really love and follow GOD when you continually and knowingly break GOD's commandments on women delivered through Paul?

Do women in your Church cover their heads?

Do you see "the log" in your own eye?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 974998
United States
02/05/2013 01:18 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
Fact is, no Paul=no christianity.

See the history of Europe and ask how long a few churches in asia would of lasted.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 900128



Exactly. Paul is the father of the modern chuch and Christ is the head of the true church.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1190661
Australia
03/15/2013 12:05 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
Fact is, no Paul=no christianity.

See the history of Europe and ask how long a few churches in asia would of lasted.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 900128



Exactly. Paul is the father of the modern chuch and Christ is the head of the true church.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 974998



SO Paul is more important than Jesus?

No Paul = No Christianity?

What have you built this religion on?

WOW! you people sure just don't get it.

So that is why you can't let go of Paul.

You believe him to be more important than Jesus!

Whilst I appreciate your honesty, I think you have admitted to far more than you realise here with two tiny posts.

hf
4Q529

User ID: 36225744
United States
03/15/2013 12:47 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
Fact is, no Paul=no christianity.

See the history of Europe and ask how long a few churches in asia would of lasted.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 900128



Exactly. Paul is the father of the modern chuch and Christ is the head of the true church.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 974998



SO Paul is more important than Jesus?

No Paul = No Christianity?

What have you built this religion on?

WOW! you people sure just don't get it.

So that is why you can't let go of Paul.

You believe him to be more important than Jesus!

Whilst I appreciate your honesty, I think you have admitted to far more than you realise here with two tiny posts.

hf
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


Ever hear of a "necessary evil"?

Paul completely perverted the Teaching of Jesus to the point that it resulted directly in the Holocaust 1900 years later.

But I have never denied that Paul's perversion of that Teaching was a necessary evil.

Without Paul, few would ever even have heard of Jesus. Any attempt to convey the Teaching of Jesus undistilled to the idolators of the Roman empire would have failed completely.

Some 2000 years later, understanding that the Doctrine of "resurrection" was taught by Jesus as a Doctrine of 'Rebirth' still confronts the fundamental inclination of people towards idolatry.

They prefer to worship Jesus as 'God' rather than to understand his Teaching; out of fear that they will go to hell if they do not believe the teaching of Paul.

These Satanist Christians who simply cannot abide the Truth about the Teaching of Jesus are, fundamentally, NO different than the idolators to which the original followers of Jesus had to convey that Teaching.

But, now that there are hundreds of millions of followers of Paul, thinking that they are followers of Jesus, it should finally be known--in fulfillment of the Prophecy in Chapter 12, verse 9 of the Book of Daniel, that "these words will remain secret and sealed until the time of the End"--that Jesus taught a Doctrine of 'Rebirth'; no matter how much the idolators detest that Truth.

Michael
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1190661
Australia
03/15/2013 02:09 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
Fact is, no Paul=no christianity.

See the history of Europe and ask how long a few churches in asia would of lasted.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 900128



Exactly. Paul is the father of the modern chuch and Christ is the head of the true church.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 974998



SO Paul is more important than Jesus?

No Paul = No Christianity?

What have you built this religion on?

WOW! you people sure just don't get it.

So that is why you can't let go of Paul.

You believe him to be more important than Jesus!

Whilst I appreciate your honesty, I think you have admitted to far more than you realise here with two tiny posts.

hf
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


Ever hear of a "necessary evil"?

Paul completely perverted the Teaching of Jesus to the point that it resulted directly in the Holocaust 1900 years later.

But I have never denied that Paul's perversion of that Teaching was a necessary evil.

Without Paul, few would ever even have heard of Jesus. Any attempt to convey the Teaching of Jesus undistilled to the idolators of the Roman empire would have failed completely.

Some 2000 years later, understanding that the Doctrine of "resurrection" was taught by Jesus as a Doctrine of 'Rebirth' still confronts the fundamental inclination of people towards idolatry.

They prefer to worship Jesus as 'God' rather than to understand his Teaching; out of fear that they will go to hell if they do not believe the teaching of Paul.

These Satanist Christians who simply cannot abide the Truth about the Teaching of Jesus are, fundamentally, NO different than the idolators to which the original followers of Jesus had to convey that Teaching.

But, now that there are hundreds of millions of followers of Paul, thinking that they are followers of Jesus, it should finally be known--in fulfillment of the Prophecy in Chapter 12, verse 9 of the Book of Daniel, that "these words will remain secret and sealed until the time of the End"--that Jesus taught a Doctrine of 'Rebirth'; no matter how much the idolators detest that Truth.

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529


I've personally used the term 'necessary evil" but I'm not sure if I would apply it to Paul.

Was Paul really necessary?

GOD could have sent another who didn't pervert the teachings. GOD is omniscient afterall.

Other than that I don't have a problem in what you have outlined.

People who claim to be Christian do tend to live in Paul-land a bit too much when Jesus' alleged teachings are there to be seen in the gospels.

Every time I use quotes from the Bible I get attacked. The inerrant word of GOD is only inerrant when it suits them...lol

I enjoyed your post Michael... Thank You!

hf
4Q529

User ID: 2274033
United States
03/15/2013 03:29 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
...



Exactly. Paul is the father of the modern chuch and Christ is the head of the true church.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 974998



SO Paul is more important than Jesus?

No Paul = No Christianity?

What have you built this religion on?

WOW! you people sure just don't get it.

So that is why you can't let go of Paul.

You believe him to be more important than Jesus!

Whilst I appreciate your honesty, I think you have admitted to far more than you realise here with two tiny posts.

hf
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


Ever hear of a "necessary evil"?

Paul completely perverted the Teaching of Jesus to the point that it resulted directly in the Holocaust 1900 years later.

But I have never denied that Paul's perversion of that Teaching was a necessary evil.

Without Paul, few would ever even have heard of Jesus. Any attempt to convey the Teaching of Jesus undistilled to the idolators of the Roman empire would have failed completely.

Some 2000 years later, understanding that the Doctrine of "resurrection" was taught by Jesus as a Doctrine of 'Rebirth' still confronts the fundamental inclination of people towards idolatry.

They prefer to worship Jesus as 'God' rather than to understand his Teaching; out of fear that they will go to hell if they do not believe the teaching of Paul.

These Satanist Christians who simply cannot abide the Truth about the Teaching of Jesus are, fundamentally, NO different than the idolators to which the original followers of Jesus had to convey that Teaching.

But, now that there are hundreds of millions of followers of Paul, thinking that they are followers of Jesus, it should finally be known--in fulfillment of the Prophecy in Chapter 12, verse 9 of the Book of Daniel, that "these words will remain secret and sealed until the time of the End"--that Jesus taught a Doctrine of 'Rebirth'; no matter how much the idolators detest that Truth.

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529


I've personally used the term 'necessary evil" but I'm not sure if I would apply it to Paul.

Was Paul really necessary?

GOD could have sent another who didn't pervert the teachings. GOD is omniscient afterall.

Other than that I don't have a problem in what you have outlined.

People who claim to be Christian do tend to live in Paul-land a bit too much when Jesus' alleged teachings are there to be seen in the gospels.

Every time I use quotes from the Bible I get attacked. The inerrant word of GOD is only inerrant when it suits them...lol

I enjoyed your post Michael... Thank You!

hf
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


Unfortunately, although appreciated, it is not particularly helpful that you 'enjoy' my writings.

Next on the agenda for those who believe the demonic doctrines of Paul--after exterminating millions of Jews, heretics, black peoples of Africa, Muslims, etc., etc.--is to exterminate human civilization itself.

And all indications are that they are going to succeed.

There can be only ONE survivor here.

Christianity must be DESTROYED, before it results in the near-annihilation of human civilization.

Not talking about killing anyone here.

Talking about destroying the doctrines of Satan with the wide publicizing of the Truth about the Doctrine of "resurrection"--in fulfillment of the Prophecy in Chapter 12, verse 9 of the Book of Daniel--which the "dragon" media and the "false prophet" monotheistic religious 'authorities' are PREVENTING.

What civilization needs here is not that you enjoy my writings but that you help in getting this information to the media officials and the religious 'authorities'.

Michael
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1190661
Australia
03/15/2013 07:12 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
...



SO Paul is more important than Jesus?

No Paul = No Christianity?

What have you built this religion on?

WOW! you people sure just don't get it.

So that is why you can't let go of Paul.

You believe him to be more important than Jesus!

Whilst I appreciate your honesty, I think you have admitted to far more than you realise here with two tiny posts.

hf
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


Ever hear of a "necessary evil"?

Paul completely perverted the Teaching of Jesus to the point that it resulted directly in the Holocaust 1900 years later.

But I have never denied that Paul's perversion of that Teaching was a necessary evil.

Without Paul, few would ever even have heard of Jesus. Any attempt to convey the Teaching of Jesus undistilled to the idolators of the Roman empire would have failed completely.

Some 2000 years later, understanding that the Doctrine of "resurrection" was taught by Jesus as a Doctrine of 'Rebirth' still confronts the fundamental inclination of people towards idolatry.

They prefer to worship Jesus as 'God' rather than to understand his Teaching; out of fear that they will go to hell if they do not believe the teaching of Paul.

These Satanist Christians who simply cannot abide the Truth about the Teaching of Jesus are, fundamentally, NO different than the idolators to which the original followers of Jesus had to convey that Teaching.

But, now that there are hundreds of millions of followers of Paul, thinking that they are followers of Jesus, it should finally be known--in fulfillment of the Prophecy in Chapter 12, verse 9 of the Book of Daniel, that "these words will remain secret and sealed until the time of the End"--that Jesus taught a Doctrine of 'Rebirth'; no matter how much the idolators detest that Truth.

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529


I've personally used the term 'necessary evil" but I'm not sure if I would apply it to Paul.

Was Paul really necessary?

GOD could have sent another who didn't pervert the teachings. GOD is omniscient afterall.

Other than that I don't have a problem in what you have outlined.

People who claim to be Christian do tend to live in Paul-land a bit too much when Jesus' alleged teachings are there to be seen in the gospels.

Every time I use quotes from the Bible I get attacked. The inerrant word of GOD is only inerrant when it suits them...lol

I enjoyed your post Michael... Thank You!

hf
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


Unfortunately, although appreciated, it is not particularly helpful that you 'enjoy' my writings.

Next on the agenda for those who believe the demonic doctrines of Paul--after exterminating millions of Jews, heretics, black peoples of Africa, Muslims, etc., etc.--is to exterminate human civilization itself.

And all indications are that they are going to succeed.

There can be only ONE survivor here.

Christianity must be DESTROYED, before it results in the near-annihilation of human civilization.

Not talking about killing anyone here.

Talking about destroying the doctrines of Satan with the wide publicizing of the Truth about the Doctrine of "resurrection"--in fulfillment of the Prophecy in Chapter 12, verse 9 of the Book of Daniel--which the "dragon" media and the "false prophet" monotheistic religious 'authorities' are PREVENTING.

What civilization needs here is not that you enjoy my writings but that you help in getting this information to the media officials and the religious 'authorities'.

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529


Getting a bit out there in crazy land there Michael..

Doubt I can come with you for the ride on this one.

My enjoyment was very short lived.

goodnews
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 36238525
United Kingdom
03/15/2013 08:14 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
The point shown by all this back and forth is that there always seems to be a lot explanation and rationalization called for whenever we discuss Paul's many epistles. 

Some cling tenaciously to the idea because these writings have been included in the bible, God's plan is for us to view them as instructions written as if by His own hand even though the Bible itself offers no good reason we should believe that and in point of fact makes it clear we should be quite wary ever of doing so. 

Others will go so far as to claim Paul's words call for the 'spiritual' discernment to know the difference between when Paul is offering his own opinion vs. when the Holy Spirit is speaking directly through him. Not only is that a  convoluted approach but it flat out ignores all the tribulation that has resulted over several hundred years of taking Paul's word at face value, putting aside those that would twist even further the meanings for their own selfish gain. The subjugation of woman and the notion that we can best serve God by remaining unmarried are just two prime examples of Paul's skewed attitude that have been firmly incorporated into religious hierarchy.

Truth be told the epistles of Paul are just that, Paul's letters. We really only have Paul's word for it that he is a true Apostle and received his Gospel directly from the post resurrected spirit of Jesus. Jesus instructions in such a case are clear: we are to test that spirit and we shall know them by their fruits, not just blindly accept all they have to say as God given truth. 

We've had roughly two thousand years of the Gospel according to Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John being commingled with Paul's as if they all individually carried the same weight. Given the overall history of the Church even the simplest mind has to admit there's been a whole heap of fermentation all along. 

Do you love Paul? Fine, then stop believing he is God's #1 spokesperson and try with all your might to follow Jesus teachings. Rebuke every bit of evil within yourself before showing how 'Holy' you are by publicly rebuking the evil in others.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 29634752


Finally, another person who puts their brain into gear and actually assesses rationally.

Believers so often wander off on man's teachings when they should immerse themselves in Jesus' teachings in Matthew, Mark, Luke & John.

But they need to be wary there also as bits have been added later to even manipulate these books.

The reason people defend the Bible and people like Paul and Moses without reasonable analysis and study proves indoctrination works.

It has even disabled their abilities to comprehend what they are reading!

I would have thought GOD would have wanted us to use the intelligent brain that we have got rather than just accepting obviously flawed documents.

TY for your post AC!

peace
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


You think that God wants us to use our intelligent brain when it comes to understanding scripture? Try understanding Genesis and you'll hopefully see that our own thoughts and desires lead us to reject truth in favour of believing lies. 

There is no need to "defend" Paul for truth speaks to those who learn to love the truth. 

"If any seem to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him know the things that I write to you, that they are the commandments of the Lord". 1 Corinthians 14:37

The Holy Spirit, who only speaks Truth, is telling you that Paul writes about the Lord's commands from a spiritual perspective - a HIGHER TRUTH THAN THE PHYSICAL TRUTH.

Paul was and is rejected by carnal Christians who'd rather  be slaves to carnal religion, just as the j*e*w*s of Jesus' days on Earth weren't about to give up their works for faith - that somehow they could save themselves by not eating pork and lighting a fire in their homes on the Sabbath. One cannot be spiritually transformed by thinking that those physical laws were the be and end all like a checklist. It's WHY they couldn't see or hear the Truth standing in front of them. "Thy law is truth". And it's one of the reasons why supposed Christians today reject the Holy Spirits writings through Paul. They cannot see nor hear that he's writing about the Lords commandments. They are stuck on pig. They can't see that pig represents anything higher, and so therefore they reject that higher for pig instead. There are THREE Heavens......do you reject this truth?

"So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. Bear in mind that our Lordís patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction."

Stop making excuses through your own reasonings. The Holy Spirit has already declared to all of us what causes believers to either twist or distort Paul's writings - (which includes rejecting) - ignorance and unstableness. That's a bitter pill to swallow for prideful people, but one which should lead us into humbling ourselves and ditching pride. But instead, we do as Adam and Eve - reason away the truth of the matter. The truth is ignorant and unstable people distort and twist scripture. The only thing that causes us to reject that truth in favor of a lie is our OWN REASONINGS.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32209332


Congratulations! You just proved all your own points!

You reasoned that your reasoning, even defending the unGODly, is GODly.

Your simple belief, and simple it is, is that the Bible is GOD's word, and that an oppressor of women like Paul, is correct. Afterall men in the Bible put "GOD said" in front of things - so it must be true, he must have said it - men never lie! 1rof1

Paul's writings, on women, haven't been distorted, you are distorting his greatness, by ignoring what Paul is alleged to have actually said.

Paul, through his writings, has oppressed 50% of the population (women), for nearly 2000 years.

Women are NOT allowed to teach, and should be silent referring only to their husbands. Why have you missed such obvious flaws in his teachings? Do you want women to be silent?

Show me where Jesus taught on women what Paul taught on that same topic!

JESUS said, Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Paul amazingly pretends that everything he quotes is a commandment from the Lord

1 Corinthians 14:37 "If any seem to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him know the things that I write to you, that they are the commandments of the Lord".

How come Jesus didn't oppress women like Paul did?

If you truly believe what Paul wrote is "from GOD" and what he writes are "Commandments" why aren't you shaving women's uncovered heads in Church?

Why aren't you forcing women to be silent?

Why aren't you oppressing women?

Do you really love and follow GOD when you continually and knowingly break GOD's commandments on women delivered through Paul?

Do women in your Church cover their heads?

Do you see "the log" in your own eye?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


29Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. 32The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. 33For God is not a God of disorder but of peaceóas in all the congregations of the Lordís people.

34Womenf should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

Again, you are so obsessed with what churches have done that you are letting MANS DOCTRINES interfere with what the Holy Spirit through Paul is STATING. I've even bolded it for you. The SPIRIT OF THE PROPHET is to be in subjection TO THE PROPHET.

This goes back to Adam and eve. Think about your MIND.

So, please, carry on debating the doctrine of men, for when we do that, we cannot learn through His Spirit .
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1190661
Australia
03/15/2013 09:18 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
...


Finally, another person who puts their brain into gear and actually assesses rationally.

Believers so often wander off on man's teachings when they should immerse themselves in Jesus' teachings in Matthew, Mark, Luke & John.

But they need to be wary there also as bits have been added later to even manipulate these books.

The reason people defend the Bible and people like Paul and Moses without reasonable analysis and study proves indoctrination works.

It has even disabled their abilities to comprehend what they are reading!

I would have thought GOD would have wanted us to use the intelligent brain that we have got rather than just accepting obviously flawed documents.

TY for your post AC!

peace
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


You think that God wants us to use our intelligent brain when it comes to understanding scripture? Try understanding Genesis and you'll hopefully see that our own thoughts and desires lead us to reject truth in favour of believing lies. 

There is no need to "defend" Paul for truth speaks to those who learn to love the truth. 

"If any seem to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him know the things that I write to you, that they are the commandments of the Lord". 1 Corinthians 14:37

The Holy Spirit, who only speaks Truth, is telling you that Paul writes about the Lord's commands from a spiritual perspective - a HIGHER TRUTH THAN THE PHYSICAL TRUTH.

Paul was and is rejected by carnal Christians who'd rather  be slaves to carnal religion, just as the j*e*w*s of Jesus' days on Earth weren't about to give up their works for faith - that somehow they could save themselves by not eating pork and lighting a fire in their homes on the Sabbath. One cannot be spiritually transformed by thinking that those physical laws were the be and end all like a checklist. It's WHY they couldn't see or hear the Truth standing in front of them. "Thy law is truth". And it's one of the reasons why supposed Christians today reject the Holy Spirits writings through Paul. They cannot see nor hear that he's writing about the Lords commandments. They are stuck on pig. They can't see that pig represents anything higher, and so therefore they reject that higher for pig instead. There are THREE Heavens......do you reject this truth?

"So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. Bear in mind that our Lordís patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction."

Stop making excuses through your own reasonings. The Holy Spirit has already declared to all of us what causes believers to either twist or distort Paul's writings - (which includes rejecting) - ignorance and unstableness. That's a bitter pill to swallow for prideful people, but one which should lead us into humbling ourselves and ditching pride. But instead, we do as Adam and Eve - reason away the truth of the matter. The truth is ignorant and unstable people distort and twist scripture. The only thing that causes us to reject that truth in favor of a lie is our OWN REASONINGS.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32209332


Congratulations! You just proved all your own points!

You reasoned that your reasoning, even defending the unGODly, is GODly.

Your simple belief, and simple it is, is that the Bible is GOD's word, and that an oppressor of women like Paul, is correct. Afterall men in the Bible put "GOD said" in front of things - so it must be true, he must have said it - men never lie! 1rof1

Paul's writings, on women, haven't been distorted, you are distorting his greatness, by ignoring what Paul is alleged to have actually said.

Paul, through his writings, has oppressed 50% of the population (women), for nearly 2000 years.

Women are NOT allowed to teach, and should be silent referring only to their husbands. Why have you missed such obvious flaws in his teachings? Do you want women to be silent?

Show me where Jesus taught on women what Paul taught on that same topic!

JESUS said, Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Paul amazingly pretends that everything he quotes is a commandment from the Lord

1 Corinthians 14:37 "If any seem to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him know the things that I write to you, that they are the commandments of the Lord".

How come Jesus didn't oppress women like Paul did?

If you truly believe what Paul wrote is "from GOD" and what he writes are "Commandments" why aren't you shaving women's uncovered heads in Church?

Why aren't you forcing women to be silent?

Why aren't you oppressing women?

Do you really love and follow GOD when you continually and knowingly break GOD's commandments on women delivered through Paul?

Do women in your Church cover their heads?

Do you see "the log" in your own eye?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


29Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. 32The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. 33For God is not a God of disorder but of peaceóas in all the congregations of the Lordís people.

34Womenf should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

Again, you are so obsessed with what churches have done that you are letting MANS DOCTRINES interfere with what the Holy Spirit through Paul is STATING. I've even bolded it for you. The SPIRIT OF THE PROPHET is to be in subjection TO THE PROPHET.

This goes back to Adam and eve. Think about your MIND.

So, please, carry on debating the doctrine of men, for when we do that, we cannot learn through His Spirit .
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36238525


Well you believe in the spirit through Paul... I choose to believe in the spirit of GOD. I don't need an intermediary but you obviously do.

I don't need Paul to corrupt it. Paul is just a man.

My mind is fine.. think about yours!

Your post makes no sense.. If you believe thart the Holy Spirit is telling people to oppress women through Paul... YOU are wrong.

I'm not obsessed with anything.

I do however, think that believers like you, diminish GOD's intellect down to your own.

Why do you believe your GOD is so unintelligent?

GOD doesn't oppress anyone!

tantrum
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 36238525
United Kingdom
03/15/2013 09:22 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
NO YOU NEED TO READ THE WORD AND STUDY WITH PRAYER AND YOU WILL SEE THROUGH THE FOLLY THAT PAUL IS NOT GUILTY HERE. THE PENS OF THE GENTILES WHO TRANSLATED THESE EPISTLES TO START THEIR OWN CHRISTIANITY.

I read and I see the folly but you have to undrstand the word and research with your concordance.
 Quoting: Neim-Ya'shar


The blood of millions of Jews--and 'heretics' like the Gnostics, the Albigensians and the Bogomiles--exterminated or tortured to death (during the Inquisition) by Christian anti-Semites over the past 1800 years scream that you are wrong.

But you cannot hear them.

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529



And in her (the whore of Babylon) was found the blood of prophets and saints, and of all the slain upon the earth.

THAT IS WHO IS RESPONSIBLE, PER SCRIPTURE, FOR ALL THE BLOOD SHED ON THE EARTH.

Why don't you ask the Jews about their Babylonian Talmud, which as the pushers of the whore of Babylon religion through its Talmud and Kabalah, were directly responsible for those deaths? The whore of Babylon is infectious, all around the world in every religion and secular society.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 36238525
United Kingdom
03/15/2013 10:31 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
...


You think that God wants us to use our intelligent brain when it comes to understanding scripture? Try understanding Genesis and you'll hopefully see that our own thoughts and desires lead us to reject truth in favour of believing lies. 

There is no need to "defend" Paul for truth speaks to those who learn to love the truth. 

"If any seem to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him know the things that I write to you, that they are the commandments of the Lord". 1 Corinthians 14:37

The Holy Spirit, who only speaks Truth, is telling you that Paul writes about the Lord's commands from a spiritual perspective - a HIGHER TRUTH THAN THE PHYSICAL TRUTH.

Paul was and is rejected by carnal Christians who'd rather  be slaves to carnal religion, just as the j*e*w*s of Jesus' days on Earth weren't about to give up their works for faith - that somehow they could save themselves by not eating pork and lighting a fire in their homes on the Sabbath. One cannot be spiritually transformed by thinking that those physical laws were the be and end all like a checklist. It's WHY they couldn't see or hear the Truth standing in front of them. "Thy law is truth". And it's one of the reasons why supposed Christians today reject the Holy Spirits writings through Paul. They cannot see nor hear that he's writing about the Lords commandments. They are stuck on pig. They can't see that pig represents anything higher, and so therefore they reject that higher for pig instead. There are THREE Heavens......do you reject this truth?

"So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. Bear in mind that our Lordís patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction."

Stop making excuses through your own reasonings. The Holy Spirit has already declared to all of us what causes believers to either twist or distort Paul's writings - (which includes rejecting) - ignorance and unstableness. That's a bitter pill to swallow for prideful people, but one which should lead us into humbling ourselves and ditching pride. But instead, we do as Adam and Eve - reason away the truth of the matter. The truth is ignorant and unstable people distort and twist scripture. The only thing that causes us to reject that truth in favor of a lie is our OWN REASONINGS.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 32209332


Congratulations! You just proved all your own points!

You reasoned that your reasoning, even defending the unGODly, is GODly.

Your simple belief, and simple it is, is that the Bible is GOD's word, and that an oppressor of women like Paul, is correct. Afterall men in the Bible put "GOD said" in front of things - so it must be true, he must have said it - men never lie! 1rof1

Paul's writings, on women, haven't been distorted, you are distorting his greatness, by ignoring what Paul is alleged to have actually said.

Paul, through his writings, has oppressed 50% of the population (women), for nearly 2000 years.

Women are NOT allowed to teach, and should be silent referring only to their husbands. Why have you missed such obvious flaws in his teachings? Do you want women to be silent?

Show me where Jesus taught on women what Paul taught on that same topic!

JESUS said, Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Paul amazingly pretends that everything he quotes is a commandment from the Lord

1 Corinthians 14:37 "If any seem to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him know the things that I write to you, that they are the commandments of the Lord".

How come Jesus didn't oppress women like Paul did?

If you truly believe what Paul wrote is "from GOD" and what he writes are "Commandments" why aren't you shaving women's uncovered heads in Church?

Why aren't you forcing women to be silent?

Why aren't you oppressing women?

Do you really love and follow GOD when you continually and knowingly break GOD's commandments on women delivered through Paul?

Do women in your Church cover their heads?

Do you see "the log" in your own eye?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


29Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. 32The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. 33For God is not a God of disorder but of peaceóas in all the congregations of the Lordís people.

34Womenf should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

Again, you are so obsessed with what churches have done that you are letting MANS DOCTRINES interfere with what the Holy Spirit through Paul is STATING. I've even bolded it for you. The SPIRIT OF THE PROPHET is to be in subjection TO THE PROPHET.

This goes back to Adam and eve. Think about your MIND.

So, please, carry on debating the doctrine of men, for when we do that, we cannot learn through His Spirit .
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36238525


Well you believe in the spirit through Paul... I choose to believe in the spirit of GOD. I don't need an intermediary but you obviously do.

I don't need Paul to corrupt it. Paul is just a man.

My mind is fine.. think about yours!

Your post makes no sense.. If you believe thart the Holy Spirit is telling people to oppress women through Paul... YOU are wrong.

I'm not obsessed with anything.

I do however, think that believers like you, diminish GOD's intellect down to your own.

Why do you believe your GOD is so unintelligent?

GOD doesn't oppress anyone!

tantrum
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


You didn't hear one word that was written because of your presuppositions, so much so that you cannot even hear what the Holy Spirit is teaching.

The SPIRIT OF THE PROPHET is subject to THE PROPHET.
= WOMAN is to be subject to THE MAN

ADAM LISTENED TO EVE
= THE MAN listened to HIS OWN SPIRIT
= THE MAN listened to THE WOMAN

Adam's will prevailed.
Read Isaiah 14
I WILL
I WILL
I WILL
I WILL
I WILL

JESUS:
HIS WILL
HIS WILL
HIS WILL

Look at your words and tell me, did I say anything of what you just wrote? No. You categorically dismissed me like you did Paul's writing above BECAUSE OF WHAT'S ALREADY OCCUPYING YOUR MIND. Everything that you ASSUMED that I said, I DIDN'T SAY.
Every one of your assumptions is BLOCKING what the Holy Spirit is trying to teach you.
4Q529

User ID: 2274033
United States
03/15/2013 10:59 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
Getting a bit out there in crazy land there Michael..
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


Then you are orders of magnitude stupider than I thought you were.

The Egyptian 'god of the dead' doctrine of the physical raising of a dead body from the grave is common to Judaism, Christianity and Islam. And, because that Satanic doctrine substitutes for the Truth about the Doctrine of "resurrection" as a Doctrine of 'Rebirth', it opens the door to any number of other demonic doctrines...

All of which are at the theological foundations of the motivation for violence, bloodshed and genocide between and among Jews, Christians and Muslims.

People who have never really thought these things out are shocked when I tell them that the "time of trouble" and the horrors of Armageddon are going to arise over the Satanic perversion of this ONE Doctrine.

You won't believe the words that I say.

So you will have to see with your own eyes the horrors of the "time of trouble", a Vision of which I received in January, 1975.

It makes no difference to you that I have received the Vision of the "Son of man" and the Revelation of the "resurrection" and that it is on the basis of those Revelations that I am making the statements I am making.

You don't care if someone else has received these Revelations.

You have your own ideas; and, just like the IDIOT theologians, you think your 'precious' ideas are equivalent to ANY Revelation.

It makes no difference to you that I have been doing this for almost 37 years.

It makes no difference to you that the name on my birth certificate is Michael, as is Prophesied in the 12th chapter of the Book of Daniel, but that I was not even aware of any Prophecy about a Michael until a year and a half after I had received the Vision of the "time of trouble".

The words that I write are drenched in blood from more lives than I can even count...

And they are put out on the Internet where they have to compete with "their name is legion" ideas of IDIOTS.

Kierkegaard referred to it as being "trampled to death by ducks".

Nietzsche referred to the "last man that hops on the earth...whose race is an ineradicable as the flea-beetle."

So, writing on the Internet is something like being trampled to death by flea-beetles.

Michael
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1190661
Australia
03/15/2013 04:11 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
...


Congratulations! You just proved all your own points!

You reasoned that your reasoning, even defending the unGODly, is GODly.

Your simple belief, and simple it is, is that the Bible is GOD's word, and that an oppressor of women like Paul, is correct. Afterall men in the Bible put "GOD said" in front of things - so it must be true, he must have said it - men never lie! 1rof1

Paul's writings, on women, haven't been distorted, you are distorting his greatness, by ignoring what Paul is alleged to have actually said.

Paul, through his writings, has oppressed 50% of the population (women), for nearly 2000 years.

Women are NOT allowed to teach, and should be silent referring only to their husbands. Why have you missed such obvious flaws in his teachings? Do you want women to be silent?

Show me where Jesus taught on women what Paul taught on that same topic!

JESUS said, Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Paul amazingly pretends that everything he quotes is a commandment from the Lord

1 Corinthians 14:37 "If any seem to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him know the things that I write to you, that they are the commandments of the Lord".

How come Jesus didn't oppress women like Paul did?

If you truly believe what Paul wrote is "from GOD" and what he writes are "Commandments" why aren't you shaving women's uncovered heads in Church?

Why aren't you forcing women to be silent?

Why aren't you oppressing women?

Do you really love and follow GOD when you continually and knowingly break GOD's commandments on women delivered through Paul?

Do women in your Church cover their heads?

Do you see "the log" in your own eye?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


29Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. 32The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. 33For God is not a God of disorder but of peaceóas in all the congregations of the Lordís people.

34Womenf should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

Again, you are so obsessed with what churches have done that you are letting MANS DOCTRINES interfere with what the Holy Spirit through Paul is STATING. I've even bolded it for you. The SPIRIT OF THE PROPHET is to be in subjection TO THE PROPHET.

This goes back to Adam and eve. Think about your MIND.

So, please, carry on debating the doctrine of men, for when we do that, we cannot learn through His Spirit .
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36238525


Well you believe in the spirit through Paul... I choose to believe in the spirit of GOD. I don't need an intermediary but you obviously do.

I don't need Paul to corrupt it. Paul is just a man.

My mind is fine.. think about yours!

Your post makes no sense.. If you believe thart the Holy Spirit is telling people to oppress women through Paul... YOU are wrong.

I'm not obsessed with anything.

I do however, think that believers like you, diminish GOD's intellect down to your own.

Why do you believe your GOD is so unintelligent?

GOD doesn't oppress anyone!

tantrum
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


You didn't hear one word that was written because of your presuppositions, so much so that you cannot even hear what the Holy Spirit is teaching.

The SPIRIT OF THE PROPHET is subject to THE PROPHET.
= WOMAN is to be subject to THE MAN

ADAM LISTENED TO EVE
= THE MAN listened to HIS OWN SPIRIT
= THE MAN listened to THE WOMAN

Adam's will prevailed.
Read Isaiah 14
I WILL
I WILL
I WILL
I WILL
I WILL

JESUS:
HIS WILL
HIS WILL
HIS WILL

Look at your words and tell me, did I say anything of what you just wrote? No. You categorically dismissed me like you did Paul's writing above BECAUSE OF WHAT'S ALREADY OCCUPYING YOUR MIND. Everything that you ASSUMED that I said, I DIDN'T SAY.
Every one of your assumptions is BLOCKING what the Holy Spirit is trying to teach you.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36238525


So it is my fault that you make no sense.

I only have so much time in the day to debate fools. Paul's teaching on women are simply unGODly!

Is GOD omniscient? YES!

SO GOD knows all things past, present and future. He knows what you have done, are doing, and will do!

The GOD knew man would fail even before Satan tempted Adam and Eve.

You undermine a loving omniscient GOD and make GOD sound deceiptful & sly by believing this rubbish!

1 Timothy 2:13-14 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.Ē


PAUL LIES TO JUSTIFY HIS OPPRESSION OF WOMEN!

I defend GOD against people who undermine GOD's greatness like you and other believers.

The Adam and Eve story is kindergarten stuff.

Try not to make GOD sound so unintelligent!

tantrum
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 31263808
United States
03/15/2013 04:31 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
<span onmouseover="_tipon(this)" onmouseout="_tipoff()"><span class="google-src-text" style="direction: ltr; text-align: left"> No. ¿Cómo podía incluso ser un "apóstol", cuando él no era uno de los primeros 12, o el sustituto de Judas?</span>
No. How could he even be an "apostle" when he was not one of the original 12, or the replacement for Judas?</span> <span onmouseover="_tipon(this)" onmouseout="_tipoff()"><span class="google-src-text" style="direction: ltr; text-align: left">[/ Quote] El no reemplazar a Judas.</span>
 Quoting: SoldierofYah
He did not replace Judas.</span> <span onmouseover="_tipon(this)" onmouseout="_tipoff()"><span class="google-src-text" style="direction: ltr; text-align: left">Matthias hizo.</span> Matthias did.</span> <span onmouseover="_tipon(this)" onmouseout="_tipoff()"><span class="google-src-text" style="direction: ltr; text-align: left">Era Pablo un apóstol falso.</span> Was Paul a false apostle.</span> <span onmouseover="_tipon(this)" onmouseout="_tipoff()"><span class="google-src-text" style="direction: ltr; text-align: left">Es evidente que Cristo no lo creía.</span> Evidently Christ didn't think so.</span> <span onmouseover="_tipon(this)" onmouseout="_tipoff()"><span class="google-src-text" style="direction: ltr; text-align: left">[/ Quote]</span>
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 890566
</span>

Paul did not begin proselytizing until after Jesus' death. He never met him. We have only Paul's word for it that Jesus appeared to him on the road to Tarsus.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1190661
Australia
03/15/2013 05:04 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
Getting a bit out there in crazy land there Michael..
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


Then you are orders of magnitude stupider than I thought you were.

The Egyptian 'god of the dead' doctrine of the physical raising of a dead body from the grave is common to Judaism, Christianity and Islam. And, because that Satanic doctrine substitutes for the Truth about the Doctrine of "resurrection" as a Doctrine of 'Rebirth', it opens the door to any number of other demonic doctrines...

All of which are at the theological foundations of the motivation for violence, bloodshed and genocide between and among Jews, Christians and Muslims.

People who have never really thought these things out are shocked when I tell them that the "time of trouble" and the horrors of Armageddon are going to arise over the Satanic perversion of this ONE Doctrine.

You won't believe the words that I say.

So you will have to see with your own eyes the horrors of the "time of trouble", a Vision of which I received in January, 1975.

It makes no difference to you that I have received the Vision of the "Son of man" and the Revelation of the "resurrection" and that it is on the basis of those Revelations that I am making the statements I am making.

You don't care if someone else has received these Revelations.

You have your own ideas; and, just like the IDIOT theologians, you think your 'precious' ideas are equivalent to ANY Revelation.

It makes no difference to you that I have been doing this for almost 37 years.

It makes no difference to you that the name on my birth certificate is Michael, as is Prophesied in the 12th chapter of the Book of Daniel, but that I was not even aware of any Prophecy about a Michael until a year and a half after I had received the Vision of the "time of trouble".

The words that I write are drenched in blood from more lives than I can even count...

And they are put out on the Internet where they have to compete with "their name is legion" ideas of IDIOTS.

Kierkegaard referred to it as being "trampled to death by ducks".

Nietzsche referred to the "last man that hops on the earth...whose race is an ineradicable as the flea-beetle."

So, writing on the Internet is something like being trampled to death by flea-beetles.

Michael
 Quoting: 4Q529


Michael,

I agree with you on most that you write. The religions have misused GOD's name and committed atrocities since time in memorium.

I know about the "Book of the Dead" and it's implications to the religions.

But when you typed this I wasn't interested in the harshness of how it sounds.

Christianity must be DESTROYED, before it results in the near-annihilation of human civilization.

Not talking about killing anyone here.
 Quoting: 4Q529


Even though you put this in "Not talking about killing anyone here." you start to sound a bit like MOSES here.

I hate the way MOSES undermines GOD's love by pretending that GOD ordered all the atrocities and oppression.

It is simply wrong!

I also beat my head against the internet wall trying to understand how people believe what they do about GOD. Just because it appears in a dusty old book they believe it to be true.

Even though I point out Paul's incredible misuse of Jesus to impose his own Pharisee teachings on women - believers just don't get it!

Please do not think I judge you on your revelations given to you by "The Son of Man". I am always suspect because so many claim to hear GOD/JESUS on here and yet they don't appear to know anything other than Bible Babble.

Also Jesus speaks about this very openly when he was on Earth.

LOOK! People in the following passages claim to have seen/heard GOD.

Genesis 17:1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

AND

Genesis 18:1 And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;

AND

Exodus 6:2-3 And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD:

And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.


AND

Exodus 24:9-11 Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:
And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.
And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.


AND

Numbers 12:6-8 And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the LORD will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.
My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house.

With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the LORD shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?


AND Paul believed it,

Acts 7:2 And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran,


YET THE BIBLE SAYS GOD SAID

Exodus 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall NO MAN SEE ME, and live.

AND THE BIBLE SAYS JESUS SAID

John 1:18 NO MAN HAS SEEN GOD AT ANY TIME, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

AND

John 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

AND

John 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

AND EVEN PAUL WROTE

1 Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; WHOM NO MAN HATH SEEN, NOR CAN SEE: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Yet he also wrote the exact opposite

1 Corinthians 9:1 Am I am not an apostle? am I not free? have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? are not ye my work in the Lord?

AND

1 Corinthians 15:8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.

SO whilst I keep an open mind on these things... I have to listen to what Jesus taught above the rest.

I would never dismiss your experiences as easily as others do here. I am listening.

My methodology is different to yours. I show them Chapter and Verse where they are mistaken. It's up to them whether they believe JESUS or not. They can't say they weren't told though.

Remember! When you are typing here... Some people will debate you... Others will read and dismiss you... Others will read and consider you ... Others will read and actually listen.

Of course there are also the others who will call you Satan or lead by Satan, which of course is laughable.

I'm quite happy to debate anyone when I have the time.

Perhaps that is why the Egyptians celebrated the dung beatle. All this dung people carry around with them believing it is fact is amazing!...

grinning
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1190661
Australia
03/17/2013 05:14 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
Where did everyone go?

I was enjoying the discussion and getting to quote Bible passages again.

See I actually read the Bible, with an analytical mind, hoping that what I was taught when I was younger is the truth.

GOD gave me this analytical and inquiring mind, so I use the gift.

But alas, I keep coming up against the same old hurdles.

The Bible is so seriously flawed that I just can't believe people have missed all the things, others and myself have shown in this thread.

Belief, Faith & Indoctrination seem to weaken a person's comprehension skills when I would have hoped it heightened them. I guess that is proof that "belief & faith" are the kindergarten levels of spirituality.

I have made this point on other threads.

Didn't some ancient tribes throw young women into volcanoes to appease the volcano GODs?

Did they have faith? Did they have belief it would work?

Were they correct? NO!

So faith and belief are pretty poor guides, aren't they?

With all the horrors carried out in the name of religion over the centuries, and some even proven by the Bible, how can anyone say it is GOD's word.

I'm continually amazed!

hf
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1190661
Australia
03/17/2013 08:41 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
bump
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 36321485
United Kingdom
03/17/2013 09:07 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
Where did everyone go?

I was enjoying the discussion and getting to quote Bible passages again.

See I actually read the Bible, with an analytical mind, hoping that what I was taught when I was younger is the truth.

GOD gave me this analytical and inquiring mind, so I use the gift.

But alas, I keep coming up against the same old hurdles.

The Bible is so seriously flawed that I just can't believe people have missed all the things, others and myself have shown in this thread.

Belief, Faith & Indoctrination seem to weaken a person's comprehension skills when I would have hoped it heightened them. I guess that is proof that "belief & faith" are the kindergarten levels of spirituality.

I have made this point on other threads.

Didn't some ancient tribes throw young women into volcanoes to appease the volcano GODs?

Did they have faith? Did they have belief it would work?

Were they correct? NO!

So faith and belief are pretty poor guides, aren't they?

With all the horrors carried out in the name of religion over the centuries, and some even proven by the Bible, how can anyone say it is GOD's word.

I'm continually amazed!

hf
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


Faith and belief in Jesus Christ is granted by your Creator.
And in a world of lying signs and wonders that are directly for those who are not blessed to believe in Him without seeing, your words couldn't be farther from the truth.
You have been indoctrinated to only believe in things that you can experience. Guess who those lying signs and wonders are meant for?

Those that have faith because of seeing - the millions of tares crowding the apostate churches today - believe not because God granted them faith but believe because of the supposed miracles and visions through the receipt of the unholy spirit.

Jesus did tell us all - blessed are those who believe without seeing

May you come to understand that your "analytical mind" was indoctrinated into you so that you will do only one thing: believe the lying signs and wonders coming directly from the very men who indoctrinated you to solely rely on "evidence" -THEIRS.
danielbarzohar

User ID: 25291494
United States
03/17/2013 09:12 AM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
Yahshua did not come to start a new religion. Paul did. Yahshua came to call the lost sheep of Israel back to God's covenant and His Torah. Paul himself admitted that the church in Ephesus (2 Timothy 1:15) abandoned him and this same church is commended by Yashua in the book of Revelation (Rev 2:2) as testing those who say they are apostles but are not. Paul even boasted about disobeying God by going to Jerusalem when he claimed the Lord had told him not to. Modern Christianity is Pauline Christianity and is not what Yashua preached. Yashua was a pharasaic rabbi that taught both written and oral torah as orthodox Jews do to this day. I choose to follow Yashua, not Paul.

[link to danielbarzohar.blogspot.com]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1190661
Australia
03/17/2013 09:52 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
Where did everyone go?

I was enjoying the discussion and getting to quote Bible passages again.

See I actually read the Bible, with an analytical mind, hoping that what I was taught when I was younger is the truth.

GOD gave me this analytical and inquiring mind, so I use the gift.

But alas, I keep coming up against the same old hurdles.

The Bible is so seriously flawed that I just can't believe people have missed all the things, others and myself have shown in this thread.

Belief, Faith & Indoctrination seem to weaken a person's comprehension skills when I would have hoped it heightened them. I guess that is proof that "belief & faith" are the kindergarten levels of spirituality.

I have made this point on other threads.

Didn't some ancient tribes throw young women into volcanoes to appease the volcano GODs?

Did they have faith? Did they have belief it would work?

Were they correct? NO!

So faith and belief are pretty poor guides, aren't they?

With all the horrors carried out in the name of religion over the centuries, and some even proven by the Bible, how can anyone say it is GOD's word.

I'm continually amazed!

hf
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1190661


Faith and belief in Jesus Christ is granted by your Creator.
And in a world of lying signs and wonders that are directly for those who are not blessed to believe in Him without seeing, your words couldn't be farther from the truth.
You have been indoctrinated to only believe in things that you can experience. Guess who those lying signs and wonders are meant for?

Those that have faith because of seeing - the millions of tares crowding the apostate churches today - believe not because God granted them faith but believe because of the supposed miracles and visions through the receipt of the unholy spirit.

Jesus did tell us all - blessed are those who believe without seeing

May you come to understand that your "analytical mind" was indoctrinated into you so that you will do only one thing: believe the lying signs and wonders coming directly from the very men who indoctrinated you to solely rely on "evidence" -THEIRS.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 36321485


WOW! That sounds like Bible Babble galore. Do you believe the Bible to be GOD's word?

There is a difference between "seeing" and "comprehending". You my still be blessed without seeing so Jesus is right...

Why would you question my spirituality based on your meagre insights? Are you defending the Bible?

I am not indoctrinated in any way, I am free of it. Delightfully free!

I defend GOD against believers, who in their belief, in the Bible undermine the very essence of GOD.

I don't solely rely on evidence. With that statement you prove my point on your lack of comprehension skills. re=read some of my posts!

So tell me is the Bible GOD's word?

ohyeah





GLP